Should I be rebaptised?

[Pearl]

Thank you Pearl.

According to your statement the true mark of a Christian is someone that:

Believes in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit
Repents of their sins
Seek God's forgiveness
Ask Jesus into their life
Have a personal relationship with Him

You believe all others are just "churchgoers".

Scripture says there is more we must do: 1 Corinthians 11:24, John 6:54, Matthew 28:19

Mary

Yes Mary, that is what I know to be the truth along with most other born again Christians. My re-birth does not depend on my partaking of the bread and wine. My re-birth depends on my relationship with Jesus. And because I am now part of his true Church I am entitled to partake of the bread and wine which is meant for those who belong to Him. Without that re-birth we don't.

 

[farouk]

Yes Mary, that is what I know to be the truth along with most other born again Christians. My re-birth does not depend on my partaking of the bread and wine. My re-birth depends on my relationship with Jesus. And because I am now part of his true Church I am entitled to partake of the bread and wine which is meat for those who belong to Him. Without that re-birth we don't.

This is indeed what Acts 2 says; those who gladly received the Gospel message continued in various activities that resulted from their faith, including the Lord's Supper.

 

[Stranger]

WRONG.

Matt. 3:13-17
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the WATER. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the SPIRIT of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

THIS is the "Water and Spirit" that Jesus is talking about in John 3:5 - the Water and Spirit of BAPTISM.

As for MY Baptism - I have explained it to you ad nauseam - and EVERY time you want to veer attention away from your losing argument - you ask me about it yet again. I'm not playing your games anymore. You know ALL about my Baptism.

As for Peter and Cornelius - here's a little hermeneutical advice for you:
NEVER base your doctrines on an exception. The few exceptions in the NT such as the Baptism of Cornelius and his entire household were to further the Gospel message.

NOWHERE does it speak of ANY of the 3000 or so who were Baptized at Pentecost being indwelt with the Holy Spirit PRIOR to Baptism. In fact - Peter gives the chronological order explicitly:
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. AND you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

He doesn't say, "NOW that you are filled with the Holy Spirit - it's time to be Baptized."

Finally - as to the water - I have already explained to you that the water is just water. There is nothing "miraculous" or "magical" about the water.
It is simply the tangible means of the conferring of the Holy Spirit.

The NT ALSO talks about conferring the Holy Spirit on people by the laying of hands. Is there something "supernatural" or "magical" about hands?? NO.
It is simply the MEANS by which God has prescribed His healing.

Read James 5:14 about praying over the sick. It says to "anoint" them with oil. Is there something "supernatural" or "magical" about the oil?? NO.
It is simply the MEANS by which God had prescribed His healing.

YOUR problem is disobedience.
Good luck with that . . .

No. You confuse three different baptism. The baptism of John. The baptism of Christ. The believers baptism. You say not to use an 'exception' yet you choose the greatest exception of all, the baptism of Christ. Christ was baptized into Johns baptism of repentance but did not need to repent. (Matt. 3:13-14)

Though the Holy Spirit had not yet descended the believers were still believers. They already had faith and were the children of God. Once the Holy Spirit has come at Pentecost then upon believing in Christ they receive the Holy Spirit. They are then water baptized with the believers baptism. This period of time at Pentecost is unique as it contains believers who were alive under the Old Covenant and alive then under the New Covenant.

(Acts 2:38) is addressed specifically to Israel. (Acts 2:22,36) The call is the same to 'Repent and be baptized' which is the same as the gospel of the Kingdom. (Matt. 3:2) (Matt. 4:17) But Israel did not repent. She rejected Christ. Now many ask Peter what will we do now? To which he replied, 'Repent and be baptized' only now it would be in the name of the Lord Jesus. For the promise was to Israel and her descendants, (Acts 2:39). This is the promise I showed you in (Ez. 36:25-27) But even here, the idea of 'repenting' already shows a belief on the one repentings part.

Yes, water is just water. But water baptism does play a role as showed you. (1 Peter 3:20-21). It is not that which brings one who is lost to a justified state. Faith, belief, alone does that, as I also showed you in post # (914). Water baptism brings one a good conscience before God.

Your problem is you are using water as that which God implements to save a lost soul. And it is not water but faith that God implements to save the lost soul. Once He sees the faith, then one is born-again. Just because one is baptized in water does not make him born-again. Thus no infant is every born-again, as he has not the faith. Thus there are many who are 'water baptized' who are not believers.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. You confuse three different baptism. The baptism of John. The baptism of Christ. The believers baptism. You say not to use an 'exception' yet you choose the greatest exception of all, the baptism of Christ. Christ was baptized into Johns baptism of repentance but did not need to repent. (Matt. 3:13-14)

Though the Holy Spirit had not yet descended the believers were still believers. They already had faith and were the children of God. Once the Holy Spirit has come at Pentecost then upon believing in Christ they receive the Holy Spirit. They are then water baptized with the believers baptism. This period of time at Pentecost is unique as it contains believers who were alive under the Old Covenant and alive then under the New Covenant.

(Acts 2:38) is addressed specifically to Israel. (Acts 2:22,36) The call is the same to 'Repent and be baptized' which is the same as the gospel of the Kingdom. (Matt. 3:2) (Matt. 4:17) But Israel did not repent. She rejected Christ. Now many ask Peter what will we do now? To which he replied, 'Repent and be baptized' only now it would be in the name of the Lord Jesus. For the promise was to Israel and her descendants, (Acts 2:39). This is the promise I showed you in (Ez. 36:25-27) But even here, the idea of 'repenting' already shows a belief on the one repentings part.

Yes, water is just water. But water baptism does play a role as showed you. (1 Peter 3:20-21). It is not that which brings one who is lost to a justified state. Faith, belief, alone does that, as I also showed you in post # (914). Water baptism brings one a good conscience before God.

Your problem is you are using water as that which God implements to save a lost soul. And it is not water but faith that God implements to save the lost soul. Once He sees the faith, then one is born-again. Just because one is baptized in water does not make him born-again. Thus no infant is every born-again, as he has not the faith. Thus there are many who are 'water baptized' who are not believers.

Stranger

First of all - YOU showed med nothing.
I am the one who has been arguing the necessity of Baptism all along - NOT you. I'm also the one who pointed to the prophecy in Ezekiel 36:25-27 - NOT you.

Secondly - you LIE when you claim that I say it is the WATER that saves us. I never said this - and. in fact I said that it was just water - just the MEANS. I repeatedly stated this in post #917, comparing it to the anointing with oil from James 5:14 and laying on of hands.

As to your last statement in RED - there are MANY who have been born again in the Spirit and no longer believer and have LOST their way. The Bible is CLEAR about that (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

 

[Marymog]

Yes Mary, that is what I know to be the truth along with most other born again Christians. My re-birth does not depend on my partaking of the bread and wine. My re-birth depends on my relationship with Jesus. And because I am now part of his true Church I am entitled to partake of the bread and wine which is meant for those who belong to Him. Without that re-birth we don't.

Thank you.

You left me with the impression that the 5 aforementioned things are the only things one needs to be considered a Christian. With your additional statement what I believe you are saying is that those 5 criteria must be met FIRST then followed by participation in baptism and the partaking of communion (bread/wine) for one to be considered a true Christian instead of just a "churchgoer".


So that is where I am confused about your statement. To me you made it sound like the "churchgoers" DIDN'T meet your five criteria even though they are participating in baptism/communion.

If a person is participating in baptism/communion that shows me that they are a true Christian and have already met your 5 criteria.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Some Roman Catholics are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. Some Methodists are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. Some Anglicans are Christians some are not; they are just churchgoers. They may all believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but without a personal relationship with Him that's all they are - churchgoers. You have to ask Jesus into your life to become a Christian. Repent of your sins, seek God's forgiveness and ask Jesus into your life. That's when re-birth occurs.

Hi,

How does one KNOW they have a "personal relationship" with Him? I have searched Scripture and can't seem to find what criteria I must meet to fulfill "personal relationship with Him".

Mary

 

[Pearl]

As I said previously, you have to ask Jesus into your life to become a Christian. Repent of your sins, seek God's forgiveness and ask Jesus into your life. That's when re-birth occurs. Once you've done that, even if you never get baptised or partake of the bread and wine, you are a Christian.

It is the relationship with Jesus that makes the changes in you, that bring you into the true Church as a Christian. And you're right Mary, not all churchgoers meet those criteria and even though they have received a form of baptism as a baby or partake weekly of the bread and wine they are still not part of the true Church and still not Christians.

To me it is sad when people insist in seeing things their own way and miss that life-giving truth. Jesus changes lives, Jesus opens peoples' eyes, Jesus brings people out of darkness into the light, Jesus transforms people by the renewing of their minds and makes them a new creation without sin in the eyes of God. That is why we need him, that is why it is vital to pray and ask him to show you the truth. Ask him to show you whether the things I have said to you are indeed true; stop being too proud Mary and just ask him to come into your life.

As I've said before I was a churchgoer most of my life; I received a form of baptism as a ten week old infant and confirmation when I was eleven which allowed me in the eyes of the church to partake of the bread and wine. But none of those things made me a Christian, none of them allowed me to part of the true Church.

No matter how religious you are it isn't until you take that step towards Jesus and ask him in that you become a Christian. You can call yourself a Christian and you can go to confession or mass or morning service or communion but none of those things make you a Christian.

I don't know how to say it any plainer and people have told me that you won't listen but that's completely up to you Mary, but I hope you will put a relationship with Jesus first in your life rather than the church which will only give you religion.

 

[farouk]

Repent of your sins, seek God's forgiveness and ask Jesus into your life. That's when re-birth occurs.

Faith is indeed the key. Hebrews 11 is an eloquent reminder of this also.

 

[Pearl]

Hi,

How does one KNOW they have a "personal relationship" with Him? I have searched Scripture and can't seem to find what criteria I must meet to fulfill "personal relationship with Him".

Mary

Oh Mary, just ask Him. I came to him without doing any research, without reading any scriptures, without hearing what the church had to say about it; I just came to Him because I knew I needed him in my life to set me free from sin. I really hope you find peace.

 

[Pearl]

Deuteronomy 30:19
“Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life.

 

[farouk]

Deuteronomy 30:19
“Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life.

Another good verse.

I like what the 17th century preacher Richard Baxter said. "I preached as never sure to preach again, and as a dying man to dying men".

 

[Pearl]

@Marymog
Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

 

[Deborah_]

Hi,

How does one KNOW they have a "personal relationship" with Him? I have searched Scripture and can't seem to find what criteria I must meet to fulfill "personal relationship with Him".

Mary

Hi Mary.
There are no 'criteria' to meet. There is no special prayer that one has to say or thing that one has to do. A lot of people who grew up in Christian families really don't remember how they became a Christian. As far as they are concerned, they have 'always' known Jesus.

A 'personal relationship with Jesus' is a bit of a cliche now, but it does describe what the Christian life feels like. Even if you have never used the phrase before, even if it sounds odd to you, if somebody asked you, "Do you know Jesus?" (as opposed to just knowing about Jesus) would you say "Yes"? Or is your religion just 'ticking the right boxes' (e.g. going to a certain number of church services, saying prayers purely out of habit and/or duty).

One of the problems with the Protestant/Catholic divide is that we often use different terms to describe the same experience. If you care enough about your faith to talk about it on the Internet, then you probably do have a personal relationship with Jesus.

 

[Marymog]

Oh Mary, just ask Him. I came to him without doing any research, without reading any scriptures, without hearing what the church had to say about it; I just came to Him because I knew I needed him in my life to set me free from sin. I really hope you find peace.

Thank you Pearl.

I thought you found something in Scripture that I couldn't find that supported your belief. I will stop looking.....

I wonder what happens to a persons soul who believes they have met your five criteria and THINK they have a personal relationship with Him and they really don't have that relationship.

Since there is no Scriptural support to gauge what it means to have a "personal relationship with Him" I guess we will never really know. We know what happens if you don't believe, repent or seek forgiveness we know what happens to the soul.

Very much at peace.....Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

My baptism.

Hi Pearl -
I was asking sincerely. Can you answer my question from post #913?

I asked:
Quick question - and please don't take this the wrong way because I certainly don't mean any insult by it, but - where do you suppose the method of leaning the person backward in the water came from?

I only ask because it appears as though this is the method that was used at YOUR Baptism.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Marymog]

@Marymog
Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better

 

[Marymog]

Hi Mary.
There are no 'criteria' to meet. There is no special prayer that one has to say or thing that one has to do. A lot of people who grew up in Christian families really don't remember how they became a Christian. As far as they are concerned, they have 'always' known Jesus.

A 'personal relationship with Jesus' is a bit of a cliche now, but it does describe what the Christian life feels like. Even if you have never used the phrase before, even if it sounds odd to you, if somebody asked you, "Do you know Jesus?" (as opposed to just knowing about Jesus) would you say "Yes"? Or is your religion just 'ticking the right boxes' (e.g. going to a certain number of church services, saying prayers purely out of habit and/or duty).

One of the problems with the Protestant/Catholic divide is that we often use different terms to describe the same experience. If you care enough about your faith to talk about it on the Internet, then you probably do have a personal relationship with Jesus.

I will forward this to @Pearl since she (not me) is the one who articulated that one needs to have a personal relationship with Him to be a true Christian.

Thank you....Mary

 

[Marymog]

View attachment 6111

My baptism.

My goodness....Just by looking at the clothing it reminds me of the late 80's early 90's? Am I right???

 

[Pearl]

Mary, you may already have said yes and like Deborah said just be using different words. But this is a simple explanation.

 

[Pearl]

My goodness....Just by looking at the clothing it reminds me of the late 80's early 90's? Am I right???

Ha, it was May 1984 and my clothes were not fashionable because my husband had been out of work for three years and they were probably jumble sale buys. We were baptised together which was lovely. Better than our wedding day in many respects. And a few years ago we got to baptise a friend which was also lovely.