SHOULD I BE WATER BAPTIZED?

[Doug]

To answer the question as to whether or not the church in this dispensation, the body of Christ, has to be water baptized, we need to first look at the requirements of the law.

God made covenant with Israel. Israel's obligation was to keep the covenant.

[Exo 19:5 KJV] 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:

To keep the covenant, Israel had to obey all that was in the covenant.

[Exo 24:7 KJV] 7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.

If Israel kept the covenant, God promised to make of them a kingdom of priests.

[Exo 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Washings were commanded for the priests.

[Exo 29:4 KJV] 4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.

[Lev 8:5-6 KJV] 5 And Moses said unto the congregation, This [is] the thing which the LORD commanded to be done. 6 And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.

[Num 8:6-7 KJV] 6 Take the Levites from among the children of Israel, and cleanse them. 7 And thus shalt thou do unto them, to cleanse them: Sprinkle water of purifying upon them, and let them shave all their flesh, and let them wash their clothes, and [so] make themselves clean.

[Exo 30:17-21 KJV] 17 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 18 Thou shalt also make a laver [of] brass, and his foot [also of] brass, to wash [withal]: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein. 19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat: 20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD: 21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, [even] to him and to his seed throughout their generations.

Washings were commanded for the people as well.

[Num 19:13 KJV] 13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness [is] yet upon him.

[Exo 19:10 KJV] 10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,

[Lev 11:25 KJV] 25 And whosoever beareth [ought] of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

John came unto Israel. John preached that Israel confess their sins as a nation.

[Mat 3:5-6 KJV] 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

John baptized Israel for the remission of sins.

[Mar 1:4 KJV] 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

[Luk 3:3 KJV] 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

John came to identify Jesus as Israel's Messiah.

[Jhn 1:31 KJV] 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

Peter came preaching that Israel should repent of putting their Messiah to death. Peter did not preach that Jesus died for their sins and rose for their justification. Peter preached water baptism for their forgiveness.

[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Gentiles believed in the name of Jesus and were baptized and added to the church of God, the believing remnant of Israel.

[Act 10:43, 48 KJV] 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. ... 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Even after his resurrection, Jesus commanded baptism for Israel to be saved to enter the prophetic kingdom on earth.

[Mar 16:16 KJV] 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

In the kingdom on earth, Israel will baptize the nations and teach them to observe all that Jesus commanded them, which included the law (Matthew 19:17}.

[Mat 28:19-20 KJV] 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

God will cleanse Israel with water to enter the kingdom on earth.

[Eze 36:25 KJV] 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

To Paul it was revealed by Christ, that our baptism is not by water, but by the Spirit.

[1Co 12:13 KJV] 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

We are baptized into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

[Rom 6:3-5 KJV] 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

Paul has the commandments and the instructions for the church today, the body of Christ, and nowhere commands water baptism.

[Heb 9:8-10 KJV] 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

The water washings were imposed on Israel until Christ came. They were only a figure that have been realized in Christ by his washing (Ephesians 5:26 Titus 3:5).

If you think you have to obey water baptism then you have to do all of the law (Galatians 5:3). If you think you have to be water baptized, you mistakenly think you are Israel.

 

[Verily]

Hows that work with Simon the Canaanite, he was baptized I would think among the apostles unless he was considered an Israelite?

 

[Verily]

Jesus

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Versus the Judiazers

Acts 15:2 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Whereas Paul says,

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

And says again

Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

He does NOT say,

For I testify again to every man that is baptized that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

The law came by Moses and grace and truth by Jesus Christ, who was the one who said,

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Doug]

Hows that work with Simon the Canaanite, he was baptized I would think among the apostles unless he was considered an Israelite?

what verse are you talking about

 

[Verily]

what verse are you talking about

Mark 3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

Which includes (down further)

Mark 3:18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite, (Mat 10:4 also)

I brought him up because of what you said about being baptized

"If you think you have to be water baptized, you mistakenly think you are Israel."

Now, it does not say whether Simon the Canaanite was baptized but it does speak of the disciples baptizing others. How would that work with one shown as a Canaanite?

 

[Doug]

Mark 3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

Which includes (down further)

Mark 3:18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite, (Mat 10:4 also)

I brought him up because of what you said about being baptized

"If you think you have to be water baptized, you mistakenly think you are Israel."

Now, it does not say whether Simon the Canaanite was baptized but it does speak of the disciples baptizing others. How would that work with one shown as a Canaanite?

There is nothing in scripture about why he is called a Canaanite but it maybe he was of Galilee and called a zealot and Canaanite for political views

 

[Verily]

There is nothing in scripture about why he is called a Canaanite but it maybe he was of Galilee and called a zealot and Canaanite for political views

I do understand that, and it could possibly be that this disciple was of Cana of Galilee

Seeing it says

John 2:1 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Canaanite itself means "zealous" as is shown in the OT, for example here

Gen 12:6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite H3669 was then in the land.

1. Canaanite = see Cana "zealous"
   adjective
   1. descendant of inhabitant of Canaan
      noun
   2. descendant or inhabitant of Canaan
   3. a merchant, trader

But on the otherhand, if he was called a Canaanite for some political view I can't find one that actually agrees so as to lump him under that name accordingly.

I ran a search and it come up

The Canaanite political views are complex and varied, as the term "Canaanite" referred to a diverse group of people rather than a single unified ethnic or political entity.

But here is another reason I ask, it says here this

Zech 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

How would we know whether he is speaking of those according to genealogy (as Canaanites) rather than of those according to some underlying meaning of the actual word Canaanite (since the beginning) or some diverse (politically ununified party)?

See what I mean?

 

[Gary Mac]

To answer the question as to whether or not the church in this dispensation, the body of Christ, has to be water baptized, we need to first look at the requirements of the law.

God made covenant with Israel. Israel's obligation was to keep the covenant.

[Exo 19:5 KJV] 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:

To keep the covenant, Israel had to obey all that was in the covenant.

[Exo 24:7 KJV] 7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.

If Israel kept the covenant, God promised to make of them a kingdom of priests.

[Exo 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Washings were commanded for the priests.

[Exo 29:4 KJV] 4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.

[Lev 8:5-6 KJV] 5 And Moses said unto the congregation, This [is] the thing which the LORD commanded to be done. 6 And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.

[Num 8:6-7 KJV] 6 Take the Levites from among the children of Israel, and cleanse them. 7 And thus shalt thou do unto them, to cleanse them: Sprinkle water of purifying upon them, and let them shave all their flesh, and let them wash their clothes, and [so] make themselves clean.

[Exo 30:17-21 KJV] 17 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 18 Thou shalt also make a laver [of] brass, and his foot [also of] brass, to wash [withal]: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein. 19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat: 20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD: 21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, [even] to him and to his seed throughout their generations.

Washings were commanded for the people as well.

[Num 19:13 KJV] 13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness [is] yet upon him.

[Exo 19:10 KJV] 10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,

[Lev 11:25 KJV] 25 And whosoever beareth [ought] of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

John came unto Israel. John preached that Israel confess their sins as a nation.

[Mat 3:5-6 KJV] 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

John baptized Israel for the remission of sins.

[Mar 1:4 KJV] 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

[Luk 3:3 KJV] 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

John came to identify Jesus as Israel's Messiah.

[Jhn 1:31 KJV] 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

Peter came preaching that Israel should repent of putting their Messiah to death. Peter did not preach that Jesus died for their sins and rose for their justification. Peter preached water baptism for their forgiveness.

[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Gentiles believed in the name of Jesus and were baptized and added to the church of God, the believing remnant of Israel.

[Act 10:43, 48 KJV] 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. ... 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Even after his resurrection, Jesus commanded baptism for Israel to be saved to enter the prophetic kingdom on earth.

[Mar 16:16 KJV] 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

In the kingdom on earth, Israel will baptize the nations and teach them to observe all that Jesus commanded them, which included the law (Matthew 19:17}.

[Mat 28:19-20 KJV] 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

God will cleanse Israel with water to enter the kingdom on earth.

[Eze 36:25 KJV] 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

To Paul it was revealed by Christ, that our baptism is not by water, but by the Spirit.

[1Co 12:13 KJV] 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

We are baptized into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

[Rom 6:3-5 KJV] 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

Paul has the commandments and the instructions for the church today, the body of Christ, and nowhere commands water baptism.

[Heb 9:8-10 KJV] 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

The water washings were imposed on Israel until Christ came. They were only a figure that have been realized in Christ by his washing (Ephesians 5:26 Titus 3:5).

If you think you have to obey water baptism then you have to do all of the law (Galatians 5:3). If you think you have to be water baptized, you mistakenly think you are Israel.

There are two baptisms. One is by man in his rituals for law in water, and one is by God Himself cleansing the mind from all unrighteousness.

If one has been been baptized by God Himself then there is no need for man to try and cleanse you, not even Jesus could cleans his disciples so obvious in his trials and tribulations when not one of them came to be identified with him, not one and the man stood alone. Only after when God Himself came and opened their minds to his knowledge were they cleansed proven in an upper room just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16 and open up who He is and all of His heaven in them did they receive the truth from God Himself and we are not exempt from the same.

Has God came to you as He did in all of these we read of and spend up a new heaven and earth as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16, if not then you only know the rituals for baptisms of man.

 

[DJT_47]

You are not making good sense and your logic can not be understood. Even some of the NT scriptures you quoted are contradictory to the claim you're making. I'm not even sure i understand what it is you're trying to prove. If there is some other way according to scripture to, wash sins and havevthem remitted, become part of the body of Christ, have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, etc, then where are the scriptures? There aren't 2 gospels, there's one, for yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Also mark 16:15 says

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Go ye into ALL THE WORLD.

And how are new congregations started? How were they started once a base congregation was started like at Corinth? Who carried forth the message and baptized from there, Jews? Was baptism not required there and then?

I don't know what you're talking about nor do I think you do either, unless I'm totally missing the point you're attempting to make, whatever that is.

There is one Lord one faith one baptism.

AND ONE GOSPEL MESSAGE

 

[Doug]

Even some of the NT scriptures you quoted are contradictory to the claim you're making.

You would have to show me the scriptures you are talking about

 

[Doug]

I'm not even sure i understand what it is you're trying to prove.

Paul was not sent to baptize
Nowhere are we commanded to be water baptized
Baptisms were for Israel

 

[Doug]

If there is some other way according to scripture to, wash sins and havevthem remitted, become part of the body of Christ, have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, etc, then where are the scriptures?

The scriptures are in Paul's epistles
[1Corinthians 15:1, 3-4 KJV] 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; ... 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Doug]

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

This was not given to us.....this was commanded to the twelve disciples

 

[Behold]

If you think you have to obey water baptism then you have to do all of the law (Galatians 5:3). If you think you have to be water baptized, you mistakenly think you are Israel.

Paul on occasion water baptized Gentile Christian converts., and Paul Himself was water baptized.

If we look at Acts 8:26, we see that Philip water baptized a born again gentile convert.

So, the issue isn't water baptism.........as we should be water baptized, after we are born again......but its not required.
Its similar to taking The Commumion............as we should receive it, but its not requried.
Water Baptism is a beautiful symbolic representation of the "old man dying and the new man being risen into new life in Christ'".
Its also a public confession of Faith in Christ.

The Water Cults, who view Acts 2:38 as "the Gospel"......or Mark 16:15_16............have misunderstood the symbolism of water baptism, and veiw it as Literal.........as "how to have your sins washed away"... and state that there is """no Salvation without water baptism."""
So, this is a cult theology that is known as "baptismal regeneration".
This worst offender is the MaryCult, as their false bible teaches that you are "born again... by water'.
And of course no one is born again by water. We are born again by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Doug]

Paul on occasion water baptized Gentile Christian converts., and Paul Himself was water baptized.

Yes he did and he was glad he didnt baptize more in 1 Corinthians.........................[1Co 1:14, 17 KJV] 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; ... 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Paul was not sent to baptize

Paul also purified himself according to the law...................[Act 21:26 KJV] 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Paul also circumcised Timothy to not offend the Jews..................[Act 16:3 KJV] 3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

 

[pandaflower]

If someone is not water baptized it doesn't mean they lose Salvation.Or are not Saved.

We are washed clean by the blood of the lamb. We are saved the moment we believe.
That's not in dispute. That's God.

We take him at his word or we argue,God didn't mean it.

God knows there are enough people here who take that position far too often on primary Bible issues.

Why?

God knows.

 

[Doug]

If we look at Acts 8:26, we see that Philip water baptized a born again gentile convert.

[Act 8:36-37 KJV] 36 And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The eunuch was not saved or baptized by Paul
Philip was one of the twelve disciples
The eunuch was saved by Israel's gospel believing Jesus is the Son of God

 

[Doug]

So, the issue isn't water baptism.........as we should be water baptized, after we are born again......but its not required.
Its similar to taking The Commumion............as we should receive it, but its not requried.
Water Baptism is a beautiful symbolic representation of the "old man dying and the new man being risen into new life in Christ'".
Its also a public confession of Faith in Christ.

Sorry but baptism as symbolic is a man made tradition not found in scripture

 

[Doug]

The Water Cults, who view Acts 2:38 as "the Gospel"......or Mark 16:15_16............have misunderstood the symbolism of water baptism, and veiw it as Literal

Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:15-16 are literal and those who believe are believing scripture, BUT they arent dispensational.....Acts was for Israel;
Mark was for the twelve disciples

 

[Behold]

If someone is not water baptized it doesn't mean they lose Salvation.Or are not Saved.

The MaryCult teaches that water baptism is necessary for Salvation.

So, If you tell them...

1.) What about a Prisoner in Prison on death row, who trusts in Christ........and there is no water baptism in their prision cell.

2.) What about a person dying of cancer.....in a Hospital bed in the middle of the night and trusts in Jesus just before they die........ and there is no water baptism in their Hospital room.

3.) What about all the Marxist atheist dictatorships, that dont allow Christianity in their country......and yet people in these countries are being saved every day and night.......and they can't be water baptized, because its against the law, its a death sentence.

So, the Catholic justs looks at you....with a stunned sort of glaze over their eyes......and then they say... "well the water washes your sin away". "Water baptism is necessary for salvation".

Its really very sad that so many people belong to this water cult.
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