Should people be called teachers?

[Robbie]

Just know that if the two of you get reprimanded by anyone here it wouldn't be because you're standing up for righteousness... it will be because you treat people poorly and lash out with insults and slanderous remarks...

In the last three sentences you just insinuated that people were heretics, fools, and Judas... that's so weak...

Just learn to share your beliefs without making personal attacks towards others and you'll do fine... and don't think for a second standing up for Jesus has anything to do with calling people fools, or Judas's, or beach bums, or surf wax sniffers, or heretics, or this, or that...

That has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with vicious personal attacks against people because you share different beliefs than them... and that aint cool... so know this... if you get reprimanded it will be because of the poor way you treat people and not because you're being persecuted for righteousness sake... I've known a lot of christians that mistake the two...

 

[jacobtaylor]

Just know that if the two of you get reprimanded by anyone here it wouldn't because you're standing up for righteousness... it will be because you treat people poorly and lash out with insults and slanderous remarks...

In the last three sentences you just insinuated that people were heretics, fools, and Judas... that's so weak...

Just learn to share your beliefs without making personal attacks towards others and you'll do fine... and don't think for a second standing up for Jesus has anything to do with calling people fools, or Judas's, or beach bums, or surf wax sniffers, or heretics, or this, or that...

That has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with vicious personal attacks against people because you share different beliefs than them... and that aint cool... so know this... if you get reprimanded it will be because of the poor way you treat people and not because you're being persecuted for righteousness sake... I've known a lot of christians that mistake the two...

Your a fine example of tolerance and basic christian values as well Robbie.
A personal attack as you call it is as simple as disagreement. I've been called names accused of lieing along with a host of others as well.

 

[Selene]

I think this verse - as some have rightly pointed out already - is one where context clearly matters.

The point was that you don't come up with another Father or another Christ to replace the original in Christianity. Most major religions have a prophet, teacher, or guru to whom is an earthly (fleshly) mediator. What Christ was saying here is you don't need one. This is one where I do disagree a bit with the denominations that use the Word "father" for a priest/teacher/pastor, but I do recognize that they're not saying that as in "Father God." The latter aspect is the message here.

I agree. Even the Apostles also called other people "father," but they don't say it as in "Father God."

 

[jacobtaylor]

Well hello selene, as you can see I really don't have a great desire to be silent on a forum that supports Catholics and liberals at the expense of sola scripture as most every protestants believes in. So you can hit the report button now. Its apparently OK for you violate harassment rules to continue your accusations, Im untruthful about your faith in a PM. Weren't the Jesuits accused of infiltrating governments and churches to promote Catholic values?

While pretending to not be associated with the church?

 

[Selene]

Just know that if the two of you get reprimanded by anyone here it wouldn't be because you're standing up for righteousness... it will be because you treat people poorly and lash out with insults and slanderous remarks...

In the last three sentences you just insinuated that people were heretics, fools, and Judas... that's so weak...

Just learn to share your beliefs without making personal attacks towards others and you'll do fine... and don't think for a second standing up for Jesus has anything to do with calling people fools, or Judas's, or beach bums, or surf wax sniffers, or heretics, or this, or that...

That has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with vicious personal attacks against people because you share different beliefs than them... and that aint cool... so know this... if you get reprimanded it will be because of the poor way you treat people and not because you're being persecuted for righteousness sake... I've known a lot of christians that mistake the two...

I hear where you are coming from, and I agree with your post. The important thing is to love our neighbors as ourselves. That is a true Christian value. Everyone will get different interpretations from the same passage or even one sentence from the Bible. I may not agree with another's interpretation, but listening to them helps me understand why they interpreted it in that way.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Robbie]

Jacob,

I already said that sharing different beliefs is fine... but a personal attack is when you call people fools, or Judas's, or beach bums, or surf wax sniffers, or heretics, or this, or that because they have different beliefs than you... that's what causes people to react in anger because that kind of stuff hurts... and once someone reacts in anger it starts the vicious cycle... we should turn the other cheek but we also shouldn't provoke people to anger... I'm not saying it's wrong for you to do that to others and OK for others to do that to you... I'm just saying realize if you suffer reprimanding that it will be based on you being hurtful towards others and not you sharing your beliefs.

Realize this man... whether you can believe it now or not we're going to come to a unity in what we believe one way or the other because eventually we're both going to know as we're known... I'm not yet perfect... so until that day the best we can do is follow our personal convictions and share our beliefs... I understand you believe what you believe because you think it's right... as I believe what I believe because I think it's right... and we're both 100% right in following our convictions as they lead us and testing any Spirit that challenges our beliefs... but what serves nothing is personal insults... all that does is cause strife and chaos and destroys any chance of anyone listening. Walls are put up when people feel under attack.... and walls are what make it impossible for understanding of each others beliefs to be made.

So just try and tone it down a bit... don't call people names... share your beliefs... withhold your judgments... and we'll all be able to discuss beliefs instead of attacking each other... I understand your beliefs... and I'm not going to call you a heretic, or a fool, or a Judas because they're different than mine... it's just what you believe and you believe what you believe because it's what you think is right... so all you are is someone who has different beliefs than me... as I am someone who believes different than you.

How about this... is there anything we can agree on?

Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins?

 

[jacobtaylor]

I hear where you are coming from, and I agree with your post. The important thing is to love our neighbors as ourselves. That is a true Christian value. Everyone will get different interpretations from the same passage or even one sentence from the Bible. I may not agree with another's interpretation, but listening to them helps me understand why they interpreted it in that way.

In Christ,
Selene

It not interpretation its called making the bible an incomplete source of salvation both you "the Catholic" and Robbie "the liberal" disregard the notion of sola scripture to teach your own brand of salvation. That goes against 99% of protestant denominations. In that the failure of the managers of this site to keep a basic docrine of protestants as a standard and admonishes those that stand by it shouldn't be claiming to be a christian site. Its better described as a liberal catholic site.

 

[HammerStone]

It not interpretation its called making the bible an incomplete source of salvation both you "the Catholic" and Robbie "the liberal" disregard the notion of sola scripture to teach your own brand of salvation. That goes against 99% of protestant denominations. In that the failure of the managers of this site to keep a basic docrine of protestants as a standard and admonishes those that stand by it shouldn't be claiming to be a christian site. Its better described as a liberal catholic site.

Alright, so just a little while ago you were after the Catholics because of their supposed statement - and hey some do the hold the belief - that they were the only church. Are explicitly defined Protestants the only Church or is the Church a follower of Jesus Christ regardless of denominations and failures?

As far as CB being a "liberal Catholic site" - yeah I think the Catholics would disagree with you there.

 

[Nomad]

Well.... Moses and Elijah wrote a lot of what was compiled into the bible to... but what did God say to the disciples, "This is my beloved Son... but listen to Moses, Elijah and Paul and if they disagree with my Son He must be wrong" NOT!!! haha He said this is my beloved Son... hear Him... and then there was only Jesus...

I grow weary of your selective use of Scripture and the way you fail to respond to the great weight of the evidence against your rebellious position. Your proof-text in no, way, shape or form precludes men as teachers in the Church. You sir, are the poster child for the Church's need of gifted teachers.

When are you going to deal honestly with all of the Scripture references I presented against the ridiculous idea that you have no teacher but Jesus? How about telling me why the Apostle John even bothered to write his epistle if your take on 1 John 2:27 is correct? If you're correct, there would have been no need and John would have proven himself a hypocrite. Remember that post? Here's a sample of what you willingly ignore:

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

What do you want to do with this and the multitude of other references I quoted?

The post in its entirety can be found here - http://www.christian...post__p__103168

and Paul didn't write the bible... Paul wrote letters which were later compiled into the bible...

Now you're just grasping at straws. You can't be serious with this nonsense. Paul's epistles constitute about two-thirds of the New Testament and were considered to be inspired Scripture by the Apostles long before the close of the first century.

2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

 

[jacobtaylor]

Alright, so just a little while ago you were after the Catholics because of their supposed statement - and hey some do the hold the belief - that they were the only church. Are explicitly defined Protestants the only Church or is the Church a follower of Jesus Christ regardless of denominations and failures?

As far as CB being a "liberal Catholic site" - yeah I think the Catholics would disagree with you there.

Its your management that causes this disunion. When a site allows doctrine to be spread that is not defined by scripture whether it be adding or taking away you invite disagreement.
As soon as you chose to not enforce sola scripture as I said, that is accepted by 99% of all protestant denominations you hold the door open for anyone to teach what ever they want.
I was not after a catholic in the sense you say. I was quoting catholic doctrine that the liberal catholics on this site disagreed with. My making that point has been a mistake, simply because you choose to applied a 75% warning stat to my profile. Thats the reason I am warning sola scripture members. Let the anti sola scripture believer spread what ever they like. Both aspen and selene probable spend so much time here, is because they are so liberal in there catholic faith. Their probably not welcome on catholic sites because of there desire to be luke warn in ether faith catholic or protestant faith. They as well as Robbie practice some sort of hybred faith that does not include sola scripture for lack of a better description. That, by your actions and the members still here is an indicator open interpretation is encouraged.

 

[Robbie]

Hey Nomad...Maybe Peter is talking about you when he says they don't understand scriptures? I mean... just because I disagree with your interpretation of scriptures doesn't default to me being wrong... I mean one of the characteristics of the people who twist the scriptures is that they're unstable...

But the truth is he isn't talking about you or me because he's talking about people who say, "“Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” I haven't heard either of us say that... As far the way you talk to people... the way I see it is you know a tree by it's fruit... and if the fruit of someone's beliefs is them treating others poorly the last thing I'm going to do is follow their lead.

So why not maybe start from the foundation of what we might share beliefs about and be nice to each other?

Or would you rather just find stuff that you disagree about with people and then insult them?

Let's start with the chief cornerstone that we're to build on..

Do you disagree with any of these beliefs?

I believe Jesus is the Christ... the only begotten Son of God... the Word of God who died for the sins of humanity so we can be saved.

I believe that Jesus conquered death when He rose from the grave.

I believe that He is the way the truth and the life...

 

[archaeologist5]

Well.... Moses and Elijah wrote a lot of what was compiled into the bible to... but what did God say to the disciples, "This is my beloved Son... but listen to Moses, Elijah and Paul and if they disagree with my Son He must be wrong" NOT!!! haha He said this is my beloved Son... hear Him... and then there was only Jesus...

and Paul didn't write the bible... Paul wrote letters which were later compiled into the bible...

I believe Jesus is the One we're supposed to listen to...

So now that it seems this is going in the direction of personal attacks I'm done posting about this topic... I've shared my beliefs... I've testified to what Jesus made possible... I can now shake the dust off my feet and move on....

Hope you're blessed...

you forget what Jesus said in John 5:46-47, doing that by memory and i will paraphrase, 'if they do not believe moses, how will they believe me? the old testament people do not disagree with Jesus or it wouldn't be the Bible.

 

[Robbie]

I hear ya Arch and I agree that Moses testified to Jesus... but can you understand what I'm saying about the mount of transfiguration? It's not discounting any testimonies to Jesus in the prophets... it's just saying that now that you've come to Him you should hear Him... "This is my beloved Son... hear Him"... and then there was only Jesus... You know what I'm saying? Don't just believe me... test me for sure and if I'm wrong let God show everyone including me... but if I'm right the same... let God teach us all the truth...

Here's something else to meditate on...

Why do you think He said. "The law and the prophets were until John."

Why would He say they were until John?

I have my own opinion but ask the Lord and let me know what you feel He tells you...

 

[Nomad]

Hey Nomad...Maybe Peter is talking about you when he says they don't understand scriptures? I mean... just because I disagree with your interpretation of scriptures doesn't default to me being wrong... I mean one of the characteristics of the people who twist the scriptures is that they're unstable...

But the truth is he isn't talking about you or me because he's talking about people who say, "“Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” I haven't heard either of us say that... As far the way you talk to people... the way I see it is you know a tree by it's fruit... and if the fruit of someone's beliefs is them treating others poorly the last thing I'm going to do is follow their lead.

So why not maybe start from the foundation of what we might share beliefs about and be nice to each other?

Or would you rather just find stuff that you disagree about with people and then insult them?

Let's start with the chief cornerstone that we're to build on..

Do you disagree with any of these beliefs?

Unfortunately your response, quoted above, has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said in my last post. Are you going to respond to what I actually said, or is this just another one of your red herring posts? I'll post it again below so you're without excuse.

Well.... Moses and Elijah wrote a lot of what was compiled into the bible to... but what did God say to the disciples, "This is my beloved Son... but listen to Moses, Elijah and Paul and if they disagree with my Son He must be wrong" NOT!!! haha He said this is my beloved Son... hear Him... and then there was only Jesus...

I grow weary of your selective use of Scripture and the way you fail to respond to the great weight of the evidence against your rebellious position. Your proof-text in no, way, shape or form precludes men as teachers in the Church. You sir, are the poster child for the Church's need of gifted teachers.

When are you going to deal honestly with all of the Scripture references I presented against the ridiculous idea that you have no teacher but Jesus? How about telling me why the Apostle John even bothered to write his epistle if your take on 1 John 2:27 is correct? If you're correct, there would have been no need and John would have proven himself a hypocrite. Remember that post? Here's a sample of what you willingly ignore:

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

What do you want to do with this and the multitude of other references I quoted?

The post in its entirety can be found here- http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13468-should-people-be-called-teachers/page__view__findpost__p__103168

 

[jacobtaylor]

I want to make a public thank you to Hammerstone for reducing my warning stat. And to thank him for allowing my open opinion to be heard.

It doesn't change the fact that people which hold the bible in reverence vs those that prefer a selective approach to it will continue to disagree. Something I would also like for you all and Hammerstone to note in observation is even with disagreement in sola scripture followers vs non sola followers, is this seems to be the point of division between the two camps on this site. I don't hate Catholics per say I gladly include anyone that questions the Slavic validity of the bible alone in that group as well. Lets just face it thats what the whole reformation was based on in the first place. With-out some one defining what position is acceptable, and which is not, we will probably continue to reply the indifferance that has exsisted for hunderes of years. Jesus said you can't serve two masters, IMO that means you believe the only record we have of the first witness of Jesus in the NT and use it as a arbitrator of the truth, or you don't. As well as the Hebrew record of cannon that was establish by the Jews in about 100 BC as well. The Jews did this so future generations would know what they believed, they were being wiped out by the Romans. Israel ceased to be a nation but the Jews had the for-site to canonize the OT.

 

[Robbie]

Look Nomad,

I heard what you said and responded to it... I believe John's testimonies to Christ... and I appreciate John sharing His beliefs and the Lord in me has taught me through them... as He's taught me through Paul's beliefs... going to the beach... or any other part of my life...

Now I tried to find a common foundation with you and you weren't willing to recognize it... even though that foundation was Christ... which to me can't really say anything other than you just want to bicker with people.

So since you're such a fan of Paul let's listen to what Paul himself says..

And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

So first off Paul says that he's speaking to them carnally... it's a very spiritual understanding to realize that the Spirit of God is in us and that we're taught by God... so Paul says that he is speaking carnally... then Paul goes on to recognize that he is nothing but it's God who adds the increase... that the only thing Paul did was lay the foundation... and that foundation is Christ... then he goes on to talk about building on that foundation.

I'm saying the same thing... the foundation is Christ and Paul is nothing... it's God that gives the increase...

So even though I might be in disagreement with what you say about Paul... I'm not in disagreement with what Paul says about himself... or what Paul says about Jesus...

As far as your continued manipulative slaps in my face... why not stop? Like I said already repeatedly... you can share beliefs without delivering them with personal insults... you're not getting anything out of it man... you're just hurting yourself...

 

[Nomad]

I'm saying the same thing... the foundation is Christ and Paul is nothing...

Are you saying Paul's epistles are not inspired Scripture? The Apostle Peter says they were. He says so in the following passage.

2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

 

[Robbie]

I just repeated what Paul said about himself... haha... he said he was nothing... that he just laid the foundation of Christ... and it was God who gave the increase...

I said I agree with Paul... that Paul is nothing... that the foundation is Christ... and once we have that foundation it's God that gives the increase... not men... whether Paul or Apollos...

I'm the one agreeing with Paul... it's what he said... if Paul disagrees with what you say about him my guess is you're the one that's wrong... haha

 

[Nomad]

I just repeated what Paul said about himself... haha... he said he was nothing... that he just laid the foundation of Christ... and it was God who gave the increase...

I said I agree with Paul... that Paul is nothing... that the foundation is Christ... and once we have that foundation it's God that gives the increase... not men... whether Paul or Apollos...

I'm the one agreeing with Paul... it's what he said... if Paul disagrees with what you say about him my guess is you're the one that's wrong... haha

Another slippery post Robbie? Paul saying he is "nothing" has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Once again, we see the folly of ripping verses out of context. I'll explain it later if you like.

Let's try again. I'll boil it down as much as I can.

1. Are Paul's epistles inspired Scripture as Peter says?

2. Is Paul wrong about the following statement?

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

 

[Robbie]

Dude... Peter says that unstable people twist Paul's writings as they do the scriptures...

I don't twist Paul's writing... I take them as they are... so when he points out that he just lays the foundation of Christ and that he's nothing and that it's God that adds the increase... I not only repeat him word for word but I'm in agreement with His beliefs... I do the same... I testify to Christ... He's the foundation... but it's only God that adds the increase... God's the only teacher... He's the only One that can add increase...

People who twist what Paul writes are those that say something like, "What Paul really meant is that he wanted us to believe that he really is something and the foundation is the bible and increase comes from reading Paul's letters because they're God's Word"

I understand that my beliefs disagree with your religion... and that you're going to defend your religion tell your blue in the face... so let's just accept we believe different and move on... otherwise this will just go on and on forever... it aint gonna go anywhere homey because if you've already made up in your mind that your religion is right you've already made up in your mind that anyone that disagrees with you is wrong... even if that person is Paul or Jesus...

I'm pointing out to you what Paul SIMPLY says about himself and your arguing with Paul (not me) because of a letter Peter wrote talking about those that twist Paul's letters... but you're never gonna see that as long as you come from the foundation that you must be right because your religion is right...

Hope this blesses you man...