Should Trump Step Down?

[WaterSong]

I'm listening. Under what circumstances would the 12th Amendment be invoked, and more importantly by whom?

Each presidential election follows the rules provided under the 12th amendment.
For reference sake:

Amendment XII
The electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--the person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

 

[WaterSong]

This is a great reminder.
November 3rd,
Town Hall Opinion Article: Four More Years - Why President Donald J. Trump Deserves Re-Election

 

[Waiting on him]

Let loose the dogs of war.

 

[WaterSong]

Let loose the dogs of war.

Would certainly beat the pet that is Biden.

 

[lforrest]

With all respect, that's a cop out for the fainthearted.
Were the next American revolution to occur, it is a matter of self defense and perfectly permissible under God.
Proverbs 25:26
Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked.

Jesus, who was God, was no pacifist.

Luke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

And those Christians who give way before the wicked will answer for it when God asks them to account of their works and their lives as members of the Ekklesia.

God is honored all through the founding documents of this nation. When we witness the Democrats working to erode the religious freedoms of Christians our first amendment right, not privilege, is under attack.
Many a patriot who was Christian died to defend what is held sacred in our Constitutional rights. A civil contract that enumerates the rights of we the people in order to insure we are protected from government overreach.

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Wrong contexts:

Proverbs 25:26 Refers to compromising oneself.

Luke 22:35-38 Refers to defense of family and friends against criminals threatening our lives, not armed resistance to the government.

John 15:13 In addition to Jesus' own death it is a parallel to Matthew 16:24 and Matthew 20:27 to name a few. In the literal sense brotherhood among the solders uses love as psychological leverage for them to risk their lives. I choose to avoid being placed in a situation where I am at risk of being manipulated into doing anything outside of conscience.

I already know what I am supposed to do in service to the Lord. And I am well aware that Christians, including myself if I live long enough to see it, will be put to death in the new order.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Each presidential election follows the rules provided under the 12th amendment.
For reference sake:

Amendment XII
The electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--the person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding something here, Watersong, but this details what will happen IF the 12th Amendment is invoked. I'm asking under what conditions it will be.

 

[WaterSong]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding something here, Watersong, but this details what will happen IF the 12th Amendment is invoked. I'm asking under what conditions it will be.

This election. All elections prior followed the blueprint of the 12th.
The 12th replaced Article II Section 1 and Clause 3 of the USC.
Interpretation: Article II, Section 1, Clauses 2 and 3 | The National Constitution Center

 

[historyb]

You may need to establish that with a little more than your word, LoL. From what I've read it has only been invoked once, and that was because neither candidate wound up with enough electoral votes to win the election. Unless things can be reversed in the courts, that is not the case as it stands now.

It's not my word it has come from lawyers, Constitutional Lawyers at that.

 

[WaterSong]

Wrong contexts:

Proverbs 25:26 Refers to compromising oneself.

Luke 22:35-38 Refers to defense of family and friends against criminals threatening our lives, not armed resistance to the government.

John 15:13 In addition to Jesus' own death it is a parallel to Matthew 16:24 and Matthew 20:27 to name a few. In the literal sense brotherhood among the solders uses love as psychological leverage for them to risk their lives. I choose to avoid being placed in a situation where I am at risk of being manipulated into doing anything outside of conscience.

I already know what I am supposed to do in service to the Lord. And I am well aware that Christians, including myself if I live long enough to see it, will be put to death in the new order.

I believe you are entitled to your beliefs in all respects per your interpretation of those scriptures and the rest.
Many people believe they should die rather than fight to insure their freedoms against an unrighteous foe. Who am I to say they should not do?
God Bless.

 

[Hidden In Him]

@Hidden In Him I'm not American, but Canadian; I'm assuming that such an unusual arrangement, if it were ever even enacted, would be as much an act of the legislature and judiciary as it would be by executive order. It would be hard to see the legislature and judiciary signing away their own powers in favour of perpetual powers exercised by a President and extending beyond January 20.

Technically I think you would be partly correct: It would lie within Congress's jurisdiction to declare Martial Law in a domestic conflict within US borders. But under the scenario described in the OP, Constitutional Law would kinda be going out the window already as is, so you are talking more along the lines of a military take over of the government.

 

[farouk]

Technically I think you would be partly correct: It would lie within Congress's jurisdiction to declare Martial Law in a domestic conflict within US borders. But under the scenario described in the OP, Constitutional Law would kinda be going out the window already as is, so you are talking more along the lines of a military take over of the government.

@Hidden In Him As I recall, the essence of being President of the United States under the oath of office is to uphold the Constitution. So as a Canadian neighbour I guess I would be surprised if the Congress and the Supreme Court and the American people would simply lie down and acquiesce to someone who, despite the oath of office and term limit, just decided not to uphold the Constitution.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It's not my word it has come from lawyers, Constitutional Lawyers at that.

Citations, History. What part of "not just taking your word for it" are you missing?

Citations, with links provided.

 

[Hidden In Him]

@Hidden In Him As I recall, the essence of being President of the United States under the oath of office is to uphold the Constitution. So as a Canadian neighbour I guess I would be surprised if the Congress and the Supreme Court and the American people would simply lie down and acquiesce to someone who, despite the oath of office and term limit, just decided not to uphold the Constitution.

Depends on which "American people" you are referring to. Everyone responding in this thread so far, with the exception of probably Forrest and myself, side with him doing so.

 

[historyb]

Citations, History. What part of "not just taking your word for it" are you missing?

Citations, with links provided.

If my word ain't goo than neither are yours in your goofy prophecy threads either

 

[April_Rose]

To answer the OP,.. why should he?

 

[Hidden In Him]

This election. All elections prior followed the blueprint of the 12th.
The 12th replaced Article II Section 1 and Clause 3 of the USC.
Interpretation: Article II, Section 1, Clauses 2 and 3 | The National Constitution Center

You are saying the 12th Amendment is carried out automatically as part of the electoral college process? I'm not following you.

 

[WaterSong]

Citations, History. What part of "not just taking your word for it" are you missing?

Citations, with links provided.

The 12th amendment is pro forma with regard to any presidential election. Note in a prior post of mine the link to the 12th amendment language and which speaks also of the Electoral College.

 

[farouk]

Depends on which "American people" you are referring to. Everyone responding in this thread so far, with the exception of probably Forrest and myself, side with him doing so.

I am talking about under the Constitution and rule of law in the United States.

The alternative would surely be anarchy, if some people just decide that law and constitution don't apply to them.

As far as I understand it, whether a sitting President wants to remain President or not, makes no difference after noon on January 20.

 

[WaterSong]

You are saying the 12th Amendment is carried out automatically as part of the electoral college process? I'm not following you.

OK.
Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

 

[Hidden In Him]

If my word ain't goo than neither are yours in your goofy prophecy threads either

Thanks so much, LoL. My bad for not realizing substantiation was too much to ask.