Should we as Christians support the State of Israel ?

[Wrangler]

Are you calling God a liar

No. I already called it - you making a distinction without a difference in a shallow attempt to shroud your antisemitism.

 

[Jay Ross]

Don't you have a map? It's called Israel in the Land of the Bible, Capital Jerusalem, in the news every day. I hope you don't bring the curse on you and your family!

This is just ignorance on your part Jack.

Goodbye

 

[Jack]

This is just ignorance on your part Jack.

Goodbye

Guess where Jesus will return.

 

[Wrangler]

I am careful. I don't speak against Israel. I don't pretend to be Israel like many wannabees.

And you don’t pretend to support Israel in theory but don’t in practice. @Jay Ross makes this pretension.

 

[Jay Ross]

No. I already called it - you making a distinction without a difference in a shallow attempt to shroud your antisemitism.

Wrangler, if I am antisemitic then what are you?

I am presenting God's prophetic words for Israel and how His plan for the peoples of the earth will play out. That is not speaking out against the purposes for Israel.

Goodbye

 

[Jack]

Wrangler, if I am antisemitic then what are you?

I am presenting God's prophetic words for Israel and how His plan for the peoples of the earth will play out. That is not speaking out against the purposes for Israel.

Goodbye

Guess where Jesus will return. Don't know?

 

[Jay Ross]

Guess where Jesus will return.

Simply irrelevant.

 

[Jack]

Simply irrelevant.

IOW you don't have a clue! Does it break your heart that Jesus will return and FIGHT for Israel?

 

[Wrangler]

I am presenting God's prophetic words for Israel

Oh? Let’s see how you present …

Guess where Jesus will return.

Simply irrelevant.

Once again @Jay Ross, you are just not being honest with yourself. Jack, as usual, concisely reveals your self-deception.

God’s prophecy is that Jesus will return in Israel and for obvious reasons, you claim the prophecy is irrelevant while simultaneously claiming to present God’s prophecy.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Some people don’t give honest answers.

Gee, Wrangler...some people really don’t want honest answers....it gets them all in a knot.

I see you vainly arguing for national “Israel” and her “land”...taken over long ago by foreign powers so that Israel never did get to have their homeland back to themselves.....why did God not give it back to them?
Why did he not get them to build a third Temple? 2000 years now without one.

In Jesus’ day the land of Israel was occupied by Rome, whose authority he never challenged. His disciples were to obey their ruling authority insofar as it did not infringe on God’s law, which had to come first.

But as regards the “land” being “fertile soil”....do you use the word “earth” in only one reference?
“Earth” is the name of the planet....but it is also what we plant our food crops in....fertile soil.

I find your replies ‘underspiritualized’ and vacant of any true meaning that does not align with your mistaken view that natural Israel is the “Israel of God”......they clearly rely on foreign powers to support them militarily, but if God was supporting them, they would not be reliant on foreign alliances....the very thing God punished his ancient people for doing. Do you do any Bible study at all, I wonder?

You want to conquer evil with more evil.....it doesn’t work. (Rom 12:17-21)

Your support for the scripturally illiterate troll here is not doing you any favours.....

 

[Jack]

Gee, Wrangler...some people really don’t want honest answers....it gets them all in a knot.

You might get over it.

I see you vainly arguing for national “Israel” and her “land”...taken over long ago by foreign powers so that Israel never did get to have their homeland back to themselves.....why did God not give it back to them?
Why did he not get them to build a third Temple? 2000 years now without one.

Guess where Jesus will return Aunty. It's called ISRAEL, in the Land of the Bible.

In Jesus’ day the land of Israel was occupied by Rome, whose authority he never challenged. His disciples were to obey their ruling authority insofar as it did not infringe on God’s law, which had to come first.

But as regards the “land” being “fertile soil”....do you use the word “earth” in only one reference?
“Earth” is the name of the planet....but it is also what we plant our food crops in....fertile soil.

I find your replies ‘underspiritualized’ and vacant of any true meaning that does not align with your mistaken view that natural Israel is the “Israel of God”......they clearly rely on foreign powers to support them militarily, but if God was supporting them, they would not be reliant on foreign alliances....the very thing God punished his ancient people for doing. Do you do any Bible study at all, I wonder?

You want to conquer evil with more evil.....it doesn’t work. (Rom 12:17-21)

Your support for the scripturally illiterate troll here is not doing you any favours.....

You sound like one of these Aunty.

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Guess where Jesus will return Aunty. It's called ISRAEL, in the Land of the Bible.

I know you think you are some kind of expert on “Israel”, but again you shoot off your mouth in ignorance.
Arent you sick of making a fool of yourself?

This is what “Israel in the land of the Bible“ was called by Bible scholars….

“The Land of Israel (Hebrew: אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל, Modern: Éretz Yisra'él, Tiberian: ʾEreṣ Yīsrāʾēl, land of Jacob (later known as Israel) is the traditional Jewish name for an area of the Southern Levant. Related biblical, religious, and historical English terms include the Land of Canaan, the Promised Land, the Holy Land, and Palestine.

“The term "Land of Israel"…..this “phrase appears nowhere in Pentateuch (Torah)Ezekiel, although generally preferring the phrase 'soil of Israel' ('admat yiśrā'êl), employs eretz Israel twice, respectively at Ezekiel 40:2 and Ezekiel 47:18.[15]

According to Martin Noth, (German Hebrew Scholar) the term is not an "authentic and original name for this land", but instead serves as "a somewhat flexible description of the area which the Israelite tribes had their settlements".

“The Land of Israel” is “the land of Jacob”….whose name was changed to Israel.
The nation of Israel of today are not the same Israel….it is not a spiritual nation, but a political one……

You sound like one of these Aunty.

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

And there you are Jack….stuck in OT times with OT mentality…..Christians dispensed with that behavior….there was nothing more for God to prove. Nothing more that the Jews needed to know about the God they claimed to worship….God sent his son as the Messiah that they were expecting….and they murdered him….was that out of character? Was this anything new for these people?

God’s purpose for Israel was fulfilled in Christ’s birth….by the time he began his ministry, the Jews had not even received a correction from their God for over 300 years because God knew that they were incorrigible...so he just patiently waited for the time when his redeemer would come into the world, and during his ministry Jesus castigated the religious leaders of Israel, condemning them to “Gehenna”, (Matt 23:33) something about which, you have no clue.

After Christ’s death, God was done with the Jews... (Matt 23:37-39)...individuals from that nation were as welcome as anyone else, (Acts 10:34-35) but the nation itself was abandoned…..what did God owe them that he had not already paid in full?

Spiritual Israel will be saved…but natural Israel is only a remnant of that nation, as it was prophesied….all of Christ’s first disciples were Jewish…..after that the Gentiles were brought in….nothing is stopping natural Jews from becoming Christians…..they just don’t want to admit that they were wrong about Jesus….even Jews who become “messianic”, refuse to be called ”Christians”. National pride is still evident.
They have nothing to be proud of.

What an appalling ambassador for Christ you are Jack…..what do you think you sound like?

Be careful that the judgment you give to others is not the one you will receive yourself….(1 Cor 10:12)

 

[Lizbeth]

And to stop boasting against the branches understanding they are beloved for the Father's sakes

Romans 11:13-22
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of
them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be,
but life from the dead?
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among
them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee,
goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 11:28
they are beloved for the Father's sakes

Yes, they are beloved on account of the patriarchs.........but it also says right there in the same verse that they are enemies for the gospel's sake. It is unfortunately true......though we desire only good for them, and above all that they might know their true Messiah. The firstfruit and root of that tree is Christ Jesus....they are only grafted back into it through receiving Him, the same way as Gentiles.

We as believers are not to consider ourselves superior, or consider them inferior......we all were once as lost as they. But it is not boasting against the branches to simply recognize and acknowledge that unbelieving Jews are lost souls who are capable of erring badly, and also are often enemies of the cross, sadly. We are not to be unequally yoked with them any more than we are to be unequally yoked with unbelieving non-Jews.

 

[Lizbeth]

Baloney!

Sit back and watch God fight for Israel, in the Land of the Bible where Jesus will return!

Please pay very close attention to this passage:

Mat 24:23-27

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Sadly, the Hebrew roots movement is leading many souls to the strong delusion I’m afraid….the son of perdition…false messiah…..deceiving all but the very elect. BE NOT UNEQUALLY YOKED WITH UNBELIEVERS...BUT COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM...LEST YOU SHARE IN THEIR SINS AND RECEIVE OF THEIR PLAGUES.

 

[Wrangler]

Not quite @Lizbeth

it also says right there in the same verse that they are enemies for the gospel's sake.

The NSRV states at verse 28 that they are enemies for the sake of us Gentiles. What translation are you reading?

The firstfruit and root of that tree is Christ Jesus

No. The NSRV has a very long study note on this point. My physical roots are Italian, Irish, Portugese and French. The metaphor is about the people one's ancestors come from. Same here.

Neither the first fruit nor the root in Romans 11 refer to Jesus but the people of Israel, generally and the patriarchs specifically. These are our spiritual roots.

The whole chapter is about Israel. V 1 opens by asking if God has rejected his people. This is not asking if God has rejected his own Anointed! V 1 continues with Paul NOT saying he is a Christ follower but an Israelite. Finally, he references he's not descended from Christ but Abraham, the patriarch. I believe all your errors in this thread are from being overly-spiritualized, i.e., soulless.

 

[Wrangler]

Please pay very close attention to this passage:

Mat 24:23-27

The discussion has been about Romans 11, not Mattew 24.

Sadly, the Hebrew roots movement

The movement from Romans 11!

 

[Marvelloustime]

OH HE WILL all right .
And he warned the jews he would .
And that they , the unbeliving WOULD BE CAST OUT .
OH JESUS sure is gonna gather from the east , west and etc
ALL WHO ARE HIS and they SURE ARE GONNA be seated in HEAVENLY JERUSALEM .
ya keep seeing the earthen
WHEN IT SHOULD have been the HEAVENLY .
The blood of the jews will be on your hands jack .
The blood of the world and the jews who beleived not
will be upon the hands of the nar realm .
OF the RCC , of any and of all who sat under the ecumeincal WHORE of all harlots and her intefaith plan of anti christ .
I sure hope if anyone is connected to that group THEY GETS OUT FAST . AND i do mean super fast too .
Cause its all coming down on JESUS DAY .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, they are beloved on account of the patriarchs.........but it also says right there in the same verse that they are enemies for the gospel's sake. It is unfortunately true......though we desire only good for them, and above all that they might know their true Messiah. The firstfruit and root of that tree is Christ Jesus....they are only grafted back into it through receiving Him, the same way as Gentiles.

We as believers are not to consider ourselves superior, or consider them inferior......we all were once as lost as they. But it is not boasting against the branches to simply recognize and acknowledge that unbelieving Jews are lost souls who are capable of erring badly, and also are often enemies of the cross, sadly. We are not to be unequally yoked with them any more than we are to be unequally yoked with unbelieving non-Jews.

Correct dear sister .
Many are now under a religoin of dissimulation .
the true apostels did all to preach JESUS to the jews and gentiles
to bring them to Christ .
Todays christendom does all to preach THE JEW to bring us TO THEM . that is a problem indeed .
But then this is why they cannot see what is in the interfaith abraham peace accords . THEY see it all as the plan of GOD
to save israel and the world . But what i see within it
wont save any . THE LIE is ALL OVER IT . And JESUS HAS BEEN DENIED for to attain this peace .
THERE is only one i know that would do that and by peace would destroy many . And he was in the garden and had
tempted eve .

 

[amigo de christo]

Please pay very close attention to this passage:

Mat 24:23-27

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Sadly, the Hebrew roots movement is leading many souls to the strong delusion I’m afraid….the son of perdition…false messiah…..deceiving all but the very elect. BE NOT UNEQUALLY YOKED WITH UNBELIEVERS...BUT COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM...LEST YOU SHARE IN THEIR SINS AND RECEIVE OF THEIR PLAGUES.

Blind indeed dear sister .
How often i long ago seen them use
the very verse that paul had wrote to the church
concerning the giving to the poor saints in jerusalem OUT of text .
AS IF paul was telling the church . HEY we have t osend money to THE JEWISH tem ple and etc
to the nation of God to b less them . This was a call to send to the Apostels and poor saints IN JERSUALEM .
But men like john hagee and scores of others have led this people astray .
And its got worse too sister . TILL now we see the long led pope and v atican and yes UN led plan
OF the abraham peace accords interfaith being embraced .
Cause hey , to them its God and HIS PLAN to SAVE ISRAEL . Though it sure is clear to see
IT WONT . I mean THE VERY SAVOIR OF ISRAEL IT DENIES and hollers OH all religoins serve the same GOD .
That aint gonna save the jews or the gentiles . ITs peace is only gonna usher down
SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon all who joined hands with the lie of anti christ and its peace .
JESUS has been denied , and these folks DONT care . SO long as the JEW is exalted and the earthen kingdom established
is ALL they care about . The very establishment of the one world religoin
that even TRUMP claimed to be against , HE and all now build and prepare this people right to IT .
Its called SMOKE SCREEN . keep the peoples pitted and divided through poltiics
so as they wont notice B OTH sides Are doing the SAME THING .to lead their people Right to the same LIE .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Blind indeed dear sister .
How often i long ago seen them use
the very verse that paul had wrote to the church
concerning the giving to the poor saints in jerusalem OUT of text .
AS IF paul was telling the church . HEY we have t osend money to THE JEWISH tem ple and etc
to the nation of God to b less them . This was a call to send to the Apostels and poor saints IN JERSUALEM .
But men like john hagee and scores of others have led this people astray .
And its got worse too sister . TILL now we see the long led pope and v atican and yes UN led plan
OF the abraham peace accords interfaith being embraced .
Cause hey , to them its God and HIS PLAN to SAVE ISRAEL . Though it sure is clear to see
IT WONT . I mean THE VERY SAVOIR OF ISRAEL IT DENIES and hollers OH all religoins serve the same GOD .
That aint gonna save the jews or the gentiles . ITs peace is only gonna usher down
SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon all who joined hands with the lie of anti christ and its peace .
JESUS has been denied , and these folks DONT care . SO long as the JEW is exalted and the earthen kingdom established
is ALL they care about . The very establishment of the one world religoin
that even TRUMP claimed to be against , HE and all now build and prepare this people right to IT .
Its called SMOKE SCREEN . keep the peoples pitted and divided through poltiics
so as they wont notice B OTH sides Are doing the SAME THING .to lead their people Right to the same LIE .

@amigo de christo