Signs
- Thread starter Justin Mangonel
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Dear JB,
The problem is not that I do not respect scriptures it is rather that I do not respect certain doctrines that are held to be inviolate by those who believe in them.
Blessings,
Justin
The problem is not that I do not respect scriptures it is rather that I do not respect certain doctrines that are held to be inviolate by those who believe in them.
Blessings,
Justin
Dear C,
One of the concerns I have with how Christians come to understand the word is that they are fed every part of it and thus sometimes never come to own what they believe for themselves. I want God to be the go to person for revelation and not me so I do not spell out everything for people to encourage them to search the scriptures and let God lead and guide you into the truth. I want to suggest where to dig but leave the digging to you. I know this frustrates people to some extent but I think it is how God wants people to enter into these truths.
The Bible is written in such a way that all the truths that God wants to reveal to you are there but still you have to be led by His Spirit and have it given unto you in order to see them. Likewise, I have shared most everything necessary to receive and explore this final feast but you need to go to God and have Him show you what He wants you to receive.
The tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil are mutually exclusive. You can have one or the other but not both. In order to have the tree of life we must forsake the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and evil. What people want me to provide them is the knowledge of good and that is not profitable and will not help you enter into the final feast. You must go to God and allow His Holy Spirit to take over and guide you into it. Munching on the knowledge of good will never get you there.
Blessings,
Justin
One of the concerns I have with how Christians come to understand the word is that they are fed every part of it and thus sometimes never come to own what they believe for themselves. I want God to be the go to person for revelation and not me so I do not spell out everything for people to encourage them to search the scriptures and let God lead and guide you into the truth. I want to suggest where to dig but leave the digging to you. I know this frustrates people to some extent but I think it is how God wants people to enter into these truths.
The Bible is written in such a way that all the truths that God wants to reveal to you are there but still you have to be led by His Spirit and have it given unto you in order to see them. Likewise, I have shared most everything necessary to receive and explore this final feast but you need to go to God and have Him show you what He wants you to receive.
The tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil are mutually exclusive. You can have one or the other but not both. In order to have the tree of life we must forsake the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and evil. What people want me to provide them is the knowledge of good and that is not profitable and will not help you enter into the final feast. You must go to God and allow His Holy Spirit to take over and guide you into it. Munching on the knowledge of good will never get you there.
Blessings,
Justin
1st paragraph - right onJustin Mangonel said:
2nd paragraph - same
3rd paragraph - Interesting concept, but IMO impossible. Man has already known evil; that can't be undone. Nor should it be. The knowledge of evil is a great weapon against it. Jesus himself knew what was in the heart of man, and knew how to choose between good and evil. GOD commanded Adam to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because he didn't want him to know evil. Now that he does, he must own it and master it. I would be interested in exploring this with you since it is a completely foreign idea to me, but seems important to you.
And a cameleon changes it color to blend into it's current environment as well.Justin Mangonel said:
Another classic non biblical quote from Justin, found in his thread "my scripture can beat your scripture"Justin Mangonel said:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17040-my-scripture-can-beat-up-your-scripture/
Enough saidJustin Mangonel said:
I going back to reading, commenting is useless when people simply reply to the current situation rather than being lead by the unchanging God through his Spirit.
Finding counter statements made by Justin is child's play, he simply replies to the current situation.
There will always be people that stir up contention. Even though this is a debate room, the debate need not be fully of anger and darkness. Rest assured, signs will not follow the spirit of contention that some are displaying.
Okay ladies and gents, I just spent about 20 minutes clearing up this thread. It has gone offtopic on a number of occasions. I apologize to the folks who saw legitimate discussion removed as a casualty of other posts being removed. Unfortunately, some posts had to be removed for continuity of discussion.
Please remain cognizant of our forum rules. If someone breaks them, instead of responding, please report them using the link located at the bottom right hand side of the individual post area. We cannot be eyes and ears in every thread all of the time. When you contribute to the behavior, it makes things more difficult on us. Try to stay away from namecalling and other insults, even veiled ones.
This thread will be strictly moderated from here on out.
Thanks.
Please remain cognizant of our forum rules. If someone breaks them, instead of responding, please report them using the link located at the bottom right hand side of the individual post area. We cannot be eyes and ears in every thread all of the time. When you contribute to the behavior, it makes things more difficult on us. Try to stay away from namecalling and other insults, even veiled ones.
This thread will be strictly moderated from here on out.
Thanks.
Thanks. I understand and appreciate the warning and the clean up. I think closer moderation will be good and helpful. Sorry for the part I played in overstepping.
Wormwood
Chaps
Justin,Justin Mangonel said:
I strongly disagree. The Word of God is clearly proclaimed truth...not a puzzle to be unlocked by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit inspired the Scriptures so they could be clearly understood in their original intent. For further information, see my comments in the blog on the doctrine of Illumination
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I think signs from God always point towards Christ - either to His life and ministry or to His second coming. Everything else is divination of scripture and frankly, a dangerous waste of time. Every time Christ talked about the coming of His Kingdom, He spoke as if it was eminent - 'wars and rumors of war' (in other words RIGHT NOW) - this is not a phrase that speaks of the future - there have always wars and rumors of war and always will be until He returns.
So, IMO opinion, unless you are talking about Christ's Kingdom in our hearts today or Christ's second coming, any minute - your prophecy is in vain.
So, IMO opinion, unless you are talking about Christ's Kingdom in our hearts today or Christ's second coming, any minute - your prophecy is in vain.
Dear W,
The only truth is through revelation. Without revelation there can be not true understanding of God.
Blessings,
Justin
The only truth is through revelation. Without revelation there can be not true understanding of God.
Blessings,
Justin
Wormwood
Chaps
Yes. The Bible is revelation not personal whims and trusting gut feelings as being the voice of the Spirit.
Dear All,
It is OK by me for you to disagree about revelation. I know it is the normative thing to do....grin.
Blessings,
Justin
It is OK by me for you to disagree about revelation. I know it is the normative thing to do....grin.
Blessings,
Justin
To all concerned,
It is indeed sad when Christians act unbecoming. I hope and pray the Scripture references below will pave the way for understanding the topic at hand.
Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
Luke 21:7-8
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Luke 11:29-30
29 ¶ And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
Interpretations
Luke 21:8, has come to fruition since the Bible was completed back there some 2,000 years ago up to the present.
In Luke 11:29, the term “generation” does not have the same meaning as in Matthew Chapter One. The term “evil generation” is the whole period of the New Testament Era Luke 21:32.
Verse 30, “for as Jonah was three days in the belly of the fish,” and was a sign to the Ninevites, so was Jesus three days in the heart of the earth and was a sign to His generation. Both stories are a parable with spiritual meaning.
I Corinthians 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe (true believers), but to them that believe not: (unbelievers), but prophesying (witnessing or declaring word of God) serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
So there it is. Signs, as in miracles, are for unbelievers!
It is indeed sad when Christians act unbecoming. I hope and pray the Scripture references below will pave the way for understanding the topic at hand.
Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
Luke 21:7-8
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Luke 11:29-30
29 ¶ And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
Interpretations
Luke 21:8, has come to fruition since the Bible was completed back there some 2,000 years ago up to the present.
In Luke 11:29, the term “generation” does not have the same meaning as in Matthew Chapter One. The term “evil generation” is the whole period of the New Testament Era Luke 21:32.
Verse 30, “for as Jonah was three days in the belly of the fish,” and was a sign to the Ninevites, so was Jesus three days in the heart of the earth and was a sign to His generation. Both stories are a parable with spiritual meaning.
I Corinthians 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe (true believers), but to them that believe not: (unbelievers), but prophesying (witnessing or declaring word of God) serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
So there it is. Signs, as in miracles, are for unbelievers!
12 Then he prayed, “Lord, God of my master Abraham, make me successful today, and show kindness to my master Abraham. 13 See, I am standing beside this spring, and the daughters of the townspeople are coming out to draw water. 14 May it be that when I say to a young woman, ‘Please let down your jar that I may have a drink,’ and she says, ‘Drink, and I’ll water your camels too’—let her be the one you have chosen for your servant Isaac. By this I will know that you have shown kindness to my master.”In Christ said:
15 Before he had finished praying, Rebekah came out with her jar on her shoulder. She was the daughter of Bethuel son of Milkah, who was the wife of Abraham’s brother Nahor. 16 The woman was very beautiful, a virgin; no man had ever slept with her. She went down to the spring, filled her jar and came up again.
17 The servant hurried to meet her and said, “Please give me a little water from your jar.”
18 “Drink, my lord,” she said, and quickly lowered the jar to her hands and gave him a drink.
Genesis 24 NIV
So Abraham's servant was being evil, and/or an unbeliever when he asked God for a sign ? And why would God answer if it was wrong ?
I believe in asking God for signs. And I never will stop asking Him for them. For He usually is moved by my requests and responds. Yes, He cares that much about me.... Hard to believe huh ?
Love,
laid renard
God Bless
Oh gee whiz. Why is it so hard for some to step back and just take a look at what is actually written. Why get on your own personal hobby horse and try to run over another
Christian with it?
Yes, the servant of Abraham asked for a sign, but Jesus also stated that a wicked and adulterous generation ask for signs.
UNBELIEVERS want signs....do you have the Holy Spirit indwelling you? (general question, I'm not picking on anyone folks) then you don't need a sign. The Holy
Spirit did not indwell believers back then as He does now.
This thread, is not about signs...it's about the Tabernacle Experience a la Justin.
I believe in asking God for signs. And I never will stop asking Him for them. For He usually is moved by my requests and responds. Yes, He cares that much about me.... Hard to believe huh ?
Well that's great. As long as you understand that the NT requires faith for those who come before God. You know, I've read several of your posts in which you are asking for
help so I'm sorry, not to chastise you or hurt you in anyway, you have seemed rather at your wit's end, so why do you throw out a challenge like this?
This thread is not even about that...but I will grow old stating that as it seems some cannot read for themself what Justin is actually saying here.
I am not picking on you, but we all need to follow what is written and not signs or feelings.
We need to take the warnings about deception seriously because Christians are the ones the devil hates and wants to cause to fall away and according
to Jesus, many will fall away.
Take heed it is not you....again, no one in particular just each and everyone as this is what scripture states.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! I Cor. 10:12
Christian with it?
Yes, the servant of Abraham asked for a sign, but Jesus also stated that a wicked and adulterous generation ask for signs.
UNBELIEVERS want signs....do you have the Holy Spirit indwelling you? (general question, I'm not picking on anyone folks) then you don't need a sign. The Holy
Spirit did not indwell believers back then as He does now.
This thread, is not about signs...it's about the Tabernacle Experience a la Justin.
I believe in asking God for signs. And I never will stop asking Him for them. For He usually is moved by my requests and responds. Yes, He cares that much about me.... Hard to believe huh ?
Well that's great. As long as you understand that the NT requires faith for those who come before God. You know, I've read several of your posts in which you are asking for
help so I'm sorry, not to chastise you or hurt you in anyway, you have seemed rather at your wit's end, so why do you throw out a challenge like this?
This thread is not even about that...but I will grow old stating that as it seems some cannot read for themself what Justin is actually saying here.
I am not picking on you, but we all need to follow what is written and not signs or feelings.
We need to take the warnings about deception seriously because Christians are the ones the devil hates and wants to cause to fall away and according
to Jesus, many will fall away.
Take heed it is not you....again, no one in particular just each and everyone as this is what scripture states.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! I Cor. 10:12
Nikki,Niki said:
You said, “The Holy Spirit did not indwell believers back then as He does today.”
I say this kindly, but I believe you are wrong. Psalm 51:11-12 reads:
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
The texts above was a prayer by King David. However, I thank you for pointing me to the direction that the OP was about the Tabernacle Experience a la Justin, meaning, as Justin put it, a “personal revelation,” (instead of “signs” as in miracles), as Adam had experienced verbal communications with God at the Garden of Eden.
Justin,
If the above is true and that Nikki is correct, then I do have concerns.
In the old testament and before the Bible was completed, God was still bringing revelations through dreams and visions, angel visitations, and so forth. But once the Bible was completed, there was no possibility of these happening ever again. We have now the completed revelations from God written for us in the Bible. Revelation 22:18-19 reads:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book (Bible), If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues (eternal damnation) that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Words in parenthesis are mine.
Some would argue, “wait a minute, how do you know the book refers to the Bible?” Well, if we take a chapter or verse from the book of Revelation, have we taken it out from the Bible, and if we added a chapter or verse to the book of Revelation, have we added it to the Bible? Most definitely! Can the book of Revelation stand on its own apart from the Bible? No, the Bible is one cohesive whole.
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