Signs

[Niki]

Hi In Christ

Thanks for your response. The Holy Spirit did not indwell believers in the OT as He does now. The verse you quoted does not illustrate that He did either.

That verse also speaks of salvation, yet, we know Christ had not yet died...so even though both were true then, and are now, there is a difference.

There were no gifts as there as we see in the NT...for the edification of believers...rather, we see one prophet and in the NT, the spirits of the prophets are subject
to the prophets and the gift is to be exercised in more than one for the body corporate. (that is just one example)

Yes...the Holy Spirit most certainly rested on some individuals or worked through them...but not as today as Pentecost had not occured and so on.

Yes, if you read further back you will note where Justin refers to the experience I have mentioned and if you follow the link for his site, you will read a whole lot more

I do not say I disagree with everything he posts. I am saying there is a mix of truth and error...a very dangerous thing, in some ways more so than error alone.

However, I am not using Revelation for my text to make that point. I am making that point regarding how the Holy Spirit works and a working experience with
false teaching.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

I have been reading through some of the posts that are against signs and I really don't know how to help you see how revelation still plays a central role in our understanding of God in our times. I am coming to the conclusion that unless people are seeking the truth they cannot receive it.

Do you know why Jesus said that an evil and adulterous generation sought after a sign? It is because God manifest in the flesh was clearly standing before them yet they would not receive Him. Seeking after a sign was blatant unbelief.

However, seeking after direct experience with God is something all together different. It is simply wanting to be near God, in His presence like David did when he worshiped before the ark of the covenant. It is not preferred to read about God when you have an opportunity to be with God. It is like a lover preferring love letters over being with their lover.

Perhaps we are further into apostasy than I have previously though and the resistance to the Holy Spirit is so intense because the spirit of antichrist is stronger than suspected. I don't know for sure.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Niki]

What sign are you referring to Aren't you talking about the Tabernacle Experience? That is what you state some posts further back.

The Bible clearly states that signs are for unbelievers. There are plenty of Christians who are constantly trying to 'prove' God. Those, are Christians who walk
by sight...many fall away from the faith because God did not 'come through' for them because they had the wrong perception on how God works and got
themselves involved in a ministry that walks outside of the written word.

You actually use the word apostasy in reference to those who object to your actual purpose here? Seriously? I apply that word to your extra-biblical experience.

Jesus perfomed many signs and miracles and even then He was crucified. The Israelites wandered 40 years in the wilderness because they forgot all the signs
and miracles performed on their behalf to secure their release from bondage in Egypt.

Any ministry that puts the emphasis on signs and miracles is in deep error.

Do you know why Jesus said that an evil and adulterous generation sought after a sign? It is because God manifest in the flesh was clearly standing before them yet they would not receive Him. Seeking after a sign was blatant unbelief.

However, seeking after direct experience with God is something all together different. It is simply wanting to be near God, in His presence like David did when he worshiped before the ark of the covenant. It is not preferred to read about God when you have an opportunity to be with God. It is like a lover preferring love letters over being with their lover.

I guess you do not see the irony in what you wrote. It was wrong for God's chosen people to seek a sign but it is Ok for you. Your motives are OK, but those who had been waiting
for hundreds of years for the Christ were adulterous.

The ark of God was never to be touched and someone died trying to prevent it from falling. You are on very dangerous ground and so is anyone else who tries to touch
God through a fleshly experience. What you propose is not of God.

I have experienced many things myself...some things were not of God..the ridiculous contrast you have drawn between adulterous sign seeking and you seeking an experience
is plain for anyone to see who understands what is really going on here.

 

[Wormwood]

Dear All,

I have been reading through some of the posts that are against signs and I really don't know how to help you see how revelation still plays a central role in our understanding of God in our times. I am coming to the conclusion that unless people are seeking the truth they cannot receive it.

Do you know why Jesus said that an evil and adulterous generation sought after a sign? It is because God manifest in the flesh was clearly standing before them yet they would not receive Him. Seeking after a sign was blatant unbelief.

However, seeking after direct experience with God is something all together different. It is simply wanting to be near God, in His presence like David did when he worshiped before the ark of the covenant. It is not preferred to read about God when you have an opportunity to be with God. It is like a lover preferring love letters over being with their lover.

Perhaps we are further into apostasy than I have previously though and the resistance to the Holy Spirit is so intense because the spirit of antichrist is stronger than suspected. I don't know for sure.

Blessings,

Justin

Justin,

We all want to know God deeply and intimately. Just because some do not think Tabernacle experiences or whatever else are necessary to have that deep and intimate relationship with God does not mean they are antichrists. Again, you are taking that Scripture out of context as it is not a verse that is about seeking or being validated by personal experiences. To force one's experiences or understanding on everyone else as the only legitimate means of knowing God is narrow and harsh...not to mention calling them antichrists if they are in disagreement. We should consider others before ourselves and stay away from such judgments and accusations. It frightens me to think that unbelievers can read these dialogues and see how Christians malign, accuse and condemn each other with regards to their knowledge of God in Christ.

 

[Niki]

Some people in Christianity today despise people who look for signs of life as those who are somehow weak and not able to live by faith. To some being able to live without signs is considered a higher form of true Christianity. They do not need to speak in tongues nor believe in a rapture. They do not need emotional experiences. In fact the less signs they have the more they believe they are walking strong in God.

The above is from the op.

I don't know who you are talking about...these some people in Christianity...many people call themselves Christian simply because they darken the door of a church on Sunday morning.

I do not know anyone who actually IS a Christian who does not believe in the rapture even though there is disagreement as to whether or not it is pre, during or post trib.

No one needs to speak in tongues...that is not salvation. Experiences and signs are not salvation.

You use the word despise in a way that suggests that those who do not speak in tongues or have visions are hateful people...yet who is hateful to suggest that those who simply
believe the Bible and live a life of regard for their Savior are the hateful ones? You almost sound like you are sneering at anyone who does not live up to your expectation
of holiness or visionary.

Before you try to slice me off at the knees as one of those haters of all things supernatural, for the record, I am spirit-filled and I speak in tongues and have had quote unquote
experiences and I have sought God to know Him as He truly is and not as people represent or misrepresent Him. And THAT is why I take personal exception to your biased
and un-Christian tones and the way you put people down if they do not agree with you.

God is patient, kind and loving. He does not have the same road for everyone to walk on yet He gives the same salvation to everyone who calls upon His Name.

From where I stand, you do not know God at all if you persist in putting other Christians down because, according to YOU, they have not fulfilled what YOU PERSONALLY
seek after.

Seek all the experiences you want and that your heart lusts after. God states that we will find Him when we seek after HIM...HIM, not some subjective experience that people
who judge others by the inconsistency of personal interpretation are prone to consider as validation of a heart that yearns for God.

Your op smacks of disregard for others and shows ignorance of the word...which is, I guess,is to be expected when one chucks it out the window in pursuit of yet another goosebump
because the last one has worn off.

The truth is that we are all mixed up about a great many things in Christianity. In our hearts we want to serve God but we just don’t know how to properly go about it. This is why we desperately need to live by revelation for only in that way can our Father teach us what we really need to know. We need clarity more than conformity. Only through obtaining His perspective can we possibly change our perspective.

No.

That is not the truth.

That, is simply your personal perspective because a person seeking experience above the truth is without a road map and has no moorings.

You cannot obtain God's perspective other than what He has already given. You are simply someone else who once having accepted the truth,
has taken things into their own hands and modified the objective to justify their subjective.

You easily slip into name calling, such as anti-Christ, and in fact, you made the statement that you do not recognize the spirit I represent. That, I guess, is how far from
the truth you have fallen because any other Christian knowing the word, having the spirit of God within them, can easily recognize that I serve God
and believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and there is no other.

In conclusion, signs are indicators that God is present and we should welcome them into our lives and into our churches. Jesus said that He came to bring us life and life more abundantly therefore when He is present there will be signs of life. Let no one intimidate us into thinking that we should not want to see and experience such signs for to be with God is the goal we all hope for and share.

Your advice above sounds more like 'let's all throw caution to the wind and have a good time and anything goes...it must all be from God because we are Christians after all"

Are you deliberately trying to deceive or is that a side effect of your experiences? The life Jesus is speaking of is not a sign. You are actually stating, in the quote above,
that seeking signs and having an experience creates 'being with God' and is the goal we all hope for and share? We shall be with God through our experience? That, sounds
mystical and very un-Christian.

Actually, I am not going to let people who talk like you do intimidate me into denying the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and rejecting totally and with good conscience the
NOT Holy Spirit experience you espouse.

As I have already stated I do not deny the existence of the supernatural and God's right to bestow such upon whom He will, I doubt that your slanderous attempt to create a false
picture of me will have any effect. What I am against, are the teachings of demonic spirits through deceived individuals who wish to validate their experience by creating it
anew in folk who are ignorant of the scripture or young in the faith and without teaching regarding what can happen when you launch yourself into the unknown while claiming
it's a 'god thing'. It's a thing all right.

We have entered into a time of strong delusion.

At last something I can agree with.

 

[7angels]

signsaccording to the new testament have not gone away but are used differently then in the old testament. according to the new testament signs are now used to confirm that what is said about the good news is true.

God bless

 

[Rex]

It frightens me to think that unbelievers can read these dialogues and see how Christians malign, accuse and condemn each other with regards to their knowledge of God in Christ.

And that my friend is why these forums and religious centers "churches" are completely over run with every kind nut and some that haven't been classified yet.

Did you know that tares and wheat are almost impossible to tell apart from one another until they mature. To the non-farmers, knowing this difference wouldn't be so easy to decipher. In truth they all look the same viewing it with the naked eye. Same for some of the women and men in the church. From the distance and even close up, everyone looks like wheat. Some having the form of Godliness, but deny the power thereof. They look like they are saved, sanctified, and Holy Ghost filled until they reach the threshing floor.... Matthew 13:28-30

Now this parable doesn't mean we are to be ignorant of the fact, or to not draw attention to the imposters.
Something else I learned about tares, is to make certain you never allow them in the wheat if your going to bake bread and eat it, their toxic

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition 2000 defines "soporific: as:
ADJECTIVE: 1. Inducing or tending to induce sleep. 2. Drowsy.
NOUN: A drug or other substance that induces sleep; a hypnotic.
"darnel" (Lolium temulentum). . . . The grains of the L. temulentum, if eaten, produce convulsions, and even death."

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/tares.html

Holman's Bible Dictionary defines TARES as follows:
"TARES KJV term for grassy weeds resembling wheat, generally identified as darnel (genus Lolium)"
It is pretty much accepted today that the tares Jesus spoke of are darnel of the genus Lolium. Cephalaria syriaca is also a possibility mentioned by some researchers, but based on archeological studies, its evident lack in Biblical times would seem to indicate it is not the tare of the Bible. Secular dictionaries also define the tare as most likely being darnel:
"Darnel is a weed grass (probably bearded darnel or Lolium temulentum) that looks very much like wheat until it is mature, when the seeds reveal a great difference. Darnel seeds aren't good for much except as chicken feed or to burn to prevent the spread of this weed" (World English Dictionary).

Easton's Bible Dictionary describes "tares" as follows:
"the bearded darnel, mentioned only in Matt. 13:25-30. It is the Lolium temulentum, a species of rye-grass, the seeds of which are a strong soporific poison. It bears the closest resemblance to wheat till the ear appears, and only then the difference is discovered. It grows plentifully in Syria and Palestine."

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition 2000 defines "soporific: as:
ADJECTIVE: 1. Inducing or tending to induce sleep. 2. Drowsy.
NOUN: A drug or other substance that induces sleep; a hypnotic.
Smith's Bible Dictionary offers these comments on the "tares":

"There can be little doubt that the zizania of the parable, #Mt 13:25 denotes the weed called "darnel" (Lolium temulentum). . . . The grains of the L. temulentum, if eaten, produce convulsions, and even death."

A very interesting note I found on Botanical.com concerning darnel was this:
"The admixture of the grain with those of the nutritious cereals amongst which it is often found growing should be guarded against, as its properties are generally regarded as deleterious. Gerard tells us: 'the new bread wherein Darnel is eaten hot causeth drunkenness.' When Darnel has been given medicinally in a harmful quantity, it is recorded to have produced all the symptoms of drunkenness: a general trembling, followed by inability to walk, hindered speech and vomiting. For this reason the French call Darnel: 'Ivraie,' from Ivre (drunkenness); the word Darnel is itself of French origin and testifies to its intoxicating qualities, being derived from an old French word Darne, signifying stupefied. The ancients supposed it to cause blindness, hence with the Romans, lolio victitare, to live on Darnel, was a phrase applied to a dim-sighted person.

The thing I like about online discussion is people are quick to fully express their option, that makes identifying tares much easier.

Say Niki I think 7Angels is a bit hurt, as well as the other charismatic medicine men here on this forum.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear W,

I notice, W, that sometimes you seem to interpret the things I say a bit differently than I intend. This may be my fault for not explaining what I mean thoroughly or perhaps it is that you assume a few things too. Maybe it is bit of both.

I was not saying that those who do not embrace the Tabernacle experience are antichrist but rather that those who fight against a direct experience with the Holy Spirit through revelation may be influenced more by the spirit of antichrist than I thought. It makes no sense to me that people would discredited such experiences saying that knowing God through reading the word is preferred. Actually, both are profitable. I think what you and others may object to the notion that you cannot know God fully without His word being revealed to you. I think you may like to believe that you can know God under you own steam through your own intellect. I don't know. From where I stand what you and others say makes little sense and that is why I am wondering if this is an effect of the spirit of antichrist or strong delusion that is beginning to deceive people in our age.

However, whatever I say there will be those who object. That is to be expected. At least, thank God, people cannot burn their brethren at the stake these days. All we can do is put whatever truth God has revealed to us out there and let people decided for themselves. The great apostasy is a function of the tail of the beast and not due to his teeth even it is appears so. That is, people are not going to see it coming. People are going to be deceived into fighting against God and accepting an "instead of Christ." When people fight against a return to a life lived through revelation they choose to hug the tree of the knowledge of good and evil tighter. This is why the Devil is going to be able to deceive them. The only way that we will be able to fight against the great deception is through trusting what the Holy Spirit says more than what we think...because what we think will be influenced by the darkness that thought to be light.

The truth is that the tabernacle experience is the next big thing and it will be embraced by many and rejected by many. Those who rejected will think that treated their brethren badly is in fact doing God a favor. There is nothing new under the sun. For me, I am committed to sharing this revelation with as many as I can in hopes that those who are seeking more of God will have an opportunity to embrace this wonderful experience in Him as I do. People railed against salvation but could not stop it. People railed against speaking in tongues but could not stop it. People will do the same with this but ultimately they will be powerless to halt the hunger and thirsty from this good gift of God too.

One last point: is it even remotely Christ like to be nasty to people? I cannot even read Nikki's replies any longer because of the negative spirit that comes through them. If you wish to disagree with someone at least do it with a modicum of decorum.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

The truth is that the tabernacle experience is the next big thing

The result of being drunk by mixing tares with your bread. 1 Col 2:18-19 ........ 1 Col 2:18-19 KJV

The last thing we need is another religion or church of Justin 1 Cor 4:6
1 Col 2:8-10

 

[Niki]

signsaccording to the new testament have not gone away but are used differently then in the old testament. according to the new testament signs are now used to confirm that what is said about the good news is true.

God bless

No they have not gone away. The Bible says that THESE signs will follow those who believe...the list is in the Bible. So I agree with yr statement but the offering
made in this thread is not about those signs. It is about seeking experiences rather than seeking the One who gives them.

And, telling everyone else IT...the so called Tabernacle experience...is the next big thing. Who needs the second coming when you can have a magic shroom ride.

The thing I like about online discussion is people are quick to fully express their option, that makes identifying tares much easier.

Say Niki I think 7Angels is a bit hurt, as well as the other charismatic medicine men here on this forum.

Well, he does have a point.....but that point for me only covers what is ALREADY in the Bible. These new apostles and prophets of deception have left The Way...
When I first began using "Christian" forums, I was aghast. No really. Finally I came to the conclusion that what we actually see, is a lovely cross-section of
what people naming themselves as believers actually believe.

After that, I came to the conclusion that referencing that same exposed and painful and shocking rather large segment, explained why many churches in Christendom
are sporting "Ichabod" over the front door.

One last point: is it even remotely Christ like to be nasty to people? I cannot even read Nikki's replies any longer because of the negative spirit that comes through them. If you wish to disagree with someone at least do it with a modicum of decorum.

Well, you did say you don't recognize my 'spirit'...I do recognize yours though which I know, is why you have difficulty reading my posts. I realize that as I am a TRUE student
of the Bible and Jesus really and truly is my Savior, that realizing I cannot be manipulated or have doubt cast on my solid foundation, you choose rather to attempt to
create a well rehearsed disdain for all my cautionary remarks by dismissing them as to difficult to read, that in turn actually meaning you think I am inspired by the devil
and attacking your precious experience.

Well, Jesus was called a devil too so I guess I am in good company and your attacks are to be expected. After all, if anyone should actually turn from your error and repent
and go back to the Truth, they might expose the lie better, having been in the womb of the deception you wish to give birth to.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear Niki,

I realize that your zeal comes from a heart to want to serve God but I think that, at least, some of it is not according to knowledge. I don't know how long you have been a believer but it is not nessesary to castigate others who believe differently in order to get your point heard. I know that it is sometimes difficult not to get angry or upset when others do not seem to believe correctly but it matters a great deal how you go about talking to them if you want to change their viewpoint. Our goal should be to change their minds through the truth of our position and being fully convinced of this themselves for their benifit. When you down other people it puts in place additional road blocks to them seeing your point of view. If your goal is simply to discredit and destroy others who do not hold the same perspective as yourself then that is unprofitable for all.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Niki]

I thought you couldn't read my posts anymore? :unsure:

False doctrine will destroy faster than anything I know.

False accusation is not nice either. The only thing I negate on this thread is your preference for personal revelation OUTSIDE of the Bible and
your false advertisng.

You are defending the extra biblical experience called The Tabernacle experience.

I find strong similarities between what you describe and Hasidic mysticism. As Solomon once said, all the rivers run into the sea yet the sea is not full

There is nothing new under the sun.

The Bible is written so that we might know God and the One He sent. It really is not mysterious at all. We know God by His Spirit.,...the problem you are
having with me Justin is that you cannot refute anything I say as it is all in keeping with the Word we have had revealed already. There is plenty of
room in there for each and everyone to know God as much as we can in this earthly frame.

You cannot refute the truth with subjective experience, even if you give it a fancy name like the Tabernacle experience. Some old Jewish guys already beat you to it.

False doctrine cannot be discredited. A subjective experience is not credible by the simple fact that no one but the person having it can vouch for it.

That is why we are told not to seek out such things. Your experience is your experience. However, I can share the gospel any time I want and the
Holy Spirit will back it up because it is objective.

This is not personal even though you would very much like to make it so...another earmark of the experience seeker.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

There seems to be a very bad spirit that has infused some who preach Christianity. This spirit does not like the Holy Spirit and in fact fights against Him. In reality the Holy Spirit is the part of God who is front and center in our present church age and to fight against Him is to fight God Himself. People fight the Holy Spirit by rejecting Him when He comes to them. They do this by holding on to their doctrine rather than allowing God to lead and guide them. This is a shame and a heresy that needs to be rooted out of those who truly want to progress on to the fullness and stature of Christ.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

People fight the Holy Spirit by rejecting Him when He comes to them. They do this by holding on to their doctrine rather than allowing God to lead and guide them. This is a shame and a heresy that needs to be rooted out of those who truly want to progress on to the fullness and stature of Christ.

This implies a false dichotomy: that holding fast sound doctrine and GOD's leading/guidance are mutually exclusive.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear C,

Of course I am speaking about false doctrine. Do I have to really spell ever little nuance out for people or can we just deal with the question at hand.

Sincerely,

Justin

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Of course I am speaking about false doctrine. Do I have to really spell ever little nuance out for people or can we just deal with the question at hand.

There is too much ambiguity on your part. I have noticed that characteristic about people who endorse experience over doctrine. Don't assume that I or others know, or should know, what you're talking about. You're the teacher... teach clearly.

 

[Niki]

Dear All,

There seems to be a very bad spirit that has infused some who preach Christianity. This spirit does not like the Holy Spirit and in fact fights against Him. In reality the Holy Spirit is the part of God who is front and center in our present church age and to fight against Him is to fight God Himself. People fight the Holy Spirit by rejecting Him when He comes to them. They do this by holding on to their doctrine rather than allowing God to lead and guide them. This is a shame and a heresy that needs to be rooted out of those who truly want to progress on to the fullness and stature of Christ.

Blessings,

Justin

Actually Justin, the Holy Spirit makes those who practice and live in the truth aware of the false. In fact, discerning of spirits is a God given gift BY the Holy Spirit and He gives
it to whom He will. We can further hone that gift through experience and study....but the actual gift, has a spiritual factor that the flesh does not have. It is a little like radar
and unless one has it, it can be difficult to describe other than in saying you just know. However, with some maturity comes the knowledge of how to NOT use this gift and
one sure way to tell the false from the true, is that the false ALWAYS is happy to point a finger and make statements that are vague while the genuine will know and step
in and clearly point out the error. The genuine ALWAYS operated within the confines of the Bible. It is not weird and does not make false accusation. That gift knows
that God sees what is going on and has made the bearer of said gift aware so that prayer and perhaps even spiritual warfare against evil spirits can occur so that
the captives of the false can be set free.

The gifts are ALWAYS for the edification of the Body...wherever and whoever they may be...even on a board like this.

People fight the Holy Spirit by rejecting Him when He comes to them. They do this by holding on to their doctrine rather than allowing God to lead and guide them. This is a shame and a heresy that needs to be rooted out of those who truly want to progress on to the fullness and stature of Christ.

Who are all these people Justin? Don't you mean that some of us here are actually just rejecting YOUR version of the Holy Spirit? Isn't that what you REALLY mean?

That is actually quite healthy and shows respect for the written word over your personal agenda.

You just really can't address any scripture or what people actually say. That says more than if you actually did say something instead of making off the cuff
comments like your post that accuse rather than address anyone's concerns.

I realize it is because you cannot address them, but just the same............

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear C,

No, there is not too much ambiguity. There is just enough, no more, no less. One of the problems that some have is that they want the Christian walk to be spelled out for them in minute detail so it becomes a set of rules rather than a relationship. I am for relationship and so I will point out where to look and the general outline of what to look for but individuals, if they be so inclined, must go to God and, through the Holy Spirit, be led into whatever degree of truth that they desire. I am interested in others experiencing more of God for themselves. I am sure you agree with this.

The truth is that the analytics among us have had way to much sway in the church to the near exclusion of first person experience. Shame on them. I wish to bring more of a balanced approach to knowing God. We need to put the teachers back into their proper place under apostles and prophets so that they do not continue to destroy God's people. I am not against teaching but I am against teaching taking over the spiritual lead in Christianity. Once we begin to return to direct experience with God (as a people) then we can delve into the word to prove all things and hold fast that which is true. Right now, people are trying to furiously steer the sail boat thinking that the wind is optional. So, once the doctrinal hounds are put at bay then God can regain access to his people to a greater degree than He has now.

I am truly amazed at how deeply people are enamored of their doctrine, many times to the exclusion of God. In fact, many think their doctrine is tantamount to God and worship it above all compassion, reason, and revelation. Unfortunately, many cannot get beyond their dogma even if it makes them miserable. The truth is that doctrine was made for man and not man for doctrine. When doctrine becomes a cursing it is proper to examine it and see if it is correct. Yet many refuse to take stock of what they believe preferring rather to soldier on no matter who they tread underfoot.

Truly, there is always a remnant that moves on while the rest bleach their bones in the wilderness.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Justin,

I appreciate and respect what you are trying to accomplish, or facilitate. I think, though, that you are going about it the wrong way (at least from what I can see from this vantage point). I think you need an anchor of the core doctrines of the cross, the new covenant (a blood covenant which Africans should understand intrinsically to some degree), and love of the brethren. These are essential because the ultimate desired prize is not experiences with GOD in this world, but the resurrection out of the dead (which faith in these doctrines will accomplish). Hold fast to these things, and you will not be moved.

Apart from these things there should be liberty to allow the spirit to manifest itself as it sees fit. And it will if given the liberty to do so through faith. Faith comes through hearing the word of GOD because faith is being persuaded by what GOD says, putting confidence in his words, and trusting that he will bring to pass what he has said he will do.

That said, I think the assembling of believers should consist of reading the bible out loud, breaking bread, and prayer. All present should be allowed and encouraged to speak what's in their hearts. Leaders should correct and guide if necessary, but only if necessary to prevent falsehood from gaining a foothold and quenching the spirit. Their job should be to ensure that the core doctrines are taught and not deviated from, and that anything beyond this is not allowed to quench the spirit.

I think what you are revolting against is the lack of prioritization of doctrine that causes doctrine itself to become the focal point rather than GOD himself. Mental preoccupation with doctrine, and non-prioritization of doctrine that causes all doctrine to become rules instead of the witness of truth, does indeed quench the spirit.

 

[Wormwood]

Dear All,

It is OK by me for you to disagree about revelation. I know it is the normative thing to do....grin.

Blessings,

Justin

I simply disagree that you are the source of Gods revelation. You realize this statement suggests that your voice is equal to the voice of Scripture right?