Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Private. interpretation.. Catholic?
Anyway, You just further proved you teach a gospel of works. Thank you for helping my case against you
Sin Unto Death
- Thread starter soul man
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Anyway, You just further proved you teach a gospel of works. Thank you for helping my case against you
Thanks for affirming I teach the gospel of works of God.
Not the works of man.
Here is the unbiblical gospel, it's the false gospel that no works save us!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
so you changed your view about the requirement of baptism and obedience for salvation?
Tell God baptism is not His work, Colossians 2:12
Hebrews 5:8-9
Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
James 2:21-24;26
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar.
-24
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
-26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Faith without works is a dead faith.
Your faith and no works salvation is dead.
Only God justifies mankind.
No man can justify another man!
Romans 3:26
To demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
This faith is an obedient faith as Paul teaches.
Never does Paul use the word alone or only when he preaches on saving faith.
Paul preaches faith without obedience is of no profit.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision profits anything,
but faith working through love.
A faith with no obedience is a dead, loveless faith.
Obedient faith, is commandment keeping.
1John 3:23-24.
Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Cannot be made righteous if disobedient to His commandments.
Psalm 119:172
My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness.
Only faith that justifies and makes one righteous is an obedient faith.
Salvation is freely given when one believes and obeys God, by doing His will.
Faith, repentance, confession, immersion are all His works because He
Authorized them. None of these commandments came from the minds of men.
They all are from God.
Faith is a work of God.
When we obey His commandment to believe in Him.
We are working the works of God.
Never is faith a work of man.
Just as repentance, confession, immersion are not works of men.
John 6:28-29
Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said to them,
This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.
Faith is a direct commandment, 1John 3:23-24.
We are therefore commanded to work the works of God.
Any gospel that teaches we do not obey God to be saved.
Is a gospel of salvation through disobedience, unrighteousness,
unjustified, dead faith.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Spirit baptism is not a work.
Water baptism is
You want to replace the work of God with the work of men, thats your perogative
But God will not accept it..
All I see in this post is work work work.
I see no Christ in this passage.
When are you going to focus on christ and not all the works you do.
O, I see you still don't have any friends that are Greek Scholars.
I already told you to contact Greek scholars and ask them what baptism is Colossians 2:12.
It is baptizo, water!
You have two baptisms in your doctrine!
Paul teaches in Jesus' gospel there is only one!
Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism.
You have two too many.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Actually. Your the one who needs to find some greek scholars
Baptizo (greek) means to immerse, to plunge to overwhelm. Water is not even part of it.
You also have a serious issue. In that this baptism is the circumcision performed by the hands of God not the hand of men. which is accomplish through baptism BY THE ONE WHO RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD
that is spirit baptism my friend, Not water.
actually there are many baptisms..
There was the baptism of Christ
There was the baptism of John the baptist
There is being baptized with the cup Jesus was baptized with
There was a baptism into Moses..
There is water baptism
and there is spirit baptism
Paul is correct. There is only one baptism that matters.
Water baptism is not it.
You asked me to prove you taught works, I think we have well established that you teach works..
The jews taught circumcision (physical)
You teach baptism (physical)
both parties deny and ignore the circumcision/baptism performed by God himself.
Apparently you know the Greek better than Thayer,
baptizo: to dip, pludge into a liquid.
Now give me one verse where Holy Spirit baptism is commanded by Jesus?
Only water baptism is commanded!
Commanded by Jesus, Mark 16:15-16
Commanded by Peter, Acts 10:45 ; 47-48
Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord,
Which baptism is done from a man to a man?
Answer water baptism!
Therefore which baptism did Cornelius receive that is the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ?
Answer, water baptism.
Which baptism did Cornelius receive that Paul said is the one baptism in Jesus' gospel,
Ephesians 4:5 baptizo, water baptism.
What is the Greek word for the Holy Spirit baptism the apostles received in Acts chapter 2?
Heres some help, it wasn't baptizo!
Which baptism does Jesus command men to perform on other men in His gospel?
Baptizo, water immersion.
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Men commanded to baptize other men!
That is how water baptism is done.
Simple fact in the new testament to distinguish water baptism from Holy Spirit baptism.
Only Jesus Holy Spirit baptizes the individual directly!
Man water baptizes other men.
Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water, but you(apostles) shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
John 1:33-34
I did not know Him(Jesus)
But He whn sent me, Upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining on Him[Mark 1:9-11],
This is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
-34
And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.
Only Jesus Christ baptized others with the Holy Spirit!
Now this proves Matthew 28:19
is water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
The baptism in Jesus' gospel is commanded to be done by men.
That one baptism in His gospel is water!
Acts 8:37-38
Then Philip said, If you believe with all your heart you may.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
So he commanded the chariot to stand still.
And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and he baptized him.
Paul was water baptized by Ananias when Paul was taught the gospel of Jesus.
Paul said his water baptism washed away His sins.
Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting?
Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Paul was still in his sins when he believed in Jesus,
Acts 9:6
Yet, Jesus commands Paul to be taught the gospel by the preacher Ananias and to be water baptized by him.
Just as Jesus commands for salvation in Mark 16:15-16.
No Holy Spirit baptism ever was for the forgiveness of sins,
Acts 2:38-39
baptizo: to dip, pludge into a liquid.
Now give me one verse where Holy Spirit baptism is commanded by Jesus?
Only water baptism is commanded!
Commanded by Jesus, Mark 16:15-16
Commanded by Peter, Acts 10:45 ; 47-48
Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord,
Which baptism is done from a man to a man?
Answer water baptism!
Therefore which baptism did Cornelius receive that is the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ?
Answer, water baptism.
Which baptism did Cornelius receive that Paul said is the one baptism in Jesus' gospel,
Ephesians 4:5 baptizo, water baptism.
What is the Greek word for the Holy Spirit baptism the apostles received in Acts chapter 2?
Heres some help, it wasn't baptizo!
Which baptism does Jesus command men to perform on other men in His gospel?
Baptizo, water immersion.
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Men commanded to baptize other men!
That is how water baptism is done.
Simple fact in the new testament to distinguish water baptism from Holy Spirit baptism.
Only Jesus Holy Spirit baptizes the individual directly!
Man water baptizes other men.
Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water, but you(apostles) shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
John 1:33-34
I did not know Him(Jesus)
But He whn sent me, Upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining on Him[Mark 1:9-11],
This is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
-34
And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.
Only Jesus Christ baptized others with the Holy Spirit!
Now this proves Matthew 28:19
is water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
The baptism in Jesus' gospel is commanded to be done by men.
That one baptism in His gospel is water!
Acts 8:37-38
Then Philip said, If you believe with all your heart you may.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
So he commanded the chariot to stand still.
And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and he baptized him.
Paul was water baptized by Ananias when Paul was taught the gospel of Jesus.
Paul said his water baptism washed away His sins.
Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting?
Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Paul was still in his sins when he believed in Jesus,
Acts 9:6
Yet, Jesus commands Paul to be taught the gospel by the preacher Ananias and to be water baptized by him.
Just as Jesus commands for salvation in Mark 16:15-16.
No Holy Spirit baptism ever was for the forgiveness of sins,
Acts 2:38-39
Last edited:
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Lol
Dip is the greek word Bapto. Rev says jesus will come with his robes dipped in blood
And by the way, If your going to quote someone. Quote everything they say
I. 1. prop. to dip repeatedly, to immerge, submerge, (of vessels sunk, Polyb. 1, 51, 6; 8, 8, 4; of animals, Diod. 1, 36).
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water; in the mid. and the 1 aor. pass. to wash one’s self, bathe; so Mk. 7:4 [where WH txt. ῥαντίσωνται]; Lk. 11:38, (2 K. 5:14 ἐβαπτίσατο ἐν τῷ Ἰορδάνῃ, for טָבַל; Sir. 31 (34):30; Judith 12:7).
3. metaph. to overwhelm, as ἰδιώτας ταῖς εἰσφοραῖς, Diod. 1, 73; ὀφλήμασι, Plut. Galba 21; τῇ συμφορᾷ βεβαπτισμένος, Heliod. Aeth. 2, 3; and alone, to inflict great and abounding calamities on one: ἐβάπτισαν τὴν πόλιν, Joseph. b. j. 4, 3, 3; ἡ ἀνομία με βαπτίζει, Is. 21:4 Sept.; hence βαπτίζεσθαι βάπτισμα (cf. W. 225 (211); [B. 148 (129)]; cf. λούεσθαι τὸ λουτρόν, Ael. de nat. an. 3, 42), to be overwhelmed with calamities, of those who must bear them, Mt. 20:22 sq. Rec.; Mk. 10:38 sq.; Lk. 12:50, (cf. the Germ. etwas auszubaden haben, and the use of the word e. g. respecting those who cross a river with difficulty, ἕως τῶν μαστῶν οἱ πεζοὶ βαπτιζόμενοι διέβαινον, Polyb. 3, 72, 4; [for exx. see Soph. Lex. s. v.; also T. J. Conant, Baptizein, its meaning and use, N. Y. 1864 (printed also as an App. to their revised version of the Gosp. of Mt. by the “Am. Bible Union”); and esp. four works by J. W. Dale entitled Classic, Judaie, Johannie, Christie, Baptism, Phil. 1867 sqq.; D. B. Ford, Studies on the Bapt. Quest. (including a review of Dr. Dale’s works), Bost. 1879]).
Rom 6, or do you know know that we were baptised (immerse- paced into) Christ.
No water is used here, it is a verb, or action. The substance into which we are baptized into is christ (It also says we were submerged, immersed, placed into his death)
You add what’re where there is no water.
You preach works. You keep proving it every time you post. You should stop..
You only prove you are not a Greek scholar.
Now prove your position that Colossians 2:12 is Holy Spirit baptism!
You will not contact Greek scholars to affirm your position because you are not interested in truth.
I have friends that have contacted multiple Greek scholars on the word baptizo.
This is the word used in Colossians 2:12.
All of the Greek scholars wrote back and confirmed it is water immersion!
So, keep following your churches doctrine.
Unless you want to know the trurh, 2Timothy 2:15!
Quote from
1890 Edition standard manual for Baptist churches,
Edward T. Hiscox, DD.
Page 66
Quote from Thayer!!!!
"Greek lexicographer, as translated and edited by professor Thayer, of Harvard University, thus defines baptizo:
1) To dip repeatedly, to immerse, submerge.
2) To cleanse by dipping or submerging
3) To overwhelm."
Thayer goes on,
"The noun baptisma, the only other word used in the new testament to denote the rite, Grimm-Thayer thus defined: A word peculiar to the new testament and ecclesiastical writers; used
1) of John's baptism
2) of Christian baptism
This, according to the view of the Apostles, is a rite of sacred immersion commanded by Christ."
That is right out of the Baptist manual 1890 edition.
Now tell me again,
You know better than Thayer!
WRITE TO GREEK SCHOLARS ETERNALLY GRATEFUL AND FIND THE TRUTH!
Colossians 2:12
Buried with Him in baptism(baptizo, water) in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God who raised Him from the dead.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
baptó G911 [to dip]
baptizó G907 [to baptize]
baptismos G909 [baptizing]
baptisma G908 [baptism]
baptistés G910 [Baptist, Baptizer]
A. The Meaning of bapto and baptizo. bapto, "to dip in or under," "to dye," "to immerse," "to sink," "to drown," "to bathe," "wash." The NT uses bapto only in the literal sense, e.g., "to dip" (Luk_16:24), "to dye" (Rev_19:13), and baptizo only in a cultic sense, mostly "to baptize."
B. Religious Washings in Hellenism.
1. The General Facts. Sacral baths are found in the Eleusinian cults, in Egyptian religion, in Isis worship, and in the mysteries. Baptisms of blood are post-Christian.
2. baptizein in Sacral and Similar Contexts. This usage is rare; it may be found in some papyri, Plutarch, and the Hermetic writings, but not in any technical sense.
3. The Meaning of the Rites. One underlying theme is that of washing and cleansing. Various liquids, including water, may be used to wash away uncleanness before God. Water, however, gives life, and hence another theme is vivification by way of symbolic drowning, e.g., in the Nile; the drowning connects one who drowns with the god and thus confers divinity. Yet the idea of purification is predominant, though this is cultic, not moral, and thus comes under criticism, e.g., from Plato, Philo, and Josephus. It must be stressed, of course, that the term baptizein itself has no great cultic significance.
C. baptizein in the OT and Judaism. In the LXX baptein (baptizein occurs only in 2Ki 5:14) is used for "to dip" in Jdg_2:14; Joh_3:15; Lev_4:6; Lev_11:32. Naaman's baptizein becomes a technical term for lustrations (cf. Jdt_12:7). It then comes to be used for the washing of proselytes, though it is hard to say when this practice originated; it seems intrinsically unlikely that it would have started after Christian baptism. Like other lustrations it is a continuation of the OT rites of purification, which are cultic but not magical, having the legal goal of ritual purity. A proselyte is put in a new position and from this point must keep the law. There is no thought here of death and regeneration, and the Hebrew term ʽtbl) behind baptizein does not signify sinking, drowning, or perishing.
D. The Baptism of John. This baptism (Mar_1:4 ff.; Joh_1:25 ff.; Act_1:5; Act_11:16, etc .) is a powerful messianic awakening from which Christianity springs. As presented in the Gospels it does not seem to be a child of Near Eastern syncretism. The nearest analogies are in Judaism, especially proselyte baptism. Like this, John's baptism makes great demands on the elect people. Unlike it, it has a more urgent ethical and eschatological thrust. John is preparing the people for God's imminent coming. His baptism is an initiatory rite for the gathering of the messianic community. He himself actively baptizes, so that the passive use of baptizein now becomes more common than the middle found elsewhere. Cleansing, connected with repentance, is the main point, with a suggestion of purification for the coming aeon. The contrast with the baptism of the Spirit and fire shows that there is at least some influence of the idea of life-giving inundation, but the eschatological dimension rules out individualistic death and regeneration.
E. Christian Baptism.
1. Jesus lets himself be baptized but does not himself baptize (cf. Joh_3:22; Joh_4:2). The sinlessness of Jesus does not exclude his baptism (Mat_3:14-15) since his concept of messiahship includes identification with sinners (cf. Joh_1:29). If Jesus does not personally baptize, he endorses John's baptism (Mar_11:30) but with a focus on his own death as a "being baptized" (Mar_10:38-39) (cf. the OT figure in Psa_42:7; Psa_69:1; Isa_43:2; Ca. 8:7).
2. Christian baptism is practiced from the very first (Act_2:38 ff.). This is not just because John's disciples come into the church. It plainly rests on a command of the risen Lord irrespective of critical objections to Mat_28:18; Mat_28:20.
3. Syntactically baptizein is linked with baptisma in Act_19:4. The means is expressed by the dative (Mar_1:8 : water; Mar_1:8 : the Holy Spirit, or en, "in" (Mat_3:11 etc.), and once eis (Mar_1:9). The goal is normally expressed by eis, "unto" (i.e., "for") or "into," as in Mat_3:11; Gal_3:27, etc. "Into" Christ, or the triune name, is not mystical but has a more legal flavor (cf. the commercial use of "in the name" for "to the account" and the invocation and confession of Christ's name in baptism [Act_22:16; cf. Act_19:3]).
4. The Saving Significance of Baptism into Christ. The goal of baptism is eternal life, but not primarily by way of vivification. In spite of 1Pe_3:20-21; Joh_3:5-6; Tit_3:5, the thought of the cleansing bath is more fundamental (1Co_6:11; Eph_5:26; Heb_10:22). Biblical piety rules out magical evaluations of 44religious objects and actions. Hence baptism has no purely external efficacy and in itself is unimportant (1Co_1:17; Heb_9:9-10; 1Pe_3:21). As the action of God or Christ, it derives its force from God's reconciling work or Christ's atoning death (1Co_6:11; Eph_5:25-26; Tit_3:4-5). It places us objectively in Christ and removes us from the sphere of death (Adam). Imputed righteousness impels us to ethical renewal, for forensic justification (in Paul) leads on to spiritual fellowship with Christ; only a distinction of thought, but no real leap or transition is demanded. Baptism is participation in Christ's death and resurrection which effects a transition to the new creation, though translation into the reality of the present aeon is still a task. Paul may well have taken over the current terminology of the mysteries here, but the content, i.e., the historical relationship, the eschatological new creation, and non-mystical justification, is different. With Christ's death, baptism has a once-for-all character. What we have is more a Christ metaphysics than a Christ mysticism, and if there are spiritual connections there is no magical transformation of human nature. 1Co_10:1 ff. combats a materialistic (as distinct from an objective) view, and while 1Co_15:29 seems to suggest a baptism for the dead, this is probably a tactical argument, or even an allusion to some non-Christian practice in the mysteries. The close connection with Christ's death and resurrection is mostly found in Paul, but the connection with the gift of the Spirit is common to Christian thinking. The Spirit may be given prior to baptism (Act_10:44-45), but more often at or after baptism. The link with forgiveness and the ethical element remain, as in John's relating of baptism to regeneration (Joh_3:5; cf. Tit_3:5), since this still stresses faith and retains the connection with salvation history. Infant baptism, which cannot be supported from NT examples, makes sense within this objective interpretation but represents a departure from apostolic Christianity when linked with the later hyperphysical rather than eschatological-christological views.
F. Baptism as a Syncretistic Mystery. After NT days the eschatological context ceased to be a leaven and was treated as an appendage. In consequence baptism tended to become a syncretistic mystery with a primary stress on the matter (Ignatius, Barnabas, Tertullian), the rite (Didache, Hermas), the institutional ministry (Ignatius, Tertullian), the timing (either postponement or in earliest infancy), and the question of second repentance for serious postbaptismal sin.
baptisms, baptisma. "Immersion" or "baptism"; baptismos denotes only the act, baptisma (not found outside the NT) the institution. baptismoi in Mar_7:4 are Levitical purifications and in Heb_6:2 all kinds of lustrations. baptisma is the specific term for John's baptism (Mat_3:7; Mar_11:30; Luk_7:29; Act_1:22; Act_10:37), which is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mar_1:4); it is also a term for Christian baptism, which is connected with Christ's death in Rom_6:4 and with the atonement in 1Pe_3:21, and is a basis of unity in Eph_4:5. Christ's death is itself his baptisma in Mar_10:38-39; Luk_12:50. As a special term, perhaps coined in the NT, baptisma shows us that Christian baptism is regarded as new and unique.
baptisms. The nickname for John in Mat_3:1; Mar_6:25; Luk_7:20, etc., apparently coined for him, and thus showing that his appearing as the messianic precursor was unique, a baptizer being indispensable for a baptism to which the word gives its content. (Josephus uses the term for John; the mysteries speak of baptisms by gods and priests, but rabbinic disciples at proselyte baptisms are only witnesses.)
[A. OEPKE]
Are you a Greek scholar?
If so what college, colleges did you get your degrees?
Man is not baptized for the same reason Jesus was obviously.
Mark 1:4-5
John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Then all the land of Judea and those from Jerusalem, went out to him, and were all baptized by him in the Jordan river confessing their sins.
Baptism for men in John's baptism is for the forgiveness of sins.
Baptism in Jesus' new covenant ie His gospel is for the forgiveness of sins,
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was immersed in water to fullfil all righteousness,
Matthew 3:15
But Jesus answered and said to him, Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fullfil all righteousness.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Because that is what it is
Col 2:
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
1. It was done by the hand of God not men
2. It was performed in the working of God who raised him from the dead (the Holy Spirit)
THE WORKING OF GOD.
NOT TH WORK OF A PASTOR.
Dude, I have access to many greek and hebrew dictionaries. lexicons and studies. And have studied under many a pastor teacher who have years of greek and hebrew studies.
You want to try to school me thinking you have knowledge, Bring it on, because I will show you what the word means.
You teach works. You just proved it, You asked me to prove it to you I did.
You think I am going to play your childish game you have another thing comming.
Quote me where I said a "pastor" had to be the baptizer?
Give qualifications for one to be a baptizer in Jesus' gospel?
You wont find any.
So simple to prove you are incorrect.
Go find multiple Greek scholars
Seek them out ask them which baptism is Colossians 2:12.
I already know what they will tell you.
I already know you don't want to really know.
You want to follow you churches doctrines,
I am only interested in the doctrine of Christ.
You cannot be right.
Heres one one obvious reason why.
You have two baptisms in your version of Jesus' gospel.
You are disagreeing with Paul.
Paul teaches there is only one baptism in the gospel of Christ.
That baptism is baptizo, meaning always water immersion!
Ephesians 4:5,
One Lord, one faith, one baptism(baptizo)
You have two too many!
Baptism is a passive.
The one being baptized is not doing it to himself.
The baptizer is doing the physical act to the one being baptized.
It is God who performs the operation on the one being baptized.
God is doing the work of cleansing the person being baptized of their sins.
Says, Romans 6:1-7
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
God baptized me into the death of CHrist, Into the burial of Christ, Into the body of CHrist, and into christ himself
I was baptized in water almost a year after I was baptized by God.
My water baptism was a work of gratitude as a result of being saved’’
My spirit baptism SAVED ME
Gods work saved me, Not my work in water baptism.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
