Grace is unmerited favor from God to you...humanity.
Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
thanks for admitting you have a works based gospel. and reject the gospel of faith
who is he who overcomes
1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
5. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
overcoming the world is being born of God in faith. Not becoming perfect sinless creatures.
No Grace is the gift of God which saves us
It is we who are saved from the penalty of sin, who have been given power over sin
You skip the salvation part. and try to save yourself.
The gospel is the death burial and resurrection of Christ. the good news is we who are dead in sin, can be made alive in Christ. By grace we have been (or will be) saved.
I was saved by grace through faith. Not by works. so I cannot boast.
Every post you make is nothing but you boasting in yourself.
My friend.,
I preach the cross. and you want to flip it around and say I deny the cross?
The cross saved me 50 years ago. and gave me not only eternal life. But the power over sin.
when were you saved? Oh thats right, You have not been saved yet. your still trying to get saved
I repented 50 years ago
Practice what you preach. seek God and his rightiousness, and not your righteousness.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I believe it was actually added to some bibles
but either way it does not matter
there is no condemnation to those who are in christ. Who are those who are in christ. They walk not after the flesh but after the spirit.
that is not prescriptive, it is descriptive.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
yes
the wage of sin is death, the GIFT of God is live, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
salvation is not earned, it is a gift.
what we have earned is death (spiritual)
unless we are made alive, by Grace, we are still dead
...in the form of power against sin. There are no favourites with God. All will be judged by what they do. We reap as WE sow.
Grace is not a license to sin. Or an excuse to think you can just try in your flesh to not sin. Grace is God's power over sin. Enter INTO Christ and walk in victory.
THE SECOND BLESSING by Andrew Murray
IN the life of the believer there sometimes comes a crisis, as clearly marked as his conversion, in which he passes out of a life of continual feebleness and failure to one of strength, and victory, and abiding rest. The transition has been called the Second Blessing. Many have objected to the phrase, as being unscriptural, or as tending to make a rule for all, what was only a mode of experience in some. Others have used it as helping to express clearly in human words what ought to be taught to believers as a possible deliverance from the ordinary life of the Christian, to one of abiding fellowship with God, and entire devotion to His service. In introducing it. into the title of this book, I have indicated my belief that, rightly understood, the words express a scriptural truth, and may be a help to believers in putting clearly before them what they may expect from God.
Let me try and make clear how I think we ought to understand it. I have connected the expression with the two Covenants. Why was it that God made two Covenants-not one, and not three? Because there were two parties concerned. In the First Covenant man was to prove what he could do, and what he was. In the Second, God would show what He would do. The former was the time of needed preparation; the latter, the time of Divine fulfilment. The same necessity as there was for this in the race, exists in the individual too. Conversion makes of a sinner a child of God, full of ignorance and weakness, without any conception of what the whole-hearted devotion is that God asks of him, or the full possession God is ready to take of him.
In some cases the transition from the elementary stage is by a gradual growth and enlightenment. But experiences teaches, that in the great majority of cases this healthy growth is not found. To those who have never found the secret of a healthy growth, of victory over sin and perfect rest in God, and have possibly despaired of ever finding it, because all their efforts have been failures, it has often been a wonderful help to learn that it is possible by a single decisive step, bringing them into a right relationship to Christ, His Spirit, and His strength, to enter upon an entirely new life.
What is needed to help a man to take that step is very simple. He must see and confess the wrongness, the sin, of the life he is living, not in harmony with God's will. He must see and believe in the life which Scripture holds out, which Christ Jesus promises to work and maintain in him. As he sees that his failure has been owing to his striving in his own strength, and believes that our Lord Jesus will actually work all in him in Divine power, he takes courage, and dares surrender himself to Christ anew. Confessing and giving up all that is of self and sin, yielding himself wholly to Christ and His service, he believes and receives a new power to live his life by the faith of the Son of God. The change is in many cases as clear, as marked, as wonderful, as conversion. For lack of a better name, that of A Second Blessing came most naturally.
When once it is seen how greatly this change is needed in the life of most Christians, and how entirely it rests on faith in Christ and His power, as revealed in the Word, all doubt as to its scripturalness will be removed. And when once its truth is seen, we shall be surprised to find how, throughout Scripture, in history and teaching, we find what illustrates and confirms it.
Take the twofold passage of Israel through water, first out of Egypt, then into Canaan. The wilderness journey was the result of unbelief and disobedience, allowed by God to humble them, and prove them, and show what was in their heart. When this purpose had been accomplished, a second blessing led them through Jordan as mightily into Canaan, as the first had brought them through the Red Sea out of Egypt.
Or take the Holy Place and the Holiest of All, as types of the life in the two covenants, and equally in the two stages of Christian experience. In the former, very real access to God and fellowship with Him, but always with a veil between. In the latter, the full access, through a rent veil, into the immediate presence of. God, and the full experience of the power of the heavenly life. As the eyes are opened to see how terribly the average Christian life comes short of God's purpose, and how truly the mingled life can be expelled by the power of a new revelation of what God waits to do, the types of Scripture will shine with a new meaning.
Or look to the teachings of the New Testament. In Romans, Paul contrasts the life of the Christian under the law with that under grace, the spirit of bondage with the Spirit of adoption. What does this mean but that Christians may still be living under the law and its bondage, that they need to come out of this into the full life of grace and liberty through the Holy Spirit, and that, when first they see the difference, nothing is needed but the surrender of faith, to accept and experience what grace will do by the Holy Spirit.
To the Corinthians, Paul writes of some being carnal, and still babes, walking as men after the flesh; others being spiritual, with spiritual discernment and character. To the Galatians, he speaks of the liberty with which Christ, by the Spirit, makes free from the law, in contrast to those who sought to perfect in the flesh, what was begun in the Spirit, and who gloried in the flesh; -all to call them to recognise the danger of the carnal, divided life, and to come at once to the life of faith, the life in the Spirit, which alone is according to God's will.
Everywhere we see in Scripture, what the state of the Church at the present day confirms, that conversion is only the gate that leads into the path of life, and that within that gate there is still great danger of mistaking the path, of turning aside, or turning back, and that where this has taken place we are called at once, and with our whole heart, to turn and give ourselves to nothing less than all that Christ is willing to work in us. Just as there are many who have always thought that conversion must be slow, and gradual, and uncertain, and cannot understand how it can be sudden and final, because they only take man's powers into account, so many cannot see how the revelation of the true life of holiness, and the entrance on it by faith out of a life of self effort and failure, may be immediate and permanent.
They look too much to man's efforts, and know not how the second blessing is nothing more nor less than a new vision of what Christ is willing to work in us, and the surrender of faith that yields all to Him.
I would fain hope that what I have written in this book may help some to see that the second blessing is just what they need, is what God by His Spirit will work in them, is nothing but the acceptance of Christ in all His saving power as our strength and life, and is what will bring them into, and fit them for, that full life in the New Covenant, in which God works all in all.
Let me close this note with a quotation from the introduction to a little book just published, Dying to Self: A Golden Dialogue, by William Law, with notes by A. M.: "A great deal has been said against the use of the terms, the Higher Life, the Second Blessing. In Law one finds nothing of such language, but of the deep truth of which they are the, perhaps defective, expression, his book is full. The points on which so much stress is laid in what is called Keswick teaching, stand prominently out in his whole argument.
The low state of the average life of believers, the cause of all failure as coming from self-confidence, the need of an entire surrender of the whole being to the operation of God, the call to turn to Christ as the One and Sure Deliverer from the power of self, the Divine certainty of a better life for all who will in self-despair trust Christ for it, and the heavenly joy of a life in which the Spirit of Love fills the heart-these truths are common to both. What makes Law's putting of the truth of special value is the way in which he shows how humility and utter self-despair, with the resignation to God's mighty working in simple faith, is the infallible way to be delivered from self, and have the Spirit of Love born in the heart."
-------- Taken from "The Two Covenants” by Andrew Murray (1828-1917)
IN the life of the believer there sometimes comes a crisis, as clearly marked as his conversion, in which he passes out of a life of continual feebleness and failure to one of strength, and victory, and abiding rest. The transition has been called the Second Blessing. Many have objected to the phrase, as being unscriptural, or as tending to make a rule for all, what was only a mode of experience in some. Others have used it as helping to express clearly in human words what ought to be taught to believers as a possible deliverance from the ordinary life of the Christian, to one of abiding fellowship with God, and entire devotion to His service. In introducing it. into the title of this book, I have indicated my belief that, rightly understood, the words express a scriptural truth, and may be a help to believers in putting clearly before them what they may expect from God.
Let me try and make clear how I think we ought to understand it. I have connected the expression with the two Covenants. Why was it that God made two Covenants-not one, and not three? Because there were two parties concerned. In the First Covenant man was to prove what he could do, and what he was. In the Second, God would show what He would do. The former was the time of needed preparation; the latter, the time of Divine fulfilment. The same necessity as there was for this in the race, exists in the individual too. Conversion makes of a sinner a child of God, full of ignorance and weakness, without any conception of what the whole-hearted devotion is that God asks of him, or the full possession God is ready to take of him.
In some cases the transition from the elementary stage is by a gradual growth and enlightenment. But experiences teaches, that in the great majority of cases this healthy growth is not found. To those who have never found the secret of a healthy growth, of victory over sin and perfect rest in God, and have possibly despaired of ever finding it, because all their efforts have been failures, it has often been a wonderful help to learn that it is possible by a single decisive step, bringing them into a right relationship to Christ, His Spirit, and His strength, to enter upon an entirely new life.
What is needed to help a man to take that step is very simple. He must see and confess the wrongness, the sin, of the life he is living, not in harmony with God's will. He must see and believe in the life which Scripture holds out, which Christ Jesus promises to work and maintain in him. As he sees that his failure has been owing to his striving in his own strength, and believes that our Lord Jesus will actually work all in him in Divine power, he takes courage, and dares surrender himself to Christ anew. Confessing and giving up all that is of self and sin, yielding himself wholly to Christ and His service, he believes and receives a new power to live his life by the faith of the Son of God. The change is in many cases as clear, as marked, as wonderful, as conversion. For lack of a better name, that of A Second Blessing came most naturally.
When once it is seen how greatly this change is needed in the life of most Christians, and how entirely it rests on faith in Christ and His power, as revealed in the Word, all doubt as to its scripturalness will be removed. And when once its truth is seen, we shall be surprised to find how, throughout Scripture, in history and teaching, we find what illustrates and confirms it.
Take the twofold passage of Israel through water, first out of Egypt, then into Canaan. The wilderness journey was the result of unbelief and disobedience, allowed by God to humble them, and prove them, and show what was in their heart. When this purpose had been accomplished, a second blessing led them through Jordan as mightily into Canaan, as the first had brought them through the Red Sea out of Egypt.
Or take the Holy Place and the Holiest of All, as types of the life in the two covenants, and equally in the two stages of Christian experience. In the former, very real access to God and fellowship with Him, but always with a veil between. In the latter, the full access, through a rent veil, into the immediate presence of. God, and the full experience of the power of the heavenly life. As the eyes are opened to see how terribly the average Christian life comes short of God's purpose, and how truly the mingled life can be expelled by the power of a new revelation of what God waits to do, the types of Scripture will shine with a new meaning.
Or look to the teachings of the New Testament. In Romans, Paul contrasts the life of the Christian under the law with that under grace, the spirit of bondage with the Spirit of adoption. What does this mean but that Christians may still be living under the law and its bondage, that they need to come out of this into the full life of grace and liberty through the Holy Spirit, and that, when first they see the difference, nothing is needed but the surrender of faith, to accept and experience what grace will do by the Holy Spirit.
To the Corinthians, Paul writes of some being carnal, and still babes, walking as men after the flesh; others being spiritual, with spiritual discernment and character. To the Galatians, he speaks of the liberty with which Christ, by the Spirit, makes free from the law, in contrast to those who sought to perfect in the flesh, what was begun in the Spirit, and who gloried in the flesh; -all to call them to recognise the danger of the carnal, divided life, and to come at once to the life of faith, the life in the Spirit, which alone is according to God's will.
Everywhere we see in Scripture, what the state of the Church at the present day confirms, that conversion is only the gate that leads into the path of life, and that within that gate there is still great danger of mistaking the path, of turning aside, or turning back, and that where this has taken place we are called at once, and with our whole heart, to turn and give ourselves to nothing less than all that Christ is willing to work in us. Just as there are many who have always thought that conversion must be slow, and gradual, and uncertain, and cannot understand how it can be sudden and final, because they only take man's powers into account, so many cannot see how the revelation of the true life of holiness, and the entrance on it by faith out of a life of self effort and failure, may be immediate and permanent.
They look too much to man's efforts, and know not how the second blessing is nothing more nor less than a new vision of what Christ is willing to work in us, and the surrender of faith that yields all to Him.
I would fain hope that what I have written in this book may help some to see that the second blessing is just what they need, is what God by His Spirit will work in them, is nothing but the acceptance of Christ in all His saving power as our strength and life, and is what will bring them into, and fit them for, that full life in the New Covenant, in which God works all in all.
Let me close this note with a quotation from the introduction to a little book just published, Dying to Self: A Golden Dialogue, by William Law, with notes by A. M.: "A great deal has been said against the use of the terms, the Higher Life, the Second Blessing. In Law one finds nothing of such language, but of the deep truth of which they are the, perhaps defective, expression, his book is full. The points on which so much stress is laid in what is called Keswick teaching, stand prominently out in his whole argument.
The low state of the average life of believers, the cause of all failure as coming from self-confidence, the need of an entire surrender of the whole being to the operation of God, the call to turn to Christ as the One and Sure Deliverer from the power of self, the Divine certainty of a better life for all who will in self-despair trust Christ for it, and the heavenly joy of a life in which the Spirit of Love fills the heart-these truths are common to both. What makes Law's putting of the truth of special value is the way in which he shows how humility and utter self-despair, with the resignation to God's mighty working in simple faith, is the infallible way to be delivered from self, and have the Spirit of Love born in the heart."
-------- Taken from "The Two Covenants” by Andrew Murray (1828-1917)
Knowing there is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, does not change what else Paul has said. Before, Paul spoke of how, while clothed in body of death; the flesh, we serve the law of sin that leads to death. Here Paul doesn't deny that, but adds more, showing how when we walk after the Spirit there is no condemnation, because walking in the Spirit is to walk in the righteousness of Christ Jesus.
Remember the words Paul quotes in chapter 5: "God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Since when we were still called sinners, walking in flesh, carnally minded, Christ died for us, after we have been set free from ALL condemnation, will Christ condemn us because we fail to attain perfect righteousness through His Spirit in us while still clothed in carnal, mortal body destined to death?
I would argue that while clothed in mortal, carnal body, even with the Spirit of Christ in us, we will always struggle against sin, and never attaining perfection in this life. However, when we do choose to walk in the flesh rather than walking in the Spirit in us, we are not eternally condemned through sin, but remember God chastens whom He loves. While we are set free from ALL condemnation eternally when we walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, we are not free from being judged and chastened by God. If we come to a point in our walking in the Spirit where we do not commit sin, why are we warned against rebuke, judgment and chastening of the Lord?
Revelation 3:19 (KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Heb 12:4 ¶ Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
We aren't called to defeat our nature to sin! Why? Because Christ has already made atonement through His blood for our sins.
do they sin if they walk after the Spirit?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
does anyone walk after the spirit 24/7?
They can not live in sin (1 John 3) but to say they have no sin. John said we are decieved if we think this.
I see a progression in Romans. Paul is sinning and struggling crying out for deliverance....he then gets the revelation that there is no condemnation if he walks after the Spirit
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
this would not be true
his revelation is there is no condemnation for those in Christ
Not if he walks in the spirit. no one does this 24/7
You people pull out this single verse as if it is a visa card to remain in sin. It's the only verse you have but it doesn't mean what you think it does
Can you sin "in" Christ?
How do you know? You going to pull out 1Jn 1:8? How do you reconcile it with this? I never hear you guys quote this:
1 Jn 3:8-10
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
That makes no sense at all. You think God made peace with sin? You mean God changed His mind? That the wages of sin is now life? That slaves of Christ are also slaves of sin?
Do you know what anti-christ is?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Excuse me sir. But you should not try to think you know what a person is thinking
I just posted a fact if we say we have no sin we are decieved.
Now either John was mistaken or maybe some people are decieved
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You do understand that in the text habitual sin is spoken of here
God does not overrule your free will. A new believer is a babe in Christ. While his nature is changed he does not even know every possible sin
Again if you think you never sin. I would take heed to what John said. Because it is a dangerous place to be
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
This just proves you have no idea what the purpose of the cross was
The wage of sin is death the gift of God is life. He paid for it with his blood
Yeah. John told us. He Denys Christ.
The fact John said if we sin we can confess them proves John said we still sin. Peter also told us to confess our sins to each other. If we no longer sin that’s kind of a foolish think to tell us to do
I don't know what they are teaching in the churches these days....but whatever it is it's just adding to the confusion.
1. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...buying it back with His shed blood. How? The world fell into sin because of Adam's sin....but Jesus defeated sin and death. God saves people in two ways....by mercy, and for glory. The righteous will see mercy. The saints will know glory.
2. That sacrifice makes it possible to live in God's presence.. for the saint right now, and for the righteous, in the next age as they INHERIT life in the future nations.
3. The only salvation right now is to be saved from sin. That salvation includes translation into the kingdom realm so that we are then under grace...the power over sin. From there we walk in the Spirit just as Jesus walked....overcoming as Jesus overcame.
4. There are 2 standards we will be judged by. For the righteous, meek and God-fearing...there is mercy. For the saint a MUCH HARDER judgment unto eternal glory....or eternal shame
5. Most modern believers CLAIM to be God's and call on the name of the Lord. That is fine unless one also judges others and refuses to extend mercy to others. Unless we show mercy then we will not receive mercy. Believers must depart from iniquity or suffer rejection on judgment day.
6. If we want an easier judgment, then we won't condemn others, make outlandish claims, speak lies, twist the meaning of scriptures etc... Also, God judges teachers a lot harder....since IF they have believed a lie and spread that lie they are more responsible for it. It would be better not to have been born in that case.
1. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...buying it back with His shed blood. How? The world fell into sin because of Adam's sin....but Jesus defeated sin and death. God saves people in two ways....by mercy, and for glory. The righteous will see mercy. The saints will know glory.
2. That sacrifice makes it possible to live in God's presence.. for the saint right now, and for the righteous, in the next age as they INHERIT life in the future nations.
3. The only salvation right now is to be saved from sin. That salvation includes translation into the kingdom realm so that we are then under grace...the power over sin. From there we walk in the Spirit just as Jesus walked....overcoming as Jesus overcame.
4. There are 2 standards we will be judged by. For the righteous, meek and God-fearing...there is mercy. For the saint a MUCH HARDER judgment unto eternal glory....or eternal shame
5. Most modern believers CLAIM to be God's and call on the name of the Lord. That is fine unless one also judges others and refuses to extend mercy to others. Unless we show mercy then we will not receive mercy. Believers must depart from iniquity or suffer rejection on judgment day.
6. If we want an easier judgment, then we won't condemn others, make outlandish claims, speak lies, twist the meaning of scriptures etc... Also, God judges teachers a lot harder....since IF they have believed a lie and spread that lie they are more responsible for it. It would be better not to have been born in that case.
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