Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[1stCenturyLady]

you or he was sick sorry, but that is part of the addiction with porn. It turns into a sexual addiction,
It than sometimes takes on the alcohol part, and then when you get pompous you start the other
Then you have a husge mess by watching others struggle, not my personal struggle

Reed further to 1 John 1:9-10

I wasn't talking about porn. Are you talking about your previous addiction?

Why verses 9 and 10 in that order? 9 is being cleansed of all unrighteousness; and 10 is saying you were born sinless - a lie. In 1 John there is a Hebrew style of writing used that starts with verse 5 and contrasts with the next verses all the way to 10. The contrast is Light vs. Darkness. It is an EASTERN style of writing.

5. God is Light
6. Walk in Darkness
7. Walk in the Light
8. Say you have no sin (In Darkness)
9. Confess and be cleansed of all unrighteousness. (In other words, come to the Light)
10. If you say you haven't sinned. (In Darkness)

Many with western minds can't see it. They even think they have to always admit to being a sinner, when that is the opposite of Paul, also eastern, who told us to reckon ourselves free from sin, lest we sin. John is not telling a Christian to always say they are sinners, but the unsaved to BECOME Christians. Many westerners are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid, and won't study to make themselves approved. I get so sick of showing that Jesus took away our sin, only for someone stupid quoting 1 John 1:8. There was even one recently in this very thread.

 

[ProDeo]

Many of my brothers and sisters have no wisdom....and they love to pretend. Perpetual novices.

Many of my brothers and sisters at least have had the milk, I doubt you have.

Core Biblical Requirements

• • Acknowledge Sin: Recognize that all people have sinned and fall short of God’s standard, leaving us in need of a Savior (Romans 3:23).
  • Believe in Jesus: Trust that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He died on the cross as the full payment for sins, and that He rose from the dead (John 3:16, Acts 16:31).
  • Repent of Sins: Turn away from a lifestyle of sin and turn toward God with a changed mind and heart (Acts 3:19, Luke 13:5).
  • Confess Jesus as Lord: Acknowledge publicly and personally that Jesus is Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9).

The milk.

Even Google knows.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Our sins are eternally forgiven yet our flesh still sins in either thought, desire, word, deed or failing to do what is right.
You will waste your time trying to convince me your flesh no longer sins

Have you experienced being born again and filled with His Spirit. I wasn't for the first 30 years I went to church. The night I was baptized with the Holy Spirit and born again altogether, I had no more desire to sin. So why sin when you have no desire to sin, especially when you are in love with God and don't want to hurt Him.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Might this do?

1Jo 2:1-2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins…..

Guilt is expiated with genuine sincere repentance. (But not if we were to keep on sinning knowingly and deliberately, because God will not be mocked. Someone who keeps on wilfully sinning when they have it in their power not to is trampling on the blood of Christ and treating it as an unholy thing........they are not being sincere and God knows it and will not be made a fool of....He will not allow His grace to be abused.)

The bible says All things HAVE been put under the feet of Jesus, but we do not yet see all things put under Him. So there is a "yes, but not necessarily yet" to these things. Our old man HAS been crucified and yet we, or at least most of us, are still having to contend with our old man in some respect or other. Even though the devil was defeated at the cross, he still goes around seeking who he may devour.

The born again, miraculously saved apostle Paul whose whole life was consecrated to the Lord still testified that "In me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing." And this is why we need to undergo the chastisements of the Lord......to put the flesh under and take more ground with respect to our lives/hearts.....and even our fruitful branches the Lord prunes to make them more fruitful. Different people are given different gifts and graces in the beginning when they come to faith in Christ....I think no one of us should assume that everyone's experience is the same as ours.

Yes, 1 John 2:4 is explaining what he meant in 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10. It is not a sin to agree that Jesus has cleansed us from all unrighteousness. The "sinners" in chapter one have a remedy in verse 9. They are not yet born again.

1 John 2:1b And if ANY MAN SIN - both saved and unsaved... It is the same sentiment of John 3:16. For God so loved the World..." Also, 1 John 1:9 is the same as Acts 2:38 on how to become a Christian. Once cleansed of all your past sins and are resurrected with a clean nature, you cannot sin willfully of sins of lawlessness, and try to use 1 John 1:9 as some "get out of hell free card." But you are not yet perfect and 1 John 1:7 is the main verse depicting a Christian. You see him walking in the Light, and those imperfections unintentionally committed from immature fruit of the Spirit are continuously being cleansed. But no willful sin will be forgiven after being born again, because you did it willfully when you had been given the power to abstain, and there is no more sacrifice for sin. Jesus already did that once and for all.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1Jo 2:1-2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins…..

This is better because you can see it is the same a John 3:16, most people's first memory verse as a child.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Guilt is expiated with genuine sincere repentance. (But not if we were to keep on sinning knowingly and deliberately, because God will not be mocked. Someone who keeps on wilfully sinning when they have it in their power not to is trampling on the blood of Christ and treating it as an unholy thing........they are not being sincere and God knows it and will not be made a fool of....He will not allow His grace to be abused.)

Yes, I agree.

The bible says All things HAVE been put under the feet of Jesus, but we do not yet see all things put under Him. So there is a "yes, but not necessarily yet" to these things. Our old man HAS been crucified and yet we, or at least most of us, are still having to contend with our old man in some respect or other. Even though the devil was defeated at the cross, he still goes around seeking who he may devour.

If you are Protestant then you probably have not been taught the two types of sin that God's people have known for about 3,500 years. The "old man" only had to do with the worst type of sin called sins unto death. In other words, they broke commandments of God and were stoned to death when under the Law. This type of sin should not be anything you have to contend with if you are born again. As I've told you I committed a sin unto death after having gone to church for 30 years. So you see, I'm living proof that there are many people committed to going to church who have never been born again. And they are who I target in my teachings. I think the greater the sin you were committing, the more you know when you've experienced being born again. For me it was like night and day. It was extreme.

The born again, miraculously saved apostle Paul whose whole life was consecrated to the Lord still testified that "In me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing." And this is why we need to undergo the chastisements of the Lord......to put the flesh under and take more ground with respect to our lives/hearts.....and even our fruitful branches the Lord prunes to make them more fruitful. Different people are given different gifts and graces in the beginning when they come to faith in Christ....I think no one of us should assume that everyone's experience is the same as ours.

No, you are wrong about Paul. Acts 23:21 ?Then Paul, looking earnestly at the council, said, “Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.” Liz, even when he was jailing Christians, he did it in good conscience. I'm sure you've wrote that because of someone preacher, or not knowing that Romans 7:14-25 was life under the Law of Moses in the Old Testament. Paul was most concerned that from what he was writing, someone would think he was saying there had been something wrong with God's Law when he had been under it. Paul also wrote this with the personal pronoun "I" like John writing "we" in 1 John 1. This eastern style of writing that the Apostles wrote in, can confuse the western mindset. And many false doctrines about sin have been taught by post-Apostlic church fathers, and the Reformation even went further with the corruption of the gospel and claiming "sin is sin." That is not true. God didn't change. But some of His laws did because they were fulfilled in Christ.

When he wrote Romans 7:18, He was an Apostle of Jesus Christ. He was not under the law anymore as he was as a Pharisee (which is what he was describing and writing to) as in the first verse of chapter 7, it was those who know the law and had lived under it before trusting in Jesus that he wanted to impress on them the importance of believing there was nothing wrong with God's law, but our sin nature that Jesus has crucified, and it has been raised again clean. Now the only sins we as born again human beings is our human nature filled with the Spirit of Christ who do not willfully sin as you said. 1 John 1:7 shows us that when born again of the Spirit we should now be walking in the light...and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. It should say, all sin that is left, for it does NOT cleanse sins unto death, now only sins not unto death we naturally commit unintentionally while Jesus finishes the work He started.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

It would take a hundred pages and would go nowhere.

I mean just the theological stuff.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Once cleansed of all your past sins and are resurrected with a clean nature, you cannot sin willfully of sins of lawlessness, and try to use 1 John 1:9 as some "get out of hell free card."

Acts 13:38-39 is the born again person's "get out of hell free card."

No, that's not a license to willfully sin. Anybody who says that is not born again. 1 John 3:9-10

Born again people know grace is given to born again believers to resist godlessness, not live in it. Titus 2:11-12

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

As I've told you I committed a sin unto death after having gone to church for 30 years.

ALL sin is unto death for the unbeliever. Galatians 5:19-21

The sins listed there erase the false dicotomy you have created between sins unto death and sins not unto death for unbelievers. And Acts 13:38-39 erases the false dicotomy between kinds of sin you have created for born again believers.

Don't expect honest people to dismiss these plain scriptures in favor of what you obtained through the gift you claim you have. The Word shows us you are not hearing from God.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes, 1 John 2:4 is explaining what he meant in 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10. It is not a sin to agree that Jesus has cleansed us from all unrighteousness. The "sinners" in chapter one have a remedy in verse 9. They are not yet born again.

1 John 2:1b And if ANY MAN SIN - both saved and unsaved... It is the same sentiment of John 3:16. For God so loved the World..." Also, 1 John 1:9 is the same as Acts 2:38 on how to become a Christian. Once cleansed of all your past sins and are resurrected with a clean nature, you cannot sin willfully of sins of lawlessness, and try to use 1 John 1:9 as some "get out of hell free card." But you are not yet perfect and 1 John 1:7 is the main verse depicting a Christian. You see him walking in the Light, and those imperfections unintentionally committed from immature fruit of the Spirit are continuously being cleansed. But no willful sin will be forgiven after being born again, because you did it willfully when you had been given the power to abstain, and there is no more sacrifice for sin. Jesus already did that once and for all.

At the beginning of 1 John 2, the apostle wrote the reason why he said the things he said in chapter 1 - it was to exhort and instruct the believers of the early new church he was writing to so that they would not sin. It doesn't appear that he was writing for the purpose of evangelizing:

1Jo 2:1-2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not......

I can't help but wonder why believers need all the instruction and building up and encouraging, exhorting, admonishing, warnings etc in all the epistles if not sinning was automatic and impossible for born again believers?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

The night I was baptized with the Holy Spirit and born again altogether, I had no more desire to sin.

That would mean you never get tempted.
I don't believe that for a minute.
Even Jesus, the perfect human being, was tempted.
I don't think for a minute you're superior to Jesus.

 

[Lizbeth]

This is better because you can see it is the same a John 3:16, most people's first memory verse as a child.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Only believers have access to Christ's advocacy, atonement and propitiation. And where it says "not for ours only but also for the whole world" is talking about not just for the Jews only but for the Gentiles (nations/world) also who come to faith in Christ.

No, you are wrong about Paul. Acts 23:21 ?Then Paul, looking earnestly at the council, said, “Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.” Liz, even when he was jailing Christians, he did it in good conscience. I'm sure you've wrote that because of someone preacher, or not knowing that Romans 7:14-25 was life under the Law of Moses in the Old Testament. Paul was most concerned that from what he was writing, someone would think he was saying there had been something wrong with God's Law when he had been under it. Paul also wrote this with the personal pronoun "I" like John writing "we" in 1 John 1. This eastern style of writing that the Apostles wrote in, can confuse the western mindset. And many false doctrines about sin have been taught by post-Apostlic church fathers, and the Reformation even went further with the corruption of the gospel and claiming "sin is sin." That is not true. God didn't change. But some of His laws did because they were fulfilled in Christ.

When he wrote Romans 7:18, He was an Apostle of Jesus Christ. He was not under the law anymore as he was as a Pharisee (which is what he was describing and writing to) as in the first verse of chapter 7, it was those who know the law and had lived under it before trusting in Jesus that he wanted to impress on them the importance of believing there was nothing wrong with God's law, but our sin nature that Jesus has crucified, and it has been raised again clean. Now the only sins we as born again human beings is our human nature filled with the Spirit of Christ who do not willfully sin as you said. 1 John 1:7 shows us that when born again of the Spirit we should now be walking in the light...and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. It should say, all sin that is left, for it does NOT cleanse sins unto death, now only sins not unto death we naturally commit unintentionally while Jesus finishes the work He started.

Sister I just want to say......."study to show yourself approved".......is not an instruction to study God's word with the carnal mind like a textbook or scholarly work. It couldn't be saying that when the bible says elsewhere that the carnal mind is enmity with God and cannot perceive the things of the spirit because they must be spiritually discerned. It is the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth........our reliance needs to be on HIM, not on a scholarly or intellectual approach to the bible. The Holy Spirit simply illuminates it to our understanding as we read it or meditate on it prayerfully, looking to Him, and as we also pay a price for truth by following/obeying the Lord ("BUY the truth, but sell it not") That word "study" in old English usage just meant to "endeavour"....so in modern parlance it is saying that we are to endeavour to show ourselves approved BY rightly dividing the word of truth. It is not saying to rightly divide the truth by studying it with the carnal mind. And again, it is the Holy Spirit who helps us rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Not in the flesh means not in the DOMINION of the flesh.

People who have the Spirit of God are no longer in the DOMINION, or under the authority of the flesh. This follows with what he was saying in chapter 6. And because this is true, don't let it have authority/dominion over you. You can't please God when you do that.

Romans 8:8-9
8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.

Your version of the Bible looks like it is probably the New World Translation by the Jehovah Witnesses. Is it?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Only believers have access to Christ's advocacy, atonement and propitiation. And where it says "not for ours only but also for the whole world" is talking about not just for the Jews only but for the Gentiles (nations/world) also who come to faith in Christ.


Sister I just want to say......."study to show yourself approved".......is not an instruction to study God's word with the carnal mind like a textbook or scholarly work. It couldn't be saying that when the bible says elsewhere that the carnal mind is enmity with God and cannot perceive the things of the spirit because they must be spiritually discerned. It is the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth........our reliance needs to be on HIM, not on a scholarly or intellectual approach to the bible. The Holy Spirit simply illuminates it to our understanding as we read it or meditate on it prayerfully, looking to Him, and as we also pay a price for truth by following/obeying the Lord ("BUY the truth, but sell it not") That word "study" in old English usage just meant to "endeavour"....so in modern parlance it is saying that we are to endeavour to show ourselves approved BY rightly dividing the word of truth. It is not saying to rightly divide the truth by studying it with the carnal mind. And again, it is the Holy Spirit who helps us rightly divide the word of truth.

You are right. You cannot study the Bible with a carnal mind. I don't have one. Mine is the "mind of Christ." It was born again of the Spirit close to 50 years ago.

This is why most people on the forums believe what I teach is foolishness. It is also why I only teach the Church, and do not debate atheists. My ministry is to those with itching ears that have grown up in false denominations. There are millions of them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Not in the flesh means not in the DOMINION of the flesh.

People who have the Spirit of God are no longer in the DOMINION, or under the authority of the flesh. This follows with what he was saying in chapter 6. And because this is true, don't let it have authority/dominion over you. You can't please God when you do that.

Romans 8:8-9
8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.

Your version of the Bible looks like it is probably the New World Translation by the Jehovah Witnesses. Is it?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

ALL sin is unto death for the unbeliever. Galatians 5:19-21

Dah!

We are talking about believers. After repentance and turning to Jesus, past sins (all of them) have been cleansed, no matter whether they are major sins like murder, or minor sins like accidentally shouting a swear word, and they are filled with God's Spirit. But if then they commit willful murder or adultery, we as their brethren are not suppose to pray for them as there is no more sacrifice for "present and future" sins unto death as is commonly, but heretically taught in the Church.

Christians only commit sins NOT unto death, like the accidental swear word, while walking in the Spirit, and they are continually cleansed, even in the present and future. 1 John 1:7. That verse does NOT COVER murder and adultery, etc., which are all sins unto death.

 

[Episkopos]

ALL sin is unto death for the unbeliever. Galatians 5:19-21

For all have sinned and come short of the mercy of God?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Only believers have access to Christ's advocacy, atonement and propitiation. And where it says "not for ours only but also for the whole world" is talking about not just for the Jews only but for the Gentiles (nations/world) also who come to faith in Christ.

Of course. Jew and Gentile who believe in Jesus Christ - not unbelieving Muslims and Hindus, etc., UNLESS they hear about Jesus and turn to Him as their God.

 

[Episkopos]

Only believers have access to Christ's advocacy, atonement and propitiation.

This is false and unbiblical. Jesus died for the sins of the world...not just the church. This false doctrine is one of the two main pillars of iniquity which will see many be rejected from God on judgment day. Without giving mercy, people forsake their own mercy before God.

The reason why so many claim to be believers is because they think they need to name and claim just to be saved. But the opposite is true.

No one will be judged by their beliefs....JUST their deeds. And to lie and steal God's glory for themselves is a damnable offense to God. Jesus is coming back as a thief for these...and they are MANY.

And where it says "not for ours only but also for the whole world" is talking about not just for the Jews only but for the Gentiles (nations/world) also who come to faith in Christ.

Not at all. Paul says that Jesus is the saviour of the whole world ESPECIALLY those who believe. Those who try to deny mercy on those whom God has ordained for mercy will lose their own mercy. Who has any wisdom at all here?

 

[Episkopos]

Of course. Jew and Gentile who believe in Jesus Christ - not unbelieving Muslims and Hindus, etc., UNLESS they hear about Jesus and turn to Him as their God.

We are not to judge the world...God does that. And God does not care what you believe. He cares about what you DO. And if a Hindu or Muslim does what Jesus has laid out as obedience to the will of God...then it is mercy for them.

People need to come out of Sunday school and grow up.