Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Judge Hardcastle]

Or as Luther put it....a fresh covering of snow over a dunghill. You post has that same peculiar odour to it.

The more accurate description is a dusting of dirt on snow. The fundamental quality being the snow, not the dirt that dirties the outer part of the snow. This is akin to Jesus' explaining how a person who has had a bath need only to wash his feet. The fundamental quality of the person being that he is clean, not that his feet are dirty. Dirty feet doesn't change the fact that the person has been bathed one time and does not need to take another bath. The believer doesn't become unbathed when they sin.

John 13:10
10Jesus told him, “Whoever has already bathed needs only to wash his feet, and he will be completely clean.

A truth that doesn't quite fit into the theology of the works salvationist.

 

[David1701]

The more accurate description is a dusting of dirt on snow. The fundamental quality being the snow, not the dirt that dirties the outer part of the snow. This is akin to Jesus' explaining how a person who has had a bath need only to wash his feet. The fundamental quality of the person being that he is clean, not that his feet are dirty. Dirty feet doesn't change the fact that the person has been bathed one time and does not need to take another bath. The believer doesn't become unbathed when they sin.

John 13:10
10Jesus told him, “Whoever has already bathed needs only to wash his feet, and he will be completely clean.

A truth that doesn't quite fit into the theology of the works salvationist.

Yes; the feet are the part of the body that constantly touches the world, in our walk; therefore, they are the part that (metaphorically speaking) becomes dirty from that contact.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

God reckons us as justified, not through any actual change in our sinful condition, but that our sinfulness is covered by the pure righteousness of Christ. This means that when God views us, He views us through Christ's righteousness, not our own.

Epi says it is impossible to be seen as righteous without actually being righteous. He does not understand that the riches of Christ's righteousness is credited to the believer when they are joined to him, like how the riches of a man become the riches of the woman he takes as his own. She doesn't earn his estate. It becomes hers by virtue of marital union. It's a completely legal transaction that no one can argue with or dispute. Though many try.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

...although we are guilty of sin, we are acquitted because Jesus has taken our guilt and punishment for sin upon Himself, and given us His righteousness.

There is no ransom paid for sinners in Epi's theology. No sacrificial propitiation for sin to turn the wrath of God away. Righteousness, and deliverance from the penalty and captivity of sin is by actually being righteous in behavior in his theology. He thinks he is (or has been in the past?) righteous enough to be set free from the penalty and captivity of sin. He rejects atonement through the blood sacrifice of Christ. In his theology you become at one with God and at peace with Him by literally being righteous as He is righteous. Literally. His is a works righteousness 'gospel' through and through.

 

[shepherdsword]

Where does the Bible say that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is also an allegory?

You said that it represents the flesh, but the Bible does not say that (and the knowledge of good and evil (i.e. conscience) is not the flesh).

The tree of life points to the Lord Jesus Christ (it also represents wisdom).

To try to make this either "Pharisaical knowledge that puffs up", or finding "life by fellowshipping with God's Spirit" is a false dichotomy, because you are omitting finding godly knowledge, along with fellowshipping with God's Spirit. It's not "either, or"; but, "both, and".

It's easy to see what tree you eat from when you read.

 

[shepherdsword]

Yes; the feet are the part of the body that constantly touches the world, in our walk; therefore, they are the part that (metaphorically speaking) becomes dirty from that contact.

The bible doesn't say that our feet are the only part that touches the word. (we are not allowed to use metamorphic allegories, remember?)

 

[Episkopos]

Epi says it is impossible to be seen as righteous without actually being righteous. He does not understand that the riches of Christ's righteousness is credited to the believer when they are joined to him, like how the riches of a man become the riches of the woman he takes as his own. She doesn't earn his estate. It becomes hers by virtue of marital union. It's a completely legal transaction that no one can argue with or dispute. Though many try.

This is to assume that the marital union is complete. Betrothal is conditional. Just like the "earnest" of the Spirit. Even the full measure of grace doesn't guarantee that we will be faithful. Those who are Christ's are called, chosen AND faithful.

Salvation is conditional. The promises are conditional. Many are called but few are chosen. Many will be rejected into outer darkness.

I"m trying to get people to consider that the certainty they have learned to trust in is by indoctrination into a scheme that is meant to get MORE people in the pews. As many as humanly possible. The religious system is an entity of its own. It doesn't care for people...and certainly not for the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

There is no ransom paid for sinners in Epi's theology.

Jesus bought back...redeemed ....reconciled...the world unto Himself.

No sacrificial propitiation for sin to turn the wrath of God away.

Jesus is the atonement for the whole world.

Righteousness, and deliverance from the penalty and captivity of sin is by actually being righteous in behavior in his theology.

We will ONLY be judged by our works...and of what kind they are. Nobody is neutral when it comes to works. Either they are good or bad. No one can say...I don't DO works because I don't believe in "works salvation" (a made up strawman argument). Likewise nobody can live temporally outside the environment of the earth. We can't pollute the world and say we are not affecting the environment.

He thinks he is (or has been in the past?) righteous enough to be set free from the penalty and captivity of sin.

He gives the Spirit to those who obey Him.

He rejects atonement through the blood sacrifice of Christ. In his theology you become at one with God and at peace with Him by literally being righteous as He is righteous. Literally. His is a works righteousness 'gospel' through and through.

Salvation is a work of God working THROUGH the saint. Entering into Christ empowers us to DO just as He did. IF we DO righteousness on that level we get a reward. Why? Because in Christ we produce a DOUBLE fruit (Ephraim). Jesus is BOTH God and man. And the saint produces treasure both old and new. No one gets any reward for being regenerated into a spiritual race. All run but one wins the prize.

Paul was against the works of the law for righteousness (Judaism). We were created to Do good works. You destroy our entire purpose for being. The only thing you want is salvation and forgiveness....for it's own sake...no purpose no glory.

 

[Episkopos]

It doesn't matter what kind of castle you are building...even a "hardcastle". Unless you are TAMIM....obedient to God as a child...you are building on sand and the whole structure will fall.

Only those who DO the will of God will live on with God. It doesn't matter what your spiritual condition is...whether regenerated or not. We are to DO the commandments. And the devil wants people to put their trust in a "saved" status by making GOOD works to seem BAD.

Not all who say Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom but those who DO the will of My Father.

 

[David1701]

It's easy to see what tree you eat from when you read.

Now, now, there's no need for nastiness.

 

[David1701]

The bible doesn't say that our feet are the only part that touches the word. (we are not allowed to use metamorphic allegories, remember?)

I said that our feet are the part of our body that constantly touches the world, in our walk. I did not say that our feet are the only part of our body that touches the world at all.

I also did not say that metaphors are "not allowed". I simply have a strong desire for truthful interpretation of God's word, not making things up to fit a particular viewpoint.

Being led by the Holy Spirit includes being truthful (very much so!), so please stop misrepresenting what I post. I've not been unkind to you, so there is absolutely no call for your attitude.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

This is to assume that the marital union is complete. Betrothal is conditional. Just like the "earnest" of the Spirit. Even the full measure of grace doesn't guarantee that we will be faithful. Those who are Christ's are called, chosen AND faithful.

Salvation is conditional. The promises are conditional. Many are called but few are chosen. Many will be rejected into outer darkness.

So what you're saying is the wife earns part of the husband's estate before they actually get married. But afterward it's all free.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Those who are Christ's are called, chosen AND faithful.

Salvation is conditional. The promises are conditional. Many are called but few are chosen. Many will be rejected into outer darkness.

Being faithful is the result of being called and chosen, not the way you get called and chosen. You bear the fruit of the tree in obedience because you are already that tree, not in order to become that tree.

Fruit identifies what tree you are, not makes you that tree.