SinSinSin...RepentRepentRepent...YackYackYack...

[justbyfaith]

According to YOUR beliefs.....get it?

Do you have any specific example that is evident the mods are acting outside the requirements of the forum rules?

Enforcing the rules of the forum is NOT putting them in spiritual danger...
Did you agree to them when you first joined?
If so, then you agree to abide by them....agree that moderators are necessary at times....agree that moderators take action as necessary.

I do my best to obey the rules myself of course...but I am concerned about where people begin to "go overboard in moderation", there may be problems. I have written more about this below.

Are you still saved when you sin ?

I believe that, yes, I am still saved when I sin. Because the law came 430 years after the promise and when it did it did not nullify the promise (Galatians 3:14-17). Therefore if I violate the law, the Holy Spirit is not going to leave me over it (see also Hebrews 13:5).

On a thread about sin and repentance we're defending our right to name-call?

Things that make you go, Hmmmmm.

What I was attempting to do was more along the lines of preserving freedom of speech on these boards...once moderators start deleting posts, where does it end? I have been on boards where the moderators go overboard in their "moderation" (sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it?) and in those situations I find that you can do hard labour to win a soul only to have your post deleted and that labour does nothing whatsoever because the soul in question never got to see your post. Very frustrating. And I think that the Lord also gets angry in those situations.

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you have any specific example that is evident the mods are acting outside the requirements of the forum rules?

No, not on these boards, thankfully.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

We all hold to a book that calls those who do not conform to it as “ungodly”.

Those who pervert it as “devils”.

Jesus called people “vipers”, told some their father was “the devil”.

I have been called a “heretic” before for simply believing what the Bible says (not on this board; at least not yet).

Hey, even Jesus was accused of having a devil in him...

If you are going to engage in discussion over a book like this, don’t be surprised when someone believing themselves holding faithfully to it call you something along those lines when you challenge something they believe is taught in that book.

I try to put myself in their mindset when engaging them and let those insults roll off my back.

Jeremiah 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?

In other words, if you can’t handle trouble from fellow believers, how are you going to handle the insults of the unbelievers?

I personally am not offended when bad treatment comes my way when engaging in hot topics like Once Saved Always Saved (which I believe is a false doctrine). But those who are convinced it is true think I am in error.

 

[justbyfaith]

Now @Michiah-Imla,

I'm interested in your take on John 5:24 (kjv).

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It seems to me that here, first of all, Jesus begins His statement by stating that He is speaking absolute truth here. Then, he shows forth the condition of a promise, the condition being, he that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me.

Then, the promise, which is three-fold: 1) we have everlasting life; which by definition is life that can never come to an end; otherwise it is temporal; 2) we shall not come into condemnation: this is absolute terminology saying we shall never be condemned; and 3) we have already passed from death into everlasting life; which indicates that everlasting life begins at the moment of first faith.

How do you perceive this scripture in light of your opinion that eternal security is not the reality of scripture?

Now, mind you, I believe that real faith is something that produces a change in the heart and life; so I am not promoting OSAS here but POTS; and there is indeed a difference between the two.

OSAS means that you can go forward at a church service or a Crusade and then live like hell afterwards and you will retain salvation;

POTS means that as a saint of God, you will persevere in that sainthood and will continue in His goodness to your dying day because of your faith in Jesus Christ.

OSAS, therefore, denies the reality of 2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)); while POTS affirms that basic truth.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I'm interested in your take on John 5:24 (kjv).

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This promise is to them that hear his word and believe. Absolutely, these faithful ones, who will never give in to the lusts of the flesh, will indeed persevere to the end.

POTS means that as a saint of God, you will persevere in that sainthood and will continue in His goodness to your dying day because of your faith in Jesus Christ.

I’ll admit, that after reading several of your posts, I researched “POTS” (because I never venture out of the scriptures, so some of the terms that are thrown around around here are alien to me) and I find POTS more agreeable to scripture than OSAS. More workable, in a sense. OSAS is odious to me.

To me, being anchored on the Bible is safe because whatever doctrine that is out there, if there’s any truth to it, will align with scripture anyway.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

There will be believers in hell with the unbelievers.

HEAR YE WHAT THE LORD SAITH:

Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

The whole point of the Parable is to say “keep looking for me at all times , and behave yourselves in a manner that you will not have to “ stand ashamed “ when I “ DO” return .....It has NOTHING to do with Salvation
Some Saved Believers are going to resemble the Damned on Judgement Day —- they are not going to get the Eternal Punishment awaiting the True Unbeliever......But they are going to get a share of it—- they will “shrink back” like the Unbeliever will do ....they will “stand ashamed” as they stand before God and be shocked and relieved that they “ made it” because their Behavior was wicked at times.....they made it because they had at least a “ Mustard Seed” amount of Faith....
God is going to be “ wiping the tears” of many Carnal Believers before He sets them Free to frolic in Heaven like calves set Free in the springtime .Those tears will be flowing from those that did not live Rightly as Jesus delayed His Return.” Don’t be like those that will be regretful and full Of Fear “ Jesus is saying .....why feel like a damned Unbeliever on that Day ? It does not Have to be that way! Straighten up....act right ....Behave as if I am going to return 5 minutes from now ....I just MIGHT! YOU will be the one that benefits from it !

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The whole point of the Parable is to say “keep looking for me at all times , and behave yourselves in a manner that you will not have to “ stand ashamed “ when I “ DO” return .....It has NOTHING to do with Salvation

While I disagree with you.

At least your response was respectful and a good defense on your part.

I appreciate that.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What you are ignorant of and leading people astray with is you do not accept that the Bible says that those who don't live like you describe above are not saved. They are of the devil.

1 John 3:7-8
let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. 8The one who practices sin is of the devil...

You have let million dollar ministry teachers deceive you into believing that John is wrong and that the one who practices sin can be of God because salvation is not by works. You do not believe 1 John 3:7-8.

Paul Ellis Of “ Escape to Reality “ Fame ( don’t go there if you are a “ baby Christian” ) explains this better than I can.......and as Far as my “ Millionaire Teachers” are concerned ....you typically reveal your IGNORANCE again......my #1 Teacher is an old , retired, small- time Cattle Rancher in Oklahoma named Les Feldick.....he knows a lot more about the Bible than you....you should really check him out.....he could help to get your eyes opened about many things....



———————————————————————————
So what is John talking about when he says no one who lives in him keeps on sinning? There are two ways to read this. Someone schooled in the sticks and carrots of the old covenant will interpret these words as a threat. “If you want to remain in him and stay saved, you had better stop sinning. Don’t be deceived. God is holy and intolerant of sin. Slip up and you’re outta here!”

What an awful distortion of God’s unconditional love! Can you imagine being married to someone who threatened to kick you out every time you made a mistake? You would be an emotional wreck. You would walk on eggshells for fear of upsetting your hyper-sensitive and ungracious partner.

Come to think of it, this is exactly how many Christians live. Since they don’t know what makes the new covenant new, they are filled with performance anxiety. They are ever fearful of enraging a temperamental God.

Look to the cross! If God loved you enough to die for you when you were a sinner, he surely loves you now. He didn’t stop loving you after you got saved and he will never kick you out. Your union with the Lord is not conditional on your behavior. In case we had forgotten this, John gives us a reminder:

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. (1 John 4:15, NKJV)

God abides, he dwells, he stays. The moment you acknowledged Jesus as Lord, he moved into your life and he will never leave.

John’s remarks about not sinning should not be read as a threat but promise. He is describing the new life that we have in Christ. Jesus didn’t sin and he never will. If you let him live his life through you, then without any conscious effort on your part you’re going to start talking and walking just like sinless Jesus. It’s inevitable. Live with someone long enough and you begin to resemble that person in manner and thought.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The reality is that if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4); and it is very true that this does not mean that we lose our salvation the moment we begin to walk according to the Spirit; as you seem to think.

I do not think that I am saved from hell by the work of sanctification that the Lord is doing within me. The work of sanctification is something that the Lord is doing within me because I have been saved from hell. I am forgiven solely by the shed blood of Christ; and my performance has absolutely nothing to do with my obtaining of that forgiveness.

The blood of Jesus does not only justify a man (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses from all sin (1 John 1:7).

It also, does not perform one of its functions (justify) without also performing the others (sanctify and cleanse).

I really don't see what your beef with me is. You wrote,



I do them; and I also do not believe or preach or teach that my doing of them is to my salvation.

So, what is your beef with me?

Ever since I took your challenge to show you in the Bible about repentance, and proved you wrong, you did not reward me with $1,000, as you said you would; but you rewarded me with a blot on my name...you accused me of being a false teacher ever afterward.

So, my question is, why did you make that challenge? You evidently thought that no one could prove you wrong. But when someone did, you did not change your mind about the false doctrine that you were espousing. Instead, you doubled down and accused the person who proved you wrong of preaching a "FALSE and PERVERTED" gospel. You were never open to anyone actually answering your challenge with anything of merit...and yet I came to you with scripture showing you that your contentions were wrong....I answered your challenge with biblical teaching and yet you did not ever accept that teaching but you doubled down and attacked the messenger ad hominem...which is a known faulty reasoning which nevertheless is very effective in the hands of the enemy.



I think that you ought to consider what it says in passages like 2 Corinthians 13:5 and Matthew 7:21-23.

There are many who think that they are saved but who, in fact, are not saved. They may say to Jesus, Lord, Lord; but when it comes down to it they are workers of iniquity who have never been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. If they had been, they would have been sanctified over time and would have ceased from sinning. They would have ceased walking in the flesh and would have begun to walk consistently in the Spirit. They would have become this = 1 John 3:5-9.

Scary verses are meant to put the fear of the Lord in people.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom.

It is to hate evil.



I understood it just fine...however I felt that there was more to the issue than just what you posted.

What is my “ BEEF” with you ? You talk out of both sides of your mouth....you say you agree with me about the uselessness of Works in regard to Salvation, as if you believe in Grace Plus Nothing for Salvation and then turn right around and preach your Accursed , Perverted “ gospel” of “ Lucky Repentance” , which says essentially that if I lived a Perfect life , yet bumped my head real hard and let out a curse word and then died of a sudden heart attack before I had the “ Luck” to say a quick, little prayer of “ I’m sorry, and I regret it and I will promise to the best of my abilities to never do it again”......I will suffer in the fires of Hell forever and ever! Utter Hogwash!

As for my $1000 challenge , I have decided to “ UP” it to $5000 because the only way you proved me “ wrong” was in your head ...... I” ll gladly send you $5.00 if you will just shut up about it! IT was NEVER about the #*#=#(#=# Money! I was trying to MAKE A POINT ! As usual.......Zoooom.......right over your head....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

[The reality is that if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4); and it is very true that this does not mean that we lose our salvation the moment we begin to walk according to the Spirit; as you seem to think.


If one has Salvation, it can’t be Lost .Why not ? “ there is now NO Condemnation for those That are IN Christ Jesus” or even better—- ( paraphrasing ) “ If you Believe in Me you ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and you shall NEVER come into CONDEMNATION ....please enlighten me with your best argument against “ that”....
You mentioned “ What I seem to think”.......please stop spreading Untruths about me ! I do NOT think one loses their Salvation when they “begin to walk according to the Spirit”. That “ Walk” ain’t the proper Walk Of Faith if you think that that “ walk” either “ GOT” you Saved or “ Keeps” you Saved .If your “ Walk” is just a prettied up word that describes a Performance That is making you “ good enough” in the eyes Of God to Merit Heaven—— THAT is where you and I part company....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Why? is it your prayer that I will never "get it"?

Jhn 15:17, These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Jhn 15:18, If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Jhn 15:19, If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Jhn 15:20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Jhn 15:21, But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Jhn 15:22, If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
Jhn 15:23, He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
Jhn 15:24, If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Jhn 15:25, But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

I pray that you will "get it" all of the time...

Thanks.....if your idea of me “ getting it” includes your Perverted , false gospel of “ Lucky Repentance” .....please leave me out.....
It is nit my prayer that YOU will never get it....I pray that you do....it’s just that you are not the first Tare that I have dealt with ....you are a “ spreader Of Leaven” , and it is my intention to expose you for what you are....I hate to see Newbies get ruined by Legalists.....
Renounce your “ Lucky Repentance” false, Damnable Doctrine and lerhaps we can become brothers —- not until then.....
“A little Leaven leavens the whole batch”.......Leaven destroyed many, if not ALL of the churches Paul founded in Asia Minor.....if it destroys this Site , it will be over my Dead Body....

 

[Waiting on him]

How Is Narcissism Diagnosed?



Narcissistic personality disorder (narcissism) is diagnosed using The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) criteria. A person must meet five of nine of the following traits for a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder.

1. A grandiose sense of self-importance
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. Belief that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a sense of entitlement
6. Is interpersonally exploitative – takes advantage of others
7. Lacks empathy
8. Envies others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors and attitudes

What Is the Treatment for Narcissism?


Treatment for narcissistic personality disorder (narcissism) can be difficult but therapy can often help. Types of therapy include:

• 
  

 

[Waiting on him]

Humility is not thinking meanly of yourself, it’s not thinking of yourself at all.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I am not trying to come off as an “ Apple polisher”, but this is for everybody out there —- I have been to a BUNCH of these Christian Forums over the years and this place is BY FAR the most “ hands- off” Site I have ever seen .....The Mods here actually kinda sit back and treat people like adults and let things work themselves out on their own .....99% of the time, the Believers here will come to their senses and things will take care of themselves ......God’s Spirit resides here at this site, and even the most flawed Christian will rein Himself or herself in before too long.....perhaps even “ ME” someday....lol.....
I have seen Terrible Foes become friends overnight with just the slipping in Of “ one” kind word “ .....one kind word has a way of turning into another....
For the most part, this Site has Mods that seem to not even exist.....most other sites have Mods that seem obligated to stick their noses into every dialogue and debate , seeming to thrive on Drama and/ or Power......this is the wisest, most mature Site I have found .....I am grateful for it..... May God bless the people that operate this place....and put up with the likes of me....and YOU! Lol.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Maybe. It can also mean you didn't even care to try. And that it's okay that you didn't resist in any way because that would be you trying to earn your own salvation. What a stupid theology. That's the teaching I resist with all my being. It's leading countless astray in the church. You know you're led astray by it when you see that neither you nor God has been successful at leading you out of your sin......and you don't care because to care would be you not trusting God but you trying to save yourself. Again, what a stupid teaching. It appeals to the flesh of a person, not the spirit. It excuses the flesh in the name of grace. It's a horrible trampling of the Son of God.



The only thing “ Stupid” here is your interpretation of things.....and we all know that when it comes to “ stupidity” ......there ain’t no cure....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do I understand this correctly????
Do you believe you have to work your way into heaven?

No, I don't believe works earn your way into heaven.

"Works" come as a result of salvation.

That is what I believe. That's why, ultimately, if a person has no works there is no salvation present to motivate those works. That's why each of us has to examine ourselves to see that we are really in the faith. It's too easy to deceive ourselves into thinking we are saved while we purposely dwell comfortably in the same life we had before we were supposedly saved. And the church doesn't tell us that means you're not really saved. It tells us you are saved because salvation is not by works. Oblivious to the fact that salvation is accompanied by the works that spring from salvation, or else it really isn't salvation.

"Works" is a desire put into every Christian by the Holy Spirit.

Exactly. Which is why you have to wonder where God and your salvation is if you don't have those works in your life. But the church tells us not to worry about that because salvation is not by works.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The only thing “ Stupid” here is your interpretation of things.....and we all know that when it comes to “ stupidity” ......there ain’t no cure....

Oh, I don't know. I think salvation is a good cure for stupidity. Worked for me.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

How Is Narcissism Diagnosed?



Narcissistic personality disorder (narcissism) is diagnosed using The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) criteria. A person must meet five of nine of the following traits for a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder.

1. A grandiose sense of self-importance
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. Belief that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a sense of entitlement
6. Is interpersonally exploitative – takes advantage of others
7. Lacks empathy
8. Envies others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors and attitudes

What Is the Treatment for Narcissism?


Treatment for narcissistic personality disorder (narcissism) can be difficult but therapy can often help. Types of therapy include:

Oh, I don't know. I think salvation is a good cure for stupidity. Worked for me.

Many would disagree with your self-assessment ....lol....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...and as Far as my “ Millionaire Teachers” are concerned ....you typically reveal your IGNORANCE again......my #1 Teacher is an old , retired, small- time Cattle Rancher in Oklahoma named Les Feldick..

You mean "million dollar ministry". That's what I said.
Total revenue for Les Feldick ministries was $9,238,163.00 in 2017.

les feldick net worth - Google Search

Apparently, it's over $10 million now.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You mean "million dollar ministry". That's what I said.
Total revenue for Les Feldick ministries was $9,238,163.00 in 2017.

les feldick net worth - Google Search

Apparently, it's over $10 million now.

Nothing inherently wrong with that.....you wont find him in a Cadillac or a private jet or living in a mansion or anything close to that .....he loves raising cattle—- not money. Been listening to him for years ....have yet to hear him try to raise money.....