Six demons in the girl

[newlife]

This was clearly possession which involved paranormal phenomenea, including psychokinetic activity. It also suggests the risks involved in exorcism and deliverance. The effotrs at exorcism were unsuccessful and eventually the young lady died. She would slam her self against walls and onto the floor, chew stones and was severely malnourished. Her parents and the 2 priests were convicted of manslaughter due to negligence with the sentence reduced to probation. Anneliese was treated for epilepsy, given psychotropic medications and was psychiatricaly hospitalized but her condition worsened. I t was predictable that the state would and did regard this woman as psychiatrically disturbed with delusions and hallucinations tainted by her conservative Roman Catholic beliefs and upbringing. The underlying philosophy of modern society is naturalism and a denial of a spiritual world and the results in the legal system were predictable and could well have been harsher then they actually were.

Although Anneliese Michels' case received considerable notoriety it is by no means unique in the literature on modern possession.

 

[ATP]

This was clearly possession which involved paranormal phenomenea, including psychokinetic activity. It also suggests the risks involved in exorcism and deliverance. The effotrs at exorcism were unsuccessful and eventually the young lady died. She would slam her self against walls and onto the floor, chew stones and was severely malnourished. Her parents and the 2 priests were convicted of manslaughter due to negligence with the sentence reduced to probation. Anneliese was treated for epilepsy, given psychotropic medications and was psychiatricaly hospitalized but her condition worsened. I t was predictable that the state would and did regard this woman as psychiatrically disturbed with delusions and hallucinations tainted by her conservative Roman Catholic beliefs and upbringing. The underlying philosophy of modern society is naturalism and a denial of a spiritual world and the results in the legal system were predictable and could well have been harsher then they actually were.

Although Anneliese Michels' case received considerable notoriety it is by no means unique in the literature on modern possession.

Naturalism, that's a good point.

 

[LightMessenger]

God would never allow someone to be possessed by demons to prove to the Church that they exist. When the Son has set us free, we are free indeed. John 8:36. These spirits speaking out of the girl are liars just as Satan is a liar and the Father of lies. I hope that the Church has learned something from it... :unsure:

That is correct. He wouldn't allow full possession but only if the person was a Born Again Christian as many leading preachers and top evangelists have declared. They have said that once a person is Born Again, that is Saved, they cannot be possessed. They may however become "obsessed" if they're not careful.

 

[ATP]

They have said that once a person is Born Again, that is Saved, they cannot be possessed. They may however become "obsessed" if they're not careful.

That's correct LM, very good.

 

[LightMessenger]

Rom 9:22-23 NIV What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—


I don't believe at all that she was saved. She was raised Roman Catholic for crying out loud. This was possession in the highest degree.

That has been my main concern as it relates to Catholics. They simply do not teach that a person MUST become Born Again thus, Saved in order to be able to enter into Heaven at their appointed time. I have spoken to Catholic priests with whom I was just floored when they told me that they did not read the Bible! Thus, Catholics today are imperiled without knowing that they have to give their life to and accept Jesus Christ as their LORD and Savior in order to become saved and Born Again. Their denomination simply does not teach that as they believe that with mere baptism you are saved. That is erroneous. That will not save anyone. It is of course good to become baptized and everyone should certainly do it by following Jesus' example but that, in and of itself, does not save you according to the Holy Bible. Thus, we must pray for them to see the light and become Born Again Christians by giving their life to Christ.

 

[ATP]

That has been my main concern as it relates to Catholics. They simply do not teach that a person MUST become Born Again thus, Saved in order to be able to enter into Heaven at their appointed time. I have spoken to Catholic priests with whom I was just floored when they told me that they did not read the Bible! Thus, Catholics today are imperiled without knowing that they have to give their life to and accept Jesus Christ as their LORD and Savior in order to become saved and Born Again. Their denomination simply does not teach that as they believe that with mere baptism you are saved. That is erroneous. That will not save anyone. It is of course good to become baptized and everyone should certainly do it by following Jesus' example but that, in and of itself, does not save you according to the Holy Bible. Thus, we must pray for them to see the light and become Born Again Christians by giving their life to Christ.

Well, I would submit that possession isn't focused on one religion. Demons don't care who you are or what age you are. They just want everyone dead, lol.

 

[LightMessenger]

Well, I would submit that possession isn't focused on one religion. Demons don't care who you are or what age you are. They just want everyone dead, lol.

You are very correct on that! That is their main goal and objective to destroy the lives of people whom God has created. But Catholics do need to become very aware of the fact that they MUST become Born Again before they pass away or their lives will be imperiled forever. I so wish there was a way to announce that to Catholics world-wide so that they would have the opportunity to save themselves.

 

[newlife]

Annaliese calimed that the Virgin Mary appeared to her and told her that she would be given an opportunity to do penance for lost souls to prevent their eternal damnation into hell and that if she agreed to this she would greatly suffer. She would be given 3 days to make her decison and within this period all of the demonic activity ceased. Satan is a great decever and I suspect that Annaleises vision of Mary walking beside her and telling her this supposedly noble plan was itself an expression of demonic subterfuge.

 

[ATP]

Annaliese calimed that the Virgin Mary appeared to her and told her that she would be given an opportunity to do penance for lost souls to prevent their eternal damnation into hell and that if she agreed to this she would greatly suffer. She would be given 3 days to make her decison and within this period all of the demonic activity ceased. Satan is a great decever and I suspect that Annaleises vision of Mary walking beside her and telling her this supposedly noble plan was itself an expression of demonic subterfuge.

That's a really good point also.
I remember watching that at the end of that movie.
As we all know Mary is dead and in her grave, and dead people know nothing.
The devil is the father of lies.

Eccl 9:5 NIV For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

Eccl 9:10 NIV Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[LightMessenger]

That's a really good point also.
I remember watching that at the end of that movie.
As we all know Mary is dead and in her grave, and dead people know nothing.
The devil is the father of lies.

Eccl 9:5 NIV For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

Eccl 9:10 NIV Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

I most certainly do not subscribe to the assertion that Mary is dead and in her grave. When the Mother of Jesus, thus, of God, made her transition from this life to the next, she (as do other people), stepped right into her spiritual body and continues her life in the Afterlife. God may have well granted her other privileges as well. Most people will go to a lower level of the Afterlife due to being mortal sinners but Mary obviously went direct to the highest plane in the Afterlife to be with Jesus.

As for her being "dead" and knowing nothing. Nothing could be farther from the truth. She knows more than you and I know in her new spiritual body. It seems that you and others are saying that you don't believe there is life after death. If that is so, you are very wrong because there is and the Bible exemplifies that.

One need look no farther than to LUKE 23:43 where Jesus tells one of the malefactors on the cross right next to Him:

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” -- LUKE 23:43 (KJV)​

​

That was Jesus speaking. The Son of God who KNOWS, most assuredly, if there is an Afterlife or not. There unequivocally is! Stop to think, if there wasn't an Afterlife and people just stayed in their graves after their physical death then there would be little need to become Born Again/Saved so that their soul would not be imperiled in the Afterlife.

And it may interest you to know that there are at least 88 passages in the Holy Bible that speak to the Afterlife.

As to Mary being 'dead' and in her grave, No She Isn't! She is even more alive today that ever! In fact, she has even been photographed when she makes appearances on Earth. I have a document (book) that shows the pictures of her appearances in her spiritual body and they are such a miracle to behold! The pictures have also been documented and authenticated. If you are in doubt about that and interested in knowing more about this, I would be happy to provide you with the name of the book and the author where the photographs they took of Mary are contained. She comes down to visit us from time to time and there can be no doubt that she spoke to the three shepherd children at Fatima who went on to relay her messages to the world. The Blessed Virgin Mary LIVES! God bless her always and forever!

But so that you do not have to wait to get the book, here is the story that you can read as well as SEE the pictures of her appearances to millions for yourself. Notice how brilliantly white and pure she is in her spiritual body denoting high and great spiritual manifestation.

The Apparitions Of The Blessed Holy Virgin Mary
To Millions In The Coptic Orthodox Church
Named After Her, In Zeitoun,
Cairo, Egypt (1968-1970)

http://www.zeitun-eg.org/zeitoun1.htm

 

[ATP]

When the Mother of Jesus, thus, of God, made her transition from this life to the next, she (as do other people), stepped right into her spiritual body and continues her life in the Afterlife.

Incorrect. The Hebrew and Greek translation for spirit is "breath" and "wind". How can breath and wind obtain a body? Rather, the dead simply sleep in Jesus.

1 Thess 4:14-17 NIV For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

One need look no farther than to LUKE 23:43 where Jesus tells one of the malefactors on the cross right next to Him:

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” -- LUKE 23:43 (KJV)​

Incorrect. If you research the original doctrines of the NT, you will see that there is no punctuation. I would submit that it is translator bias. Also, the word paradise describes a place on the New Earth, Rev 2:7, Rev 22:2, Rev 22:14 and Rev 22:19. When you remove the comma you can see that Jesus was simply comforting the thief on the cross. We also see in verse 42, that the thief was only interested in coming into his kingdom. The thief was not concerned about when he would be there, rather just being there was what he wanted.

The correct way to witness verse 43 is this, with no punctuation. If you're adding punctuation the correct place to put it is after today, being that Jesus was only comforting him..

Luke 23:43 NIV Jesus answered him Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise

Luke 23:42-43 NIV Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ” 43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

- ATP

 

[LightMessenger]

Incorrect. The Hebrew and Greek translation for spirit is "breath" and "wind". How can breath and wind obtain a body? Rather, the dead simply sleep in Jesus.

1 Thess 4:14-17 NIV For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.


Incorrect. If you research the original doctrines of the NT, you will see that there is no punctuation. I would submit that it is translator bias. Also, the word paradise describes a place on the New Earth, Rev 2:7, Rev 22:2, Rev 22:14 and Rev 22:19. When you remove the comma you can see that Jesus was simply comforting the thief on the cross. We also see in verse 42, that the thief was only interested in coming into his kingdom. The thief was not concerned about when he would be there, rather just being there was what he wanted.

The correct way to witness verse 43 is this, with no punctuation. If you're adding punctuation the correct place to put it is after today, being that Jesus was only comforting him..

Luke 23:43 NIV Jesus answered him Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise

Luke 23:42-43 NIV Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ” 43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

- ATP

You are completely incorrect with what you say. In light of the Proof shown to you through that website and the photographs showing that the Blessed Virgin Mary is alive and was seen by millions and can make appearances here on earth when she so wills, no one should ever say that she is not alive and discount her appearances and speak wrong of her again. That is sinful as she is Jesus' Mother.

 

[ATP]

You are completely incorrect with what you say. In light of the Proof shown to you through that website and the photographs showing that the Blessed Virgin Mary is alive and was seen by millions and can make appearances here on earth when she so wills, no one should ever say that she is not alive and discount her appearances and speak wrong of her again. That is sinful as she is Jesus' Mother.

Those photographs are not proof. They are silly websites spewing false garbage.

 

[LightMessenger]

Those photographs are not proof. They are silly websites spewing false garbage.

May the Blessed Virgin Mary see what you have dishonestly and nastily said about her and her miraculous appearances.

 

[ATP]

May the Blessed Virgin Mary see what you have dishonestly and nastily said about her and her miraculous appearances.

You follow silly websites that lead you astray. The best way to search for truth is through Hebrew and Greek hermeneutics. It is the only answer.

 

[FHII]

You follow silly websites that lead you astray. The best way to search for truth is through Hebrew and Greek hermeneutics. It is the only answer.

Light messenger, I agree with very few things ATP says (hebrew greek hermeneutics included), but I gotaa stand with hin on this one. IF Mary ever really did appear and have a message for anyone it be, "quit asking me for help, quit praying to me and quit looking for me! Look to my son!"

Seroliously, I'll never understand why Catholics do this... yes, great woman! Even to be admired for her strength and faith. But she can't save you and she isn't taking prayer requests. Why would you even want to when you can ask Jesus himself?

 

[ATP]

Light messenger, I agree with very few things ATP says (hebrew greek hermeneutics included),

Why do you disagree with hebrew greek hermeneutics. What else do you disagree with from me? :wacko:

 

[FHII]

Why do you disagree with hebrew greek hermeneutics. What else do you disagree with from me? :wacko:

Perhaps I misunderstand your point of view, but the reason is because the bible has already been translated and interpretated. I see many people grabbing their Strongs or Thayers in an attempt to find a different meaning to a bible verse that irks them. In doing so they are attempting to make the bible line up with their doctrine instead of the other way around.

I believe there is a place for concordance. But it isn't to rewrite the bible.

 

[ATP]

Perhaps I misunderstand your point of view, but the reason is because the bible has already been translated and interpretated. I see many people grabbing their Strongs or Thayers in an attempt to find a different meaning to a bible verse that irks them. In doing so they are attempting to make the bible line up with their doctrine instead of the other way around.

I believe there is a place for concordance. But it isn't to rewrite the bible.

If I did something wrong, please let me know. But yes, I agree here.

 

[FHII]

If I did something wrong, please let me know. But yes, I agree here.

I appreciate your humbleness. An example is found in this thread when you spoke of the spirit being breath or wind. The spirit is a bit more than that. Furthermore, jesus' spirit is now in earthen vessels: the body of Christ which is one body of many members. I will have to check on this, but john the baptist was said to have elijah's spirit. Furthermore, God breathed into adam. So, yes... wind and breath can indeed enter into a body. If nothing else, everyone who claims the holy spirit has entered them is wrong.

Overall you were right. Mary isn't talking to anyone! I do believe she's a part of the cloud of witnesses (though not acknowledged in hebrews 11 ), but that's the extent of her witness. Overall, I like your answer to the post, just not the method of getting there: which is that spirit is wind or breath.

Furthermore, in the English language punctuation is a must (lets eat grandma!). Tranlator's bias? Don't think so!

See what I'm saying?
Again, if I misunderstood your intentions or reasoning, I apologize.