Smoke Screens?

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stunnedbygrace

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I am so excited I have a day off and can speak with you guys without having to just pop in during breaks and can speak with you at my leisure! There is no place I'd rather be than here with you guys. :)

I have a story.

A young woman, newly married, was having her mother-in-law over for dinner. She was very nervous, as she wanted the woman to like and accept her. She fussed over what she would serve. She discussed a menu for days with her husband, who kept saying, you're a wonderful cook, whatever you decide to make, my mother will love it!

The evening came, and the MIL arrived very early. This flustered the young woman, but she got the MIL a drink and sat her at the kitchen table so they could talk while she got the roast ready to put in the oven.

She got out her roasting pan, removed the meat from the wrapper, cut off the end of the roast and threw it in the trash, popped the roast in the oven and set the timer.

She sat down at the kitchen table and the MIL had a confused look on her face, and she said, dear, why did you cut off the end of the roast and throw it in the trash...? The daughter in law replied, because that's the proper way to cook a roast...

Well, a great argument ensued, with the MIL thinking the young woman made no sense and was wasting her son's hard earned money. And the young woman thought the MIL was a pushy control freak who had no idea of the correct way to cook a roast.

When the son (and husband) came home from work, he was miserable. Here were the two women he loved most in the world and he didn't know where all of the tension had come from that was between them, but it broke his heart.

After dinner, he told his mother which room they had prepared for her to sleep in but she announced that she didn't want to put them to any trouble and had got a hotel room. He said he would drive her but she said she had called a cab to come and get her.

The cab arrived, there were tense and cold pleasantries exchanged and the MIL left.

The wife immediately told her husband the whole story and fumed over the rudeness of his mother toward her.

The husband asked, well...why is the end of the roast cut off before cooking?

His wife couldn't answer that except to insist that she knew it was just the correct way to cook a roast. And then, she and her husband had tension between them and the young woman was even more distraught.

She called her mother to cry on her shoulder about the disastrous dinner and her mean MIL.

After her mother heard the whole story, she said, but dear, why did you cut off the end of the roast and throw it away...?

The daughter said...because that's the way YOU always did it so I just knew it was correct!

The mother laughed and said, oh no...I remember! When you were little, I had one roasting pan, a small one. The roast would never quite fit, so I would cut off the very tip so it would not hang over and drip juice and grease onto the bottom of the oven!
 

GodsGrace

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It is easy to get things exactly backwards. And I must say that you are very capable in that regard. :) You are being consistent.

You said we should glory in Christ's work on the cross as per Paul?

Actually the work of Jesus is to our shame...not glory. And Paul was glorying in the power of the cross...to his loss...on himself....not on Jesus or any other.

It's funny how a wrong understanding makes reading skills go out the window.

Here's what Paul actually said...

Gal. 6:14 But as for me, may I never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Was Paul glorying in the death of Jesus? No, only the devil would glory in that. Paul, as any follower of Jesus, glories that he HIMSELF partakes of the the cross of Jesus Christ. (Not the cross FOR Jesus Christ).


So then he takes on Christ's sufferings and death onto himself. What HR would call works.

And why would Paul desire to see this death? So that the life also of Christ might be upon Him. That He might enter into the grace of Christ Jesus in order to walk as He walked.
This came to mind:
The devil might have gloried in Jesus' death....
until the resurrection.

(the devil does not foreknow the future, like God does).
 
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Episkopos

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In my opinion, God wants us to trust in what His Son did on the cross. That is the message Jesus gave to Paul.

You can trust that Jesus was crucified. It is reported in the 4 gospels and elsewhere in the bible...AND Josephus makes a comment about it. Then there is this shroud that perhaps also has a bearing on this.

But believing what happened historically to Jesus has no saving merit whatsoever. You are putting all your eggs in the wrong basket.

The devil also trusts that Jesus died for the whole world. And all the people of Jerusalem at that time would have trusted in His death too. But that didn't save them. There is no..."I take this death and claim it for myself"...kind of like Colombus arriving in a foreign land and planting his flag on it claiming it away from the natural residents thereof.

Pure bombast. As your whole approach to the faith is. It is bombastic and self-serving.

We can't claim a sacrifice from God for ourselves. That would be like a flea claiming the scalp it landed on.

Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God...not our lamb. If you were sacrificing your own lamb as per the OT....then perhaps you could say...I trust that the lamb I sacrificed, as per the law, saves me from my sin.

So you are making 2 huge errors...The first is in claiming that Jesus Christ is your lamb to sacrifice for yourself (and even glorying in His death). He is not yours to dispense with as you please.

The second is that you are making grace into a law. As if you get to put yourself under grace.

Only God can translate us miraculously into the kingdom of His Son. You can't put yourself in an advantageous position through your belief. So you are exaggerating a religious opinion and somehow making it into a biblical faith...or at least trying to.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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GH, I see that you liked the story!
What did you like about it? What did you take away from it?
 

Grailhunter

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GH, I see that you liked the story!
What did you like about it? What did you take away from it?

First off I have told this story in Church. The reason I told it was to try to open the minds of people.
Just to keep it simple....just because it happened you don't have to keep doing it, and you might want to
know why they did it to begin with. You do make pies right?
 

stunnedbygrace

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First off I have told this story in Church. The reason I told it was to try to open the minds of people.
Just to keep it simple....just because it happened you don't have to keep doing it, and you might want to
know why they did it to begin with. You do make pies right?

Oh, I was hoping you were still here!
Who do you think the daughter in law in the story is? She the people you tell the story to in church, correct?

Is the daughter in law also you and me?
 

Grailhunter

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Oh, I was hoping you were still here!
Who do you think the daughter in law in the story is? She the people you tell the story to in church, correct?

Is the daughter in law also you and me?

People chose their demonstrations in different ways...family connection...the people that came to the front door...the pretty church,
the closest church...a lot ways. I do not think the story pertains to you or me. I do not do the bumper sticker thing...but if did it
would say...think before it is to late.
 

Helen

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.I believe that Christianity is a living religion...so there is more information outside the Holy Bible.
Confining the religion to the covers of the Holy Bible makes it stagnated.

And for that my new friend. (on this forum ) you will be lumped in with some of us , and called many names...hope you are ready for that :)...some of us also believe that God is not confined to only speaking and teaching via The Book. You will find out who they are , in time.

I warn you, there are some vicious “Christians” :rolleyes: on here...(they called themselves so, anyway. )
I have them on the Ignore feature. Dare to say that in living the two Love commands that Jesus left us fulfills the 10 given by Moses and the cry heretic goes up.

I believe mankind can not ever be ‘good enough’ for God , ever, unless hidden in Christ. The amazing, powerful blood of The Last Lamb slain, washes us white as snow. There is no other way.

But....if you stick with this forum long enough , you will find out things, and who is who .
Also you will learn who you can disagree with and have fun in doing so...and those who are rude and ‘ugly’ with it.
A thick skin is needed....but ‘for me’ this is still the best forum on the net. :)

Enough from me....that is all just my opinion and observation.
God bless.....Helen
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Here is what I had hoped everyone would take from the story.

Is it necessary to prove that you are right, or is it necessary to love and bear with your family? How would the story have possibly ended differently if both women had determined to love, accept and bear with each other for the good of the whole family, rather than tear the family apart with their own hands and refuse to love until such a time as they could agree on everything?

You do see from the story that one of the women had a wrong understanding. She was doing as she had seen and was doing out of learned habit. But you also see from the story that the woman who was right to question why, was also wrong, because she didn't first love her family member.
 

Grailhunter

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And for that my new friend. (on this forum ) you will be lumped in with some of us , and called many names...hope you are ready for that :)...some of us also believe that God is not confined to only speaking and teaching via The Book. You will find out who they are , in time.

I warn you, there are some vicious “Christians” :rolleyes: on here...(they called themselves so, anyway. )
I have them on the Ignore feature. Dare to say that in living the two Love commands that Jesus left us fulfills the 10 given by Moses and the cry heretic goes up.

I believe mankind can not ever be ‘good enough’ for God , ever, unless hidden in Christ. The amazing, powerful blood of The Last Lamb slain, washes us white as snow. There is no other way.

But....if you stick with this forum long enough , you will find out things, and who is who .
Also you will learn who you can disagree with and have fun in doing so...and those who are rude and ‘ugly’ with it.
A thick skin is needed....but ‘for me’ this is still the best forum on the net. :)

Enough from me....that is all just my opinion and observation.
God bless.....Helen


Helen, You have met a man that was born without a fear bone. That fact has been documented many times in my life.
When it comes to defending God...I took a very serious oath to do that. I have friends from many denominations and
respect many, go to church with them and fellowship with them. But there are exceptions.
 
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H. Richard

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It is easy to get things exactly backwards. And I must say that you are very capable in that regard. :) You are being consistent.

You said we should glory in Christ's work on the cross as per Paul?

Actually the work of Jesus on the cross is to our shame...not glory. And Paul was glorying in the power of the cross...to his own loss...on himself....not on Jesus or any other.

It's funny how a wrong understanding makes reading skills go out the window.

Here's what Paul actually said...

Gal. 6:14 But as for me, may I never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Was Paul glorying in the death of Jesus? No, only the devil would glory in that. Paul, as any follower of Jesus, glories that he HIMSELF partakes of the the cross of Jesus Christ. (Not the cross FOR Jesus Christ).


So then he takes on Christ's sufferings and death onto himself. What HR would call works.

And why would Paul desire to see this death? So that the life also of Christ might be upon Him. That He might enter into the grace of Christ Jesus in order to walk as He walked.

You got it wrong. Satan does not glory in the cross because Jesus' work on the cross defeated Him.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Helen, You have met a man that was born without a fear bone. That fact has been documented many times in my life.
When it comes to defending God...I took a very serious oath to do that. I have friends from many denominations and
respect many, go to church with them and fellowship with them. But there are exceptions.

Is your job to defend God? Or is your job to love God and love your neighbor even to the laying down of your life of pride?
 

Episkopos

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You got it wrong. Satan does not glory in the cross because Jesus' work on the cross defeated Him.



Which shows your position is also defeated. Satan indeed gloried in the cross because he misunderstood it. But you are misunderstanding it as well. So then your doctrine ties you to a spiritual defeat...ironically...at the cross.

But there is still time for you to surrender yourself to Christ and embrace the cross of Christ in your own life...so that you might live unto God.

Why get things backwards all the time? Just try everything you think is right...but in reverse. Perhaps you will find that for the first time you are moving forward! :)
 
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Grailhunter

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Which shows your position is also defeated. Satan indeed gloried in the cross because he misunderstood it. But you are misunderstanding it as well. So then your doctrine ties you to a spiritual defeat...ironically...at the cross.

But there is still time for you to surrender yourself to Christ and embrace the cross of Christ in your own life...so that you might live unto God.

Why get things backwards all the time? Just try everything you think is right...but in reverse. Perhaps you will find that for the first time you are moving forwards! :)

I will tell you the same thing...I politely ask you not to talk to me so that I may remain polite.
 

Episkopos

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I will tell you the same thing...I politely ask you not to talk to me so that I may remain polite.


I think you are under some delusion...I'm not talking to you. It would be a waste of time seeing you have a tremendously high opinion of yourself which only the deluded would share.