So, are Daniel 7:25 and Amos 8:11-12 related in prophecy?

[Randy Kluth]

It's the only answer I can give you Randy, as I don't seem to be making myself clear. It must be me.

Don't worry about it. You've raised some issues, that I wished to address. But I'm not sure if you were comparing how different Bible versions differed, or how Christian leaders had drifted away from the original Bible rendering?

I said: So part of my problem with this has been, I can't see where you're getting these versions, or statements. I don't know if they're a Bible version, or some preacher misquoting the text?

When you quote some of these statements I'm unable to see where they are coming from? Can you tell me if they are Bible versions, or quotes from your preaching, or from others preaching? My computer layout simply is not able to see smaller print without going to great lengths. And I don't have time for that.

 

[The Parson]

Don't worry about it. You've raised some issues, that I wished to address. But I'm not sure if you were comparing how different Bible versions differed, or how Christian leaders had drifted away from the original Bible rendering?

Neither Randy. You're assuming I'm pointing textural translation issues, and I'm not. I'm pointing out that the KJV, along with others have been SUPERNATURALLY changed. Not with an editors pen, or by an apologist opinions, but in the supernatural realm.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Neither Randy. You're assuming I'm pointing textural translation issues, and I'm not. I'm pointing out that the KJV, along with others have been SUPERNATURALLY changed. Not with an editors pen, or by an apologist opinions, but in the supernatural realm.

Yea, I've heard you say that. And you're right, I've made some false assumptions that you've been trying to correct.

But again, you don't answer the question that's critical for me to get it right. Where are your quotations coming from? Whenever we quote things, it's our responsibility to give proper credits. I cannot read the pics that apparently give those credits.

So again: every time you quote something, I need to know where it is coming from? If I'm to understand a "supernatural change" has taken place, I need to know the following:

1) Is this supernatural change from Satan or from God?
2) Are the quotes indicating this change coming from corrupt ministers or from well-meaning ministers who are making errors?
3) What is the net effect of those who are making these conscious or unconscious changes?

I'm a bit thick. I need things crystal clear before spouting off. As you can see, I've already gotten things wrong. So one last time: can you answer these questions? Otherwise, I'll just let it go. It seemed worthwhile addressing. But now I'm doubting this.

 

[The Parson]

But again, you don't answer the question that's critical for me to get it right. Where are your quotations coming from? Whenever we quote things, it's our responsibility to give proper credits. I cannot read the pics that apparently give those credits.

Those quotations, for the most part are from google books search. More specifically 19th & 18th century books, with a few more modern exceptions. They seem to be unaffected by these changes for whatever reason under the sun. Lord knows. There are too many authors who are in agreement about what these verses used to say from the King James bible.

1) Is this supernatural change from Satan or from God?
2) Are the quotes indicating this change coming from corrupt ministers or from well-meaning ministers who are making errors?
3) What is the net effect of those who are making these conscious or unconscious changes?

1. from Satan, which by my reckoning, retrospectively from the spirit of antichrist.
2. the quotes are reflecting the agreement of Christian authors, and sometimes even direct Bible quotes themselves as to how the King James used to read.
3. to wear out (vex) the saints of God. Daniel 7:25 and to eliminate the Word of God as we know it! Amos 8:11-12

 

[The Parson]

I'm a bit thick. I need things crystal clear before spouting off. As you can see, I've already gotten things wrong. So one last time: can you answer these questions? Otherwise, I'll just let it go. It seemed worthwhile addressing. But now I'm doubting this.

You don't seem thick to me... You seem just as cautious as I would be if the shoe were on the other foot...

 

[Randy Kluth]

Those quotations, for the most part are from google books search. More specifically 19th & 18th century books, with a few more modern exceptions. They seem to be unaffected by these changes for whatever reason under the sun. Lord knows. There are too many authors who are in agreement about what these verses used to say from the King James bible.

1. from Satan, which by my reckoning, retrospectively from the spirit of antichrist.
2. the quotes are reflecting the agreement of Christian authors, and sometimes even direct Bible quotes themselves as to how the King James used to read.
3. to wear out (vex) the saints of God. Daniel 7:25 and to eliminate the Word of God as we know it! Amos 8:11-12

Thanks for explaining. Yes, I thought you were referring to negative, satanic changes. I would've liked to know who the specific authors were, but that's less important at this point. You think there was some kind of gradual erosion of God's word in history? I do think that these kinds of things were happening, although I don't know anything in regard to how the Scriptures were specifically being handled.

Obviously, there are outright bad liberal Christians, or even cultic Christians. And there are also good Christians who piggy back onto existing errors without being aware of it. At any rate, it sounds like an interesting study. Thanks for making us think about it.

I do think the battleground is God's word, whether the written word of God or God's word spoken to our hearts. True and good Christianity is one that recognizes this battle, and is willing to participate in it.

 

[Oseas]

Soooo, who is this referring to?

Good question. Interesting question.

The scriptures have riddles or deep riddles (enigmas) to be deciphered. I enjoy deciphering biblical enigmas so much, do you?

I know that in front of you JESUS is who speaks, but who is the one who speaks behind you?

The answer of your question "who is this referring to?" we find in Revelation 2:v.18 combined with Revelation 1:v.12 to 16, combined with Isaiah 30:v.21 and Ezekiel 3:v.12. Isaiah prophesied about him: For instance, Isaiah chapters 49 and 50 among other Scriptures. There are two Redeemers according Ruth chapter 4 linked with Gentile and Jewish people. Great mystery.

Remember, I am speaking of biblical enigmas to be deciphered, I think its wonderful.

God bless

 

[Oseas]

Matthew 25:v. 29

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

 

[The Parson]

Thanks for explaining.

You're welcome.

Yes, I thought you were referring to negative, satanic changes.

I was and am.

You think there was some kind of gradual erosion of God's word in history?

I do, without a doubt.

I do think that these kinds of things were happening, although I don't know anything in regard to how the Scriptures were specifically being handled.

Lord knows!

Obviously, there are outright bad liberal Christians, or even cultic Christians. And there are also good Christians who piggy back onto existing errors without being aware of it. At any rate, it sounds like an interesting study. Thanks for making us think about it.

This is where you lost me again Randy. Even though, we've had scripture's being messed with throughout the ages, this phenomenon is locally recent. And not the result of some "human" cultist, liberal Christians meddling with the scriptures. It's the direct result of demonic spirits messing with what was written, and changing it to something that it wasn't.

I do think the battleground is God's word, whether the written word of God or God's word spoken to our hearts. True and good Christianity is one that recognizes this battle, and is willing to participate in it.

God bless you sir. That's my prayer... Again though, I won't argue with you here, but as of yet, you really haven't gotten the full gist of what I've been trying to relate to you.

 

[Oseas]

Soooo, who is this referring to?

Referring to post # 187, in addition to the various clues contained therein, we can add Daniel 7: v.13-14:

13 - I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like (very similar) the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they (they whom????) brought him near before Him. (John saw this one face to face: Rev. 22:v.8-9 -
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel
which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.)
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Rev.2:v.27)

Daniel 7:v. 22
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and Judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Daniel 7:v. 27-28
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

 

[The Parson]

28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

If you don't mind my asking, what version exactly are you posting from???

 

[Oseas]

If you don't mind my asking, what version exactly are you posting from???

I try to use the most requested version in the Christian environment, the KJV, to speak the same language, but particularly I have no problem or difficulty with versions of the Bible, I do not depend on this variations of biblical versions, through any of them I understand what is the intention of the Spirit explicit in the text .

There is a list of biblical versions on the Biblegateway website that I consult and copy here in the messages because they are versions used and researched in the environment of the believers.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You're welcome.
I was and am.
I do, without a doubt.
Lord knows!
This is where you lost me again Randy. Even though, we've had scripture's being messed with throughout the ages, this phenomenon is locally recent. And not the result of some "human" cultist, liberal Christians meddling with the scriptures. It's the direct result of demonic spirits messing with what was written, and changing it to something that it wasn't.
God bless you sir. That's my prayer... Again though, I won't argue with you here, but as of yet, you really haven't gotten the full gist of what I've been trying to relate to you.

I think I do. You're saying that Satan is the one who is meddling with God's written word--the Antichrist spirit. You're saying that as the end approaches, Satan is preparing the way by disturbing how the Scriptures are being perceived. Am I right?

 

[The Parson]

I think I do. You're saying that Satan is the one who is meddling with God's written word--the Antichrist spirit. You're saying that as the end approaches, Satan is preparing the way by disturbing how the Scriptures are being perceived. Am I right?

Eureka, you got it!!! Hot dog. I thought I was just trying to relate like a bowling ball relates to a golf club. Thank you...

 

[Randy Kluth]

Eureka, you got it!!! Hot dog. I thought I was just trying to relate like a bowling ball relates to a golf club. Thank you...

No, you hit all the pins. Hole in one.

 

[The Parson]

I try to use the most requested version in the Christian environment, the KJV, to speak the same language, but particularly I have no problem or difficulty with versions of the Bible, I do not depend on this variations of biblical versions, through any of them I understand what is the intention of the Spirit explicit in the text .

There is a list of biblical versions on the Biblegateway website that I consult and copy here in the messages because they are versions used and researched in the environment of the believers.

And how well versed are you to the King James. More specifically, the wording?

 

[The Parson]

No, you hit all the pins. Hole in one.

So if I said; My people perish for lack of knowledge", what would you say that means?

 

[The Parson]

 

[Randy Kluth]

So if I said; My people perish for lack of knowledge", what would you say that means?

In my own personal experience, it was when I stopped listening to and obeying God's word to my heart that I became sort of "deaf" to what God was saying. I went my own way, and began to "perish" for lack of knowledge. That is, I wasn't listening to what I needed to hear to live, spiritually, and to experience the blessing of God's favor.

I don't know to what degree Satan has been able to tamper with how Christians have been quoting or interpreting the Scriptures. I'm sure Satan uses all means at his disposal to hide the truth from the world so that they don't turn to obedience to Christ.

There is a limit to which Satan can obstruct the purpose of the Gospel, however. After all, God does want people to be saved from their sins. To do this God has chosen to use the Church, along with their obedience to His word. If the Church does *not* obey God's word, then all the preaching in the world won't make a difference. And I'm sure the true meaning of the Scriptures will be lost.

My biggest problem with Christian quotation of the Scriptures was my experience, as a youth in the Lutheran Church. They spoke of the Scriptures in a very "wooden" way, as more of a liturgy than a worship of God. It was a recitation of the Scriptures, more of a worship of Scriptures, than an actual obedience to them. And so, as a Lutheran, my understanding of Scriptures was limited.

Still, it got through to some extent. It put enough of a guilt trip on me that I listened to other Christians who were more obedient in their faith, who got the Scriptures *right.*

 

[The Parson]

In my own personal experience, it was when I stopped listening to and obeying God's word to my heart that I became sort of "deaf" to what God was saying. I went my own way, and began to "perish" for lack of knowledge. That is, I wasn't listening to what I needed to hear to live, spiritually, and to experience the blessing of God's favor.

I don't know to what degree Satan has been able to tamper with how Christians have been quoting or interpreting the Scriptures. I'm sure Satan uses all means at his disposal to hide the truth from the world so that they don't turn to obedience to Christ.

There is a limit to which Satan can obstruct the purpose of the Gospel, however. After all, God does want people to be saved from their sins. To do this God has chosen to use the Church, along with their obedience to His word. If the Church does *not* obey God's word, then all the preaching in the world won't make a difference. And I'm sure the true meaning of the Scriptures will be lost.

My biggest problem with Christian quotation of the Scriptures was my experience, as a youth in the Lutheran Church. They spoke of the Scriptures in a very "wooden" way, as more of a liturgy than a worship of God. It was a recitation of the Scriptures, more of a worship of Scriptures, than an actual obedience to them. And so, as a Lutheran, my understanding of Scriptures was limited. Still, it got through to some extent.

Outstanding analogy brother. But that's not what the King James Bible says now. You did see those examples in the previous post didn't you? According to the sources of those books, they were King James quotes. However, the King James now says: Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

"Perish", as being the same as dying, in the process, now it says "are destroyed", as in done deal. They're dead...