So how are we seeing right now?

[aspen]

I thought this might add to the discussion. I think seeing God face to face reveals who we really are and for some, the shock can kill them

 

[Hidden In Him]

I thought this might add to the discussion. I think seeing God face to face reveals who we really are and for some, the shock can kill them

LoL. I think most are approaching the subject from the perspective of actually wanting to know. Good or bad, I can promise you I am, but as for everyone else, they'll have to speak for themselves. ;)

 

[aspen]

LoL. I think most are approaching the subject from the perspective of actually wanting to know. Good or bad, I can promise you I am, but as for everyone else, they'll have to speak for themselves. ;)

Yes. I think we want to look, but are terrified to do so! I had to be on camera during my counseling sessions during graduate school and it was mortifying seeing that stranger, who was me, on the tv while the class critiqued my session! I got used to it over time and even started liking the guy

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes. I think we what to look, but are terrified to do so! I had to be on camera during my counseling sessions during graduate school and it was mortifying seeing that stranger, who was me, on the tv while the class critiqued my session! I got used to it over time and even started liking the guy

A ha Ha! :) He's a pretty good guy, he just takes getting used to, LoL.

I know how you feel. I've been doing some taping off and on over the last two months. But I got over it pretty quick. Now I watch myself and think, "You know what? On camera... I'm kinda cute" LoL.

But then, I should probably qualify that by adding, "... for a 54 year old man, anyway."

 

[ScottA]

Glass in the KJV:
e[soptron Esoptron (es'-op-tron);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Neuter, Strong #: 2072

1. a mirror
   1. the mirrors of the ancients were made, not of glass, but steel

KJV Word Usage and Count
glass 2

Darkly in the KJV:

ai[nigma Ainigma (ah'-ee-nig-ma);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Neuter, Strong #: 135

1. an obscure saying, enigma, riddle
2. an obscure thing

KJV Word Usage and Count
darkly

Face in the KJV (from face to face):

provswpon Prosopon (pros'-o-pon);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Neuter, Strong #: 4383

1. the face
   1. the front of the human head
   2. countenance, look
      1. the face so far forth as it is the organ of sight, and by it various movements and changes) the index of the inward thoughts and feelings
   3. the appearance one presents by his wealth or property, his rank or low condition
      1. outward circumstances, external condition
      2. used in expressions which denote to regard the person in one's judgment and treatment of men
2. the outward appearance of inanimate things

KJV Word Usage and Count
face 55
person 7
presence 7
countenance 3
not translated 1
miscellaneous 5

To in the KJV (from face to face):
provß Pros (pros);
Word Origin: Greek, Preposition, Strong #: 4314

1. to the advantage of
2. at, near, by
3. to, towards, with, with regard to

KJV Word Usage and Count
unto 340
to 203
with 43
for 25
against 24
among 20
at 11
not translated 6
miscellaneous 53
vr to 1

And then several Bible translations of a single verse from the writings of Apostle Paul:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12 [KJV]

"For we see now through a dim window obscurely, but then face to face; now I know partially, but then I shall know according as I also have been known." I Cor 13:12 [Darby]

"We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know I part; but then I shall know even as I am known." I Cor 13:12 [Douay Rheims]

"For the present we see things as if in a mirror, and are puzzled; but then we shall see them face to face. For the present the knowledge I gain is imperfect; but then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." I Cor 13:12 [Weymouth]

"Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; who then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." I Cor 13:12 [NIV]

"for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known;" I Cor 13:12 [Young's]

Has anyone gone one up on Paul at the time of his writing with a "face to face" vision?
Remember that according to what God had Solomon write a thousand years before Jesus was born to Mary in Bethlehem a vison is quite necessary:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish... " Prov 29:18

I'll make no comments at the moment, but rather wait to se where others believe that they or we are now.

Because Jesus (the Bread come down from heaven) has come in the flesh and also gone to the Father in spirit, there is no more face to face in the flesh. It is finished. So then, as Paul explained his own experience as not being face to face but with Christ who had risen in the spirit, even one who has been caught up in the spirit while the world remains, does not see face to face, but rather just what is revealed. For which Paul was also correct to say that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom", and that to live as he was in the world but also caught up in the spirit, "to live for me is Christ", for he knew both in part.

So is it with all whom are used by God, and why what is given, is given [in part] "line upon line, precept upon precept."

 

[OzSpen]

No. The context is NOT clearly in Heaven, since the apostle-prophet John made it crystal clear that genuine prophecies ceased after he completed the Revelation. See Revelation 22. There cannot be any more genuine prophecies for Christians.

What Christians should remember is that:
1. The New Testament was written as a continuous document, and chapter and verse divisions were not present in the Greek manuscripts.
2. Many of the chapter and verse divisions are not totally accurate in how they separate different topics.
3. In 1 Corinthians 13 there are three different topics which follow each other, and if we keep that in mind there will be no confusion. So let's look at that chapter.

Enoch,

The NT was NOT 'written as a continuous document'. It was written one book at a time and later compiled into the NT. Those are the historical facts.

What does Revelation 22:18-19 (ESV) teach?

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.​

The error you seem to be making is regarding these 2 verses as applying to the whole of the Bible. Please remember that John, under the inspiration of the Spirit, did not write the Book of Revelation, knowing it was the to be the last book of the NT. He wrote it as an individual book.

Therefore, taking away or adding to the 'prophecy of this book' means that it refers to 'this book' of Revelation. When the NIV translates these 2 verses, using a meaning-for-meaning, dynamic equivalence approach to translation, it accurately translated them as:

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll (NIV).​

See 'How was the Bible Written and Transmitted'.

Oz

 

[amadeus]

You're also making it say, "God shall add to him every plague written in the entire Biblical cannon," which would actually make you the one adding to the book, would it not?

It would seem my friend that there are some who say that can see, but in reality are not only blind but appear to be deluded as well. Is that possible?

 

[amadeus]

I thought this might add to the discussion. I think seeing God face to face reveals who we really are and for some, the shock can kill them

Aye! When are able to see ourselves clearly in the mirror it can be a shocking event. Perhaps this is why God made it so until a person actually has attained to a place where he can see "face to face".

 

[Hidden In Him]

It would seem my friend that there are some who say they can see, but in reality are not only blind but appear to be deluded as well. Is that possible?

Hey, buddy. Honestly, Amadeus, whenever I read these threads it creates a desire in me for greater manifestations of the supernatural. Unless there is more go on than just opinion in these discussions, all we will ever end up doing is going round and round in circles with each other. I don't really blame those who've had no experience of the gifts or the baptism, since according to their experience there are no such things any longer. What is needed are objective proofs...

I know what the future holds, and the only thing that consoles me is that the Lord will honor those who taught correctly when all is said and done. But we live in dark times for the church. It's tough having to live through it.

 

[amadeus]

Hey, buddy. Honestly, Amadeus, whenever I read these threads it creates a desire in me for greater manifestations of the supernatural. Unless there is more go on than just opinion in these discussions, all we will ever end up doing is going round and round in circles with each other. I don't really blame those who've had no experience of the gifts or the baptism, since according to their experience there are no such things any longer. What is needed are objective proofs...

I know what the future holds, and the only thing that consoles me is that the Lord will honor those who taught correctly when all is said and done. But we live in dark times for the church. It's tough having to live through it.

Unfortunately, those who won't believe because of lack of personal experience are displaying a negative faith. They don't believe it can happen, so of course it cannot. That when it comes back to asking and seeking and knocking. Is that not simply stepping out in faith, but if a person believes that faith doesn't work where to then...? "According to your faith be it unto you"!