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Solving the mistery of the trinity.

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by denny123, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    It certainly is an appearance of God.

    Genesis 18:1 (NKJV)
    [sup]1 [/sup]Then THE LORD APPEARED TO HIM by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day.

    Genesis 18:13-14 (NKJV)
    [sup]13 [/sup]And THE LORD SAID TO ABRAHAM, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?' [sup]14 [/sup]IS ANYTHING TOO HARD FOR THE LORD?
     
  2. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    That is all YOU ever do!
     
  3. Vengle53

    Vengle53 New Member

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    In post #93 I said that Christ is our superlative example of this: James 4:7 “Submit your selves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

    John 13:15 "For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you."

    Matthew 23:11-12 " But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."

    That is the prime point of Philippians 2: 5-11 even though you all ignore it so that you can squeeze what was said trying to prove your Trinity.

    Do not expect everyone to be willing to do that along with you.


    Think so? LOL.
     
  4. jacobtaylor

    jacobtaylor New Member

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    An Angel called Jehovah? Please look at the scripture. Verse 1 [sup]1[/sup] Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre,
    Verse 13 And the LORD said to Abraham,
    Verse 14 Is anything too hard for the LORD?

    [sup]17[/sup] And the LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing, [sup]18[/sup] since Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? [sup]19[/sup] For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the LORD, to do righteousness and justice, that the LORD may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him.” [sup]20[/sup] And the LORD said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, [sup]21[/sup] I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”

    Walking in grace its pretty clear this is no angel. But what does become clear is your own fanciful; embellishments. By simple deduction we can see its not an Angel, by deduction we know that no man has seen God. This LORD, Jehovah who appeared to Abraham can only be Jesus. Also Abraham is Gods servant to which He chose to make His message to the creation known to the whole earth. He did that in person, the image of Jesus. When God said let us make man in OUR image, the image known as Jesus was already present just as Paul says in Colossians.


    So now we know just what you believe. Its the same as JW.

    You have a problem with your embellishments in Col and Gen 18.The problem is they don't support your non trinity view, which in a nut shell denys Jesus His proper authority before He humbled himself and was born in the likeness "flesh" of man.
    Its now clear to me who's been adding one's own fanciful; embellishments.
     
  5. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Tell us wig, do you also deny the eternal Hell as JW's do?
     
  6. Anastacia

    Anastacia New Member

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    Now I know why you like to tell others that they are "silly, silly, silly." You are probably repeating what you have heard about yourself for years. I'm really going to stay away from you now.
     
  7. Vengle53

    Vengle53 New Member

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    God never did anything from the beginning but through his Son. Why would he now do anything different?

    The point remains in tact that all things were created through Jesus and for Jesus and are held together in Jesus by God's good pleasure with his Son.

    That is what Colossians 1:19 is saying: "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"

    That word translated "fulness" is like the fulness of a harvest. It denotes that from the get-go everything that was done by God was done in Jesus, even using Jesus like the cement or glue to hold it together.

    Since God never did anything directly of himself but always through the Son of His Love, it is rediculous to think He would suddenly do differently.
     
  8. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
    [sup]16 [/sup]FOR BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
     
  9. jacobtaylor

    jacobtaylor New Member

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    So which is it? Your dancing the two step again. Jesus tells the woman at the well that the Father is Spirit. Paul tells us that all of creation was called into being threw Jesus, Col 1:15-18 the manifestation of God the Father before anything was ever created. To make it simple for you. God manifest Himself in substance that substance was the image of Himself threw which He spoke creation into being, that image was Jesus, that Image presented Himself to Abraham as Jehovah, that Image latter left His divine image to be born into the fallen flesh of man called Jesus. Jesus did not receive His divinity as a man HE GAVE IT UP TO BECOME A MAN.
    Its evident below, you can't accept that the Father is Spirit and what we call His Son is the manifestation of the Father in this world of substance know as the creation of the heavens and earth.

    I've shone you Jehovah appeared to Abraham had dinner, had his feet washed and for all practical purpose was the same looking as any other man. That should not surprise us because God said let US make man in our image.
     
  10. Vengle53

    Vengle53 New Member

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    Same thing, "through" or "by". The Greek pronoun is "en", literally meaning "contained within". So if you want to be precise you must see it as "For IN him all things were created.

    That is why I said from the get-go that is how God did things. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

    It would be pointless to add "without him was not any thing made that was made" if Jesus were himself God.

    Now there at John 1: 3 the Greek preposition used is "dia" and litterally means "through" as a channel. We derive words like disect from it, which means to cut a channel through or between things.

    This is how God has always done it. All things begin with something but God. Jesus began with God. Proverbs 8:22-23 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." (KJV)

    The scriptures tell us that God has no beginning. Now you can scoff at the Bible In Basic English translation or you can look to find out why: Proverbs 8:22 "The Lord made me as the start of his way, the first of his works in the past." (BBE)

    The word "possessed" in the KJV version of that verse (as in other Bibles) is the Hebrew word "qanah" which is a primitive root; meaning more precisely "to erect, i.e. create; by extension, to procure, especially by purchase (causatively, sell)".

    The Trinitarian influence has since bolstered that to by implication "to own". That can only be true with the understood sense of having been previously purchased. This is much the same issue as occurs with the Greek "parousia" that assumes both an arrival and a pressence with after that arrival.

    Whether you like it or not, the clearest and most reliable evidence of scripture is that Jesus had a beginning whereas God did not.

    And hiding your head in a hole so you do not have to see that is not going to change it.

    God made Jesus. Then God allowed Jesus (giving him all power to do so) to make all things in Jesus.

    And you cannot change that.
     
  11. Anastacia

    Anastacia New Member

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    That is what Bud02 and I discussed in the other thread and you said it was false!!! You reprimanded the two of us all over the place for saying that!
    But here is where you are in error is by saying Jesus is not God...God creating Jesus from the beginning...was God creating Himself visible.
     
  12. jacobtaylor

    jacobtaylor New Member

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    What is God the Fathers name? Or what name is He refereed to in the OT?
    If you were a JW in my house I would take your own bible and show you Gen 18 Jehovah.
    Long story short Jesus is the only representation of Jehovah that mankind has ever known. He, Jesus is the manifestation, not created image of God.
     
  13. Anastacia

    Anastacia New Member

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    Walking in Grace,
    You need to go back to this thread http://www.christian...h__1#entry92217 and reread what Bud02 and I discussed. Then you need to apologize for trying to slander us and use scripture against us, all the while acting so smug and arrogant.
     
  14. TexUs

    TexUs New Member

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    This crap is still going on?
    Does Walking even claim to be a Christian??????????


    "God was the Word" is clear as freaking day.

    In Hebrews 1:8 GOD THE FATHER even calls GOD THE SON, GOD:
    But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
     
  15. Vengle53

    Vengle53 New Member

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    Did you miss what I wrote about that verse in a previous post? Do you even understand that the context of Hebrews chapter one is discussing the throne of David that Christ was given? Do you understand that the companions talked about were the line of earthly kings that had sat on that throne over God's people? Do you not understand that God never spoke that way to an angel because it was to men that he spoke it?

    Hebrews 2:5 ¶For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
    6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
    7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
    8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
    9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
    10 ¶For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
    11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    After centuries of men butchering both Psalms 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8 adding their O's before the word God to impress themselves how good they were one would think you would have seen through such arrogance of man by now.

    Psalms 45:6-7 "God, is thy throne for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

    That is the correct exegesis and if you would take the time to explore the ancient Israelite view of their thrones support and operation you would know that.

    Go ahead and deny it.
     
  16. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Jesus created everything but He isn't God??? You are SOOOOO confused!
     
  17. jacobtaylor

    jacobtaylor New Member

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    Davids throne is all about taking back what was lost in the fall of Adam. It has little to do with who created all things in the first place.

    You also said.
    you made your point you don't care.
     
  18. Vengle53

    Vengle53 New Member

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    Very important point you make Jacob T.

    And that is why when we examine it we learn how the throne that it foreshadows functions.

    So do that.
     
  19. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Although, I am a big fan of placing love ahead of doctrine - purposely teaching heresy is wrong.

    All the major heresies throughout Church history have started with redefining the true nature of God as the only all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present, Triune Godhead.

    Christ's divinity is an essential part of this doctrine.

    Abandoning the doctrine of the Trinity is equal to abandoning Christianity.
     
  20. Vengle53

    Vengle53 New Member

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    You have your own definition of slander evidently.

    The thread you post here is interesting in ways but yet represents attempts to rationalize while holding on to wrong ideas.

    There is no substitute for understanding when it comes to what we were given to understand.

    Whether you or anyone likes it or not I am a true minister taught of Christ and have at this point only given you a nibble of what I am taught, not of men but of God.
     
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