Solving the mistery of the trinity.

[Duckybill]

My church cannot be taken from me by man. My love and worship of God has not at all been dependent on any visible church. And many have ridiculed me for that. My church has always been free:

Those who deny that Jesus is God don't have a church or salvation.

2 John 1:9-11 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. [sup]10 [/sup]If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; [sup]11 [/sup]for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

 

[Vengle53]

Here is a link to a very good article with very good information that I think all should read. I did NOT do a study on who made this article, nor did I do a study on all their other beliefs. So, I cannot say I support all the beliefs of the people, or person who wrote this article (if any one ventures off on to the other articles on the site). But I do think it is an excellent article about Jesus being God in the flesh. Here is the link to the article:

http://www.jesus-is-...om/jesusgd2.htm

I assume nothing about you. You are not my burden to have to worry about. In the end we all answer as individuals before Christ. So I just share with you. And i thank you for being willing to share with me.

The article you here posted is a collection of views similar to what I explained to you about Romans 8:9. If you go back through the posts on this thread you will see that someone else first brought Romans 8:9 up to me and they saw it as saying that Christ's spirit and God's spirit are one and the same. But if one knows how to understand Romans 8:9 (seeing that the "ye" and the "you" are plural in the Greek refering not to individuals but to the entire body of Christ) then it becomes clear that Christ's spirit is Christ's love for his Father and for his Father's righteousness as well as Christ's hatred for lawlessness. It is clear that spirit of Christ keeps the body holy so that God's Spirit can dwell in it. And it is clear that Christ has his own unique spirit directed of his will through which he lives the greatest commandment as the superlative example to us how we ought to also.

Everything in that article is shallow interpretation that falls short of having really understood what was written in the scripture just as many do with Roman 8:9.

Perhaps I may take time to present a concise comment on each of the verses that article notes, but is anyone here really interested and willing to consider it?

I mean look at Ducky's post #81. Does it really seem to you that he cares to know he is wrongly using that scripture? I think not.

I was scolded by someone in an earlier post as though I had done that same thing to Text-Us, but if you go back to his post before mine you would see it was Text-Us that had leveled that against me just as Ducky has here in post #81.

There are those that want to learn. There are those that don't care to learn. And there are those that think they have already learned. Each one will bear his own burden before Christ.

 

[Vengle53]

I will condense my comments one point at a time on the article “Jesus Christ is God Incarnate”.

"...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is,

GOD WITH US." --MATTHEW 1:23”

Where they error in understanding what was there said is that they apply it differently in Jesus day than it was applied in the day it was written. In the day it was written the child was not God himself but given as a symbol or sign that God was yet with the people (as in not having deserted them).



Read the entire account in Isaiah. Look for what Emmanuel meant for them in that day. Then apply it forward to Christ in the same way.



Yes, Jesus is to us (or more specifically, to Israel) Emmanuel, God’s seal (or, sign) that “God is with us”; God has not abandoned the true Israel.



Romans 9:29 “And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.”

 

[Vengle53]

"NOT the NIV, NKJV, NASB, TLB, RSV, et al-they

corrupt this precious truth.

They are part of a ghastly array of

hundreds of Satanic modern-day Bibles. "

That is panic. There is some truth to what they say, but also great exaggeration and emotional hatred. They are not sticking to the scriptures own warnings and alerts but adding to them with their own fears. This does not portray the spirit that is of God. It spreads emotional reactiveness rather than peace.

 

[Duckybill]

I mean look at Ducky's post #81. Does it really seem to you that he cares to know he is wrongly using that scripture? I think not.

I was scolded by someone in an earlier post as though I had done that same thing to Text-Us, but if you go back to his post before mine you would see it was Text-Us that had leveled that against me just as Ducky has here in post #81.

There are those that want to learn. There are those that don't care to learn. And there are those that think they have already learned. Each one will bear his own burden before Christ.

And there are antiChrists who deny Jesus/God who run from direct questions, like you do. Still waiting.

Jn 1 The Word was God. The Word became flesh ...

John 20:28-29 (NKJV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And Thomas answered and said to Him, "MY LORD AND MY GOD!"

John 21:17 (NKJV)
[sup]17 [/sup]And he said to Him, "LORD, YOU KNOW ALL THINGS; YOU KNOW THAT I LOVE YOU."

 

[Anastacia]

My replies to Walking in Grace in blue.

I assume nothing about you. You are not my burden to have to worry about. In the end we all answer as individuals before Christ. So I just share with you. And i thank you for being willing to share with me.
Thank you for the thanks!

The article you here posted is a collection of views similar to what I explained to you about Romans 8:9. If you go back through the posts on this thread you will see that someone else first brought Romans 8:9 up to me and they saw it as saying that Christ's spirit and God's spirit are one and the same. But if one knows how to understand Romans 8:9 (seeing that the "ye" and the "you" are plural in the Greek refering not to individuals but to the entire body of Christ) then it becomes clear that Christ's spirit is Christ's love for his Father and for his Father's righteousness as well as Christ's hatred for lawlessness. It is clear that spirit of Christ keeps the body holy so that God's Spirit can dwell in it. And it is clear that Christ has his own unique spirit directed of his will through which he lives the greatest commandment as the superlative example to us how we ought to also.
God and Jesus Christ have the same Spirit. I have given you many scriptures showing you this. Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 14:23 If you don't understand after reading that powerful and beautiful scripture....then what scripture will you believe?

Everything in that article is shallow interpretation that falls short of having really understood what was written in the scripture just as many do with Roman 8:9.

You shouldn't of called it shallow. So let's talk about what you say about Romans 8:9. I definitely see what you are saying about it, but it does not prove your beliefs. Tell me, can you have the Spirit of Christ, yet not have the Spirit of God in you? Please answer that.


Perhaps I may take time to present a concise comment on each of the verses that article notes, but is anyone here really interested and willing to consider it?
You are trying to prove that Jesus is not God in the flesh....it would be uncomfortable to read what you post. But it could help me debate someone with a belief like yours in the future.


I mean look at Ducky's post #81. Does it really seem to you that he cares to know he is wrongly using that scripture? I think not.

I think you have falsely judged Ducky.

I was scolded by someone in an earlier post as though I had done that same thing to Text-Us, but if you go back to his post before mine you would see it was Text-Us that had leveled that against me just as Ducky has here in post #81.

That was me pointing out to you that you DO use scripture against us. You have used many scriptures against us. You should stop doing that.

There are those that want to learn. There are those that don't care to learn. And there are those that think they have already learned. Each one will bear his own burden before
And you might have more or less all those types in you.


Christ.

 

[Anastacia]

Walking in Grace,

Since you are big on the plurals, read Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit..

Now, how many Spirits does it say we will receive? You say we receive God's Spirit AND we have to have Jesus' Spirit as if they are two different Spirits.

And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. Romans 5:5

Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. Acts 2:33

The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. Acts 10:45

Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." Galatians 4:6

whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, Titus 3:6

So how many different Spirits do you believe we get baptized with?

 

[Vengle53]

God is the only Saviour.

Jesus is the only Saviour.



"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside



...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1

me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

Isaiah 43:10-11 “Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”



Here is where men get into playing word games. We need to ask ourselves a few questions. Did Jesus speak of himself as the source of the strength that saves us?



Do you recall that Moses was not permitted of God to enter the Promised Land after he took credit to himself for splitting the stone and providing water for the people? Did Jesus do that? John 10:29 “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.”







Yet Moses was being used of God to save God’s people, just as Jesus. At that time the name of Moses was the highest name given “under heaven” to whom people had to look if they desired salvation. Today that highest name given “under heaven” is Jesus. Acts 4:12 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”



John 14:28 “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”



Ponder and think:

Hebrews 3:1”Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.”


We know that the Father built all things through his Son and for his Son, because of his good pleasure in his Son.


Many miss that the prophet greater than Moses Peter spoke of in Acts chapter 3 was Jesus. They mistakenly think it refers to John the Baptist. It is similar with Acts chapter 7. Some among you do know it was Jesus. For those that have not before understood this it is time that you do. For those of you that do understand this it is time for you to do more with that understanding.



Jesus does not usurp his Father as savior. Jesus perfectly operates in his Father’s will by means of his Father’s power to do that saving and never takes the credit to himself. Jesus is his Father’s channel whereby that saving is accomplished.

 

[Anastacia]

Isaiah 43:10-11 “Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”



Here is where men get into playing word games. We need to ask ourselves a few questions. Did Jesus speak of himself as the source of the strength that saves us?



Do you recall that Moses was not permitted of God to enter the Promised Land after he took credit to himself for splitting the stone and providing water for the people? Did Jesus do that? John 10:29 “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.”







Yet Moses was being used of God to save God’s people, just as Jesus. At that time the name of Moses was the highest name given “under heaven” to whom people had to look if they desired salvation. Today that highest name given “under heaven” is Jesus. Acts 4:12 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”



John 14:28 “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”



Ponder and think:

Hebrews 3:1”Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.”


We know that the Father built all things through his Son and for his Son, because of his good pleasure in his Son.


Many miss that the prophet greater than Moses Peter spoke of in Acts chapter 3 was Jesus. They mistakenly think it refers to John the Baptist. It is similar with Acts chapter 7. Some among you do know it was Jesus. For those that have not before understood this it is time that you do. For those of you that do understand this it is time for you to do more with that understanding.



Jesus does not usurp his Father as savior. Jesus perfectly operates in his Father’s will by means of his Father’s power to do that saving and never takes the credit to himself. Jesus is his Father’s channel whereby that saving is accomplished.

None of what you posted here proves your beliefs that Jesus isn't God in the flesh. And, it seems all through what you posted here, that you forget the fact that Jesus DID come as a man.
As for the scriptures you bring up in Acts 3 and 7, put the whole scripture references so that they can be easily found. You want us to look them up, but you don't look up the chapter and verse?? If it is the scripture I think it is....just because you had not known something about it, that doesn't mean others don't either. And how does it support your beliefs that Jesus isn't God the Son?

 

[Vengle53]

Walking in Grace,

Since you are big on the plurals, read Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit..

Now, how many Spirits does it say we will receive? You say we receive God's Spirit AND we have to have Jesus' Spirit as if they are two different Spirits.

And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. Romans 5:5

Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. Acts 2:33

The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. Acts 10:45

Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." Galatians 4:6

whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, Titus 3:6

So how many different Spirits do you believe we get baptized with?

I commend the effort to understand that I can see in what you here say. But Greek had its own grammar rules which we must abide to correctly understand it whether we like it or not and whether the results agree with what we would like to believe or not. One cannot just ignore them for to do so is to ignore what the writer has really said. I think you are a reasonable enough person that you would agree with that.

The text you point to here is another excellent one that we can use to help us get the sense of reasoning within the Greek grammar.

Let's consider it calmly and deliberatly:

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of [the group or bunch designated as] you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and [the group or bunch that do this designated as] ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto [the children of Israel designated as] you, and to your children [yet unborn], and to all that are afar off [as lost sheep], even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Does that help?

 

[Vengle53]

None of what you posted here proves your beliefs that Jesus isn't God in the flesh. And, it seems all through what you posted here, that you forget the fact that Jesus DID come as a man.
As for the scriptures you bring up in Acts 3 and 7, put the whole scripture references so that they can be easily found. You want us to look them up, but you don't look up the chapter and verse?? If it is the scripture I think it is....just because you had not known something about it, that doesn't mean others don't either. And how does it support your beliefs that Jesus isn't God the Son?

Your comment is well taken.

I know the struggles, the vexations, the emotional tug of war that goes on inside us as we unravel ourselves from the understanding we formed amidst a sort of desperation to feel saved and grow closer to learning things accurately as they are.

It is not an easy battle because our flesh in its weakness has latched onto things so tightly in its effort to find security. Being willing to do that wrestling and not give up is a huge part of what constitutes the true Israelite of the promise, distinguishing him or her from those who were only Israelites according to a fleshly birth. This is because only those with strong faith and love will be willing to do so.

That the thought has been presented places before you to consider over time. We ought to know by now how often we do not understand things immediately. Who but we sinful humans know that better? That is why even Christ was put through that learning (accept without sin hasselling him and interfereing with his ability to learn). So we do know that our high priest understands and on that basis we need not be anxious about our struggling to understand knowing he will not desert us.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment [or, poses a negative restraint]. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

 

[Duckybill]

Here is where men get into playing word games. We need to ask ourselves a few questions. Did Jesus speak of himself as the source of the strength that saves us?

Jesus is the ONLY Savior. You don't get to the Father unless you go through Jesus.

John 14:6 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Do you recall that Moses was not permitted of God to enter the Promised Land after he took credit to himself for splitting the stone and providing water for the people? Did Jesus do that? John 10:29 “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.”

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (NKJV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, [sup]2 [/sup]all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, [sup]3 [/sup]all ate the same spiritual food, [sup]4 [/sup]and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

Yet Moses was being used of God to save God’s people, just as Jesus. At that time the name of Moses was the highest name given “under heaven” to whom people had to look if they desired salvation. Today that highest name given “under heaven” is Jesus. Acts 4:12 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

Is God the Savior or not? Make up your mind.

John 14:28 “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

Ponder and think:

Hebrews 3:1”Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.”

God calling His Son God:

Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]But TO THE SON HE SAYS: YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

Many miss that the prophet greater than Moses Peter spoke of in Acts chapter 3 was Jesus. They mistakenly think it refers to John the Baptist. It is similar with Acts chapter 7. Some among you do know it was Jesus. For those that have not before understood this it is time that you do. For those of you that do understand this it is time for you to do more with that understanding.

Jesus does not usurp his Father as savior. Jesus perfectly operates in his Father’s will by means of his Father’s power to do that saving and never takes the credit to himself. Jesus is his Father’s channel whereby that saving is accomplished.

Isaiah 9:6-7 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER, Prince of Peace. [sup]7 [/sup]OF THE INCREASE OF HIS GOVERNMENT AND PEACE THERE WILL BE NO END, Upon THE THRONE OF DAVID and over His kingdom,

Luke 1:31-33 (NKJV)
[sup]31 [/sup]And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. [sup]32 [/sup]He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID. [sup]33 [/sup]And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and AND OF HIS KINGDOM THERE WILL BE NO END."

 

[Vengle53]

Revelation 1:2 “Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.”



James 1:1a “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ …”



Many see summations as Jude’s seen here below and think that it is Jesus Christ that is being spoken about:



Jude 1:24-25 “Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.”

This puts us in mind of Jesus' words at John 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."


These confused ones have built a volume of what they perceive as sound evidence to support their ideas, thus complicating the task of helping them see the reality. For every small piece I or another learned minister of Christ provides them to unravel their confusion they have ten more misconceived proofs waiting. This slows the rate at which these confused ones are able to progress and provides them with many points in the road, any one of which to choose to stop at all together.



We need specific knowledge of each, both God and God’s Son:



2 Peter 1:2 “Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,”



The kingdom is a joint venture between God and his Son. The Son is given authority on that throne as is a prince, The Son of King of Eternity. Yet the Son is king of kings as pertains to kings of this earth for he was given the thrown of David with relation to this earth:



Ephesians 5:5 “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.”



Christ is our superlative example of this: James 4:7 “Submit your selves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”



You actually have a couple points correct there in your post #92 Ducky.

Way to go !!!

Keep working on it.

 

[Vengle53]

John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

 

[jacobtaylor]

We need specific knowledge of each, both God and God’s Son:


The kingdom is a joint venture between God and his Son. The Son is given authority on that throne as is a prince, The Son of King of Eternity. Yet the Son is king of kings as pertains to kings of this earth for he was given the thrown of David with relation to this earth:

Christ is our superlative example of this: James 4:7 “Submit your selves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

Your statements don't hold water when compared to this description of Jesus. Col 1:15-18
I'll ask you the same question I did to someone else that avoids answering direct questions. Who was it that appeared to Abraham in Gen 18?

[sup] [/sup]Col 1:15-18
[sup]15[/sup] He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [sup]16[/sup] For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. [sup]17[/sup] And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. [sup]18[/sup] And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[Vengle53]

Keeping this in the context it was being spoken Paul was not concerned with or commenting on heaven but earth and men (specifically Israelite men: Romans 9:5 "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all [those fathers of the flesh], God blessed for ever [in other words, 'Christ is blessed by his Father, God, over those fleshly fathers forever'] . Amen."

Your statements don't hold water when compared to this description of Jesus. Col 1:15-18
I'll ask you the same question I did to someone else that avoids answering direct questions. Who was it that appeared to Abraham in Gen 18?

[sup][/sup]Col 1:15-18
[sup]15[/sup] He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [sup]16[/sup] For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. [sup]17[/sup] And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. [sup]18[/sup] And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

That depends on how much you are willing to put into thinking about it.

Who do you think it was that appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18?

 

[jacobtaylor]

That depends on how much you are willing to put into thinking about it.

Who do you think it was that appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18?

It doesn't matter what I think what matters is comparing scripture with scripture.
I'll play your game by providing scripture that says no man has seen God. I'll also remind you that the word used in Gen 18 is "LORD" Jehovah.
John 1:18
1 Tim 6:16
John 4:12
Ex 33:20

Don't forget to answer Paul's description in Col

[sup]15[/sup] He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [sup]16[/sup] For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. [sup]17[/sup] And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. [sup]18[/sup] And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

My opinion, Jesus is and was the Image of God the Father, that the Father created all things threw. Notice Paul even includes principalities or powers, visible or invisible, nothing excised before Jesus, nor was He created. So who was it that Abraham and Sarah prepared a meal for?

 

[Duckybill]

James 1:1a “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ …”

Meaning they are both God.

These confused ones have built a volume of what they perceive as sound evidence to support their ideas, thus complicating the task of helping them see the reality. For every small piece I or another learned minister of Christ provides them to unravel their confusion they have ten more misconceived proofs waiting. This slows the rate at which these confused ones are able to progress and provides them with many points in the road, any one of which to choose to stop at all together.

John 1 The Word was God. The Word became flesh ...

We need specific knowledge of each, both God and God’s Son:

How about the Holy Spirit too?

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[sup]19 [/sup]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

2 Peter 1:2 “Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,”

The kingdom is a joint venture between God and his Son. The Son is given authority on that throne as is a prince, The Son of King of Eternity. Yet the Son is king of kings as pertains to kings of this earth for he was given the thrown of David with relation to this earth:

Well of course.

John 5:18 (NKJV)
[sup]18 [/sup]Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD.

Ephesians 5:5 “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.”

If you didn't have an agenda you would see that Jesus wasn't just a man from what you just quoted.

You actually have a couple points correct there in your post #92 Ducky.

Way to go !!!

Keep working on it.

You're making progress. Now start believing.

John 20:28-29 (NKJV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And Thomas answered and said to Him, "MY LORD AND MY GOD!" [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Again, comparing God with Jesus.

Philippians 2:6 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD,

Only God is "equal with God". Unless you believe Jesus was an idiot to think He was equal with God.

 

[aspen]

Walking in Grace,

I too sense that you are a sincere believer who is listening with an open mind. I like your ID - Walking in Grace

I understand where you are coming from. But I still feel that God would be more righteous if He took the punishment upon Himself rather than let anyone else who is not God take the rap.

Going back to the analogy I gave. If I am very rich and everything I did was for my only son and our relationship is exceptional. While my obedient son may pay that one million dollars into my bank account without batting an eyelid, would it not have been more righteous for me to take pain of the punishment myself of forgiving that one million dollars?

Theology is a very difficult subject to master. But I remember a good advice from my professor and that is to avoid missing the forest for the trees. Sometimes, we are drilling down so deep into the Word that we forget some of the more important framework such the character of God and the such...

Keep humble. Keep Studying

Blessings,
Keeping Alert

This is an excellent post!

In fact, it has been one of my main points in the majority of my posts.

 

[Vengle53]

It doesn't matter what I think what matters is comparing scripture with scripture.
I'll play your game by providing scripture that says no man has seen God. I'll also remind you that the word used in Gen 18 is "LORD" Jehovah.
John 1:18
1 Tim 6:16
John 4:12
Ex 33:20

Don't forget to answer Paul's description in Col

[sup]15[/sup] He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [sup]16[/sup] For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. [sup]17[/sup] And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. [sup]18[/sup] And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

My opinion, Jesus is and was the Image of God the Father, that the Father created all things threw. Notice Paul even includes principalities or powers, visible or invisible, nothing excised before Jesus, nor was He created. So who was it that Abraham and Sarah prepared a meal for?

I understand that passage of Genesis just fine. It was not a direct appearance of God else it would render more than the few verses you cited as wrong. It is a connected channel of communication with God. The angel was merely Abraham's Ma Bell. I mean do you think we can do things God can't? And when you speak on the telephone do you address the phone or the one at the end of the phone? I would rather consider this possibility than to ignore the rest of the scriptures as your idea requires. At least that way I am not adding to them. But merely considering possibilities.

It was three angels, only one of which stayed with Abraham to discuss the fate of Sodom. The other two had left by that time.

Where you error and what is going to ultimately render those who teach this to mean God is a Trinity is in that to do that you embelish the scriptures with too much that is not there. How God will judge for that is between you and he. It is not my concern. But I will not add to the word as you do.

I have found that it is best to resist adding one's own fanciful; embellishments to the word as those embelishments only complicate being able to finally understand.

And I know that you did not originate that error. You have merely picked it up for those before you and because you believed it you cannot see through it.

As far as Colossians 1:15-18 you evidently have not followed much of what I have posted.