Solving the mistery of the trinity.

[Vengle53]

Sorry, Walking in Grace, but that is not a very wise saying. Human wisdom is it? There is responsibility for a person to not deliberately try to offend others.

Are you spiritually mature enough to understand why others feel the offence they do?

It is easier to just shoot the messenger for most than to figure that out.

For all of their stanch claims of knowledge and faith, it is the lack of both that allows them to be easily offended.

You see, they are bound into what they believe through desperation to feel secure about their salvation. When anything threatens that security through beliefs, it fills them with fear. And from out of that comes the wicked weeping and gnashing of teeth which they first unleashed upon Christ Jesus himself, and then upon all of us who are Christ true ministers.

Their shepherds bear the greatest guilt for this. They have fed their flocks junk food and their flocks are sickly and weak.

What is coming is coming quickly.

 

[Duckybill]

What is coming is coming quickly.

And what would that be?

 

[Anastacia]

Are you spiritually mature enough to understand why others feel the offence they do?

It is easier to just shoot the messenger for most than to figure that out.

For all of their stanch claims of knowledge and faith, it is the lack of both that allows them to be easily offended.

You see, they are bound into what they believe through desperation to feel secure about their salvation. When anything threatens that security through beliefs, it fills them with fear. And from out of that comes the wicked weeping and gnashing of teeth which they first unleashed upon Christ Jesus himself, and then upon all of us who are Christ true ministers.

Their shepherds bear the greatest guilt for this. They have fed their flocks junk food and their flocks are sickly and weak.

What is coming is coming quickly.

It sounds like you are full of your own wisdom and assumptions. You are rude, yet you want to blame the eye of the beholder. You can't take away my salvation. I am saved by Jesus Christ himself. No one can snatch me out of God's hand, not even you with your offensive comments.
Now go back a few posts and answer my questions, won't you?

 

[Duckybill]

Now go back a few posts and answer my questions, won't you?

I don't think he answers many questions.

 

[Anastacia]

I don't think he answers many questions.

I think you're right. None of our questions.

 

[Vengle53]

And what would that be?

Jeremiah 25:34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.
37 And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.

 

[Duckybill]

Jeremiah 25:34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.
37 And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.

Care to translate?

 

[jacobtaylor]

Jeremiah 25:34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.
37 And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.

You are the one that seems to be a puffed up. I have not read a Prophet or Apostle that warned people of being out of Gods favor and failed to revel why. By definition thats not a false prophet its simply someone presuming to hold a Godly truth with an unwillingness to make it known. Thats completely contrary to Gods desire. Keep your secret Im certain its not of God, God does not inhibit knowledge of himself even to those that don't listen.

 

[Vengle53]

Care to translate?

I will tell you how it comes about.

Religion has created a legacy in the minds of many of oppression. The governments have for a long time now merely tolerated religion because they could use it as a political tool. As the spread of democracy liberates the hidden voices of Middle Eastern Nations it frees many religiously oppressed people to join the ranks of the Atheist movement. The religions water down what is coming by convincing themselves that they are still the majority and that is important in a democracy as the majority wins the vote. But the shepherds have been like the drunkards of Ephraim who do not see the disaster coming in their drunkenness. They do not realize that a large percentage of what appears to be their supporters are actually only supporting them for momentary reasons of expediency (like the politician capitalizing on religion as a political tool). And when the ranks of Atheists surges in number from out of democracy's spread freeing the voice of those formerly unheard, huge numbers of religion's supposed own will begin to abandon them.

At that point the governments will no longer need religion as a political tool. The voice of the people will cry out for justice against their one time perceived oppressors and the governments are going to comply with a vengeance. They do not realize that it is God maneuvering them to do this on his behalf. They do not realize that this is a major step as the nations themselves are shepherded to the wrath of God the Almighty at Armageddon.

This is about to begin taking place so quickly it will make men's heads swim.

 

[Duckybill]

I will tell you how it comes about.

Religion has created a legacy in the minds of many of oppression. The governments have for a long time now merely tolerated religion because they could use it as a political tool. As the spread of democracy liberates the hidden voices of Middle Eastern Nations it frees many religiously oppressed people to join the ranks of the Atheist movement. The religions water down what is coming by convincing themselves that they are still the majority and that is important in a democracy as the majority wins the vote. But the shepherds have been like the drunkards of Ephraim who do not see the disaster coming in their drunkenness. They do not realize that a large percentage of what appears to be their supporters are actually only supporting them for momentary reasons of expediency (like the politician capitalizing on religion as a political tool). And when the ranks of Atheists surges in number from out of democracy's spread freeing the voice of those formerly unheard, huge numbers of religion's supposed own will begin to abandon them.

At that point the governments will no longer need religion as a political tool. The voice of the people will cry out for justice against their one time perceived oppressors and the governments are going to comply with a vengeance. They do not realize that it is God maneuvering them to do this on his behalf. They do not realize that this is a major step as the nations themselves are shepherded to the wrath of God the Almighty at Armageddon.

This is about to begin taking place so quickly it will make men's heads swim.

You sound quite paranoid but you don't know why or what to do.

 

[Vengle53]

You sound quite paranoid but you don't know why or what to do.

Paranoid? Because I am not a sleeping shepherd drunkard of Ephraim? To the contrary, I rejoice over what is soon to be finished.

Isaiah 65:11 ¶But ye (these false shepherds) are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
17 ¶For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Do you know how many people will quit trying to worship God if they find themselves with no physical, visible, tangible church to go to fill their social needs?

My church cannot be taken from me by man. My love and worship of God has not at all been dependent on any visible church. And many have ridiculed me for that. My church has always been free:

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

 

[aspen]

Father, Son and Holy Ghost; Mind, Heart, and Soul

 

[Anastacia]

Father, Son and Holy Ghost; Mind, Heart, and Soul

Hi aspen. You got that from making the sign of the cross, didn't you? The sign of the cross isn't biblical. When I was a Catholic, I came up with the same idea.

 

[Vengle53]

You are the one that seems to be a puffed up. I have not read a Prophet or Apostle that warned people of being out of Gods favor and failed to revel why. By definition thats not a false prophet its simply someone presuming to hold a Godly truth with an unwillingness to make it known. Thats completely contrary to Gods desire. Keep your secret Im certain its not of God, God does not inhibit knowledge of himself even to those that don't listen.

Very well, Jacob T, I will tell you why.

For the same reason that God allowed the Assyrian forces to overthrow the Ten-tribe kingdom of Israel in Samaria. God allowed it because of their fornication with the kings of the earth. They had placed their trust in these kings of the earth, even rationalizing that God was supportive of their doing so.

Ephraim was the dominant tribe of that Ten-tribe kingdom. They had much influence over the whole of the Ten-tribes. They used that influence to shepherd the other tribes to join them in their spiritual fornication with the kings of the earth. They used that influence to popularize the false hopes that the kings of the earth spoke to them. These drunk shepherds led the entire Ten-tribe kingdom toward a false hope, a counterfeit concept of God's provisions to help them.

The modern day drunkards of Ephraim have long done the same. They have their hopes and encourage the hopes of their followers to be in the nations' push for democracy, rather than directing their flocks to understand and be faithful to the true kingdom by Christ Jesus. They also have their drunken blind ways to rationalize that this is what God wants them to do. And they convince their flocks that this is what God wants them to do, so that when sober ministers of Christ try to tell them what they are doing, they weep and gnash their teeth upon them and stone them.

Many will gasp when they finally figure out what all things have been a part of the great delusion 2 Thess chapter two speaks concerning.

Most of you won't listen to me. You will only hate me for trying to tell you. That is nothing new as to how the true ministers of Christ have always been treated, is it.

But I will tell you anyway.

I now offer you a key, but whether you will use it is up to you:

All flesh was condemned and confined (locked up together) under sin when the sentence of death was pronounced upon Adam.

All that arises from that flesh is dead and valueless as a hope.

But the spirit is life in Christ.

Use that key and free yourself from the illusions that hold you bound to placing your hopes in the fleshly nations.

The hand-writing is on the wall for the over-all flesh corrupted pseudo-church that in the flesh pretends to be the true church of Christ. That cannot now be altered.

But individually: Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

 

[Keeping Alert]

I sense that you are a very sincere and methodical thinker. Your approach and your points are very humble. That is beautiful to see and such love excels knowledge. That highlights the important thing God is looking to find in us.

Matthew 5 speaks of how we are to become bearers of the light. I believe that light shines more of love than of knowledge. For the humble I know in my heart God will not despise.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you in part. This is resolved around the fact that God sent us his Son who was, in the beginning of the creation of all the universe and of man, the one for whom all things were created. We are because of God's good pleasure in his Son. And because the Son was the one over all things by God's good pleasure his Son took responsibility for what was his:

Proverbs 8:30-31 "Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him, Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men."

Does that help any?

Walking in Grace,

I too sense that you are a sincere believer who is listening with an open mind. I like your ID - Walking in Grace

I understand where you are coming from. But I still feel that God would be more righteous if He took the punishment upon Himself rather than let anyone else who is not God take the rap.

Going back to the analogy I gave. If I am very rich and everything I did was for my only son and our relationship is exceptional. While my obedient son may pay that one million dollars into my bank account without batting an eyelid, would it not have been more righteous for me to take pain of the punishment myself of forgiving that one million dollars?

Theology is a very difficult subject to master. But I remember a good advice from my professor and that is to avoid missing the forest for the trees. Sometimes, we are drilling down so deep into the Word that we forget some of the more important framework such the character of God and the such...

Keep humble. Keep Studying

Blessings,
Keeping Alert

 

[Vengle53]

You asked "do you think the priests had no part in instructing the people?" Why are you asking me that? And, get to the point. Don't just provide me with enough information....again, get to the point, OK?

I am only saying that if you will open-mindedly take the point that Jesus came not only to fulfill that Law but just as importantly to show us how we too can fulfill that Law and bear that in mind as you re-read things you will see it.

[quote name=]
There is something else I wanted to say to you... Since you do not believe Jesus is God, and you say you don't know if Jesus was an angel or not...what could Jesus be to you then? Jesus CAME from Heaven.
[/quote]

Jesus is to me God's divine Son, the most royal prince of heaven.

Beyond that I do not care whether he was or wasn't an angel of sorts. I do not know only because I choose not to look deeper into something that is only good for producing arguments. I am saying that when the roles Jesus took on our behalf are correctly understood that becomes a totally irrelevant issue.

You had also said to me: "We cannot become Jesus no matter how much like him we try to be! You are wrong."​

How can you be Christ's body and not be as Christ? Would you insert yourself into him in such a way that you cause conflict in his body? Many have done that. Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."​

That is a verse where the plural "ye" and "you" is used. What the verse says when correctly understood is that​

for the spirit of God to dwell in the (plural) "you" (aka, the body of Christ) each individual man in the body of Christ must have the Spirit of Christ, else the body is rendered unholy and God's spirit will not inhabit that body.​

In one of my posts in this thread I spoke about the Bible's use of both plural and singular pronouns and encouraged all to read in the preface of the KJV about it.. Romans 8:9 is an excellent example of how failure to understand these pronouns easily affects one's correctness of understanding.​

 

[jacobtaylor]

Jesus is to me God's divine Son, the most royal prince of heaven.

Beyond that I do not care whether he was or wasn't an angel of sorts. I do not know only because I choose not to look deeper into something that is only good for producing arguments. I am saying that when the roles Jesus took on our behalf are correctly understood that becomes a totally irrelevant issue.

Beyond that I do not care whether he was or wasn't an angel of sorts.

So you could be just as comfortable in a Mormon or JW church. I hate to break the news to you. But where trouble or differences are found that's where you find the truth being hidden or distorted.

 

[Vengle53]

So you could be just as comfortable in a Mormon or JW church. I hate to break the news to you. But where trouble or differences are found that's where you find the truth being hidden or distorted.

I am not quite sure what you mean by "where trouble or differences are found" as it relates to Mormons or JWs.

I see all of the visible church groups as just men of flesh pushing their preferred interpretations of what the Bible teaches.

I do not allow any of them to lead me.

I have been blasted by JWs who say that I fail to respect that God is a God of order and does everything in an organized way. They cannot understand that I totally agree with that about God but I see that he is not dependent on the flesh to maintain that order. I see amazing order to the way his spirit accomplishes things despite men's interference with him.

And that is really all these fleshly groups end up doing, that is, interfering with his order. They cannot keep their flesh out of the mix.

They ultimately end up having taught dependence on their fleshly group more than teaching how to connect to and depend on God's Spirit.

 

[Anastacia]

My replies to Walking in Grace in blue.

I am only saying that if you will open-mindedly take the point that Jesus came not only to fulfill that Law but just as importantly to show us how we too can fulfill that Law and bear that in mind as you re-read things you will see it.

I am under the New Covenant. I work on obeying everything Jesus teaches. So your assumptions about me are wrong again.


Jesus is to me God's divine Son, the most royal prince of heaven.

Jesus created ALL THINGS. John 1:3; Colossians 1:16,17; Hebrews 1:2,10 Jesus says that he and God are One

Hebrews 1:8 Father addresses son as God; John 1:1 The word was God; Philippians 2:6-8 Jesus existed in the form of God; John 20:28 'My Lord and My God; Isaiah 7:14 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Emanuel: God with us"; Isaiah 9:6 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace"



Beyond that I do not care whether he was or wasn't an angel of sorts. I do not know only because I choose not to look deeper into something that is only good for producing arguments. I am saying that when the roles Jesus took on our behalf are correctly understood that becomes a totally irrelevant issue.

Maybe Jesus wants us to think about the question of who he is? Jesus did ask "What do you think of the Christ?" (Matthew 22:42)

You had also said to me: "We cannot become Jesus no matter how much like him we try to be! You are wrong."​

How can you be Christ's body and not be as Christ? Would you insert yourself into him in such a way that you cause conflict in his body? Many have done that. Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."​

We cannot become Christ. But we can be part of his body. Do you really think you are Jesus Himself?

That is a verse where the plural "ye" and "you" is used. What the verse says when correctly understood is that for the spirit of God to dwell in the (plural) "you" (aka, the body of Christ) each individual man in the body of Christ must have the Spirit of Christ, else the body is rendered unholy and God's spirit will not inhabit that body.
Of course believers receive the Spirit of God and Jesus. But that still does not make us God. And, that is something else you never commented on---If God and Jesus are not the same, then how can they have the same Spirit? Answer that, if you can.

​

In one of my posts in this thread I spoke about the Bible's use of both plural and singular pronouns and encouraged all to read in the preface of the KJV about it.. Romans 8:9 is an excellent example of how failure to understand these pronouns easily affects one's correctness of understanding.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.



​

 

[Anastacia]

Here is a link to a very good article with very good information that I think all should read. I did NOT do a study on who made this article, nor did I do a study on all their other beliefs. So, I cannot say I support all the beliefs of the people, or person who wrote this article (if any one ventures off on to the other articles on the site). But I do think it is an excellent article about Jesus being God in the flesh. Here is the link to the article:

http://www.jesus-is-...om/jesusgd2.htm