Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
As a person who has (previously) partaken in 'much wine' I would like to say just a few words of my own first and then share some of 'the word'.
I understand you are talking about "sometimes partake(ing), but not to a drunken state." and that there are several cultures where a little wine with dinner is perfectly normal even at a young age. Can I, (I will), draw from your statement here that you have no issue with the Bibles poor view of being in a "drunken state"? That being said I would also like to state that my current choice to, like the pastor, never (again) partake of even one alcoholic drink was made before I gave my life to Jesus. I found plenty of good reasons to give it up for good before then. As such, I would like to think that the biblical observations i am presenting will not be taken as being skewed, brainwashing, or anything of the sort. Rather, these simply are verses of inspiration that came to mind while reading your post (with a bit of study).
Gluttony (on a side note, yes you are right about gluttony). Gluttony & drunkards/winebibbers are put into the same category in no less than 5 verses.
Psalm 23:19 Hear, my son, and be wise; And guide your heart in the way. 20 Do not mix with winebibbers, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat; 21 For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, And drowsiness will clothe a man with rags.
Confusion!!!
1 corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. v.31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. v.29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Yes, these verses are about talking in other languages, but they highlight the issue. The purpose of 'speaking by divine inspiration' (prophesying) is that we may learn and be comforted, not confused. And yes, we ARE to judge (& test) those prophesying.
Psalm 71:1 In thee, O Lord, do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion. 2 Deliver me in thy righteousness, and cause me to escape: incline thine ear unto me, and save me. 3 Be thou my strong habitation, whereunto I may continually resort: thou hast given commandment to save me; for thou art my rock and my fortress.
Psalm 60:3 You have shown Your people hard things; You have made us drink the wine of confusion.
Ok, the bible does stop short of saying thou shalt not drink wine, but it does say "be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess" (more on this later).
Drink V Drunk
1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
From Thayer's Greek Lexicon 'given' (prosecho)= to devote thought and effort to [this verse quoted]; & 'much' (ploys)= many, much large.
These guidelines for the deacons of the churches indicate that even thinking about Beer O'clock is not a desirable characteristic for deacons as role models. This is what we should want to aim for.
Abusing God's grace = Hellfire?
Matthew 5 (The Beatitudes)
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Think about this in light of Matthew 23:1 (the first verse, up top). Are we calling people in our church (worse our leaders) fools?
Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!… 9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Now we get to the nitty gritty. Is what we are doing "offend(ing) one of these little ones which believes in Me"? If it is "Just Don't Do It".
Remember Galations 2:11-21 where Paul reproved Peter for double standards and hypocrisy?
My short rant. I may be able to control my own drinking but i can't control someone else's. If a new believer reads what the bible says about all the negative results of drunkenness and then see's his brothers in christ drinking this creates confusion! To you a wine with a meal may be normal, but to me it might lead to another then another etc… (anyway enough of that).
Is Drinking Abusing God's Grace?
Ephesians 5
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Honestly, how many of these things follow alcohol?
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess (From Thayer's Greek Lexicon 'excess' here is 'esotia' which is defined as referring to the character of an abandoned man, one that cannot be saved)!!!; but be filled with the Spirit 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
As much as we might not like to hear it, this verse makes it crystal clear. The old preacher may just be right after all!
