Son of God/Son of man

[marks]

James uses the same word yet he himself shows us of the two meanings . ONE is the temptations of the flesh
and the other is the trials by which we suffer for His name sake .
One is done by our own flesh and seduces us to entertain evil
the other is simply brought on to cause us to suffer in the flesh and draw us only closer to GOD .
ONE the flesh willing embraces and it actually causes , the other the flesh hates and would run from
Perhaps that crude way of how i explained it might help . BUT I DO notice the same word used yet it
means two different things . AN example is , REMEMBER that JAMES Wrote and said , WHEN We are tempted
IT IS NOT BY GOD BUT BY THE FLESH
YET in another place it says GOD TEMPTED abraham . YET Look at how abraham was tempted , IT WAS A TESTING OF THE FAITH
YET james uses it to show us the evils of the flesh . SO THERE IS TWO DIFFERENT meanings implied
WE JUST have to be able to discern the difference between the two . AND WE CAN if we read the WHOLE explanation .

God gives/allows us contrary circumstances, an illness, a rude person, an "unmet need", some imminent threat, some alluring thing. We are tested with these things. If we are enticed to do something apart from God, outside of our faith in Jesus, that is the temptation that leads to sin. We can still deny that, denying our flesh, and not sin. When we are not enticed, it shows the work God has done inside us, reforming us into the image of Christ.

The test shows us true. If we fail the test, it shows our need.

Much love!

Edit to add . . . I guess I said what I said before . . . not trying to be repetative, but you're words seem to always get my mind working!

<3

 

[Philip James]

YET MANY have . MANY . TRUTH is it would be easire to count the grains of sand than the men and women
satan has decieved throughout all ages , AND I MEAN IN THE CHURCH as well as the world . MANY are following
the wrong version of JESUS

Hello amigo,

Indeed that may be so.

But Jesus knows our hearts.
HE will judge justly and mercifully.

HE knows those who in their hearts and actions choose Life and those who do not.

Do not be too quick to write off your brethren 'for we have the mind of Christ'

Pax et Bonum

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

When we talk about tempted and tested we use two different words, but as these are translated from Greek in our Bibles, they both translate the same word, peirasmos. This is to test with a temptation. To put to the the test with enticements and contrary circumstances. If you fail, you sin, if you don't, you don't, and you've passed the test. Gone past it, you're through it.

Much love!

Yes I agree with you here about what you say about tested and temptation. God can't be tested like that. So since it's impossible for God to be tempted like that, and the scriptures tell us that Jesus was tested with temptation like that otherwise he wasn't thoroughly tested as we are, as Adam Eve were. So since the scriptures do tell us that Jesus was tested with temptation as we are, he wasn't God. He was the Only Begotten Son of God as the scriptures say he was. He was thoroughly tested with temptation as us but didn't sin. He didn't sin because of the love he had for his Father and God YHWH.

 

[marks]

Yes I agree with you here about what you say about tested and temptation. God can't be tested like that. So since it's impossible for God to be tempted like that, and the scriptures tell us that Jesus was tested with temptation like that otherwise he wasn't thoroughly tested as we are, as Adam Eve were. So since the scriptures do tell us that Jesus was tested with temptation as we are, he wasn't God. He was the Only Begotten Son of God as the scriptures say he was. He was thoroughly tested with temptation as us but didn't sin. He didn't sin because of the love he had for his Father and God YHWH.

No, not so. He was tested as we all are, only, He never sinned. You have to remember . . . temptation . . . testing . . . both are the exact same word. It's a single thing, peirasmos. Test/tempt.

We are tested, and either don't sin, or do sin. When we are enticed to sin, it's because we are already yielding to our flesh, already prepared to rebel against God.

Jesus was tested, but never yielded to flesh desires, never rebelled against His Father. Because that is Who He is. Holy. He was tested in all the ways we are, but never once sinned.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is quite confounding. It's as if Satan did not understand the full measure to whom he was speaking. Perhaps he did not?

Well…I think he DID know who he was speaking with and tried to manipulate His flesh, knowing He was in human form, but found he could not manipulate it as he does with us. Now, he WAS able to manipulate the flesh of other humans to bring about Jesus’ death. That’s how satan works, manipulation of our mind and flesh - emotions, etc. When our flesh is put under our feet, he has nothing by which to manipulate us.

 

[Nancy]

Well…I think he DID know who he was speaking with and tried to manipulate His flesh, knowing He was in human form, but found he could not manipulate it as he does with us. Now, he WAS able to manipulate the flesh of other humans to bring about Jesus’ death. That’s how satan works, manipulation of our mind and flesh - emotions, etc. When our flesh is put under our feet, he has nothing by which to manipulate us.

Tru dat. Kind of like if you don't leave garbage or food out and around, there will be no reason for mice roaches and what ever other filthy critter that might attract.

 

[MatthewG]

Though I do not believe that Satan and demons are still around today, due to faith in the victory of Christ Jesus, as merited by what the bible establishes. Our nature as human beings is naturally inclined to look out for itself, and from growing up we look out for family sometimes, or have fights and feuds with other people that come and go through life. To understand that we are influenced by what we do, what we watch, what we eat and it naturally indulges our flesh. That is along the lines of protecting itself, even if it is to lie to someone to keep from trouble or from finding out something that is kept hidden by the hider. Learning and looking and observing yourself for who you are helps in understanding your own unique *soul; whos purpose in life is to serve God (Yaweh and praise Him, and also praise the Lord Yeshua Christ). The only way the soul which is the (heart/mind/will/emotion), the world itself can influence your soul, but so can God who is able to renew our soul (heart/mind/will/emotion), which is by reading the Bible.

The greatest gift we are able to have in this life while living aside from being blessed by the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Christ that lives with-in a believer, is the total and whole ability to be completely honest and transparent to God (Yahweh - the I Am - the Self Existent One, the God of Israel, the only God above all other gods), about what is on your heart, and on your mind, and what is bothering you, your anxity, fears, (doings whatever you have done - bad or good), is that God is willing to listen, and is willingly to by your permission to help you by the holy spirit in which brings forth a different approach to life itself knowing who he is, and how honest and open we can be to Him, and God will help you. Just dont doubt.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Then you clearly fail to see the plan of GOD . IT WAS ALWAYS GOD HIMSELF that could only fullfill the righteousness of his own law .
THUS He , His word would have to become in the same likeness of flesh as man himself .
Even the very depths of the law itself POINTS TO JESUS .
Try and look at what GOD had told the jews in the law . IF any man has any kind of blemish , any levite
such a deformity , mole , etc HE CANNOT BE A PRIEST let alone the HIGH PRIEST .
AND YET HOW DOES GOD SEE MAN . GO to and behold what he tells samuel .
SAMEUL JUST KNEW FOR SURE and for certain that GOD had chosen the first born of JESSEE
HE looked upon his appearance on the outside . BUT GOD quickly said
I DO NOT SEE as does man , for GOD LOOKETH upon the inside .
SO for the deeper revelation know THIS . THE GREAT TRUE HIGH PRIEST would have to be without spot or blemish
ON THE INSIDE . AND I PERSONALLY ONLY KNOW OF ONE THAT IS LIKE THAT . GOD . GOD ALONE
is without spot on the inside . GOD ALONE . GOD was always gonna have to save man from what man himself could not save himself from .
NOW CEASE WITH THE LIES . Just cause you cant understand the diety of CHRIST , giveth ya not right to DENOUNCE IT .
TOO many folks follow jw or ellen white or who knows what . BUT THEY ARE DOING IT to their own destruction . PEROID . AND ITS HIGH
TIME IT STOPS NOW . just believe what is written , EVEN IF YA DONT UNDERSTAND IT .

I know that the scriptures say that Jesus who is the Only Begotten Son of God was thoroughly tested as humans are. I also know that the scriptures say that God can't be tested with temptation. I'm not going to ignore these scriptures. These scriptures are not lies. It's impossible for God to be tempted and it's impossible for God to sin. Jesus wasn't God he is as the scriptures say he is the Only Begotten Son of God. He simply chose not to sin because of his love he had for his Father and God YHWH.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

No, not so. He was tested as we all are, only, He never sinned. You have to remember . . . temptation . . . testing . . . both are the exact same word. It's a single thing, peirasmos. Test/tempt.

We are tested, and either don't sin, or do sin. When we are enticed to sin, it's because we are already yielding to our flesh, already prepared to rebel against God.

Jesus was tested, but never yielded to flesh desires, never rebelled against His Father. Because that is Who He is. Holy. He was tested in all the ways we are, but never once sinned.

Much love!

God didn't create Adam with a sinful nature, and the promise seed who was the Only Begotten Son of God had to come in Adams likeness, the ransom sacrifice had to a human actually capable of removing sins, so the promise seed must be perfect, without blemish like Adam was when God created him and willingly sacrifice that perfect human life. The promised seed would have to correspond to the first perfect human the first Adam who possessed human perfection when created but lost it when he disobeyed YHWH God in Eden. The promise seed would have to correspond to the first Adam if he were to pay the price of redemption that would release Adam’s offspring from the debt, which our first father Adam has sold us into.(Romans 7:14; Psalm 51:5.)

So just as the first man Adam didn't have a sinful nature when created Jesus when he came to mankind would also be without a sinful nature. The first Adam was capable of sinning if he focused on wrong thoughts. That was the error of the angel who became Satan the Devil, he focused on wrong thoughts and he sinned. He wanted to be worshipped. So if Adam and Eve focused on wrong thoughts which they did they would sin, but they were capable of being obedient. Just because they chose to be disobedient doesn't change the fact they could have been obedient. Jesus came in the likeness of the first man Adam and only in the likeness of the first man Adam. Jesus wasn't a God-Man because the first man Adam wasn't a God-Man.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

I find the following scripture illuminating as to the mind of Jesus.

Luke 22:39-46 ESV
Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives
39 And he came out and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives, and the disciples followed him. 40 And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41 And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.” 43 And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45 And when he rose from prayer, he came to the disciples and found them sleeping for sorrow, 46 and he said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Rise and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”​

I highlighted the portion I find especially significant. As you can see, Jesus asked God to "remove this cup." In other words, to remove the necessity of crucifixion. This tells me that Jesus was afraid, a truly human emotion. The fact that he was "in agony" reinforces that notion. However, being fullhy obedient to God in all ways, Jesus accepted God's desire for him without hesitation or complaint. Truly, he did not sin.

Now, with this in mind revisit Satan's temptation of Jesus.

Luke 4:1-13 ESV
The Temptation of Jesus
4 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. 3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” 4 And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’” 5 And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, 6 and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written,

“‘You shall worship the Lord your God,
and him only shall you serve.’”

9 And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written,

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
to guard you,’

11 and

“‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

12 And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him until an opportune time.​

Jesus fasted for forty days and "he was hungry." This shows another manner in which Jesus was fully human. He suffered physical hunger, same as any man would in his place. From this we can conclude that Jesus was fully human, same as the rest of us. He hungered. He felt fear. He felt pain. Yet he was also fully unified with and obedient to God. He did not sin, but the potential to sin was within him. It's for this reason he is the perfect man. If he lacked the potential to sin then he would not be fully human and thus could not be the perfect bridge between humanity and God.

 

[marks]

God didn't create Adam with a sinful nature, and the promise seed who was the Only Begotten Son of God came in Adams likeness. The ransom sacrifice, a human actually capable of removing sins, must be perfect, without blemish like Adam was when God created him and willingly sacrifice that perfect human life. The promised seed would have to correspond to the first perfect human the first Adam who possessed human perfection when created but lost it when he disobeyed YHWH God in Eden. The promise seed would have to correspond to the first Adam if he were to pay the price of redemption that would release Adam’s offspring from the debt, which our first father Adam has sold us into.(Romans 7:14; Psalm 51:5.)

Only God is good. Only God has intrinsic goodness.

And only someone who isn't drowning can rescue the drowning man.

Adam was not stable, and therefore fell, not being intrinsically good. Only God is good.

We are made stable by the indwelling Spirit, the new source of our life. Not another Adamic live, something completely outside.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

I find the following scripture illuminating as to the mind of Jesus.

Luke 22:39-46 ESV
Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives
39 And he came out and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives, and the disciples followed him. 40 And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41 And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.” 43 And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45 And when he rose from prayer, he came to the disciples and found them sleeping for sorrow, 46 and he said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Rise and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”​

I highlighted the portion I find especially significant. As you can see, Jesus asked God to "remove this cup." In other words, to remove the necessity of crucifixion. This tells me that Jesus was afraid, a truly human emotion. The fact that he was "in agony" reinforces that notion. However, being fullhy obedient to God in all ways, Jesus accepted God's desire for him without hesitation or complaint. Truly, he did not sin.

Now, with this in mind revisit Satan's temptation of Jesus.

Luke 4:1-13 ESV
The Temptation of Jesus
4 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. 3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” 4 And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’” 5 And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, 6 and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written,

“‘You shall worship the Lord your God,
and him only shall you serve.’”

9 And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written,

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
to guard you,’

11 and

“‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

12 And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him until an opportune time.​

Jesus fasted for forty days and "he was hungry." This shows another manner in which Jesus was fully human. He suffered physical hunger, same as any man would in his place. From this we can conclude that Jesus was fully human, same as the rest of us. He hungered. He felt fear. He felt pain. Yet he was also fully unified with and obedient to God. He did not sin, but the potential to sin was within him. It's for this reason he is the perfect man. If he lacked the potential to sin then he would not be fully human and thus could not be the perfect bridge between humanity and God.

Very good, this is insightful use of scripture them selves.

The way I see it, Jesus could have rejected the Father at any time because he had his own will, however being the Word of God that came down from heaven living inside of the flesh body of the Messiah named Jesus, always focused on what the Fathers Will was, as the scripture claims Jesus name was Immanuel “God with us”.

The Holy Spirit of God was what helped him overcome the need to even sin, and thus he never did sin. We were never born like the Word of God was born, coming down from the heavenly, so Yeshua had a slight advantage compared to the first Adam, having been in the beginning with God as Gods very own Word.

What does that mean for us today?

Your flesh likes and craves things, if you want it to be submissive to you, you will have to give yourself over to God and allow the Holy Spirit to move you inside. (Willing participation it’s not just one sided you must make your own effort).

Matthew 26
40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with mefor one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.

Romans 8
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Above is a willingly participation.

Even with this your going to still struggle with sin until you die but you will be free from the power of Sin while he are constantly feeding your spirit and if desire to have spiritual life, you will put more focus there than what the world itself can give you.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Only God is good. Only God has intrinsic goodness.

And only someone who isn't drowning can rescue the drowning man.

Adam was not stable, and therefore fell, not being intrinsically good. Only God is good.

We are made stable by the indwelling Spirit, the new source of our life. Not another Adamic live, something completely outside.

Much love!

Adam was created without the sinful nature he was a perfect human. He had a perfect human life with a perfect mind and a perfect body. After God had created everything which would include Adam, God said everything was very good. So it met God approval of what he considered good concerning his creation. This means that when God told Adam to not eat from the forbidden tree God knew that Adam was capable of obeying him. God didn't tell Adam or Eve to do or not do something that was impossible for them to obey. So the first man Adam God created a perfect human without a sinful nature. He had a perfect human mind and body. So the promised seed who is Jesus came in the likeness of the first man Adam. Jesus was a perfect human with a perfect human mind and body who didn't have a sinful nature just as the first Adam. Jesus proved without any doubt that a perfect human having a perfect mind and body and not having a sinful nature can love YHWH God so much that he will have faith in the True God YHWH and be obedient because of that love he/she has for the True God YHWH.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hello amigo,

Indeed that may be so.

But Jesus knows our hearts.
HE will judge justly and mercifully.

HE knows those who in their hearts and actions choose Life and those who do not.

Do not be too quick to write off your brethren 'for we have the mind of Christ'

Pax et Bonum

false prophets and teachers who continuously follow what is false and teach others to do the same , AINT brethren .
cause where is the HOLY GHOST . I mean when a lamb errs it actually gets convicted .
Yet many can hear the correction of others yet flat out refuse to repent . Where is the proof of the SPIRIT in those .
Those must be warned against till they repent cause they are a grave and deadly danger not only to themselves
but to all who would hear and follow them . Let us remember THAT well .

 

[amigo de christo]

Only God is good. Only God has intrinsic goodness.

And only someone who isn't drowning can rescue the drowning man.

Adam was not stable, and therefore fell, not being intrinsically good. Only God is good.

We are made stable by the indwelling Spirit, the new source of our life. Not another Adamic live, something completely outside.

Much love!

The first adam failed as has all of mankind , but the second adam prevailed . THANK GOD FOR THE SON CHRIST JESUS is all i can say .
Now lift those hands and praise the LORD .

 

[Philip James]

false prophets and teachers who continuously follow what is false and teach others to do the same , AINT brethren .

Hey amigo,

Perhaps, but many who unknowingly follow such but trust in Jesus ,probably are..

Funny how the enemy, in trying to divide the Church, has mostly just made sure Jesus' name is known everywhere..
If that can be acconplished despite our hard hearts and proud pronouncements, how much more when we stop clawing and biting at one another.

Pax et Bonum

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well, I’m one of them who do.

Yep, a staggering number. I on the other hand believe that Jesus is actually who he says he is maam, while not as great in number, there are quite a few of us.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hey amigo,

Perhaps, but many who unknowingly follow such but trust in Jesus ,probably are..

Funny how the enemy, in trying to divide the Church, has mostly just made sure Jesus' name is known everywhere..
If that can be acconplished despite our hard hearts and proud pronouncements, how much more when we stop clawing and biting at one another.

Pax et Bonum

And that is why i continously warn anyone that does follow someone or something false to cease .

 

[Philip James]

And that is why i continously warn anyone that does follow someone or something false to cease .

And you are the arbiter of Truth? Does the Truth change?

If we disagree, who adjudicates?

Pax et Bonum

 

[amigo de christo]

And you are the arbiter of Truth? Does the Truth change?

If we disagree, who adjudicates?

Pax et Bonum

Anyone who truly knows and follows Christ shall stand for the truth and correct .