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Soul Sleep yes or no?

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by friend of, Nov 18, 2021.

Is there such a thing as "soul sleep"?

This poll will close on Nov 18, 2022 at 9:51 PM.
  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    44.4%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. Other

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  1. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    Scripture is very clear on conscious eternal torment, its the false doctrine in Annihilation that's a misrepresentation

    There's a reason (Aunty Jane) is in agreement with you, it's Jehovah's Witness false doctrine, and they had it long before you were born


    The Soul Of Man Is Immortal As Gods Words Teach Below, The Wicked Will Be Judged To (Conscious Eternal Torment)

    Wikipedia: Annihilationism
    is directly related to the doctrine of Christian conditionalism, the idea that a human soul is not immortal unless it is given eternal life. Annihilationism asserts that God will eventually destroy the wicked, leaving only the righteous to live on in immortality. Thus those who do not repent of their sins are eternally destroyed because of the inherent incompatibility of sin with God's holy character. Seventh-day Adventists posit that living in eternal hell is a false doctrine of pagan origin, as the wicked will perish in the lake of fire. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that there can be no punishment after death because the dead cease to exist

    Annihilationism is a false doctrine as scripture clearly teaches below, the soul of the wicked will experience (Conscious Eternal Torment)

    Revelation 14:9-11KJV
    9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
  2. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a fact of wishful thinking!

    Here’s a fact of DOCTRINE:

    “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
     
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  3. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, the Bible disagrees with you. God is nowhere spoken of as omnipresent.
    He is Omnipotent (Almighty) and he is Omniscient (all knowing) but he is given a location by Jesus himself in the most recited prayer in Christendom.....
    Our Father who art in heaven”.....God does not need to be omnipresent if he is Omniscient.
     
  4. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    Birds of a feather flock together, Aunty Jane is a Jehovah's Witness, what denomination or group do you identify with?

    I'm non-denominational
     
  5. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Let me qualify this a bit more. Regarding the second advent of Jesus, yes I believe in it...and not just on the 7th day....and re being a witness for Jehovah, I would concur with that as well.

    On the other hand, if you are asking for the purpose of slotting me into some sort of box where no further questions need to be asked; where foregone conclusions (when it comes to categories) definitively determine one's understanding....I will have to disappoint you.
     
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This passage actually refutes the foolish notion of Soul Sleep. So let's take it a step at a time.

    1. Do you know that this passage is about the rapture?

    2. Do you also know that the metaphor of "sleep" is used for death when applied to Christians? It is applied to Stephen even though his soul and spirit went to Heaven immediately: And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep [died].

    3. Do you know that if Christ brings with Him -- FROM HEAVEN -- those who are asleep it is a reference to the souls and spirits of those who died in Christ and are now in Heaven?

    4. Do you know why these saints come from Heaven at the Rapture? So that they may received glorified bodies and return to Heaven as bodies, souls, and spirits -- as complete persons.

    So Soul Sleep is UTTERLY DEMOLISHED in this passage which you thought supported your fantasy.
     
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  7. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    The nature of delusion is that it's adherent sincerely believes it to be true. So what can I say?....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling......just don't spill the coffee!
     
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  8. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    God is Omnipresent, he made "All", he has no resting place!

    Acts 7:49-50KJV
    49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
    50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

    God is Omnipresent

    Psalm 139:7-10KJV
    7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
    8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
    9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
    10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
     
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  9. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    It isn't sound doctrine to teach that spirits continue to inhabit dead flesh....
     
  10. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    I said no such thing.

    We aren’t all knowing.

    Some things are a mystery.

    To claim to know that departed people go to be immediately with the Lord is a proud assumption based on scriptures that say no such thing. It’s extra biblical.

    This is why the faith is in such ruins these days… bickering over nonsense like this with no Bible support instead of preaching the plain unadulterated word which promotes holiness and the fear of God.
     
  11. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    You’re so leavened that you cannot see past your own high mindedness.

    I like your political stuff, but you’re way off on things like this man.
     
  12. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    No demolition at all if you understand exactly what that scripture is saying....
    1 Thessalonians 4:13-18....
    “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (ESV)
    You left out the inconvenient part....all sleep in death “until the coming of the Lord”. Those who are alive when Christ returned would “not precede those who have fallen asleep” which means that the “saints” did NOT go straight to heaven when they died, but would “sleep” until Christ returned to resurrect them.....so when was that to happen?

    Interestingly, Christ’s return was not going to be obvious to many.

    There is a word used by Jesus' apostles and his instructions to them concerning the time of his return.....
    Matthew 24:3-6....
    “As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.” (ESV) Then he went on to relate the features of the sign, all in evidence since the Great War of 1914. (Matthew 24:3-14)

    In verse 3, Jesus' disciples were not actually asking about his "coming", but about his "presence", which is what the word "pa·rou·siʹa" means. Someone who is present is not coming but is already here. So in asking for a "sign of his presence", they were not asking about his "coming (erchomai) on the clouds with power and great glory" because that is totally separate event...visible to all. But his "presence" which required a "sign" was not a visible event. All the features of the sign had to be fulfilled before his "coming" to judge mankind. Unless you do word studies and you keep relying on unreliable translations, you will never get the truth.

    It is the same word used there in 1 Thess 4:15.
    In 2 Corinthians 10:10-11 it contrasts "presence" (pa·rou·siʹa) with "absence" (a·ponʹtes). So it does not mean "coming" as in "not yet present". Someone's presence follows their arrival, which may not be observed. This I believe is the case with Jesus.

    So, I'm sorry but your interpretation of that scripture is way off.

    OK....What is the setting here...? And is this an accurate translation of the verse....?
    Stephen is about to be martyred and he is given a heavenly vision.....but is the word "God" in the original manuscripts? NO! Stephen is appealing to his "Lord" Jesus.
    The word "God" is not in the original, and should not have been in the translation. It is in none of the ancient [manuscripts] or versions. So how did the word “God” come to be inserted into that verse? Scholar Abiel Abbot Livermore called this “an instance of the sectarian biases of the translators.” Most modern translations, therefore, eliminate this spurious reference to God.

    But did Stephen pray to Jesus? Or was he seeing his Lord in heaven with his God and Father (the holy spirit was not seen at God's left hand) and imploring him, appealing to him as the one he knew who would resurrect him? He "fell asleep" because that's what death is. No one goes anywhere. Their "sleep" is peaceful because they are unaware of anything that is happening here. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

    Did you know that Christ has already returned to direct his disciples through all the troubling features of the sign he gave them to indicate that he was now ruling as King.....his coronation in heaven, was seen only in a vision by the prophet Daniel 2,500 years before Jesus took up his Kingship. (Daniel 7:13-14)

    So from the time of his return, his elect have been raised to heaven....those who died before his coronation slept, and those who were alive at his return, did not need to sleep in death, but upon their death, were resurrected immediately to take up their positions in heaven, ready for the "marriage of the Lamb" when his complete "bride" is gathered to him. So those who died after Jesus' death, "slept" until his return, then all of the deceased elect were raised together. (Revelation 20:6)

    I'm sorry Enoch, but I cannot find mention of that anywhere.....can you give me the biblical reference please....
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  13. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments… And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.” ~ Luke 16:23a-24

    Send Lazarus? Father Abraham? I am in torment from the flame?

    Matthew 17 (KJV)
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
    ¹ And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
    ² And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
    ³ And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

    Moses? Elias?

    “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
    Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)

    Spirit is not flesh and does not continue to dwell inside a rotting corpse...spirit realm and physical realm are two separate worlds ..the physical body cannot dwell in the spirit realm and the spiritual body cannot dwell in the physical realm without a physical body.
    So as a body decays til nothing is left but bone maybe...where is their spirit then? Just hanging around?
    The carnal mind cannot understand the spiritual truths of God but for those who seek their eyes are opened to see.
     
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  14. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    This will take place after the soul is awakened. It will seem instantaneous to those who sleep. We who are alive are aware of time, not those who sleep:

    This scripture says nothing about when the spirit will return.

    Moses and Elijah are exceptions in your argument, not the rule.
     
  15. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    I am just going to humbly agree to disagree with you.
    Have a blessed evening
     
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  16. Pythagorean12

    Pythagorean12 Active Member

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    Soul Sleep is in the Bible, so it has to be, yes.
    Daniel 12:22 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
     
  17. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to be with us and comfort us, which is something only God can do. Jesus is the Good Shepherd who looks after his own here on earth, he even counts the hairs on our head, and the Lord's Prayer is for US to say.
    Those people who do not have Jesus in their heart and life, are lost eternally. You need to look at your own situation.
    .
     
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  18. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Heart2Soul 2 Corinthians 5.8 says: "...absent from the body..." right?
     
  19. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    What gives man life?
    Genesis 2:7 tells us that man became a living soul (KJV). The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh, meaning “an animated, breathing, conscious, and living being.” Man did not become a living soul until God breathed life into him. As a physical, animate, rational, and spiritual being, man is unique among all living things upon the earth.

    So, what is the breath of God? It is the life and power of God, given to man to animate him. The Hebrew word for spirit is ruach, which means “wind, breath, air, spirit.” The life of God lives on and on; the immaterial part of man was designed to live eternally.

    When a person dies his "breath" leaves, ceases, departs...the breath of life returns to God who gave it
     
  20. Pythagorean12

    Pythagorean12 Active Member

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    Oh yes, I'm aware of Ecclesiastes 12:7.
    How does that comport though with Daniel 12:2? Particularly this description: ... who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake...

    Why would a soul returned to God be awakened in the body sleeping in the dust from whence they sprang?

     
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