The point is that making Scripture the yardstick from a well founded knowledge of God's Word is far sounder than mere registering that someone has religious traditions and therefore regarding them as supposedly Biblical
Sound Doctrine
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Marymog
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Hmmmm......I think you and I have a different idea of the word "tradition" OR you are using it in a broad term.
Also, he was talking about that one book (Revelation) not all of Scripture....but I digress.
Can you give me one specific tradition of man that was an addition to Gods word?
Mary
The Epistle to the Hebrews shows how those who claimed to adhere to the Old Testament in so many ways had far diverged from where - and to Whom - the Word points to. So many of those divergences are with us today among those who profess to be religious.
Great verse there; and yes this is a great dispensational reminder that all Scripture is indeed for us, but all Scripture is not about us... Good point!
Some traditions are not biblical, but they don't affect your relationship with Christ. The kind of tradition that Mary is talking about is the kind that nullifies God's commandments (such as Sunday sacredness) or such as the above whereby clear teaching of scripture,
KJV 1 Peter 1
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Is at best confused by the false premise that mortal sinful man can act as redeemers. The notion that a priest can take the place of Christ's sacrifice by saying "I absolve thee" is blatant blasphemy and insults the Son of God who have his life for man's redemption.
Nancy
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"Nowhere in scripture does it say that water baptism is a "public confession of your newfound faith in Jesus". If I have overlooked it please quote it for me. "Thank you Nancy.
Your "guess" is partially true. God HAS promised forgiveness wherever there is repentance. He also promised forgiveness in Matthew 6:14 further saying if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. BOTH can be true. To pretend that only one can be true means that you (any Christian) are only accepting the part of scripture that you like and tossing the part out you don't like out.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that water baptism is a "public confession of your newfound faith in Jesus". If I have overlooked it please quote it for me.
According to scripture and historical writings (The Didache) from the time of the Apostles the act of baptism consist of one person baptizing (pouring water over/immersing) the other. There is no need for anymore than two people to be present (the baptizer and the baptize) and there is NO/NONE/ZILCH/NOTTA instruction in scripture that it has to be done in public view. The "public confession" belief began AFTER the reformation. It is a recent teaching of men.
Nowhere does scripture say that water baptism is a symbol. The FACT is that scripture says that baptism DOES something to you: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Since you want to throw out the part of scripture that says that getting baptized is a remission of you sins does that mean you are also throwing out that you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost???
If you are, as scripture says, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost when you get baptized is that not doing something TO you?? Seems to be more than a "public confession" if I am getting a gift
Mary
What I actually said was "And as for water baptism, I liken that to a public confession of your newfound faith in Jesus Christ and the water is symbolic of washing away the "old man" of sin, and rising from the water a "new man". So, in other words "IMO".
"The "public confession" belief began AFTER the reformation. It is a recent teaching of men."
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
Doesn't seem too recent to me. And gee, what happens if someone dies within 20 minutes after accepting Jesus and repenting of their sins, and they never made it to water baptism? What about the thief on the cross? My belief is that baptism is not prerequisite to being saved or forgiven of one’s sins, and it is possible for persons who have not been baptized to be saved.
"Since you want to throw out the part of scripture that says that getting baptized is a remission of you sins does that mean you are also throwing out that you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost???"
I have not "thrown out" any scripture. We receive the Holy Spirit through Jesus, period. And, if you are looking for a nasty back and forth here, you got the wrong gal. I will not stoop to that. I am just as entitled as you to believe how I believe. When and if God teaches me differently, my heart wide open to HIS teaching, not mans.
Good day.
Re: Sabbath keeping.
'Let no man therefore judge you
in meat, or in drink,
or in respect of an holy day,
or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days:
which are a shadow of things to come;
but the body is of Christ.'
(Col 2:16-17)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hi. I am a Bible believing Christian. I believe in the scripture you quoted. We should not judge others over their observance or non-observance of new moon, food, feast days etc which are shadows. But what of the weekly Sabbath which isn't a shadow, but a memorial? And of course you may well ask, why is the weekly Sabbath not a shadow? Allow me to explain. The shadows, or types, were established by God in the OT for one purpose...to point to the Saviour, Jesus. Every feast day had its NT counterpart...Passover...cross. Feast of firstfruits...resurrection. etc. Lamb...Jesus. Bread of life...Jesus. In fact, the entire sanctuary service, the priesthood, the vestments, the feat days, the individual sacrifices and offerings, even the furniture and the tabernacle itself, was established because of sin. These things were given to Israel as a portrayal of the gospel. To Israel, it was the way of life and salvation...all pointing to the coming Redeemer. Going back even to the garden of Eden when God slew an animal to clothe Adam and Eve...again, a type of Christ established, and an example for the patriarchs from then onward, because of sin.
The weekly Sabbath however was different. No remedy for sin is to be found in the 4th commandment. No type of a coming Saviour, no hint that there was in that day a shadow of a coming redeemer. Why not? Because the weekly Sabbath was established at creation, by Jesus Himself (being the Lord of the Sabbath thus the Lord's Day) and established, sanctified, set apart as a holy sacred day before sin entered the world, and therefore before there was any need of a redeemer.
Therefore the scripture you quoted, while applicable in certain senses to various church practices, doess not, cannot, be applied to the weekly Sabbath, because it is not a shadow.
But it is a shadow...just as all the other sabbaths. Let's not split hairs here.
The real sabbath is entered into by entering into Christ. To understand the nature of the sabbath one has to understand the nature of holiness. We are to keep the sabbath HOLY.
In the NT, holiness is to put on Christ. There is NO OTHER holiness in the NT.
i disagree...the weekly rest did point to an eternal rest. (In my opinion).
Col. 2:16 Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.
A festival is a special sabbath...but a sabbath is the sabbath day...
A festival is a special sabbath...but a sabbath is the sabbath day...
Helen
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And REST too.
He is our rest...
4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as He said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. "
The true sabbath...no more works righteousness....
bbyrd009
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...and the Lord Jesus is the perfect fulfilment of the feast of firstfruits - Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us and is become the firstfruits of them that slept - and so the risen Christ into whose rest we enter has wonderfully superseded the law- and sabbath-keeping under the Old Covenant!
And so how could people want to strive to go back to the types and shadows when the glorious fulness of revelation is already gloriously with us?
...and the Lord Jesus is the perfect fulfilment of the feast of firstfruits - Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us and is become the firstfruits of them that slept - and so the risen Christ into whose rest we enter has wonderfully superseded the law- and sabbath-keeping under the Old Covenant!
And so how could people want to strive to go back to the types and shadows when the glorious fulness of revelation is already gloriously with us?
Exactly!
@Episkopos @farouk @"ByGrace" @stunnedbygrace
That we are to rest in Christ from all our works is a given. We are to live our lives in trust and hope in his power and righteousness to do for us what we are incapable of doing for ourselves. Like justification. Like sanctification. Like living the life of the Lifegiver. His Spirit working in and through us for the good of others. Doing the Father's will. All these things, and more, We can only accomplish in his strength. Jesus said, Christianity 101, "without me ye can do nothing". We grow only as we are firmly attached to the Vine.
But that is not what we are discussing here. We are not talking about resting in Christ, something all Christians have the privilege and blessing to enter into. We are not talking about salvation, which comes by faith in the blood of Christ, not by our obedience. We are not talking about the OT sanctuary services and sacrificial system whereby Israel was to learn righteousness and the way to the Father.
We are talking about a day. A day created by God and made holy. Now all those things you guys talk about may be well and good, but they are just your opinion. None of it is explicitly taught in scripture. There is not one word, and you may search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, that remotely suggests that the holiness and sanctification of the day, has been removed, transferred to another day, abrogated altogether, or adjusted to mean some spiritual rest. That being the case, the commandment to keep the day holy becomes our duty. That is something we can do. Just like sharing the gospel. Just like avoiding situations whereby temptation may overcome us such as spending too much time with the neighbours wife or husband. Just like deliberately choosing clothing that is modest and appropriate for all occasions. These things, and many more men can and ought to do. And choosing to give up secular labour for one day in seven, the very day God himself had set aside for that purpose, is something we can do. For him. Accepting his authority in the matter. Not trusting in our own judgement, but believing the word of God when he says, remember the Sabbath day.
Upon whose authority do you take the stand that claims otherwise? Upon whose authority comes Sunday? Upon whose authority comes the decision that resting in Christ nullifies the Sabbath day itself?
Now don't think I am judging you in this. We are simply discussing what the Bible teaches. If you feel convicted or judged, that comes from the word itself... Not me. This thread is about the ten commandments. We don't argue that the other nine have been done away with... We don't advocate 9 commandments to be displayed in our schools and courthouses.... ripping out the only one that actually identifies the God we worship, and the only one that gives us reason to worship, makes no sense whatsoever. Unless of course you are the devil. Then you would have every reason to rip it out. In fact, it has been suggested that if the celebration of creation, and true honour given the Creator, as per the fourth commandment had been faithfully kept throughout the centuries, there would be no such thing as an atheist or a theory of evolution. Just sayin.
That we are to rest in Christ from all our works is a given. We are to live our lives in trust and hope in his power and righteousness to do for us what we are incapable of doing for ourselves. Like justification. Like sanctification. Like living the life of the Lifegiver. His Spirit working in and through us for the good of others. Doing the Father's will. All these things, and more, We can only accomplish in his strength. Jesus said, Christianity 101, "without me ye can do nothing". We grow only as we are firmly attached to the Vine.
But that is not what we are discussing here. We are not talking about resting in Christ, something all Christians have the privilege and blessing to enter into. We are not talking about salvation, which comes by faith in the blood of Christ, not by our obedience. We are not talking about the OT sanctuary services and sacrificial system whereby Israel was to learn righteousness and the way to the Father.
We are talking about a day. A day created by God and made holy. Now all those things you guys talk about may be well and good, but they are just your opinion. None of it is explicitly taught in scripture. There is not one word, and you may search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, that remotely suggests that the holiness and sanctification of the day, has been removed, transferred to another day, abrogated altogether, or adjusted to mean some spiritual rest. That being the case, the commandment to keep the day holy becomes our duty. That is something we can do. Just like sharing the gospel. Just like avoiding situations whereby temptation may overcome us such as spending too much time with the neighbours wife or husband. Just like deliberately choosing clothing that is modest and appropriate for all occasions. These things, and many more men can and ought to do. And choosing to give up secular labour for one day in seven, the very day God himself had set aside for that purpose, is something we can do. For him. Accepting his authority in the matter. Not trusting in our own judgement, but believing the word of God when he says, remember the Sabbath day.
Upon whose authority do you take the stand that claims otherwise? Upon whose authority comes Sunday? Upon whose authority comes the decision that resting in Christ nullifies the Sabbath day itself?
Now don't think I am judging you in this. We are simply discussing what the Bible teaches. If you feel convicted or judged, that comes from the word itself... Not me. This thread is about the ten commandments. We don't argue that the other nine have been done away with... We don't advocate 9 commandments to be displayed in our schools and courthouses.... ripping out the only one that actually identifies the God we worship, and the only one that gives us reason to worship, makes no sense whatsoever. Unless of course you are the devil. Then you would have every reason to rip it out. In fact, it has been suggested that if the celebration of creation, and true honour given the Creator, as per the fourth commandment had been faithfully kept throughout the centuries, there would be no such thing as an atheist or a theory of evolution. Just sayin.
'Thus the heavens and the earth were finished,
and all the host of them.
And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made;
and He rested on the seventh day
from all His work which He had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:
because that in it He had rested from all His work'
which God created and made.'
(Gen.2:!-3)
Hello @brakelite,
Thank you for responding to my post.
Your argument takes us back beyond the giving of the law to Genesis 2:1-3, and the fact that 'God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it'. By this you seek to show that the words of Colossians 2:16-17 that I quoted, - 'Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Chris', - did not refer to the sabbath of the seventh day of the week.
This is a subject in itself, and needs it's own thread, to follow it up here would simply derail the subject of this one, which is 'Sound Doctrine'. However, I believe that the words of Colossians 2:16-17 does refer to all sabbaths. These words are being spoken to the church which is the Body of Christ, who were, and are, 'complete' in Christ. Praise God!
The seventh day sabbath, in biblical terms, was that held and observed by the nation of Israel under the terms of the covenant of Sinai, made with them alone. It took place on their seventh day, which fell on our Saturday: Sunday being the first day of their week; so the day that we observe is not the sabbath day at all, therefore has no validity in respect to this discussion concerning the Sabbath.
The keeping of one day out of the seven as a day of rest is advisable on health grounds, and gives opportunity to spend time around God's Word, and opportunity to meet with believing friends to encourage and edify one another, and to preach the gospel: but it is not a Sabbath day.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Well...yes, we ARE talking about rest in Him, which IS the true Sabbath rest in spirit and truth.
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