Sound Doctrine

[Episkopos]

Your answer makes no sense and it is not based on scripture

Heb. 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[amadeus]

"God loves for people to fear Him." If that is true, I cannot see myself ever approaching His throne boldly as we are instructed. When Jesus prayed, He always looked up and it seems, when we pray, we bow our heads as if we need to always be ashamed of ourselves. I can see the "shame" posture possibly applying to a prayer of repentance, if there is sin, there should be shame until you repent.
The thought of a Father who always want's me to be afraid kind of sucks the joy out of The Father I have come to know and love.

Perhaps with men the problem is that they have moved so far away from God that at times [prior to what we have now] we could not hope to look on His face. Consider Moses when he asked to see God:


"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20


"(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)" Numb 12:3

Who was so meek as Moses and yet Moses was not allowed to see more than the hind parts of God?

But Jesus accomplished something that gave us a possibility that even that meekest men, Moses, did not have. We see now that the Apostle Paul wrote that there is to be a "then":

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12


As for approaching that throne, how about sitting with him in his throne? Is that a close approach?

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." Rev 3:21-22

 

[amadeus]

work while it is day; the night is coming, when no man can work. So i agree, that place is the world, and you can go into the wilderness or cross the Sea of Reeds right from your chair imo. Christ has no place to lay His head, right, but we want that place He has prepared to have manicured lawns, trophy wives, and i guess preferably servants too lol
Search the scriptures to see if it is true that remaining and dying in the world is because of God's displeasure at a lack of trust and complaining imo, and lose this definition of wilderness as something to be avoided at all costs

The Head has completed its work and is ready to rest in its place over the Body of Christ. Our work is to become a place for Jesus to rest, to lay his Head, which is that place of rest and/or habitation which David also sought for his Lord...


"Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed;
I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Psalm 132:3-5

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14

So what and where is this Zion, this habitation of our Lord? As to the what:

6723 to parch; aridity, a desert: barren, drought, dry (land, place), solitary place, wilderness

6724 a desert, dry place

6725 from in 6723 in the sense of conspicuousness; a monumental or guiding pillar; sign, title, waymark.

As to the where:


"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." I Cor 3:16-17


Notice we start out dry and barren, a desert place, but when we have drunk of the right kind of water...


"Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. John 4:13-14


"The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose." Isaiah 35:1

 

[Nancy]

Perhaps with men the problem is that they have moved so far away from God that at times [prior to what we have now] we could not hope to look on His face. Consider Moses when he asked to see God:


"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20


"(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)" Numb 12:3

Who was so meek as Moses and yet Moses was not allowed to see more than the hind parts of God?

But Jesus accomplished something that gave us a possibility that even that meekest men, Moses, did not have. We see now that the Apostle Paul wrote that there is to be a "then":

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12


As for approaching that throne, how about sitting with him in his throne? Is that a close approach?

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." Rev 3:21-22

""For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12"

And boy that glass can get pretty dark, if we let it!
It's always been my belief that Moses could not look upon God and live was speaking to Moses sinful nature and, the brightness of God's Glory (as God cannot abide sin) would just blow him over, ha! I do not know why I have thought that, never heard a sermon on this specific part of scripture...sure, in passing but not ever a study.

"...but then shall I know even as also I am known."
...as also I am known. Is that referring to our "new nature" or "glorified body"? Who we really are in Christ? This part of the verse seems vague...as many seem to be. ♥

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Luke 9:58
[58] And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

The Head has completed its work and is ready to rest in its place over the Body of Christ. Our work is to become a place for Jesus to rest, to lay his Head, which is that place of rest and/or habitation which David also sought for his Lord...

That is good Amadeus. Only could come from God. Luke 13:32 “And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.”

 

[Marymog]

It's never happened like that. Why is this important to you?

Ummmmm........Why is it important to ME?

Well, because JESUS said it and he told us how to handle situations like that.

Isn't what Jesus said important to you????

Mary

 

[Episkopos]

Ummmmm........Why is it important to ME?

Well, because JESUS said it and he told us how to handle situations like that.

Isn't what Jesus said important to you????

Mary

Sure. But not every possible situation will happen to everybody.

 

[Marymog]

If a man dunking you in water could wash away sins, why did Jesus have to shed His blood?

What do you think the purpose of Him dying was?

Dear friend,

Your argument is not with me, it is with Scripture (Paul and Peter specifically). Therefore if you get to heaven you should ask them for they are the ones who said this, not me: And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Repent, AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

Jesus had to die so that he could raise from the dead. His death did not wash away my sins. In FACT, he gave the Apostles the ability to forgive OR retain sins: Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

So now I ask you: If, as it seems you are suggesting, the death of Jesus washed away the sins of all men (specifically the first century Christians) why did Jesus give the Apostles the authority to forgive sins??? According to your theory their sins were already washed away by His death???

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

Sure. But not every possible situation will happen to everybody.

Fasinating....You have NEVER had a difference with any of the people who meet in your house church???? Does your house church have a plan in case that situation does happen?

If not you better get one....it's gonna happen

Oh, wait a minute.....there already is a plan for WHEN it happens. It's in Matthew 18

So I ask you again: When you meet in your house with your brothers and you have a brother that sins against you and you take two of your brothers with you to correct them and they refuse to listen to the three of you who do you go to to settle your differences?

Mary

PS....How may people are members of your house church?

 

[Marymog]

A Good line..

It may be a GOOD line for those who do not know scripture. Maybe you could help @Episkopos out.

Quote from Paul and Peter: And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Repent, AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

So please do tell BG.....Do you believe those two quotes suggest that dunking in water washes away sin? Or was Paul and Peter wrong?


If you BG believe His death was to wash away sins then why did He give the Apostles the ability, AFTER HIS DEATH, to forgive OR retain sins? Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

How could the apostles forgive or retain something that was already allegedly washed away by Jesus?


Curious Mary

 

[Episkopos]

Fasinating....You have NEVER had a difference with any of the people who meet in your house church???? Does your house church have a plan in case that situation does happen?

If not you better get one....it's gonna happen

Oh, wait a minute.....there already is a plan for WHEN it happens. It's in Matthew 18

So I ask you again: When you meet in your house with your brothers and you have a brother that sins against you and you take two of your brothers with you to correct them and they refuse to listen to the three of you who do you go to to settle your differences?

Mary

PS....How may people are members of your house church?

It's not our house church...it is a local expression of gathering around Christ....that numbers in the millions all over the world.
This location's numbers vary from week to week...but around 20. We have many guests and people passing through.

We don't have a problem like a brother sinning against another like that. Maybe if we were in a hotter country perhaps???
People work out their own differences between themselves. If there is a bigger problem...it's not based on a brother doing something to another like that. It has to do with spiritual direction.

But we have seen pretty much everything else. We have been meeting in homes for about 30 years now.

 

[Episkopos]

It may be a GOOD line for those who do not know scripture. Maybe you could help @Episkopos out.

Quote from Paul and Peter: And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Repent, AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

So please do tell BG.....Do you believe those two quotes suggest that dunking in water washes away sin? Or was Paul and Peter wrong?


If you BG believe His death was to wash away sins then why did He give the Apostles the ability, AFTER HIS DEATH, to forgive OR retain sins? Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

How could the apostles forgive or retain something that was already allegedly washed away by Jesus?


Curious Mary

Baptism is for the washing away of sins that are in the past only. It's like when you take a shower. Does a shower remove all dirt from the past or for all time...into the future?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Dear friend,

Your argument is not with me, it is with Scripture (Paul and Peter specifically). Therefore if you get to heaven you should ask them for they are the ones who said this, not me: And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Repent, AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

Jesus had to die so that he could raise from the dead. His death did not was away my sins. In FACT, he gave the Apostles the ability to forgive OR retain sins: Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

So now I ask you: If, as it seems you are suggesting, the death of Jesus washed away the sins of all men (specifically the first century Christians) why did Jesus give the Apostles the authority to forgive sins??? According to your theory their sins were already washed away by His death???

Bible study Mary

hi mary.
I see the forg iving and so they are not retained in heaven or not forgiving and so they are retained in heaven as a very sober matter. I don't trust myself to be involved in it In the way you see the verse. So I pray for sins to not be counted against men and retained in heaven. What is the worst a man can do to me, kill me? And even an apostle in that situation asked God to forgive and not count their sins/ retain their sins in heaven.

As to the Precious Blood not washing away/ bringing forgiveness of sins, but only a man doing something that will wash away my sins, I most vociferously disagree, based on the whole of scripture.

 

[Episkopos]

hi mary.
I see the forg iving and so they are not retained in heaven or not forgiving and so they are retained in heaven as a very sober matter. I don't trust myself to be involved in it In the way you see the verse. So I pray for sins to not be counted against men and retained in heaven. What is the worst a man can do to me, kill me? And even an apostle in that situation asked God to forgive and not count their sins/ retain their sins in heaven.

As to the Precious Blood not washing away/ bringing forgiveness of sins, but only a man doing something that will wash away my sins, I most vociferously disagree, based on the whole of scripture.

This also relates to the righteousness of God. When Jesus said that forgiving and retaining sins were the province of His disciples...it meant that a saint IS the righteousness of God on earth...just as he is the light of the world.

But that is because Christ is living through them. So it is the CHRIST in them that is doing the judging in a certain matter. It isn't given to someone because of their person. We are all but vessels.

 

[Marymog]

It's not our house church...it is a local expression of gathering around Christ....that numbers in the millions all over the world.
This location's numbers vary from week to week...but around 20. We have many guests and people passing through.

We don't have a problem like a brother sinning against another like that. Maybe if we were in a hotter country perhaps???
People work out their own differences between themselves. If there is a bigger problem...it's not based on a brother doing something to another like that. It has to do with spiritual direction.

But we have seen pretty much everything else. We have been meeting in homes for about 30 years now.

Thank you Episskopos.

Lol....Only in the warm countries (warmer than Canada) do we sin against each other. I guess people in the northern States sin less than the ones in the southern States. Glad to hear you have the perfect church were everyone gets along. I wish I could find that

And really, when you think about it, going in the wrong spiritual direction is not really a sin. Becoming Islamic or joining a church specifically because they support gay marriage AND have gay pastors or joining a church that thinks abortion is not the killing of a child.....That's not really a sin or a sin against your brother. It's means you made a bad choice of who you listen to and a bad choice of a denominational church or house church. Bad choices are not sins!!!

I am fascinated that you have millions world wide that meet in house churches. If you go to another country for an extended period or move to another country and you want to join your fellow house church Christians do they post on a website where those house are? Or do you just start your own house Church?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

hi mary.
I see the forg iving and so they are not retained in heaven or not forgiving and so they are retained in heaven as a very sober matter. I don't trust myself to be involved in it In the way you see the verse. So I pray for sins to not be counted against men and retained in heaven. What is the worst a man can do to me, kill me? And even an apostle in that situation asked God to forgive and not count their sins/ retain their sins in heaven.

As to the Precious Blood not washing away/ bringing forgiveness of sins, but only a man doing something that will wash away my sins, I most vociferously disagree, based on the whole of scripture.

Can you quote a portion of this "whole of scripture" that you speak of that backs up your belief?

Mary

 

[Episkopos]

Thank you Episskopos.

Lol....Only in the warm countries (warmer than Canada) do we sin against each other. I guess people in the northern States sin less than the ones in the southern States. Glad to hear you have the perfect church were everyone gets along. I wish I could find that

Come to think of it...we did have one such case..where the whole church got involved to judge the situation based on an offense. That was like 17 years ago. I think people in cooler countries are also cooler headed...or it seems that way.

it's lime that Alert guy who continually posts about demons...saying that he attacks sex demons with ice...or something like that. Maybe a cold shower?

So we get a lot of that cold shower up here!

And really, when you think about it, going in the wrong spiritual direction is not really a sin. Becoming Islamic or joining a church specifically because they support gay marriage AND have gay pastors or joining a church that thinks abortion is not the killing of a child.....That's not really a sin or a sin against your brother. It's means you made a bad choice of who you listen to and a bad choice of a denominational church or house church. Bad choices are not sins!!!

There are a lot of spiritual sins. These are the worse kind...as they are iniquity. They are also the most difficult to root out...since it is God who is being offended. We DO see to those sins.

Bad choices can lead to very grievous sins...unless a change in direction is forthcoming. it's like turning down the wrong street. Ar first it is a mistake...until pride kicks in...then it is intentionally going the wrong way.

I am fascinated that you have millions world wide that meet in house churches. If you go to another country for an extended period or move to another country and you want to join your fellow house church Christians do they post on a website where those house are? Or do you just start your own house Church?

Curious Mary

There are many such websites...that show where the house churches are located. And then there are personal contacts....and visits.

i believe we cannot start a church. It must be the Holy Spirit. Jesus said "I will build MY church".

So we leave the building to Him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, I believe I can, mary.

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

And if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ, his son, cleanses us from all sin.

And, the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

And, according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

And, not with the blood of bulls and calves, but with His own blood He entered the most holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

 

[Marymog]

Come to think of it...we did have one such case..where the whole church got involved to judge the situation based on an offense. That was like 17 years ago. I think people in cooler countries are also cooler headed...or it seems that way.

Wow. Your church is really blessed. It's been 17 years since you have had a fellow brother sin against you or anyone in your house church.

Do you recall how the judgment went down? Were all of the church members in agreement against this one person? Or was there some dissent?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Heb. 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

That is PART of scripture. Have you ever read the ENTIRE scripture on this matter??? One does not cancel out the other.

Mary

BTW....Hebrews 9:22 IN CONTEXT talks about the shedding of the blood of calves mixed together with water. Furthermore you forgot(?) to highlight the words "one may ALMOST say"..... Kind of weakens your argument a little bit eh'?