Spirit, Holy or spirit not holy...that is of God or godless

[amadeus]

Between Breath and Spirit, man often wants to make a distinction, but does God?

What would the "breath" of God be? God is, I believe, we would agree, a Spirit, that is an entity without physical substance as we of the flesh know it. We breathe "air", but what would God breathe?

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

Did not God breathe into man Life, or the basis of Life? It was not "air", but wasn't it His Spirit, the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit? Without God would it not be a dead spirit and certainly not Holy?

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

So then man died...

When did man die?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

They did eat of that tree and they died although they continued to walk around and talk and even attempt to cover their naked "dead" bodies...

Remember what Jesus said?

"And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:21-22

He was speaking to a disciple as if the disciple were alive, because the disciple was able to "hear" Him. Not everyone could hear Him, because they were too content with living in death. Those who believed in Jesus were ones who were alive! Lots of 'dead men walking'!

"And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5:38-40 Was Jesus talking to dead men?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

So then believing in Jesus is Life itself, not life, which every man sees and understands, but Life as God sees it and understands it.

Adam and Eve were dead as soon as they had disobeyed and eaten from the wrong tree. Their natural children were all dead as well until they came to Jesus... Without the Spirit of God men have a dead spirit... but they often speak of themselves as being alive.

So did not even Abel who was murdered by Cain come to Jesus? Did he not come to Life?

"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." Heb 11:4

Men died and remained spiritually dead because while they retained a spirit in them it was no longer a Holy Spirit. It had been fouled by men. In God's eyes, it was dead.

Abel, of course, wasn't the only one in the OT who was became righteous in the eyes of God.

What Jesus promised us was power so that each of us could do what Abel did, and, of course, much more than Abel did.

God was going to breathe on men again.. yes, a second time! Something perhaps like being born again?


This is what Jesus promised and it is what began on that day of Pentecost described here:

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:16-17

Again as that prophet wrote it:

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit." Joel 2:28-29

 

[amadeus]

@Nancy @BarnyFife @Hidden In Him @everyone else on the forum interested... My mind has just gone blank for other names here!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Between Breath and Spirit, man often wants to make a distinction, but does God?

What would the "breath" of God be? God is, I believe, we would agree, a Spirit, that is an entity without physical substance as we of the flesh know it. We breathe "air", but what would God breathe?

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

Did not God breathe into man Life, or the basis of Life? It was not "air", but wasn't it His Spirit, the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit? Without God would it not be a dead spirit and certainly not Holy?

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

So then man died...

When did man die?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

They did eat of that tree and they died although they continued to walk around and talk and even attempt to cover their naked "dead" bodies...

Remember what Jesus said?

"And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:21-22

He was speaking to a disciple as if the disciple were alive, because the disciple was able to "hear" Him. Not everyone could hear Him, because they were too content with living in death. Those who believed in Jesus were ones who were alive! Lots of 'dead men walking'!

"And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5:38-40 Was Jesus talking to dead men?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

So then believing in Jesus is Life itself, not life, which every man sees and understands, but Life as God sees it and understands it.

Adam and Eve were dead as soon as they had disobeyed and eaten from the wrong tree. Their natural children were all dead as well until they came to Jesus... Without the Spirit of God men have a dead spirit... but they often speak of themselves as being alive.

So did not even Abel who was murdered by Cain come to Jesus? Did he not come to Life?

"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." Heb 11:4

Men died and remained spiritually dead because while they retained a spirit in them it was no longer a Holy Spirit. It had been fouled by men. In God's eyes, it was dead.

Abel, of course, wasn't the only one in the OT who was became righteous in the eyes of God.

What Jesus promised us was power so that each of us could do what Abel did, and, of course, much more than Abel did.

God was going to breathe on men again.. yes, a second time! Something perhaps like being born again?


This is what Jesus promised and it is what began on that day of Pentecost described here:

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:16-17

Again as that prophet wrote it:

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit." Joel 2:28-29

While reading your post this was on my mind

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/ecclesiastes/12-7.htm

not sure it helps in any way, but still couldn’t help thinking about ‘the breath returns to God who gave it.’

 

[Hidden In Him]

Between Breath and Spirit, man often wants to make a distinction, but does God?

What would the "breath" of God be? God is, I believe, we would agree, a Spirit, that is an entity without physical substance as we of the flesh know it. We breathe "air", but what would God breathe?

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

Did not God breathe into man Life, or the basis of Life? It was not "air", but wasn't it His Spirit, the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit? Without God would it not be a dead spirit and certainly not Holy?

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

So then man died...

When did man die?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

They did eat of that tree and they died although they continued to walk around and talk and even attempt to cover their naked "dead" bodies...

Remember what Jesus said?

"And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:21-22

He was speaking to a disciple as if the disciple were alive, because the disciple was able to "hear" Him. Not everyone could hear Him, because they were too content with living in death. Those who believed in Jesus were ones who were alive! Lots of 'dead men walking'!

"And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5:38-40 Was Jesus talking to dead men?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

So then believing in Jesus is Life itself, not life, which every man sees and understands, but Life as God sees it and understands it.

Adam and Eve were dead as soon as they had disobeyed and eaten from the wrong tree. Their natural children were all dead as well until they came to Jesus... Without the Spirit of God men have a dead spirit... but they often speak of themselves as being alive.

So did not even Abel who was murdered by Cain come to Jesus? Did he not come to Life?

"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." Heb 11:4

Men died and remained spiritually dead because while they retained a spirit in them it was no longer a Holy Spirit. It had been fouled by men. In God's eyes, it was dead.

Abel, of course, wasn't the only one in the OT who was became righteous in the eyes of God.

What Jesus promised us was power so that each of us could do what Abel did, and, of course, much more than Abel did.

God was going to breathe on men again.. yes, a second time! Something perhaps like being born again?


This is what Jesus promised and it is what began on that day of Pentecost described here:

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:16-17

Again as that prophet wrote it:

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit." Joel 2:28-29

Is there a question, brother? It all seems pretty solid to me. Not even much to add really. But then maybe you are insinuating something that I'm too dim to catch on to yet. Was there something you were asking for input on in particular?

God bless, and hope you're having a wonderful evening.
- H

 

[amadeus]

While reading your post this was on my mind
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Lexicon: then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

not sure it helps in any way, but still couldn’t help thinking about ‘the breath returns to God who gave it.’

Yes, in that verse, indeed in that book penned by Solomon 3,000 years ago is found a description of man, carnal man, man without the Holy Spirit. He has still the dust from which he was formed by God, but it is essentially an empty shell without the Life which God initially gave. Men killed themselves in that first disobedience, but God had prepares His plan well offering to the dead children the opportunity of Life indeed, the Holy Spirit , Life indeed in place of that dead spirit, which men call life.

The verse you mention is often read at the funerals of men before their natural families and friends when even the shell has finished its time here:

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecc 12:7

The physical body back to planet Earth from whence it came and the spirit... or should we say Spirit to God?

In that spirit of men, walking dead men, had still a glimmer of hope... but if they never moved toward the distant Light, then they would never receive again the Life that Adam and Eve lost. Their tiny glimmer never became the glorious Light of our Lord and our God. That tiny glimmer returned to God, but the man who had it had no more Hope.

The Hope of men, all of us when we have been dead before God, is found in Jesus who was sent to bring more abundant Life to us. Yes, more abundant Light than that of Adam and Eve before they disobeyed.

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath." Matt 13:12

What shall be taken away? The glimmer of hope that each of us had which we buried in the earth instead of using it to move toward the Hope which Jesus brought.

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

Why Life more abundantly? Consider that Adam and Eve were removed from Eden without ever partaking of the Tree of Life.

 

[dev553344]

@Nancy @BarnyFife @Hidden In Him @everyone else on the forum interested... My mind has just gone blank for other names here!

Hey, my favorite scripture is Galatians 5:22-23

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What shall be taken away? The glimmer of hope that each of us had which we buried in the earth instead of using it to move toward the Hope which Jesus brought.

Job 14:19 The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.

2 Corinthians 1:8-11 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life: [9] But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: [10] Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us ; [11] Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf.

may seem like the above doesn’t fit with topic but concerning Spirit ...what is “the gift bestowed upon us”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecc 12:7

the above reminds me of
“the dust returns to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it”
2 Corinthians 4:16-18 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish(the dust returns to the earth as it was), yet the inward man is renewed day by day. [17] For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; [18] While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

bbyrd always mentioned ‘when you return to Me, I will return to you’.

Jesus Christ told Peter regarding satan wanting to have him to sift ...when you are converted (return) strengthen your brothers.

Maybe I’ve misunderstood your thread but possibly to provoke thought on the difference in spirit and Spirit? 1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

 

[amadeus]

Is there a question, brother? It all seems pretty solid to me. Not even much to add really. But then maybe you are insinuating something that I'm too dim to catch on to yet. Was there something you were asking for input on in particular?

God bless, and hope you're having a wonderful evening.
- H

All is well with me my friend in the Spirit today. I won't get into the flesh part... LOL.

Quite a bit of discussion on this forum recently with regard to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit most people would agree is God, the One who is Holy indeed. When the Holy Spirit is in us and leading us that is good, for as Jesus said,

"...there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18

People get wrapped up in the character or nature or make up of God, insisting that He is this or that to the point it seems that the discussion or argument has become more important than the One we are to love: Trinity, Twoness, Oneness, Multiplicity? How important is the difference to someone who loved Him or to someone who does not love Him?

What is to be first?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33


If two who have believed in God become sharply separated by their differences on this point, which no man can prove absolutely one way or another to his opponent, could it not cause both of them to miss the strait and narrow way which leads to Life?

My OP was instigated in me by what I was seeing in the worst of these discussions, arguments, etc. about Trinity, Twoness, Oneness or Multiplicity. I was hoping some of those reading what God gave me here would realize how foolish some of these confrontations are and perhaps for some even, as a result, are found then entering the wide way that "leadeth to destruction". Unbelievers certainly are foolish, but are they more foolish than those who have believed and lost sight of their first Love?

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev 2:4-5

 

[amadeus]

Hey, my favorite scripture is Galatians 5:22-23

Indeed a good place to read from listing some of the good fruit from God:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Gal 5:22-23

 

[amadeus]

the above reminds me of
“the dust returns to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it”
2 Corinthians 4:16-18 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish(the dust returns to the earth as it was), yet the inward man is renewed day by day. [17] For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; [18] While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

bbyrd always mentioned ‘when you return to Me, I will return to you’.

Amen! Good insights from God via bbyrd. Read also Jesus explanation as to why he spoke in parables here:

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.'' Matt 10-13

Jesus Christ told Peter regarding satan wanting to have him to sift ...when you are converted (return) strengthen your brothers.

Maybe I’ve misunderstood your thread but possibly to provoke thought on the difference in spirit and Spirit? 1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

No you are on it. You don't need to answer the following questions, but considering them may help us seek and then see His face or..?

What does it mean to be born again?

What is the Holy Spirit versus the spirit of the old man?

How does this connected with the Spirit of God? ...with the Way and character of God?

Did God breathe the Holy Ghost into us?

Considering the Holy Spirit, how did Adam and Eve change after they disobeyed God?

If we have been born again, how are we different or the same as Adam and Ever before they disobeyed?

 

[amadeus]

Famine in the land... So few want to eat of the flesh and drink of the blood of Jesus but of the quail they are rushing to partake.

The Holy Spirit of God is working where not being quenched, but a whole lot of quenching going on... Help us dear Lord.

If this is a better Christian forum... guess what is happening in those that are worse.

 

[Truman]

Famine in the land... So few want to eat of the flesh and drink of the blood of Jesus but of the quail they are rushing to partake.

The Holy Spirit of God is working where not being quenched, but a whole lot of quenching going on... Help us dear Lord.

If this is a better Christian forum... guess what is happening in those that are worse.

As opposed to a whole lot of shaking goin' on. I thought this stuff was embarrassing...until God corrected my attitude!

 

[Enoch111]

Between Breath and Spirit, man often wants to make a distinction, but does God?

Both in Hebrew and in Greek the word for "spirit" can also be translated as "breath". So the context is important.

When we read that God breathed into Adam's nostrils "the breath of life" and he became a living soul, we are to understand that (1) all life comes from God, (2) in the case of Adam, his soul and spirit (which are distinct from each other, yet very closely connected) were both very much alive, and a living soul was ideally one where both the soul and spirit were totally alive. The day Adam sinned his spirit died, but his body and soul continued to live for 930 years. We do not see Adam listed among the saints of God in Hebrews 11.

The one who breathed into Adam was none other than the Word of God -- the Lord Jesus Christ. Since no man has seen God the Father at any time, it was the pre-incarnate Word who created Adam, then breathen into Adam the breath of life, and then fellowshipped with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Had Adam and Eve remained obedient, they could have partaken of the Tree of Life. But that was not to be.

After the Fall, all human beings are born with a spirit which is dead. Therefore every person must be born again by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that his or her spirit comes alive. At the same time, the Risen Christ breathed upon His eleven apostles after His resurrection, and they all received the Holy Spirit. This was exceptional.

After Pentecost, God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to the one who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is the Spirit who regenerates the sinner, then comes to indwell the believer, and then empower the believer.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Between Breath and Spirit, man often wants to make a distinction, but does God?

What would the "breath" of God be? God is, I believe, we would agree, a Spirit, that is an entity without physical substance as we of the flesh know it. We breathe "air", but what would God breathe?

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

Did not God breathe into man Life, or the basis of Life? It was not "air", but wasn't it His Spirit, the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit? Without God would it not be a dead spirit and certainly not Holy?

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

So then man died...

When did man die?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

They did eat of that tree and they died although they continued to walk around and talk and even attempt to cover their naked "dead" bodies...

Remember what Jesus said?

"And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:21-22

He was speaking to a disciple as if the disciple were alive, because the disciple was able to "hear" Him. Not everyone could hear Him, because they were too content with living in death. Those who believed in Jesus were ones who were alive! Lots of 'dead men walking'!

"And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5:38-40 Was Jesus talking to dead men?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

So then believing in Jesus is Life itself, not life, which every man sees and understands, but Life as God sees it and understands it.

Adam and Eve were dead as soon as they had disobeyed and eaten from the wrong tree. Their natural children were all dead as well until they came to Jesus... Without the Spirit of God men have a dead spirit... but they often speak of themselves as being alive.

So did not even Abel who was murdered by Cain come to Jesus? Did he not come to Life?

"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." Heb 11:4

Men died and remained spiritually dead because while they retained a spirit in them it was no longer a Holy Spirit. It had been fouled by men. In God's eyes, it was dead.

Abel, of course, wasn't the only one in the OT who was became righteous in the eyes of God.

What Jesus promised us was power so that each of us could do what Abel did, and, of course, much more than Abel did.

God was going to breathe on men again.. yes, a second time! Something perhaps like being born again?


This is what Jesus promised and it is what began on that day of Pentecost described here:

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:16-17

Again as that prophet wrote it:

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit." Joel 2:28-29

Sounds like the basis for a good Sunday sermon! I wonder how the people in my church would receive it if I preached it?

 

[Truman]

I don't advocate chasing after manifestations but rather following the leading of the Holy Spirit. And being open to what He wants to do.

 

[amadeus]

Sounds like the basis for a good Sunday sermon! I wonder how the people in my church would receive it if I preached it?

I would agree a good basis, but the receipt by the people really depends very much on those individuals, their established foundation and history before they met the Master and since... Put it to good use as God enables you! Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

I don't advocate chasing after manifestations but rather following the leading of the Holy Spirit. And being open to what He wants to do.

When there are manifestations, hopefully then in you is discernment to know the source of the manifestations, be they of God or of men! In the leading of the Holy Spirit should be your discernment.

 

[Truman]

It is my opinion that you get both. When a cold and warm weather front collide, many things can happen. Someone needs to be keeping an eye on things. My opinion is that a team is best.

 

[amadeus]

It is my opinion that you get both. When a cold and warm weather front collide, many things can happen. Someone needs to be keeping an eye on things. My opinion is that a team is best.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20