St. Patrick kept the Sabbath.

[Behold]

Can't get more demonic than that!

Not only was John Calvin a complete nutjob, Martin Luther was too! View attachment 39603

Martin Luther, .. originally, was a devout Catholic, and a Translator...,. and one day he was given the "Next Translation" assignment as his work and he did some "textual" manuscript comparing.
He then took a look at what Jerome had Translated, that had became Catholic Theology, and noticed that Jerome mistranslated "Repentance" as "PENANCE"... And even today the Catholics are doing "penance" based on a terrible mistranslation by Jerome.
And He did it on purpose, because Jerome, like all Catholics, believe that WORKS and Faith and Water are "the Gospel"... So, Jerome mistranslated repentance as "penance" so that the Catholics would all have to do that LEGALIST Work all their LIFE..

So, at some point, right about this time, God moved on Martin Luther's Heart, and God opened His eyes to the Grace of God, and eternal redemption that is the "imputed righteousness" that Paul teaches..
In other words reader, God led Martin Luther to Paul's Doctrine.
And He was profoundly profoundly empowered by God, to get OUT of the "Cult of Mary" and this was such a strong anointing.. that He took Christianity away from the DARK AGES Satanic Cult, and "Pro-Tested" against this Cult, and the "Protest-ant" movement began, and here we are today on a "Protest-ant" Forum.

Had Martin Luther not obeyed God, being willing to DIE by being burned by the "cult of mary".......then we would be talking about Mary and "chewing on the real Jesus", and believing that we might be heading to Purgatory.

Yes, really.

 

[Scott Downey]

Straight from the Apostles who observed Sabbath day?

There is nothing wrong with having church on Saturday, but there is something wrong with telling other people their faith is in vain if they DO NOT KEEP the Saturday sabbath, as commanded in the Law of Moses.

Saturday - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Scott Downey]

If any says you must keep the Law of Moses to be saved, which includes commandments about the Sabbath, that is serious error.
Just where will you draw the line and you say keep the Law, but you do not keep the Law and all it's sacrifices and ordinances,, your a hypocrite.

Scripture tells us no one keeps the Law, all are lawbreakers except for Christ.

Acts 7
52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”

54 When they heard these things they were [a]cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Law of Moses vs the Law of Liberty

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you [e]show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[BlessedPeace]

There is nothing wrong with having church on Saturday, but there is something wrong with telling other people their faith is in vain if they DO NOT KEEP the Saturday sabbath, as commanded in the Law of Moses.

Saturday - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Conversely, there is something wrong with telling Sabbatarians,Sabbath keepers, they are not Jews,or, that the law of Moses doesn't apply to Christians, and there is no reason therefore to honor the Sabbath.

The Sabbath day was appointed by God for man in the beginning. As Jesus said. The Sabbath was made for man,not man for the Sabbath.
Perhaps the anger is because people don't understand what that means.

This is why Jesus said, when he reiterated the other commandments and synopsized them into two.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself.

And he said, remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because he gave us the Sabbath being he is the Lord that gave it to man.

 

[Scott Downey]

Conversely, there is something wrong with telling Sabbatarians,Sabbath keepers, they are not Jews,or, that the law of Moses doesn't apply to Christians, and there is no reason therefore to honor the Sabbath.

The Sabbath day was appointed by God for man in the beginning. As Jesus said. The Sabbath was made for man,not man for the Sabbath.
Perhaps the anger is because people don't understand what that means.

This is why Jesus said, when he reiterated the other commandments and synopsized them into two.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself.

And he said, remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because he gave us the Sabbath being he is the Lord that gave it to man.

Exodus 20:8
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Found in the Law of Moses, Jesus did not say it.

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 12, Jesus tells us the priests profane the sabbath and are blameless, so much for keeping the sabbath.

1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”

3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple [a]profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord [b]even of the Sabbath.”

Again the Law of Moses, judgement and condemnation or the Law of Liberty, I prefer the Law of Liberty
If I do 'work' on the Sabbath, God holds me guiltless as I experience His mercy and not His judgement as a Christian. People of faith in the OC, God also held guiltless even if they profaned the Sabbath because of their faith.

 

[Scott Downey]

Healing on the Sabbath​

9 Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue. 10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him.

11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other. 14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Exodus 20:8
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Found in the Law of Moses, Jesus did not say it.

Yes,he did. Unless you claim Jesus was not the Lord that gave us the Sabbath.

Jesus honored the Sabbath just as the Apostles did.


Mark 2:27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ok.

Now question for you. What is it about him that makes so many people follow him and rely on him so readily?

Or more aptly the five "tulip" points?

As for myself... I was born, raised and still belong to a denomination that is Predestined in thought and teachings. But the more I read and study the more I pulled away from those beliefs.

I acknowledge God has all foreknowledge and knows who will be His.... But save for a few of the chosen...
like Jeremiah whom God chose for a specific purpose, I simply do not believe all were known and formed in the womb.

In any event... Back to Calvin.

What makes his ideas so believable and not Ellen G white or Joseph Smith.

Or those in our time of David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite, or even Jim Jones... each of which had a specific following.

Well I do not follow a Calvinistic religion as I do not accept many tenets of reformed theology.

As for the five points?

AFAIK belief in teh five points is a minority held position. Just like the belief in the five points of Jacob Armenius is a minority held position.

Most believers fall into the three of four point calvin category.

I believe in them for they are very biblical. When I did research to learn which position is the most biblical, those who held to the five points presented there argument with loads of Scri[pture while the 2,1 and five point Armonicists used lots of philosophical reasonings.

Before I even started studying the varied theologies within the church, I studied the bible alone for several years and came to believe in the five points of Calvin through Scripture alone. when someone told me I was a fie pioint Calvinist, I didn't even know what they meant and had to learn.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are here preaching TULIP Calvinism...
That's not a strawman, that's your reason to be on the forum.

And like i told you.. once you put that stuff in your head...... its over.
Someone led you to read it? If so that person led you to the devil.
See, CALVIN takes control of your mind and has you talking about Him, his Theology, and you can't help yourself.
His Theology replaces the bible... and you dont even realize it, as that is what demonic Calvinism does to the mind.

You're the proof.
Brightframe is the Proof.
Episkopos has a dose of it also, but he's not usually quite as LOUD about it, and out of control.

This is a Christian forum, not a Forum for spreading the theological cancer that is John Calvinism.
Neither of you (2) can comprehend this, because Calvin has your MIND.

You actually believe that Calvinism is Christianity, and you feel the compulsion to keep talking about HIM and what HE teaches.

Its sad what He does to people.

Even right now, brightframe has sent me some posts so that he can try to Talk about His Cult leader, some more for us.

And you'll do it as well, @Ronald Nolette

Once again you lie, beat your strawman, and divert and deflect from defending the wild allegations you have made.

Why are you afraid to show why the five points of Calvinism are demonic? Or is it that you just prefer to slander and defame and hope no one calls you out on making allegations and not defending your vomitus words?

Still waiting to see why you call the five points satanic. All we have so far is just your vomit on a screen defaming and lying about people.

 

[Scott Downey]

The whole purpose of the LAW given by God was as a tutor to lead people to Christ and the Law of Liberty.
God established a NEW covenant with mankind, not based on following the Law which He did give to Moses.
But God obsoleted that OC, and it passed away. And that includes the sabbath laws. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Galatians 2:16
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.


Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[Scott Downey]

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

The Law Brings a Curse​

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[Scott Downey]

Purpose of the Law​

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Once again you lie, beat your strawman, and divert and deflect from defending the wild allegations you have made.

Why are you afraid to show why the five points of Calvinism are demonic? Or is it that you just prefer to slander and defame and hope no one calls you out on making allegations and not defending your vomitus words?

Still waiting to see why you call the five points satanic. All we have so far is just your vomit on a screen defaming and lying about people.

Maybe you might refrain from calling someone a liar when thinking you have a better grasp on what is not satanic behavior.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

There is nothing wrong with people observing the traditional day of Sabbath

There is if they believe it's required for salvation as many of them do along with many of the the Hebrews roots adherents!

Straight from the Apostles who observed Sabbath day?

The Apostle never taught anyone that observing Saturday sabbath was required under the New Covenant.

There is nothing wrong with having church on Saturday, but there is something wrong with telling other people their faith is in vain if they DO NOT KEEP the Saturday sabbath, as commanded in the Law of Moses.

Exactly!

Conversely, there is something wrong with telling Sabbatarians,Sabbath keepers, they are not Jews,or, that the law of Moses doesn't apply to Christians, and there is no reason therefore to honor the Sabbath.

You folks don't understand what replaced Saturday sabbath under the New Covenant.

It's a rest far, far superior that Saturday sabbath under the Law of Moses which has been taken away

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Some adherents keeping Saturday sabbath frequently ask “where did the Lord take Saturday sabbatrh way?”
The answer can be found in Hebrews 10:9 and in Hebrews 7:12.

Jesus honored the Sabbath just as the Apostles did.

And neither one taught or said at any time... that Christians are required to keep Saturday sabbath.

You do know we are under the New Covenant now right, and not the old covenant?

Maybe you might refrain from calling someone a liar when thinking you have a better grasp on what is not satanic behavior.

Those believing Saturday sabbath is required for salvation may not be "lying" but they certainly are mistaken.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Maybe you might refrain from calling someone a liar when thinking you have a better grasp on what is not satanic behavior.

Well as his refusal to defend his allegation that teh five points of Calvinsism are satanic is not the reason why I call him a liar that is a moot point you make.

He is a liar for he has falsely accused me of things. He has declared things I believe which I explicitly told him I didn't. that is why Behold is a liar.

I do not call people liars for disagreeing on doctrinal issues. I call them liars when they deliberately lie about things.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Well as his refusal to defend his allegation that teh five points of Calvinsism are satanic is not the reason why I call him a liar that is a moot point you make.

He is a liar for he has falsely accused me of things. He has declared things I believe which I explicitly told him I didn't. that is why Behold is a liar.

I do not call people liars for disagreeing on doctrinal issues. I call them liars when they deliberately lie about things.

Not a moot point. The last part of your statement is refuted by your post that I addressed. The liar attack is clearly all about doctrinal disputation. The five points of Calvinism.

I'm not going to argue this with you.
Your post: IMHO,you really can't claim a higher moral ground when you speak to someone in such a way.

"Once again you lie, beat your strawman, and divert and deflect from defending the wild allegations you have made.

Why are you afraid to show why the five points of Calvinism are demonic? Or is it that you just prefer to slander and defame and hope no one calls you out on making allegations and not defending your vomitus words?

Still waiting to see why you call the five points satanic. All we have so far is just your vomit on a screen defaming and lying about people."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not a moot point. The last part of your statement is refuted by your post that I addressed. The liar attack is clearly all about doctrinal disputation. The five points of Calvinism.

If thatr is how you are reading it, it is a misread.

I have always called Behold a liar for accusing me of things I do not believe. anything else is a false read of my statements.

Please paste my words that call Behold a liar for a disagreement over doctrine.

I call HIm deceptive and a deflector and evasive for not defending his allegation that the five points are demonic.

He has called me demonic, a disciple of Calvin, an acolyte of Calvin, brainwashed by Calvin etc.etc. all those are lies.

He did not post one doctrinal defense of all His lies!

Your post: IMHO,you really can't claim a higher moral ground when you speak to someone in such a way.

"Once again you lie, beat your strawman, and divert and deflect from defending the wild allegations you have made.

Why are you afraid to show why the five points of Calvinism are demonic? Or is it that you just prefer to slander and defame and hope no one calls you out on making allegations and not defending your vomitus words?

Still waiting to see why you call the five points satanic. All we have so far is just your vomit on a screen defaming and lying about people."

Well that is your opinion.

But I will always challenge someone who calls themselves a believer, makes extreme allegations and then does not show from Scripture why they make those allegations.

I will also always call one a liar when they accuse me of belieivng something I do not believe and then still say I do!

Maaybe to your moral code it is not the high ground, but AI see many many in Scripture taking that same tactic to challenge those who accuse and not present the evidence.

 

[BlessedPeace]

If thatr is how you are reading it, it is a misread.

I have always called Behold a liar for accusing me of things I do not believe. anything else is a false read of my statements.

Please paste my words that call Behold a liar for a disagreement over doctrine.

I call HIm deceptive and a deflector and evasive for not defending his allegation that the five points are demonic.

He has called me demonic, a disciple of Calvin, an acolyte of Calvin, brainwashed by Calvin etc.etc. all those are lies.

He did not post one doctrinal defense of all His lies!

Well that is your opinion.

But I will always challenge someone who calls themselves a believer, makes extreme allegations and then does not show from Scripture why they make those allegations.

I will also always call one a liar when they accuse me of belieivng something I do not believe and then still say I do!

Maaybe to your moral code it is not the high ground, but AI see many many in Scripture taking that same tactic to challenge those who accuse and not present the evidence.

I was going to reply. However I find my spirit is not in it. I shall pray for you.