Strong Delusion
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Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
To punish all those who stubbornly refuse to love the truth and be saved.
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
When God's Will and His kindness and generosity are irreversibly held in contempt, what else is there except delusion?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Moses wrote down the exact words of God called the book of Genesis. Moses did not view Genesis 1:1 as a gap in time. Moses was told to Remember the 7th Day. It was 1000 years of perfection before God planted the Garden of Eden and placed Adam in it. Satan rebelled after the 7th Day. The only time water destroyed the entire earth was Noah's Flood. There is no plausible reason to accept there was a prior creation, and that Satan was bound for 1000 years. Satan had 1000 years to sit and think. Way too much time, if you ask me. Obviously all that thinking turned him "mad". Satan used "withholding of information" against Eve. Satan, as the serpent, was punished at the same time Adam and Eve were. That is the logical point, a third of the Angels, followed Satan and his quest to be God.
The Jews to whom Jesus spoke here:
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They were not believers in him as has been suggested by someone else. Jesus makes that clear in the whole of those verses. Particularly when he tells them their father is not Abraham.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The text tells us right at the outset that Jesus was speaking to the jews who believed in him.....check it.
The question that it begs is what's the story with these 'believers'?
There are many 'believers' when it is convenient. They seem to mouth all all the right stuff till it comes to bearing a cross and to being self honest.
I think if you check it you will see verse 31 telling us Jesus was speaking to the Jews that had
believed him.
Not, that did believe him.
It is to those same Jews that he is speaking to in the rest of the verses.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
lol...now that's really pulling the text apart to support a predetermined view.
That is the scripture. Think about it.
You believe Jesus would call Jews that believed in him (not had, as in, use to believe in him), and Jesus who was also God the father, that their father is the Devil?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
it is obvious that by the end of Jesus' discourse the Jews who had 'believed' in him revealed themselves. Is it any different today? People divide the scriptures to suit themselves calling it belief. When the testing time comes, the claimants determine the truth of the matter by their behaviour.
By the end of the discourse in John 8 the Jews who had, use to, believe in him and to whom he was speaking, took up stones to kill him with.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
OK. I have never accepted the "Gap Theory", and I believe each day of the Creation Week was one rotation of the earth, however long that took back then. It is also my practice to gently advise Theistic Evolutionists that they are not Bible-believers since their position requires millions of years of mutation and death before the first complete human apparently resulted, a position that is not compatible with Scripture.
Thanks for the response ,but is it not those who are Christians that the delusion comes upon ? Those not in Christ are already delusional ,right ?
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Strong G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
Total KJV occurrences: 2
No, n2thelight. No genuine Christian apostasises. The great apostasy or falling away sorts out the genuine Christians from the false Christians.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Joh 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, (26) but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. (28) I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. (29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. (30) I and the Father are one."
The word APOSTASY literally translates as "away from post or position", not to be confused with APOSTLE which translates as "sent from post or position".
2Th 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, (10) and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (11) Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, (12) in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The "them" in verse 11 above is those who refused to love the truth. They may have liked the truth and so kept company with Christians, but they didn't love the truth enough to avoid being deceived by the lawless one manifesting Satan.
Dredged up thread, but here it is taught also in the Old Testament
Isaiah 66 verse 3 AND 4
Thus says the Lord:
“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
2 For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
3 “He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol.
Just as they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So will I choose their delusions,
And bring their fears on them;
Because, when I called, no one answered,
When I spoke they did not hear;
But they did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight.”
Isaiah 66 verse 3 AND 4
Thus says the Lord:
“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
2 For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
3 “He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol.
Just as they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So will I choose their delusions,
And bring their fears on them;
Because, when I called, no one answered,
When I spoke they did not hear;
But they did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight.”
In regards God sends them strong delusions ?
Jesus does not send any delusions regardless ! does he ?
Now in regards God ? OK some things are set regardless, like gravity ?
So in regards the set things, like delusions ? well that is of this world.
But does God send this too or is it truly clearly a set issue of reality ?
So God or Jesus is not the issue truly at all, but the situation that bears ? It is so !
Such is not the workings of Christ Jesus at all, but is a foundation issue, that is set. in regards this issue !
Jesus does no wrong, so as to do right ! That is clearly a Mans works thing or religious stuper clearly of the Lost ! It's set.
Sends is maybe more like, such bring on !
Now the issue I have with such, is that if God sends such, who the hell is God ? It's not Christ Jesus !
So God sends strong delusions ! sounds just like the Talmud to me ! something is truly wrong in all this ? it stinks !
We have temptations, that is a workings of God ! he set it so ? we have the ability to be lead astray, that's our free will ! and we need free will, it's set ! that is not wrong ! but we also can rise above such if we are worthy of understanding how to deal with such. because one is mature enought to deal with such.
This world leads all astray, that's it's Power ! it's full of deceptions and delusions ! God created it that way in fact ? it has to be so ! but God calles us out of such and into the Kingdom of God ! That is the Standard set for us all, but we have to over come that hurdle first. this is reality ! it sets us apart, as their is a great void between the carnal and the Saved !
The Carnal will fail, that's reality rergardless, God has that Set ! but it has to be so ? but their is a way forward !
The Setting is the issue ? God does not will it such, but some things are so. Like gravity, you toss yourself off a cliff and reality is so, God set the Laws so. but it's just reality ! or maybe I could fly off the roof of my house, well well God set such realitys and I understand that I can not fly off the roof top in fact !
All evil is caused by Man trying to out smart God in fact, but we know not to be such a smart ass in fact, because we know you can not beat Nature or God, such is just playing stupid games ! nothing good comes from doing wrong ! but ok someone will cop it because people do wrong ! and another thing is the one who does wrong can get away with such ? but some poor bugger cops it.
Like one could point another out as an abomination ! but the majority do not have a clue in fact, or do not be suprised if they back him up regardless. for they love the darkness and are in feer of the Light in fact ! Vampires ? the living dead, working to such the life blood out of everyone ! and they are everywhere the Governments suport such.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Yes their falling away to the wrong Messiah will put them in condemnation.
But like n2thelight said, if they do it in 'ignorance', i.e., spiritually blinded by God Himself, as Paul refers to in Romans 11, then does that mean God is going to literally destroy them, never removing the blindness He put upon them?
Not everyone who claims to believe on Lord Jesus Christ will be allowed to approach Him at His table when He returns. Matthew 7 reveals how some believers will be cast to the "outer darkness" at His return, even the unprofitable servant. Does that mean those are then destroyed? NO!
But if you have been subjected to men's false Amill theories, which disregards the Revelation 20 Chapter, and believes all deceived and wicked are destroyed on the day of Christ's future return, then no doubt you'd be in great confusion about this.
What God's Word reveals for after Christ's future 2nd coming, is the wicked and deceived will be in a place of separation apart from Christ and His faithful elect. And it will be the job of Christ's faithful elect priests to teach His people the difference between the holy and the profane, and the clean and the unclean. That is what Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect will be about. Those whom God Himself blinded will then have their blinders removed, and then by their own free will that will be their 1st opportunity to believe, or not believe, and be held accountable for their decision.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Because that's what the calvinists get for not accepting everything God teaches in His Word.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Based on what? Where is the source of truth we are going to work together on?
ewq1938
Well-Known Member
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2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:4 In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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