Tammy Peterson: Rosary Testimony - (wife of Jordan Peterson)

[Aunty Jane]

Interesting note: Power and authority are not the same. Power is "taken." Authority is "given." God (Jesus) gave His Church and those running it His authority to govern and sanctify. He gave the Apostles and their successors the authority to forgive sins, among other things. (John 20:19-23) Christ identifies as one with His Church. (See Acts 9:4) Persecute Christ's Church and you persecute Christ.

This operates on the assumption that Roman Catholicism was ever “Christ’s church”….by their “fruits”, Jesus said you would recognize his true disciples…..the loving but persecuted peacemakers.…..but the Catholic church were not the persecuted peacemakers......they were the persecutors of innocent people and supporters of the warring nations, (as the monstrous torture of innocent people in the inquisition demonstrated.) Would Christ be a party to that? The Christ created by the church maybe, but not the Christ who gave his life for those sinners who might repent. Forced confessions under torture were merely an excuse to murder. Power corrupts as we all know.

Most were converted to Catholicism by conquest, at the point of a sword….does that make genuine Christianity seep into the hearts of individuals who were taught about about a burning hell of eternal torment if you dared to question the teachings of the “apostolic fathers“. It was they who were the sowers of the “weeds”. Read your Bible and see that the RCC in no way resembles first century Christianity.

 

[TheHC]

Not sure if you watched the video, but how would we explain the healing and prophecy revealed there?

Excuse me, but I’d like to interject something here:

(Hello, I hope you’re well.)

How could we explain healing & prophecy? You might be surprised….

In Matthew 7, vs.15, (NIV), Jesus talked about true & false prophets:

““Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.”

So how would we discern? Jesus continued in vs16:

“By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”

Then in vss.22&23, Jesus gives a very interesting prophecy; he said,

“Many will say to me on that day,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’“


Now these ones who claim to follow Jesus are ‘prophesying, casting out demons & performing many miracles’ — they must be, they’re telling Jesus they are — but Jesus disavows them, calling them “evildoers”!
So, Jesus is not backing them.

The pertinent question is, Where are they getting this power from?

It could be as Paul stated, at 2 Corinthians 11…
“13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.”

God’s archenemy, Satan, has fooled them!

What were / are these men doing wrong? Well, back in Matthew 7, in vs.24, Jesus said, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. …”

Simply put, these ones saying “Lord, Lord” haven’t been obedient.


In what way? The biggest way…. Jesus said to “love your brother” (John 13:35); He also said to “love your enemy” (Matthew 5:44.) Yet leaders of Christendom — & history is full of these accounts — have actually been disobedient to Christ, encouraging their members to join in conflicts, killing their own spiritual brothers.

Christians are to be no part of this world. —see James 4:4.

Not an easy stance to take, it may result in persecution, but Jesus warned us about that anyway.

Have a good day, my cousin.

 

[St. SteVen]

Well, I'll share some things I see regarding the body of Christ, taken from scripture. Jesus said, "Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst".......here He shows us the simplicity of Christ in basic form, for His body.

There's another one. What does it mean in context? (granted authority)
And does it mean that Jesus is NOT with us when we are alone?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

I stopped reading your post at this point.
I'm not here to promote Catholicism.
But I do accept Catholics as my brothers and sisters in Christ.
Even though they typically reject me.

View attachment 38180View attachment 38180View attachment 38180View attachment 38180

/

How can those who have not the Spirit be the brothers and sisters of those who do? "If ye have not the Spirit ye are none of His." Entrance into the family of God is only through the Spirit of Christ. "You did not choose me but I chose you." And Jesus also said His brothers/sisters, mother/father are those who do God's will. Mental assent (nominal belief) doesn't make one a child of God. And being a "nice" person doesn't either because the righteousness of man falls short of the righteousness of Christ. Jesus said, "Ye must be born again."

"Come out from among them and I will receive you." When we are born again and receive the Spirit we are separated from the world that knows not God, because we are translated into another kingdom. We are further told in that same passage not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Ecumenicalism has a goal, and it will end in spiritual death for those who go down that path. It's a deception. A way that seemeth right to man but ends in death. Anyone who has been born of the Spirit into the family of God has not received the spirit of the world. We are to be in the world but not of it. Love people with the love of God by all means, but do not be unequally yoked with them.....as born again believers (if one is) we have been separated unto God. It's a spiritual reality....that is even what holy means. Undoing what God has done in one's life is a falling back and falling away from Him....it's what the devil is trying to do with his sly deception. He comes only to steal, kill and destroy, and no mistake.

 

[St. SteVen]

Excuse me, but I’d like to interject something here:

(Hello, I hope you’re well.)

Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for weighing in on this topic.

How could we explain healing & prophecy? You might be surprised….

In Matthew 7, vs.15, (NIV), Jesus talked about true & false prophets:

““Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.”

So how would we discern? Jesus continued in vs16:

“By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”

That's a good point.
The reason I posted the video was because I saw good fruit and valid prophecy.
But only the few (one or two) who watched the video would know that.
Everyone else jumps in to cast judgement.
Having predetermined what they think is WRONG.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

How can those who have not the Spirit be the brothers and sisters of those who do?

That's quite an ugly condemnation to lay on the entire Catholic Church population.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

There's another one. What does it mean in context? (granted authority)
And does it mean that Jesus is NOT with us when we are alone?

/

Well, here's how I'm gleaning some of these things, from scripture. Of course He is with His people when we are alone but also there is also that He is present with His corporate body when we come together to worship and seek Him together and to edify/encourage one another. (I think of it as a kind of corporate anointing.) We need to have our minds renewed to see better how things ought to be in Christ's body:


1Co 14:26

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Eph 4:16

From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.



Here is a beautiful passage about authority:

Mar 10:42-45

But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.

But so shall it NOT be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:

And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(That word minister is not a title of privilege as it is so often treated, on the contrary it simply means to serve, to be a servant. And Jesus is telling us that authority in the church is not to be the same as worldly authority.)


More insight into the body of Christ:


1Co 12:13-27

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

For the body is not one member, but many.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

And if they were all one member, where were the body?

But now are they many members, yet but one body.

And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. (Clergy/laity division is a clear violation of this…..Catholicism in spades and Protestantism never got rid of this worldly fleshly practice either.)

And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


I take it that those with greater gifts have a greater responsibility and spiritual authority. Particularly apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, and evangelists. But as the scriptures teach, we are all to submit to one another, and as well submit in a voluntary way to those who are over us in authority in the body of Christ, so as to not hinder and make their work more difficult than it already is. (Heb 13:17)

 

[Lizbeth]

That's quite an ugly condemnation to lay on the entire Catholic Church population.

/

I was raised in Catholicism and most Catholics are not born again, that is just a sad fact. I'm not condemning anyone....except that I think God would consider it an indictment of the leadership. Catholics need evangelizing....the gospel and need to be born of the spirit is not generally preached or taught, and as well the Holy Spirit would need to be present. (Hard to get people born of the Spirit in a place where there is no life of the Spirit.) And any who do come to Christ need to become separate from all the error that is taught and practiced in that organization, once they learn of it through learning God's word.

 

[St. SteVen]

I was raised in Catholicism and most Catholics are not born again, that is just a sad fact.

Is it that they are not born again, or more like they aren't "Born-Again"?
"Born-Again" being an evangelical term for a specific mindset and approach to a relationship with God.
I wasn't raised in Catholicism, so I don't have the firsthand knowledge that you do. But...
The Catholics that I have spoken with seem to confirm a relationship with God.
Although they put WAY too much emphasis on the Church (capital C) and Tradition. IMHO

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Well, here's how I'm gleaning some of these things, from scripture. Of course He is with His people when we are alone but also there is also that He is present with His corporate body when we come together to worship and seek Him together and to edify/encourage one another. (I think of it as a kind of corporate anointing.)

While I agree with that, I think the provided common "proof-text" doesn't support it. "Wherever two or three come together..."
Part of the problem is that "gather" is a bad translation. IMHO
I think "come together", as in agreement, works much better with the context.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Is it that they are not born again, or more like they aren't "Born-Again"?
"Born-Again" being an evangelical term for a specific mindset and approach to a relationship with God.
I wasn't raised in Catholicism, so I don't have the firsthand knowledge that you do. But...
The Catholics that I have spoken with seem to confirm a relationship with God.
Although they put WAY too much emphasis on the Church (capital C) and Tradition. IMHO

/

Being born of the spirit is not a mindset or approach. It is a real and miraculous encounter with the Living God whereby He, Christ, takes up residence (His Spirit) within the temple of our body/soul. It is by His Spirit within that we are reconciled (re-connected) to God. Christ IN us the hope of glory. We receive revelation and faith that is not of our own, and find ourselves changed and going in a new direction than before, seeking His kingdom and righteousness.

1Pe 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively (LIVING) hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Jhn 1:12-13

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

While I agree with that, I think the provided common "proof-text" doesn't support it. "Wherever two or three come together..."
Part of the problem is that "gather" is a bad translation. IMHO
I think "come together", as in agreement, works much better with the context.

/

Come together or gather in one accord....yes. In Christ's name, to seek and worship Him together.

 

[Lizbeth]

Although they put WAY too much emphasis on the Church (capital C) and Tradition. IMHO

Absolutely agree, and it is sad, because as Jesus said, we cannot serve two masters or partake of two tables at the same time.

And in my experience and observation, unfortunately Catholicism has a way of innoculating its adherents against the gospel, they don't generally come to realize their need of Christ, because of wrongly thinking they have Him already and are going to heaven because of having a nominal belief and doing all the right religious rituals and trying to be a "good person". So sometimes the Lord will first bring us out (of the false) in order to bring us in (to the true). That is what happened with me.

 

[St. SteVen]

Come together or gather in one accord....yes. In Christ's name, to seek and worship Him together.

No. I disagree.
Not what it means in context.

/

 

[Augustin56]

Well, I'll share some things I see regarding the body of Christ, taken from scripture. Jesus said, "Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst".......here He shows us the simplicity of Christ in basic form, for His body. There are gatherings of believers (congregations) who come together to pray and worship and minister and to edify itself..."the body edifying itself in love". Within those gatherings everyone has spiritual gifts distributed as the Spirit wills, and authority in the congregation depends on one's gifting and role. And nobody is infallible, everyone is accountable to one another so to speak, and to God. Jesus also gave guidelines regarding ministering (serving) and the exercise of authority.....because authority in the church is not like authority in the world.

No one is, indeed, infallible...on their own. The Pope, however, is infallible when defining doctrine for the whole Church (and the world), in such a manner in which he intends it to apply to the whole world, as the successor of Peter. This infallibility is a guarantee from Christ, not something according to his own abilities.

During Jesus' time, the kings of that time often had a second-in-command, sort of a royal steward (see Isaiah 22 for an example). This royal steward ruled the kingdom when the king was unavailable (off to war, visiting another kingdom, ill, etc.). Whatever this royal steward ruled in the king's absence was upheld by the king upon his return. He ruled with the king's authority. The symbol of this office was a large key (or two), about 2-3 ft. long, which he carried over his shoulder. This office was dynastic, i.e., if the royal steward died, another was appointed to take his place. It was ongoing.

Look at Matt. 16:19, where Jesus is talking to Peter, whom He is appointing to such an office, to govern and sanctify after Jesus rose to heaven, "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Every first century Jew knew exactly what Jesus was doing here! He was creating a dynastic office to rule and govern in His place on earth after He rose to heaven. It has His full authority. And the symbol of this office was the "keys" metioned in Matt. 16:19. If you ever look at the papal flag, you'll see two big keys pictured on it.

 

[Augustin56]

This operates on the assumption that Roman Catholicism was ever “Christ’s church”….by their “fruits”, Jesus said you would recognize his true disciples…..the loving but persecuted peacemakers.…..but the Catholic church were not the persecuted peacemakers......they were the persecutors of innocent people and supporters of the warring nations, (as the monstrous torture of innocent people in the inquisition demonstrated.) Would Christ be a party to that? The Christ created by the church maybe, but not the Christ who gave his life for those sinners who might repent. Forced confessions under torture were merely an excuse to murder. Power corrupts as we all know.

Most were converted to Catholicism by conquest, at the point of a sword….does that make genuine Christianity seep into the hearts of individuals who were taught about about a burning hell of eternal torment if you dared to question the teachings of the “apostolic fathers“. It was they who were the sowers of the “weeds”. Read your Bible and see that the RCC in no way resembles first century Christianity.

Seeing as the Catholic Church was the ONLY Church for a long time (Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D.), then it has to be Christ's Church.

Judging by the fruits of the individuals, as you have implied, means that you shouldn't be Christian at all, since of the first 12, one as Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Our Lord. Another, Peter, the one He assigned to govern and sanctify His Church after He rose to heaven, denied Him three times. The rest, excep for John, deserted Him like cowards in His hour of need.

So, by your implied standards, no one should be Christian.

But that's not Christ's standards. The Church is not a museum of Saints. It is a hospital for sinners. If you never sinned, you don't need the Church.

 

[St. SteVen]

This infallibility is a guarantee from Christ...

How do you substantiate this claim?

Look at Matt. 16:19, where Jesus is talking to Peter, whom He is appointing to such an office, to govern and sanctify after Jesus rose to heaven, "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Is not this authority available to all believers? Not just Peter.

Matthew 18:18-20 NIV
“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[a] bound in heaven,
and whatever you loose on earth will be[b] loosed in heaven.
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for,
it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Seeing as the Catholic Church was the ONLY Church for a long time (Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D.), then it has to be Christ's Church.

Judging by the fruits of the individuals, as you have implied, means that you shouldn't be Christian at all,

Seems to me that there were good reasons to leave the Catholic Church. Need I list them?
How can you fault the Protestant Reformation?

/

 

[Aunty Jane]

Seeing as the Catholic Church was the ONLY Church for a long time (Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D.), then it has to be Christ's Church.

This where I shake my head at Catholic people......you are so convinced that Christ was “Catholic” that you have no concept that what he taught was with a Jewish mindset in explaining Jewish scripture...the only scripture there was in the first century.

The Jews were God’s nation and he gave them his laws to teach them what was acceptable to him. No human apart from Jesus was in a position to do anything outside of what God commanded....and he never did. The authority he had was from his Father, because he was “the son of God”...not once in any scripture is Jesus ever called “God the Son”...that was a Catholic invention....not even made official church doctrine until the 4th century...yet the whole of Christendom has been led to believe that its true without question.

Later they added “God the Holy Spirit” yet not once in all of scripture is that stated either. So where did this three headed god come from?...not the Bible. He did not exist in the Hebrew Scriptures from which Jesus himself taught.

What did the church do with the Bible itself? It forbade anyone to own or read God’s word for themselves. Only priests could read the scriptures and then convey to the ignorant people in their churches what “the church” said was true. They had no way to know for themselves whether it was, and were dissuaded from ever asking questions. In the Bible, the ancient Beroeans were commended for checking the scriptures themselves to make sure that what they were taught was true. (Acts 17:10-11)

Catholic people were never given that opportunity but were instead instilled with fear of a burning hell of eternal torment if they dared to question anything “the church” taught, no matter how far removed it was from scripture because they knew no better and had no way to make sure that what they were taught was even true.

It’s the ignorance that the church played on for centuries, that is not acknowledged.....drunk with its own power, even over earthly kings.....so much for not being “friends with the world”. (James 4:4)

Judging by the fruits of the individuals, as you have implied, means that you shouldn't be Christian at all, since of the first 12, one as Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Our Lord. Another, Peter, the one He assigned to govern and sanctify His Church after He rose to heaven, denied Him three times. The rest, excep for John, deserted Him like cowards in His hour of need.

So, by your implied standards, no one should be Christian.

Nonsense.....even God knows what it is like to have rebellious children.....it’s what the abuse of the gift of free will can lead to. It’s why we are living this life to reinforce the fact that free will was never intended to be used to impose our will on others. Every evil committed on this planet is the result of an abuse of free wil in some manner, shape or form.

We had to learn how to drive it in all circumstances, and learn from our mistakes.....some do, but the majority are apparently clueless. Human nature is not attuned to the doing of God’s will as we can see all down through our sad and sorry history....it’s the will of one imposed on another and no one thinks about God’s will much at all.

But that's not Christ's standards. The Church is not a museum of Saints. It is a hospital for sinners. If you never sinned, you don't need the Church.

Even the definition of a “saint” in the RCC is a joke.....the papacy lobbies God to make someone a “saint” and there has to be so many miracles in order to be declared one.....are you serious? The Bible states very clearly that the choosing of a “saint” is entirely God’s business.....no human intervention is necessary.

If “the Catholic church” is a “hospital for sinners”, then that explains why so many of them commit sins on a regular basis.....all they need to do is go into the little box, confess to another sinful man what they did wrong, and receive absolution so they can go off and do it all over again.....that is not a hospital...that is nothing more than a pathetic band aid. Put it on today, then rip it off and put on a new one next week.

What Catholics believe is so over and above anything Jesus taught that it seems they go to great lengths to rewrite scripture to accommodate their very unscriptural doctrines. You guys can believe them if you wish....I’d run a mile.

 

[TheHC]

Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for weighing in on this topic.


That's a good point.
The reason I posted the video was because I saw good fruit and valid prophecy.
But only the few (one or two) who watched the video would know that.
Everyone else jumps in to cast judgement.
Having predetermined what they think is WRONG.

/

Thank you for the welcome, my cousin.