Tares Reveal Themselves by what they DON’T Say...And They Are With us Here .How to Identify Them...

[Ferris Bueller]

If Christians no longer sin, why does Paul talk about Believers “ Caught up in Sin” ( Gal 6) or being tormented by the Sins that “ So EASILY beset us” ? Why has God set up the frequently mentioned program of CHASTISEMENT for Believers ? Is God in the business of Punishing Children That no longer Sin?

You always fail to recognize the distinction between the person who is unchanged in their unsaved condition and the truly saved person struggling with sin. You can't use the 'but everybody sins' argument to rationalize a lifestyle of sin in the 'Christian' who claims to be born again. John says the person who is unchanged in a life of sin is not born again and is not of God. But Progressive Christianity lies to people living in unrepentant lifestyles of sin and says that is not true. And so our churches are full of unsaved, unrepentant people who think they are saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God does not make us robots with no freedom.....we are Free to be wise, obedient Children and be rewarded accordingly , or we can choose to be foolish ,rebellious children and suffer the consequences .....for better or worse, we are STILL Children of God...

No, you are not a child of God if you are living in sin.......

"By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God..." 1 John 3:10​

John said he is telling us this so we won't be deceived by such people. They do NOT belong to God. They are not saved. John said do not let anyone deceive you about this....

"Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil..." 1 John 3:7-8
​

Progressive Christianity is deceiving millions of people in the church today with it's filthy lie that saved people do not have to be changed people. Saved people are changed people because they have received the righteousness of God into themselves via the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Nice post, but I just think that although people can be “Moral” , and that is the type of “ Righteous ness” that I believe you are speaking of.....The “ Morality” Of the best man that ever lived is STILL “ filthy rags” when compared to Perfection—- and Perfection is what God demands to be fit for Heaven....

I think we are arguing from opposite ends of the spectrum. I agree that perfection was needed to get to the Tree of Life. But that has been rendered moot by the fact of Christ's atonement. Now we know that imperfect righteousness is well able to get to the Tree of Life, through the atonement of Christ. None of us are perfect, and yet we are all able to get to the Tree of Life through the atonement of Christ.

That type of Perfect Righteousness is a type that can only be IMPUTED to a person, through their Faith in Jesus Christ.....

I'm not sure what you mean by this, unless you mean that the virtue of Christ, which is perfect, has to be what we adopt in order to produce acceptable righteousness before God? Even though Christ's righteousness is perfect, ours is not--not even when we put it into practice. We may produce Christ's love, but it comes through imperfect vessels. And yet, due to the atonement of Christ, it becomes acceptable to God.

It is not merely "imputed" to us, in the sense it is "reckoned" to us, but it is also given to us spiritually, as an energy force that we can put into use. Otherwise, what is the use of just considering it ours if we don't even apply it?

I realize that the word "reckon" is used by Paul to show that not only do we apply it, but we have to also have to have our flaws covered. We have to exude Christ's righteousness and at the same time have his blood cover our imperfections.

This is what it means to have Christ's righteousness "reckoned" to us, because his atonement covers our flaws, even as we demonstrate his spiritual virtue in our lives. But as I said, without exuding his virtue, what practical value is it to have Christ's own virtue "reckoned" to us?

Being Moral is much better than being Immoral.....Hell will be full of “ moral” men....God is not looking for moral men.....He us looking for DEAD men, Dead in Trespasses and sin , who are aware of their lost condition, admit their lost condition and turn to God with Faith in Jesus to alleviate their Lost Condition....

I very much agree. We must completely suspend the use of our autonomous selves in favor of a partnership with Christ. It is not all Christ, and it is not all us. Rather, it is a partnership in which we defer to Christ's preeminence in our lives. We defer to his righteousness, and to dependence upon him, and reject all sense of autonomous living. We put that to death!

We do not die, and let Christ do everything for us. Rather, we die to our autonomous selves, and then choose to make our decisions only in partnership with Christ, letting him be Lord in everything.

We are not slaves, but children. As such, we are free to make our own decisions, but not *autonomous* decisions, ignoring the imperative of Christ being in it spiritually. And that only happens when we obey him, and walks in his laws.

In a sense we are slaves--slaves to God's Law. But having Christ's virtue within us, we are not really being justified by law, but rather, by the fact Christ's virtue is within us. It is in essence a lawful virtue. When we choose to be slaves of the good we are just choosing to be who we've already chosen to be, determining to overcome compulsions that come from our old selves.

Let’s all strive to be as good as we can be.....be obedient to God and He will bless you for it—— Just don be confused and think you get “Saved” because of it....Faith is what Saves....Faith Plus Nothing...it really is “ NOTHING but the Blood”.....

Our salvation is dependent on our choice for Christ. Our choice for Christ entails choosing to live the moral life *together with Christ,* and reject moral living *apart from Christ.* It is choosing to live in Christ that is critical.

But it is also critical that when we choose Christ we choose to live a moral life in Christ as well. You cannot have one without the other. To choose to have Christ is to choose his moral virtue, as well.

That is the Law we follow, simply requiring that we continue in his virtue, and resist compulsions that come from the autonomous man. We choose Christ for our justification, but choosing him is choosing for righteousness, and choosing to resist living independent of him.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You always fail to recognize the distinction between the person who is unchanged in their unsaved condition and the truly saved person struggling with sin. You can't use the 'but everybody sins' argument to rationalize a lifestyle of sin in the 'Christian' who claims to be born again. John says the person who is unchanged in a life of sin is not born again and is not of God. But Progressive Christianity lies to people living in unrepentant lifestyles of sin and says that is not true. And so our churches are full of unsaved, unrepentant people who think they are saved.

This makes no sense.....you contradict yourself....you say the Born Again man can’t sin, yet you talk about the the Saved man who “ struggles with sin”...... which is it?

Lot was a Saved man.....in fact, he was a “ hero of Faith” .....yet he was rotten from the beginning of his life until the end of it where he died drunk in a cave after raping his own daughters , having never Repented of anything....the only “ changes” in his life were changes for the worse....how do you account for him? Seems to be the case that FAITH Plus Nothing Saved Him....not Repentance or the refraining from Sin....he was thoroughly “ unchanged” yet Saved .....

I can use the “ everybody sins” argument anytime I choose to.....anybody who is not an idiot or is not delusional knows that they sin every hour of every day.....thank God for His Grace.....It is the only thing that will work aa far as Salvation is concerned.....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This makes no sense.....you contradict yourself....you say the Born Again man can’t sin, yet you talk about the the Saved man who “ struggles with sin”...... which is it?

It's 'struggles with sin'. As opposed to 'living in sin', you know, like an unconcerned, unconverted unbeliever. Big difference between the two. One is born again, the other is not. That's what the Bible says, not me. Progressive Christianity says that's not true.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I can use the “ everybody sins” argument anytime I choose to.....anybody who is not an idiot or is not delusional knows that they sin every hour of every day.

You need to stop ignoring the clear distinction between the converted man and his struggle with sin, and the life of sin of the unconverted man. If you do not think this distinction exists then you explain to us what John is talking about when he makes this distinction in his letter:

"7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:7-10​

Progressive Christianity is deceiving millions of people into thinking they are converted when in fact they are not. John says to not let anyone deceive you about this: People who live in and practice sin are unconverted. Those who don't are saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lot was a Saved man.....in fact, he was a “ hero of Faith” .....yet he was rotten from the beginning of his life until the end of it where he died drunk in a cave after raping his own daughters , having never Repented of anything....the only “ changes” in his life were changes for the worse....how do you account for him? Seems to be the case that FAITH Plus Nothing Saved Him....not Repentance or the refraining from Sin....he was thoroughly “ unchanged” yet Saved .

You're exaggerating and misrepresenting the account of Lot. Let's go to the Bible itself for the real story......

"...He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)" 2 Peter 2:7-8
​

There's a difference between the righteous life of Lot, and the unrighteous, lawless lives of the people he lived among. Progressive Christianity says this difference does not exist and that Christians are just as ungodly as non-Christians. That's a filthy, deceitful lie deceiving millions of people in the church today. If you still look and live like the world you aren't born again. That's what the Bible says, not me. And that's not a works gospel. That's the difference between being converted and being unconverted. Born again people are different because God's seed is in them. It has nothing to do with self righteousness.

 

[Curtis]

.To become a child of God, you must choose to receive Jesus, (John 1:12),by asking Him into your heart (Revelation 3:20), where He then dwells (Ephesians 3:17and Colossians 1:27), plus you must choose to repent and ask Him to forgive your sins so they are forgiven (Acts 3:19 and Acts 20:21), and call upon His name to be saved Romans 10:13.


Close but no cigar.....that “choose to repent” thingy? .....it sounds good but it is a False addition to Paul’s Gospel Found In 1 Cor 15:1-4......I am assuming you intend it to mean “repenting of SINS”.....Sorrow for sins or the determination to never sin again may accompany or prompt one’s Salvation.....*IF* it leads to the type of “ Repentance” that really “ does” Save.....That would be Turning to God ( Repentance) as a Lost Sinner who puts His TOTAL Faith in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus died for his Sins.....These are the Essentials for Salvation.....Read Galatians.....Adding to these essentials with ANYTHiNG, and I don’t care how “ Holy” it sounds ( conquering sin sure “ sounds” good) —- it will cause you to “ Fall From Grace” .....God does not want anybody tinkering with the True Gospel that Jesus gave to Paul.....

The person that did not believe the Gospel, But later CHANGED HIS MIND and came to Believe it—- THAT is the “ Repentance” that plays a part in Salvation .....”Repent” comes from the Greek Word “metaneo”..... it literally means “ mind change”...... Change you mind about Jesus if you don’t think you Need Him for your Salvation.....that will get the job done....

Repent and be converted.


This will show scripturally that both repentance and faith are salvational criteria - not just faith - and show that repentance isn’t automatically included with having faith, nor is repentance what happens after conversion.


And it will also show that repentance includes specifically asking God to forgive our sins, and not just changing our minds about sin.


Let’s start with what Jesus taught - but first the doctrine needs dealt with that claims nothing Jesus taught applies to the church, because Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews, but Paul preached the gospel of grace to us.


The truth is there is only ONE gospel of the kingdom of Christ and of God, offered first to the Jew, then to the gentile:


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.


All that Jesus taught applies to us, as proven by Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, preaching the kingdom:

Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the KINGDOM of God, shall see my face no more.


Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Act 28:31 Preaching the KINGDOM of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.


There is only gospel - not gospel A and gospel B.


Now back to what Jesus taught about repentance:


Jesus said He came to call sinners unto repentance, and warned that unless we repent, we shall perish:


Luk 5:30 And the Pharisees and their scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”
Luke 5:31 And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”


Luk 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.


And Jesus taught that we must ask for our sins to be forgiven before they are, in the parable of the unforgiving servant, in Matthew 18:23.


In that account, the King is God, the debtor is us, the large debt he owed the king is our sins, and debtors prison is hell.


The debtor asked the King to forgive his debt/sins, which the king did, and that kept the debtor out of debtor’s prison/hell.


Jesus also gives the example of a man at the altar repenting of his sins:


Luk 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified,


This, among other scriptures presented here, will establish that repentance - which includes asking God to forgive our sins - is required for salvation, alongside faith.


John wrote that we must confess our sins, to have them forgiven:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Paul preached both faith AND repentance is necessary, not just faith:


Act 20:20 Andhow I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you,but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, AND faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.


Repentance towards God, and faith towards Jesus: both are needed, and are separate - repentance is not automatically part of faith.


And Paul further elaborates that repentance AND faith are required


Act 26:19 “Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
Act 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and ALSO to the Gentiles, that they should repent AND turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.


In one text, Paul preached repentance toward God AND faith towards Jesus - in another that we should repent AND turn to God.


Then in Acts 3:19, we are told to repent AND be converted for the forgiveness of our sins:


Act 3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out


In that text, repentance clearly precedes conversion and forgiveness of our sins - and as 1 John 1:9 makes plain, repentance includes confessing our sins to God, for their forgiveness.


Albert Barnes explains this about Acts 3:19:


“Sin cannot be pardoned before man repents of it. In the order of the work of grace, repentance must always precede pardon. Of course, no man can have evidence that his sin is pardoned until he repents. Compare Isa 1:16-20; Joe 2:13”.


Repentance must always precede pardon. Acts 3:19.


And the account by Jesus of the unforgiving servant asking God to forgive his sins and the king then forgiving him, and 1 John 1:9, backs that up perfectly.


If it were true as some claim that repentance happens after conversion, or is part of it, then Acts 3:19 would say this: Be converted and repent, that your sins be forgiven - instead of saying to repent and be converted.


Peter also told those 3,000 who were added to the church that day, to repent, and be baptized, in Acts 2:38.


It is unequivocally clear that repentance is separate from faith; that repentance is needed, alongside faith, as part of being saved ; and that repentance includes asking God to forgive our sins, and not just changing our minds about sin.


Therefore the above facts are not a false doctrine, but are biblical fact.

 

[Curtis]

You're exaggerating and misrepresenting the account of Lot. Let's go to the Bible itself for the real story......

"...He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)" 2 Peter 2:7-8
​

There's a difference between the righteous life of Lot, and the unrighteous, lawless lives of the people he lived among. Progressive Christianity says this difference does not exist and that Christians are just as ungodly as non-Christians. That's a filthy, deceitful lie deceiving millions of people in the church today. If you still look and live like the world you aren't born again. That's what the Bible says, not me. And that's not a works gospel. That's the difference between being converted and being unconverted. Born again people are different because God's seed is in them. It has nothing to do with self righteousness.

I agree Ferris Bueller, you deserve a day off - just don’t steal your father’s Ferrari and wreck it!

Seriously, you are right on the money!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You always fail to recognize the distinction between the person who is unchanged in their unsaved condition and the truly saved person struggling with sin.


This observation/ accusation is simply not True ....who is talking about the “ Unsaved? Their Lost Condition is obvious and who cares whether they “ change” or not? They lack the Holy Spirit and are therefore “ None Of His”..... We all know ( or at least “ should” know ) that all Believers struggle with sin .....God is at work on the inside of the Believer and his new Heart , “ Transforming” The Believer into the Image Of His Son....it does not happens instantly.... and sins committed by the Believer on his Journey Of Faith are ALL under the Blood.....covered by Grace.....and even though a true Child Of God will be Chastised here on Earth for his transgressions ( for his own betterment, just as we Chastise our children) , as far as Salvation is concerned.....the totality of a Believer’s Sins are “ Forgotten” by God—— “ Your Sins I will REMEMBER NO MORE!”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Progressive Christianity is deceiving millions of people in the church today with it's filthy lie that saved people do not have to be changed people. Saved people are changed people because they have received the righteousness of God into themselves via the indwelling Holy Spirit.



If somebody picks up a RadioActive Rock and carries it with him his entire life, he is gonna be changed from the second he picked it up until the day he dies —- regardless of whether he “ feels” the change and regardless of whether anybody “ sees” the change.

The Holy Spirit is like that.....the Instant one Puts their Faith in Jesus as Savior , they are New Creations Who now possess New Hearts..... they are “ changed” whether then feel it or not and they have been changed whether it is evident or not.....

This “Change” is inevitable. The only thing that I maintain is that it could take many years to manifest itself—- this was true in my case—- and this “ change” is not what Saves us ....the Reception Of The Holy Spirit , that PROMPTS this change is the instrument of Salvation......In Truth , it is not really a “ change” in a person , done “ by” that person —— anybody can “ turn over a New Leaf” —- what is really important is the TRANSFORMATION of a person.Something only God can do. A Christian is not a man who changed his behavior—- A Christian is a man who has been Transformed because of his Faith....once again, only God can do it.....This “ Transformation” will show.....Given enough time....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It's 'struggles with sin'. As opposed to 'living in sin', you know, like an unconcerned, unconverted unbeliever. Big difference between the two. One is born again, the other is not. That's what the Bible says, not me. Progressive Christianity says that's not true.

I am unfamiliar with “ Progressive Christianity” .....do these people have a website somewhere where I can examine their “ beliefs?”......I never heard anybody preach that there is no difference between the Born Again Believer and the Unbeliever, The “ Struggling” vs the “ Unconcerned ” .....do you think that I would adhere to this type of Madness? You have seen my posts....you know better than to accuse me of this .....Let’s Get Real as opposed to trying to Score Points....False Points at that.......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You're exaggerating and misrepresenting the account of Lot



Anybody out there is free to read the account of Lot.....he was a Scoundrel whose terrible deeds can NOT be “ exaggerated”.....The only other Biblical character that I can think of that may have been worse was David, but that is another story.....

Peter’s observation is something I find hard to believe, but if Peter said it and if it is the Scriptures, it must be true.....Perhaps Lot felt bad about the stuff going on , but he sure did not hesitate to partake of it.......

Lot and David both were Wicked at times—- just like you and I have been ( just not as Extreme as them) They are Saved men despite their wickedness .....Saved because they had Faith—- the very same reason you and I are Saved.....It ain’t referred to as “ Amazing Grace” for no reason....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Repent and be converted.


This will show scripturally that both repentance and faith are salvational criteria - not just faith - and show that repentance isn’t automatically included with having faith, nor is repentance what happens after conversion.


And it will also show that repentance includes specifically asking God to forgive our sins, and not just changing our minds about sin.


Let’s start with what Jesus taught - but first the doctrine needs dealt with that claims nothing Jesus taught applies to the church, because Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews, but Paul preached the gospel of grace to us.


The truth is there is only ONE gospel of the kingdom of Christ and of God, offered first to the Jew, then to the gentile:


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.


All that Jesus taught applies to us, as proven by Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, preaching the kingdom:

Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the KINGDOM of God, shall see my face no more.


Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Act 28:31 Preaching the KINGDOM of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.


There is only gospel - not gospel A and gospel B.


Now back to what Jesus taught about repentance:


Jesus said He came to call sinners unto repentance, and warned that unless we repent, we shall perish:


Luk 5:30 And the Pharisees and their scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”
Luke 5:31 And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”


Luk 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.


And Jesus taught that we must ask for our sins to be forgiven before they are, in the parable of the unforgiving servant, in Matthew 18:23.


In that account, the King is God, the debtor is us, the large debt he owed the king is our sins, and debtors prison is hell.


The debtor asked the King to forgive his debt/sins, which the king did, and that kept the debtor out of debtor’s prison/hell.


Jesus also gives the example of a man at the altar repenting of his sins:


Luk 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified,


This, among other scriptures presented here, will establish that repentance - which includes asking God to forgive our sins - is required for salvation, alongside faith.


John wrote that we must confess our sins, to have them forgiven:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Paul preached both faith AND repentance is necessary, not just faith:


Act 20:20 Andhow I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you,but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, AND faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.


Repentance towards God, and faith towards Jesus: both are needed, and are separate - repentance is not automatically part of faith.


And Paul further elaborates that repentance AND faith are required


Act 26:19 “Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
Act 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and ALSO to the Gentiles, that they should repent AND turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.


In one text, Paul preached repentance toward God AND faith towards Jesus - in another that we should repent AND turn to God.


Then in Acts 3:19, we are told to repent AND be converted for the forgiveness of our sins:


Act 3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out


In that text, repentance clearly precedes conversion and forgiveness of our sins - and as 1 John 1:9 makes plain, repentance includes confessing our sins to God, for their forgiveness.


Albert Barnes explains this about Acts 3:19:


“Sin cannot be pardoned before man repents of it. In the order of the work of grace, repentance must always precede pardon. Of course, no man can have evidence that his sin is pardoned until he repents. Compare Isa 1:16-20; Joe 2:13”.


Repentance must always precede pardon. Acts 3:19.


And the account by Jesus of the unforgiving servant asking God to forgive his sins and the king then forgiving him, and 1 John 1:9, backs that up perfectly.


If it were true as some claim that repentance happens after conversion, or is part of it, then Acts 3:19 would say this: Be converted and repent, that your sins be forgiven - instead of saying to repent and be converted.


Peter also told those 3,000 who were added to the church that day, to repent, and be baptized, in Acts 2:38.


It is unequivocally clear that repentance is separate from faith; that repentance is needed, alongside faith, as part of being saved ; and that repentance includes asking God to forgive our sins, and not just changing our minds about sin.


Therefore the above facts are not a false doctrine, but are biblical fact.

I am in a rush and can’t respond to this fully....I just kinda glanced over it....suffice it to say for now after a cursory glance that it would appear that using your reasoning, Judas would be quite exalted in Heaven today —- Nobody “ Repented” like he did! He even performed Restitution because he gave the silver back to the Pharisees......He had so much Remorse and Sorrow for Sin that he could not go on living .....we all know the rest of the story .....I’ll return to this matter later....

 

[Curtis]

If somebody picks up a RadioActive Rock and carries it with him his entire life, he is gonna be changed from the second he picked it up until the day he dies —- regardless of whether he “ feels” the change and regardless of whether anybody “ sees” the change.

When someone is born again, there is an immediate change, that everyone notices, as they are a “new creation- Old things pass away, ALL things become new”.

Anyone who has not had such a transformation experience may be a believer, but they aren’t yet a receiver, of Jesus - who must be received John 1:12

Such a person should heed Paul’s warning to the church to examine themselves, whether they be in the faith, or a reprobate.

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[Curtis]

I am in a rush and can’t respond to this fully....I just kinda glanced over it....suffice it to say for now after a cursory glance that it would appear that using your reasoning, Judas would be quite exalted in Heaven today —- Nobody “ Repented” like he did! He even performed Restitution because he gave the silver back to the Pharisees......He had so much Remorse and Sorrow for Sin that he could not go on living .....we all know the rest of the story .....I’ll return to this matter later....

Such a response ignores the many scriptural proofs that a believer can fall and fail to remain in Christ.

Unconditional eternal security is one of the doctrines of devils scripture warns us about.

Universalists do the same thing as OSASers do - which is focus solely on their interpretation of their proof texts - while completely ignoring the scripture that refutes them.

Maranatha

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Unconditional eternal security is one of the doctrines of devils scripture warns us about.



Apparently Jesus didn’t get the memo....He was the Originator Of “ Unconditional Eternal Security”....Jesus said if you Believed in Him , you ALREADY HAD Eternal Life and could NEVER come under Condemnation....How on Earth Could Anybody with a brain not understand that.....How much plainer could it be?

 

[Curtis]

Unconditional eternal security is one of the doctrines of devils scripture warns us about.



Apparently Jesus didn’t get the memo....He was the Originator Of “ Unconditional Eternal Security”....Jesus said if you Believed in Him , you ALREADY HAD Eternal Life and could NEVER come under Condemnation....How on Earth Could Anybody with a brain not understand that.....How much plainer could it be?

You mean the same Jesus who warned a church that He spits the lukewarm out of His mouth who warned the church at Sardis that they were DEAD, had defiled their white robes, which are the righteousness of saints, and needed to repent, and further warned them that unless they overcome, He will blot their names out of the book of life?

That Jesus?

Who warned in John 15 that He’s the vine, we are the branches, and said if we fail to bear fruit, we’ll be CUT OFF the vine of Himself as a dead branch?

It’s very clear in scripture that every promise is conditional on remaining in faith and repentance, and is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and if we continue to be led by the Spirit and not by the flesh.

Paul himself says he has to subjugate his flesh daily, lest after preaching salvation to others, he end up a castaway.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring itinto subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY.

The word castaway is also ADOKIMOS in the Greek - reprobate - castaway and rejected by God.

G96 (Strong)

ἀδόκιμος

adokimos

ad-ok'-ee-mos

From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless(literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Total KJV occurrences: 8

Paul said he could end up a reprobate if he didn’t subjugate his flesh with its sinful desires, daily.

Albert Barnes exegetes the verse:

“The simple idea of Paul is, that he was afraid that he should be disapproved, rejected, cast off; that it would appear, after all, that he had no religion, and would then be cast away as unfit to enter into heaven”.


John Wesley also exegetes 1 Corinthians 9:27:


“This single text may give us a just notion of the scriptural doctrine of election and reprobation; and clearly shows us, that particular persons are not in holy writ represented as elected absolutely and unconditionally to eternal life, or predestinated absolutely and unconditionally to eternal death; but that believers in general are elected to enjoy the Christian privileges on earth; which if they abuse, those very elect persons will become reprobate. St. Paul was certainly an elect person, if ever there was one; and yet he declares it was possible he himself might become a reprobate. Nay, he actually would have become such, if he had not thus kept his body under, even though he had been so long an elect person, a Christian, and an apostle.”


Paul never taught unconditional eternal security - in fact he taught the opposite.


Paul not only said he could end up a reprobate if he didn’t subjugate his flesh with its sinful desires, daily, he also wrote many conditional statements about continuing in the faith to remain in Christ, one of which follows:


Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in yourmind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


Col 1:23 IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled,and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, andwhich was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


Albert Barnes commentary exegetes the above passage:


“If ye continue in the faith - In the belief of the gospel, and in holy living. If this were done, they would be presented unblameable be fore God;if not, they would not be.The meaning is, that it will be impossible to be saved unless we continue to lead lives becoming the gospel.”


The many conditional statements Paul made are ignored by Calvinists and the OSAS camp, because they are fatal to their doctrinal scenario of unconditional eternal security.

You can continue to ignore scriptural fact that there is no unconditional eternal security- there is however conditional eternal security - if we remain in faith and repentance.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Unconditional eternal security is one of the doctrines of devils scripture warns us about.



Apparently Jesus didn’t get the memo....He was the Originator Of “ Unconditional Eternal Security”....Jesus said if you Believed in Him , you ALREADY HAD Eternal Life and could NEVER come under Condemnation....How on Earth Could Anybody with a brain not understand that.....How much plainer could it be?

Not 'believed'....'believes'. You changed the tense of the verb in the verse. Only people who presently believe have eternal life. As long as you are believing in God you will never be condemned. No believing person will ever go to the lake of fire. Only people in a state of unbelief will go to the lake of fire. That's why the Bible tells us to keep believing.

Can a person stop believing? I don't know. I just know you have to continue to believe to be saved when Jesus comes back. So what does it matter? Let's just keep telling people what the Bible does plainly say......keep believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

using your reasoning, Judas would be quite exalted in Heaven today —- Nobody “ Repented” like he did! He even performed Restitution because he gave the silver back to the Pharisees......He had so much Remorse and Sorrow for Sin that he could not go on living .

"Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death." 2 Corinthians 7:10