Tell me, have you seen him?
- Thread starter Matthias
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DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
I wonder if this is in his pure form.
"Then the man said, 'Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.'"
I have had a few experiences with God. Seen the father, no.
And don't forget the burning bush.
PS95
Well-Known Member
That's right. Visibly, we have not seen God in His fullness of glory. No one has. Not even Moses.
But what we do see is Jesus who said if we have seen Him we have seen and know the Father. John 14:9
Your verse is only speaking about visuals.
Taking “Jesus is God” as our starting point, we know that John isn’t speaking in this verse about the Messiah -> John himself had seen the Messiah, and so had a goodly number of other persons.
Who then is John speaking about when he says, “No one has seen God at any time”?
Who then is John speaking about when he says, “No one has seen God at any time”?
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
Revelation 22
13 ... "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
And then what is said...
16 "I, Jesus, have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
"before Abraham was born, I am!’
Equal.
PS95
Well-Known Member
If you don't hit reply I don't get notified to reply back. But you know that, right?
John was speaking about God in his full glory in heaven. Jesus was on earth in the flesh.
John is speaking about Yahweh - the God and Father of the lord Jesus Messiah.
No. My setting notifies me when anyone posts in a thread which I’ve posted in, whether they quote a post of mine in the thread or not.
I quote a post if there is something in it that I want to comment on.
PS95
Well-Known Member
So YHWH said to Moses, “I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”
And he said, “Please, show me Your glory.”
Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”
And YHWH said, “Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.
Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.
Exodus 33:17-23
Moses saw Yahweh. Moses saw Yahweh’s back, not his face - yet Yahweh and Moses spoke face to face (Exodus 33:11).
PS95
Well-Known Member
I think we can be certain of that. If Moses had literally spoken face to face with Yahweh, Moses would have died.
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.”
(Matthew 5:8)
Is Jesus speaking or not speaking here about Yahweh?
Yes , he saw the backside of God . Moses also took evidence of that back to the Israeli camp , his face was glowing so brightly they made him wear a veil over his face . What a sight that must have been to see Moses with the glowing face !
Exodus 34:33
God has a backside which can be seen by a mortal man but a face which cannot be seen by a mortal man. Do you think there will ever come a time when a man can literally see Yahweh’s face and live?
PS95
Well-Known Member
There are many examples in scripture of man seeing Yahweh in visions.
“No one has ever seen God” -> but many have seen God in visions suggests to me that John wasn’t speaking about man seeing Yahweh in visions. It seems to me that this brings us back once again to “no human person“ has yet literally to see the face of the God of Moses.
A mortal human person cannot literally see Yahweh’s face and live? What about a man who has been changed from mortal to immortal? Can such a man then literally see Yahweh’s face and live?
PS95
Well-Known Member
Do you think Jesus has seen His Father? Jesus knew that He came down from heaven. Why do you say he had no pre-existence?
John 6:38
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me
John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
John 6:62
Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?
1 Cor 15: 47
The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48As is the earthy one, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly one, so also are those who are heavenly. 49Just as we have borne the image of the earthy,]we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
Phil 2
He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross. 9For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Yes.
All good things come down from heaven.
I don’t say that Jesus had no preexistence. I say that Jesus has a preexistence.
I’ve addressed all of these verses - over and over and over again - in other threads.
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