Temples

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daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
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Olam Haba
ENOCH2010 said:
Thanks Roy for helping me out with that reply. I wouldn't have the time to copy the scripture he requested.

daq contradicted his-self at least once in his reply to me which I will bring to light. He has said many times that the evil spirit that leaves a body can go out to find 7 more evil spirits and return, so that the man is worse now than before. I say when Jesus cleans a body of the evil within, that it stays clean forever. The evil one wont be returning. I'm not saying a person will live a sinless life after being born again, I'm saying a person has eternal security once he has excepted the fact that he can do nothing to earn his salvation, it is a free gift from God .

It was not me who said those things but rather me that has quoted multiple times Yeshua saying those things:


daq said:
Proverbs 30:11-14 KJV
11. There is a generation [1] that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12. There is a generation [2] that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13. There is a generation, [3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14. There is a generation, [4] whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

Daniel 7:7 KJV
7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Matthew 12:38-45 KJV
38. Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying,
Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation [1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this
generation, [2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this
generation, [3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation [4].

You either believe Yeshua or you do not.
And if you believe Yeshua then you will also understand Paul:

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 KJV
12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


And if you do not believe Yeshua and conform your doctrine to his Doctrine then you are not his disciple:

John 8:27-32 KJV
30. As he spake these words,
many believed on him.
31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


Romans 8:4-10 KJV
4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


The only way to have Messiah inside is to consume all of his Word-Food.
The Testimony of Yeshua is not just the Spirit of Prophecy but Spirit Holy.
If you have not the Testimony of Yeshua then you have not Spirit Holy and are none of his.

John 7:37-39 YLT
37. And in the last, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, 'If any one doth thirst, let him come unto me and drink;
38. he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39. and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.


Not yet was the Spirit Holy because Yeshua was not yet lifted up-exalted, (ruwm-hupsoo) at Golgotha.
The Spirit Holy of the Testimony of Yeshua is completed at Moriah Olivet when he says: "Tetelestai!" :)
 

ENOCH2010

New Member
Aug 15, 2012
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daq said:
It was not me who said those things but rather me that has quoted multiple times Yeshua saying those things:




You either believe Yeshua or you do not.
And if you believe Yeshua then you will also understand Paul:

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 KJV
12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


And if you do not believe Yeshua and conform your doctrine to his Doctrine then you are not his disciple:

John 8:27-32 KJV
30. As he spake these words,
many believed on him.
31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


Romans 8:4-10 KJV
4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


The only way to have Messiah inside is to consume all of his Word-Food.
The Testimony of Yeshua is not just the Spirit of Prophecy but Spirit Holy.
If you have not the Testimony of Yeshua then you have not Spirit Holy and are none of his.

John 7:37-39 YLT
37. And in the last, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, 'If any one doth thirst, let him come unto me and drink;
38. he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39. and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.


Not yet was the Spirit Holy because Yeshua was not yet lifted up-exalted, (ruwm-hupsoo) at Golgotha.
The Spirit Holy of the Testimony of Yeshua is completed at Moriah Olivet when he says: "Tetelestai!" :)
daq look at who the Lord was talking to in those verses. He was talking to the scribes and pharisees . The people that thought they had special knowledge about God. When in fact they had no knowledge at all. They thought they were right with their interpretation and everybody else had no clue about the ways of God. They thought they were righteous and had favor with God, when in fact the Lord offered them the kingdom they looked for, but with their interpretation of the Word, they looked for something else. You can't use that scripture to accuse a group of Christians, for they have something the scribes and pharisees didn't have. We Christians have excepted the gift of God, we have been cleansed from our sins by the Blood of the Lamb, when Jesus cleans a person, the evil spirit you speak of can't move back into our bodies without the Lord letting them. The Bible tells me when Jesus moves in, he is there forever.
The Bible also tells me that the Lord will come a second time to this Earth in his glorified body, will you recognize him or will your interpretation of the Word have you looking for something else.

The wrong quote appeared above, daq I was trying to quote Matt. 12:38
 

daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
821
63
0
Olam Haba
ENOCH2010 said:
daq look at who the Lord was talking to in those verses. He was talking to the scribes and pharisees . The people that thought they had special knowledge about God. When in fact they had no knowledge at all. They thought they were right with their interpretation and everybody else had no clue about the ways of God. They thought they were righteous and had favor with God, when in fact the Lord offered them the kingdom they looked for, but with their interpretation of the Word, they looked for something else. You can't use that scripture to accuse a group of Christians, for they have something the scribes and pharisees didn't have. We Christians have excepted the gift of God, we have been cleansed from our sins by the Blood of the Lamb, when Jesus cleans a person, the evil spirit you speak of can't move back into our bodies without the Lord letting them. The Bible tells me when Jesus moves in, he is there forever.
The Bible also tells me that the Lord will come a second time to this Earth in his glorified body, will you recognize him or will your interpretation of the Word have you looking for something else.

The wrong quote appeared above, daq I was trying to quote Matt. 12:38

Has it truly been myself that has been doing all of the accusing around here? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You ignored Luke 11 which also has been quoted herein and includes others from an entire crowd of people:

Luke 11:14-26 KJV
14. And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
15. But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
16. And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
17. But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18. If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20.
But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


It is the High Priest with the Finger of God who casts out devils; and when he does it is at that time that the Kingdom of God has come upon you. Therefore I said to veteran and now say the same to you according to the testimony of Paul from the passages also posted previously above:


daq said:
One must stay with the subject context Paul gave within 2 Thess.2 to know what kind of temple he was talking about. And it certainly is not the spiritual temple idea, for no false one can preside in nor corrupt the True Spiritual Temple of Christ Jesus, which is why... the True Spiritual Temple was not 'made with hands'. It was so no man could corrupt it.

Yet in 2 Thess.2 we see emphatically a false one coming to put himself in place of God sitting in a temple, which is corruption, but not of the True Spiritual Temple, but of a physical temple, pointing to a rebuilt physical temple in Jerusalem for the last days.
Yeshua disagrees with you concerning what carnal man does to the temple of God.
In fact he speaks the following warning ONLY to those who would be his disciples:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


Do you believe the above passage applies to yourself or do you not believe it?
The unclean spirit cast out is the prince of the power of the air that we formerly served.
The same is that "spirit of the world" which went out from you when you first believed.
The same is returning with all your old sins upon his head because he is your scapegoat.
Only if he was never cast out of you to begin with do you need not worry about his return.


Mark 13:37 KJV
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Do you believe the Luke 11:24-26 passage applies to yourself or do you not believe it?
The unclean spirit cast out is the prince of the power of the air that we formerly served.
The same is that "spirit of the world" which went out from you when you first believed.
The same is returning with all your old sins upon his head because he is your scapegoat.
Only if he was never cast out of you to begin with do you need not worry about his return.


Mark 13:37 KJV
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. :)
 

ajdiamond

New Member
Aug 18, 2011
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ENOCH2010 said:
daq look at who the Lord was talking to in those verses. He was talking to the scribes and pharisees . The people that thought they had special knowledge about God. When in fact they had no knowledge at all. They thought they were right with their interpretation and everybody else had no clue about the ways of God. They thought they were righteous and had favor with God, when in fact the Lord offered them the kingdom they looked for, but with their interpretation of the Word, they looked for something else.
Great words that every religionist today should read. The kingdom is within you and if you are looking anywhere else for it, then you are looking for something else.

ENOCH2010 said:
The Bible also tells me that the Lord will come a second time to this Earth in his glorified body, will you recognize him or will your interpretation of the Word have you looking for something else.
Seriously, more great advice. Instead of working out their salvation (in reality, not just a mental belief); instead of the practical actualization and realization of Christ in them (in reality, not just a mental belief); the religionist is looking and waiting for something else: the rapture and what doctrinally is called the second coming. Instead of Christ coming in them, they await Jesus returning outside of them. It is a strong delusion.



Woe unto modern Pharisees. You preach a false kingdom and shut up the kingdom that is within men. You go not within yourself, nor do you enter the kingdom within; neither suffer ye them that are longing to go in or who have gone in. (paraphr Mat 23:13)
 

ENOCH2010

New Member
Aug 15, 2012
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ajdiamond said:
Great words that every religionist today should read. The kingdom is within you and if you are looking anywhere else for it, then you are looking for something else.


Seriously, more great advice. Instead of working out their salvation (in reality, not just a mental belief); instead of the practical actualization and realization of Christ in them (in reality, not just a mental belief); the religionist is looking and waiting for something else: the rapture and what doctrinally is called the second coming. Instead of Christ coming in them, they await Jesus returning outside of them. It is a strong delusion.



Woe unto modern Pharisees. You preach a false kingdom and shut up the kingdom that is within men. You go not within yourself, nor do you enter the kingdom within; neither suffer ye them that are longing to go in or who have gone in. (paraphr Mat 23:13)
So according to you and daq we live today in the promised kingdom of Christ. With all the sin and evil in the world today, it seems to me the prince of the power of the air is pretty much in charge of the world today.
 

ajdiamond

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Aug 18, 2011
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Minnesota
No. It's not an external kingdom out there in the world. 2000 years ago, people were waiting for a messiah to be King on the earth. Today it's the same as many are waiting for a rapture and a second coming and an external King.

The kingdom of God is within you. You have to enter into that yourself. It takes a bit more than a salvation prayer and a water sprinkling to do. Be still. Go within. Know thyself. Rest. Enter into the Silence. Abide in Christ. Whilst overcoming all the obstacles that hinder along the way. .
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, ajdiamond.

ajdiamond said:
Great words that every religionist today should read. The kingdom is within you and if you are looking anywhere else for it, then you are looking for something else.


Seriously, more great advice. Instead of working out their salvation (in reality, not just a mental belief); instead of the practical actualization and realization of Christ in them (in reality, not just a mental belief); the religionist is looking and waiting for something else: the rapture and what doctrinally is called the second coming. Instead of Christ coming in them, they await Jesus returning outside of them. It is a strong delusion.



Woe unto modern Pharisees. You preach a false kingdom and shut up the kingdom that is within men. You go not within yourself, nor do you enter the kingdom within; neither suffer ye them that are longing to go in or who have gone in. (paraphr Mat 23:13)
Sorry, but the REAL woe is to those who think that Yeshua` was saying that the Kingdom of God is WITHIN MEN! It most certainly IS NOT! The ONLY place in Scripture that says something that SOUNDS like that is Luke 17:21:

Luke 17:21
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV

But, that is NOT what Yeshua` was saying here. First of all, He was talking to the P'rushiym - the Pharisees - who were attempting to discredit Him. So, you're trying to tell me that the Kingdom of God is within THEM?!

Secondly, He was talking to them AS A GROUP!

And, thirdly, He was saying that, while HE was there in their presence, the Kingdom was AMONG them as a group, not within each of them individually. LOOK AT THE CONTEXT:

Luke 17:20-25
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
KJV

Here's the Greek of verse 21:

Lukas 17:21
21 Oude erousin, “Idou hoode!” ee “Ekei!” Idou gar hee basileia tou Theou entos humoon estin.
The Greek New Testament (UBS)

21 Oude = 21 Nor
erousin, = shall-they-say,
“Idou = “Look
hoode!” = here!”
ee = or
“Ekei!” = “There!”
Idou = Look/Behold
gar = for
hee = the
basileia = kingdom
tou = of-the
Theou = God
entos = within/among
humoon = you (plural)

estin. = is.


21 Nor shall-they-say, “Look here!” or “There!” Look/Behold for the kingdom of-the God within/among you (plural) is.

Rearranged into normal English order,...

21 Nor shall they say, "Look, here!" or "There!" For - Look! - God's Kingdom is within/among you (plural).

First, Yeshua` was being interrogated by the P'rushiym DEMANDING to know as to WHEN the Kingdom of God, or God's Kingdom, should come. They were fully expecting a ceremonial display with a lot of pomp and circumstance as the King in His splendor would parade down the streets into Yerushalayim (Jerusalem). However, He answered them with the argument that the Kingdom of God would not come with observation or observing a ceremony. He said that they wouldn't say, "Look! Here it is," or "Look! There it is!" as if to say, "Here it comes!" HE WAS ALREADY THERE, RIGHT THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THEM!! And, when the King is physically present, so is the Kingdom! The Greek word "entos" often means "within," but when the context warrants it, it can also be translated as "among." The number of the word "humoon," translated "you," the objective case of "ye," is plural. In the KJV, "thee" and "thou" are singular. He was not talking to one of them or to each of them; He was talking to them AS A GROUP! Therefore, the word "entos" would more likely refer to the group and therefore be rendered "among" as "within their group."

Second, this is just ONE verse compared to the MANY passages of Scripture that talk about the Messiah coming physically to reign primarily over Isra'el! It's not an immaterial "kingdom within"; it's a LITERAL, PHYSICAL, CONCRETE KINGDOM that will be established, beginning in Isra'el, but very soon expanding to other nations as they are annexed! For example, ...

Zechariah 2:1-13
2:1 Then I looked up — and there before me was a man with a measuring line in his hand! 2 I asked, "Where are you going?"

He answered me, "To measure Jerusalem, to find out how wide and how long it is."

3 Then the angel who was speaking to me left, and another angel came to meet him 4 and said to him: "Run, tell that young man, 'Jerusalem will be a city without walls because of the great number of men and livestock in it. 5 And I myself will be a wall of fire around it,' declares the Lord, 'and I will be its glory within.'

6 "Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north," declares the Lord, "for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven," declares the Lord.

7 "Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!" 8 For this is what the Lord Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you — for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye — 9 I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me.

10 "Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the Lord. 11 "Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you. 12 The Lord will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be still before the Lord, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."
NIV

Zechariah 3:8-10
8 "'Listen, O high priest Joshua and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch. 9 See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes (facets) on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,' says the Lord Almighty, 'and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.
10 "'In that day each of you will invite his neighbor to sit under his vine and fig tree,' declares the Lord Almighty."
NIV

Zechariah 8:1-9:1
8:1 Again the word of the Lord Almighty came to me. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "I am very jealous for Zion; I am burning with jealousy for her."
3 This is what the Lord says: "I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the Lord Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain."
4 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "Once again men and women of ripe old age will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each with cane in hand because of his age. 5 The city streets will be filled with boys and girls playing there."
6 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me?" declares the Lord Almighty.
7 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west. 8 I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God."
9 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "You who now hear these words spoken by the prophets who were there when the foundation was laid for the house of the Lord Almighty, let your hands be strong so that the temple may be built. 10 Before that time there were no wages for man or beast. No one could go about his business safely because of his enemy, for I had turned every man against his neighbor. 11 But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as I did in the past," declares the Lord Almighty.
12 "The seed will grow well, the vine will yield its fruit, the ground will produce its crops, and the heavens will drop their dew. I will give all these things as an inheritance to the remnant of this people. 13 As you have been an object of cursing among the nations, O Judah and Israel, so will I save you, and you will be a blessing. Do not be afraid, but let your hands be strong."
14 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "Just as I had determined to bring disaster upon you and showed no pity when your fathers angered me," says the Lord Almighty, 15 "so now I have determined to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid. 16 These are the things you are to do: Speak the truth to each other, and render true and sound judgment in your courts; 17 do not plot evil against your neighbor, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the Lord.
18 Again the word of the Lord Almighty came to me. 19 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "The fasts of the fourth, fifth, seventh and tenth months will become joyful and glad occasions and happy festivals for Judah. Therefore love truth and peace."
20 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, 21 and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, 'Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.' 22 And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him."
23 This is what the Lord Almighty says: "In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'"
NIV

Zechariah 9:8-10:12
8 But I will defend my house
against marauding forces.
Never again will an oppressor overrun my people,
for now I am keeping watch.

9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion!
Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem!
See, your king comes to you,
righteous and having salvation,
gentle and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
10 I will take away the chariots from Ephraim
and the war-horses from Jerusalem,
and the battle bow will be broken.
He will proclaim peace to the nations.
His rule will extend from sea to sea
and from the River to the ends of the earth.
11 As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you,
I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.
12 Return to your fortress, O prisoners of hope;
even now I announce that I will restore twice as much to you.
13 I will bend Judah as I bend my bow
and fill it with Ephraim.
I will rouse your sons, O Zion,
against your sons, O Greece,
and make you like a warrior's sword.

14 Then the Lord will appear over them;
his arrow will flash like lightning.
The Sovereign Lord will sound the trumpet;
he will march in the storms of the south,
15 and the Lord Almighty will shield them.
They will destroy
and overcome with slingstones.
They will drink and roar as with wine;
they will be full like a bowl
used for sprinkling the corners of the altar.
16 The Lord their God will save them on that day
as the flock of his people.
They will sparkle in his land
like jewels in a crown.
17 How attractive and beautiful they will be!
Grain will make the young men thrive,
and new wine the young women.

10 Ask the Lord for rain in the springtime;
it is the Lord who makes the storm clouds.
He gives showers of rain to men,
and plants of the field to everyone.
2 The idols speak deceit,
diviners see visions that lie;
they tell dreams that are false,
they give comfort in vain.
Therefore the people wander like sheep
oppressed for lack of a shepherd.

3 "My anger burns against the shepherds,
and I will punish the leaders;
for the Lord Almighty will care
for his flock, the house of Judah,
and make them like a proud horse in battle.
4 From Judah will come the cornerstone,
from him the tent peg,
from him the battle bow,
from him every ruler.
5 Together they will be like mighty men
trampling the muddy streets in battle.
Because the Lord is with them,
they will fight and overthrow the horsemen.

6 "I will strengthen the house of Judah
and save the house of Joseph.
I will restore them
because I have compassion on them.
They will be as though
I had not rejected them,
for I am the Lord their God
and I will answer them.
7 The Ephraimites will become like mighty men,
and their hearts will be glad as with wine.
Their children will see it and be joyful;
their hearts will rejoice in the Lord.
8 I will signal (whistle) for them
and gather them in.
Surely I will redeem them;
they will be as numerous as before.
9 Though I scatter them among the peoples,
yet in distant lands they will remember me.
They and their children will survive,
and they will return.
10 I will bring them back from Egypt
and gather them from Assyria.
I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon,
and there will not be room enough for them.
11 They will pass through the sea of trouble;
the surging sea will be subdued
and all the depths of the Nile will dry up.
Assyria's pride will be brought down
and Egypt's scepter will pass away.
12 I will strengthen them in the Lord and in his name they will walk,"
declares the Lord.
NIV

And, that's just from ONE BOOK, and there's more yet from this book and MUCH more in other books! This is not just a bunch of stuff that needs to be "allegorized"; There's nowhere in the book where we readers are told that this is allegorical!!! And, yes, there is that ONE passage that has already been fulfilled (9:9), but the rest has NOT been fulfilled, yet, and even that passage may have to be done again when He comes the second time so that it fits with the rest of what will be fulfilled!

Yeshua` TRIED to offer Isra'el God's Kingdom when He came the first time, but the elders of Y'hudah rejected Him at that time. They were subservient to Rome then and didn't want to strain their relationship with Rome. They couldn't trust God or His Messiah because they were a small nation and, like Peter, they looked down at the water and could no longer walk upon it! "Facing reality" and "being practical" took over and faith went out the door!

Yeshua` said He would try again in the future with a kind of people who could produce its fruit...


Matthew 21:1-46
1 As they were approaching Yerushalayim, they came to Beit-Pagei on the Mount of Olives. Yeshua sent two talmidim 2 with these instructions: “Go into the village ahead of you, and you will immediately find a donkey tethered there with its colt. Untie them and bring them to me. 3 If anyone says anything to you, tell him, ‘The Lord needs them’; and he will let them go at once.” 4 This happened in order to fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet,

5 “Say to the daughter of Tziyon,
‘Look! Your King is coming to you,
riding humbly on a donkey,
and on a colt, the offspring of a beast of burden!’ (Zech. 9:9)

6 So the talmidim went and did as Yeshua had directed them. 7 They brought the donkey and the colt and put their robes on them, and Yeshua sat on them. 8 Crowds of people carpeted the road with their clothing, while others cut branches from trees and spread them on the road. 9 The crowds ahead of him and behind shouted,

“Please! Deliver us!”
to the Son of David;
“Blessed is he who comes in the name of Adonai!”
“You in the highest heaven! Please! Deliver us!” (Psalm 118:25-26)

10 When he entered Yerushalayim, the whole city was stirred. “Who is this?” they asked. 11 And the crowds answered, “This is Yeshua, the prophet from Natzeret in the Galil.”

12 Yeshua entered the Temple grounds and drove out those who were doing business there, both the merchants and their customers. He upset the desks of the money-changers and knocked over the benches of those who were selling pigeons. 13 He said to them, “It has been written, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer.’ But you are making it into a den of robbers!”

14 Blind and lame people came up to him in the Temple, and he healed them. 15 But when the head cohanim and Torah-teachers saw the wonderful things he was doing, and the children crying out in the Temple, “Please deliver us!” to the Son of David, they were furious. 16 They said to him, “Do you hear what they’re saying?” Yeshua replied, “Of course! Haven’t you ever read,

‘From the mouths of children and infantsyou have prepared praise for yourself’?”

17 With that, he left them and went outside the city to Beit-Anyah, where he spent the night.

18 The next morning, on his way back to the city, he felt hungry. 19 Spotting a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. So he said to it, “May you never again bear fruit!” and immediately the fig tree dried up. 20 The talmidim saw this and were amazed. “How did the fig tree dry up so quickly?” they asked. 21 Yeshua answered them, “Yes! I tell you, if you have trust and don’t doubt, you will not only do what was done to this fig tree; but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Go and throw yourself into the sea!’ it will be done. 22 In other words, you will receive everything you ask for in prayer, no matter what it is, provided you have trust.”

23 He went into the Temple area; and as he was teaching, the head cohanim and the elders of the people approached him and demanded, “What s’mikhah do you have that authorizes you to do these things? And who gave you this s’mikhah?” 24 Yeshua answered, “I too will ask you a question. If you answer it, then I will tell you by what s’mikhah I do these things. 25 The immersion of Yochanan — where did it come from? From Heaven or from a human source?” They discussed it among themselves: “If we say, ‘From Heaven,’ he will say, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From a human source,’ we are afraid of the people, for they all regard Yochanan as a prophet.” 27 So they answered Yeshua, “We don’t know.” And he replied, “Then I won’t tell you by what s’mikhah I do these things.
28 “But give me your opinion: a man had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’ 29 He answered, ‘I don’t want to’; but later he changed his mind and went. 30 The father went to his other son and said the same thing. This one answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he didn’t go. 31 Which of the two did what his father wanted?” “The first,” they replied. “That’s right!” Yeshua said to them. “I tell you that the tax-collectors and prostitutes are going into the Kingdom of God ahead of you! 32 For Yochanan came to you showing the path to righteousness, and you wouldn’t trust him. The tax-collectors and prostitutes trusted him; but you, even after you saw this, didn’t change your minds later and trust him.
33 “Now listen to another parable. There was a farmer who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a tower; then he rented it to tenants and left. 34 When harvest-time came, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his share of the crop. 35 But the tenants seized his servants — this one they beat up, that one they killed, another they stoned. 36 So he sent some other servants, more than the first group, and they did the same to them. 37 Finally, he sent them his son, saying, ‘My son they will respect.’ 38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance!’ 39 So they grabbed him, threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40 Now when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41 They answered him, “He will viciously destroy those vicious men and rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the crop when it’s due.” 42 Yeshua said to them, “Haven’t you ever read in the Tanakh,

‘The very rock which the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone!
This has come from Adonai,
and in our eyes it is amazing’? (Psalm 118:22)

43 Therefore, I tell you that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to the kind of people that will produce its fruit!” (Some manuscripts include verse 44: Whoever falls on this stone will be broken in pieces; but if it falls on him, he will be crushed to powder!")
45 As the head cohanim and the P’rushim listened to his stories, they saw that he was speaking about them. 46 But when they set about to arrest him, they were afraid of the crowds; because the crowds considered him a prophet.
CJB


So, from the Scriptures, it's a fable to think that God's Kingdom is "within men!'
 

ajdiamond

New Member
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If you look at the parable of the sower (Luke 8)--the parable you are instructed to know so that you can know the other parables(Mark 4:13)--you can see that in Jesus' interpretation of the parable (Luke 8:11-15) he is not speaking about external things, he is speaking about internal things in the heart of man. Is this parable about the kingdom of God? Yes (Luke 8:10, Mark 4:11). Why is he teaching about things in the heart of man in a parable about the kingdom of God? Because the kingdom of God is within you.

Look at the other kingdom parables. The kingdom of God is likened to a:

-treasure hidden buried in a field that needs to be found. (Matt 13:44)
-one pearl of great price that need be found. (Matt 13:45-46)
-leaven hidden within meal (Luke 13:20-21)
-a seed cast into the earth (Mark 4:26-29)
-a mustard seed sowed in a man's field (Mark 4:30–32)

The kingdom of God is something hidden and/or buried within something else that one may search for and find. The kingdom is buried and dormant within man. It is covered over by detritus: cycles of reactive emotion and mentation, 5-sense sensuousness, lies, false beliefs, unrighteousness, etc. A man need sell all this detritus for the Treasure, that True Light which lighteth every man that comes into the world, that he may partake of the divine nature within and know the Truth.

Note that the kingdom is likened unto one individual finding a treasure hidden in a field, one merchant finding the pearl of great price and one woman having leaven hidden within meal. It is not some external world event for the masses. No; one by one, men see the man of sin within, learn of the mystery of the kingdom, sell all the detritus and enter in. Then, it is no longer the carnal mind and illusory false self running the show for them, as that no longer lives; for it is then Christ who now lives in them. And few there be that find it and know this.

If you look at these parables with a "LITERAL, PHYSICAL, CONCRETE KINGDOM" in mind, they show you nothing and make no sense. But, if you allow for the possibility that the Kingdom of God is within you, as Jesus said, you can see the simplicity of how it is something hidden buried within something else. You!
 

daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
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Olam Haba
There will not be any convincing him ajdiamond. We have already had this conversation no less than four times now wherein he has been proven to be incorrect every time. Perhaps that is the reason he cannot ignore me even though he has now promised to do so twice; as well as the time he said he was turning me over to his god and if need be his god would turn me over to "HaSatan" in one thread. You see Retrobyter has proclaimed that he is trying to finish writing his book so there is clearly an alterior motive for such a one to disprove everyone else who disagrees with his literal-physical kingdom of flesh theology. :)

Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:15 AM - "Christ will come again" Post#102

daq, on 08 August 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

This is completely false and you already know it so why do you keep repeating the same falsehoods?
The Kingdom of God does not come with ocular-visual-observational evidence:


daq, on 13 Feb 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:
daq said:
The Kingdom of God does not come by observation. This kind of "observation" is "visual-ocular evidence" meaning "to be seen with the eyes of the flesh" and is purely physical in nature. This he states because the Kingdom of God is within us:

Luke 17:20-21 KJV
20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: [GSN#3907 parateresis]
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


Original Strong's Ref. #3907
Romanized parateresis
Pronounced par-at-ay'-ray-sis
from GSN3906; inspection, i.e. ocular evidence:
KJV--obervation
.

Yes Yeshua speaks in plural, and yes he speaks to the Pharisees, and yes the Kingdom of God is potentially inside of all men:


daq, on 13 Feb 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:
daq said:
In addition, (Retrobyter) of course Yeshua speaks to them in plural yet he speaks to each in his own appointed times even though he speaks to them all at the same time. The word employed here ("entos") translated "within" comes from GSN#1722 "en" which most definitely means "IN".

Luke 17:21 TUA
21. oude erousin, "Idou hode!" e"{*} Ekei!" Idou gar he basileia tou Theou entos humonestin."^


Original Strong's Ref. #1787
Romanized entos
Pronounced en-tos'
from GSN1722; inside (adverb or noun):
KJV--within.

BDB -- Strong's Greek Definition for #1787
1787 // entov // entos // en-tos' //
from 1722 ; prep
AV - within 2; 2
1) within, inside
1a) within you i.e. in the midst of you
1b) within you i.e. your soul
http://www.apostolic...s/luke_17.shtml
http://www.apostolic...greek&stnm=1787

The modern definition from BDB makes your case more flimsy because the soul is used to describe "entos" being "within" the man.
In addition when you change the meaning of "entos" you alter the implications of "mesos" ("midst") from other passages:


daq, on 21 Feb 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:
daq said:
Ah so it is perfectly good and fair for you to judge others but not so fair when your judgment is proven false? And what will you do when you are actually judged with your own measure which you have meted out? If you do not like to be judged then why do you judge?

Also it does not matter to whom the Master speaks directly in the passage, (i.e. the Pharisees) because the Gospel accounts are written by apostles and disciples to the entire congregation-ekklesia and that includes the account from Luke irrespective of to whom it is addressed, ("Theophilus"). In addition you are attempting to force the Luke passage to say something that it does not say so as to enforce your own paradigm of a physical fleshly kingdom of God upon the physical world-wide planet earth, ruling a physical empire of fleshly kingdoms, over what I can only imagine you must think of as the "lesser-brethren millennial sheeples", (was that not already attempted in the middle of the last century?). The Luke passage clearly disputes what you profess because Yeshua tells them that the kingdom of God does not come with observation and neither shall they say, "See here! or, see there!", "Look here! or, look there!" As stated time and again already in this thread: "For the kingdom of God is inside you", (GSN#1787 entos). If you desire to prove your point that the kingdom of God is all around us and in our midst then you have an alternative passage which you have either not recognized, neglected, or ignored in making your case. However, it does not read "entos" (inside) but rather "mesos" (midst).

AGAIN:

Luke 17:20-21 KJV
20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within [GSN#1787 entos] you.


Original Strong's Ref. #1787
Romanized entos
Pronounced en-tos'
from GSN1722; inside (adverb or noun):
KJV--within.

Matthew 18:19-20 KJV
19. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst [GSN#3319 mesos] of them.


Original Strong's Ref. #3319
Romanized mesos
Pronounced mes'-os
from GSN3326; middle (as an adjective or [neuter] noun):
KJV--among, X before them, between, + forth, mid[-day, -night], midst, way.

Your argument requires changing the definitions of words to suit your paradigm. No thanks ...
:)
Luke 17:20-21 KJV
20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within [GSN#1787 entos] you.


Matthew 18:19-20 KJV
19. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst [GSN#3319 mesos] of them.

You have stolen the meaning of "mesos" and applied it to "entos" so as to have your pound of flesh kingdom.
However if Yeshua is seated at the right hand of God then Matthew 18:20 refers to the Mercy Seat and Cherubim brethren:
Therefore your "fowls of the air" simply do not fly in the heavenly kingdom of the Word of Elohim . . . :lol:

Matthew 24:23-26 KJV
23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if
it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25.
Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Mark 13:23 KJV
21. And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22. For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23. But take ye heed:
behold, I have foretold you all things.


You will not be seeing Yeshua return in a physical form with your natural eyes of the natural flesh.
If you do, and you believe it, you will have disregarded the Word of God, (and maybe for the last time).
Even Paul saw no man but rather a brilliant white Light which temporarily blinded him.[End quote.

Christ will come again - Page 4
Desolating Abomination - Post#4-13
Desolating Abomination - Post#51
So….The New Earth and Heaven - Post#6-25

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.


You mix much too much together from unrelated contexts and claim that they go together! PLEASE, don't cook for me! I don't want a pickles and ice cream hot-fudge steak with teriyaki sauce and sauerkraut on top!!

You are LEADING PEOPLE ASTRAY! When Yeshua` returns IN HIS RESURRECTED, PHYSICAL BODY to establish His Kingdom on this earth AS PROMISED IN ALL THE PROPHECIES OF THE TANAKH, you're going to have a LOT of back-peddling to do! I hope you like to eat crow!

There's too much to correct and I don't have the desire to attempt the monumental task that would have to be performed; so, it may LOOK like you've won, but the Ruach haQodesh is going to have to correct you. I cannot, and you wouldn't listen to me anyway. I turn you over to the Spirit for His correction, and if He feels you won't listen to Him either, then He may turn you over to haSatan for whatever needs to be done.

I wash my hands of you.
For someone who says "PLEASE, don't cook for me!" he sure seems to have a difficult time staying away from my threads. Likewise one would think that Enoch would speak up and say something when his comrade in arms has the audacity to suggest that he has the Holy Spirit while others who disagree with him obviously do not. Yet neither a peep from Enoch when it comes to his comrades in arms because this genos of peoples think that they do God a service when they take up their swords to silence any opposition to their flesh mentality gospel.
 

daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
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Olam Haba
daq said:
Christ will come again - Page 4
Desolating Abomination - Post#4-13
Desolating Abomination - Post#51
So….The New Earth and Heaven - Post#6-25

Shalom, daq.


You mix much too much together from unrelated contexts and claim that they go together! PLEASE, don't cook for me! I don't want a pickles and ice cream hot-fudge steak with teriyaki sauce and sauerkraut on top!!

You are LEADING PEOPLE ASTRAY! When Yeshua` returns IN HIS RESURRECTED, PHYSICAL BODY to establish His Kingdom on this earth AS PROMISED IN ALL THE PROPHECIES OF THE TANAKH, you're going to have a LOT of back-peddling to do! I hope you like to eat crow!

There's too much to correct and I don't have the desire to attempt the monumental task that would have to be performed; so, it may LOOK like you've won, but the Ruach haQodesh is going to have to correct you. I cannot, and you wouldn't listen to me anyway. I turn you over to the Spirit for His correction, and if He feels you won't listen to Him either, then He may turn you over to haSatan for whatever needs to be done.

I wash my hands of you.
For someone who says "PLEASE, don't cook for me!" he sure seems to have a difficult time staying away from my threads. Likewise one would think that Enoch would speak up and say something when his comrade in arms has the audacity to suggest that he has the Holy Spirit while others who disagree with him obviously do not. Yet neither a peep from Enoch when it comes to his comrades in arms because this genos of peoples think that they do God a service when they take up their swords to silence any opposition to their flesh mentality gospel.
ENOCH2010 said:
Roy don't need me defending him, he has the Word of God to do that.
Somehow the entire point slipped right on passed you. The point is not that he needs you or anyone else to defend him but that you stand by and approve while he verbally slices to pieces both yours and his "perceived" enemies. Yet when it comes to those who refuse to die off then you go about attempting to label them as gnostics, heretics, blasphemers, and whatever else will stick and do the dirty trick, even to the point of calling your "perceived" enemies the ones who are "the accusers" simply for standing firm in defending what they believe. In this you reveal yourself to be a respecter of the persons of men because you only bless those who bless you. The Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, Publicans, Republicans, and Democrats all did and do the same: "Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Desolating Abomination of the heart). If you love only those who love you then what reward have you? You already have the rewards of your kingdom. :)

ENOCH2010 said:
You can't use that scripture to accuse a group of Christians, for they have something the scribes and pharisees didn't have.
And you can accuse me of accusing Christians when I quote the Testimony of Yeshua?
Is it my fault your theology is fraught with fault? Get the theology right and the eschatology will be right. :)

daq said:
You either believe Yeshua or you do not.
And if you believe Yeshua then you will also understand Paul:

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 KJV
12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


And if you do not believe Yeshua and conform your doctrine to his Doctrine then you are not his disciple:

John 8:27-32 KJV
30. As he spake these words,
many believed on him.
31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


Romans 8:4-10 KJV
4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


The only way to have Messiah inside is to consume all of his Word-Food.
The Testimony of Yeshua is not just the Spirit of Prophecy but Spirit Holy.
If you have not the Testimony of Yeshua then you have not Spirit Holy and are none of his.

John 7:37-39 YLT
37. And in the last, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, 'If any one doth thirst, let him come unto me and drink;
38. he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39. and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.


Not yet was the Spirit Holy because Yeshua was not yet lifted up-exalted, (ruwm-hupsoo) at Golgotha.
The Spirit Holy of the Testimony of Yeshua is completed at Moriah Olivet when he says: "Tetelestai!" :)
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, ajdiamond.

ajdiamond said:
If you look at the parable of the sower (Luke 8)--the parable you are instructed to know so that you can know the other parables(Mark 4:13)--you can see that in Jesus' interpretation of the parable (Luke 8:11-15) he is not speaking about external things, he is speaking about internal things in the heart of man. Is this parable about the kingdom of God? Yes (Luke 8:10, Mark 4:11). Why is he teaching about things in the heart of man in a parable about the kingdom of God? Because the kingdom of God is within you.

Look at the other kingdom parables. The kingdom of God is likened to a:

-treasure hidden buried in a field that needs to be found. (Matt 13:44)
-one pearl of great price that need be found. (Matt 13:45-46)
-leaven hidden within meal (Luke 13:20-21)
-a seed cast into the earth (Mark 4:26-29)
-a mustard seed sowed in a man's field (Mark 4:30–32)

The kingdom of God is something hidden and/or buried within something else that one may search for and find. The kingdom is buried and dormant within man. It is covered over by detritus: cycles of reactive emotion and mentation, 5-sense sensuousness, lies, false beliefs, unrighteousness, etc. A man need sell all this detritus for the Treasure, that True Light which lighteth every man that comes into the world, that he may partake of the divine nature within and know the Truth.

Note that the kingdom is likened unto one individual finding a treasure hidden in a field, one merchant finding the pearl of great price and one woman having leaven hidden within meal. It is not some external world event for the masses. No; one by one, men see the man of sin within, learn of the mystery of the kingdom, sell all the detritus and enter in. Then, it is no longer the carnal mind and illusory false self running the show for them, as that no longer lives; for it is then Christ who now lives in them. And few there be that find it and know this.

If you look at these parables with a "LITERAL, PHYSICAL, CONCRETE KINGDOM" in mind, they show you nothing and make no sense. But, if you allow for the possibility that the Kingdom of God is within you, as Jesus said, you can see the simplicity of how it is something hidden buried within something else. You!
That's only because you fail to recognize it as a FUTURE, literal, physical, concrete Kingdom! These parables are not about the "now"; they are about the KINGDOM which won't exist until Yeshua` HaMashiach returns to be its KING! The ONLY parable in Matthew 13, Mark 4, and Luke 13 that's about the "now" is the parable of the sower, and even THAT is about the MESSAGE of the Kingdom that we are to herald, not the Kingdom itself. It's a MAJOR error and the EPITOME of narcissism to think that the parables of Matthew 13, Mark 4, and Luke 13 are about the present!

The Sower is a parable about the spreading of the message about God's Kingdom, the Kingdom from the Sky, not just any ol' message from the Scriptures, and certainly not about the message of God's justification of an individual that some call "salvation."

The Tares and Wheat is a parable about the infiltration of the children of the Wicked One among the children of the Kingdom during the whole of the future 1,000-year period and how they won't be "weeded out" until the "harvest," the Great White Throne Judgment.

The Kernel of Mustard Seed is a parable about the GROWTH of the Kingdom during that 1,000-year period.

The Leaven is a parable about the INFLUENCE the Kingdom will have on the world and its economy during the 1,000-year period.

The Buried Treasure is about the value one will place upon the Kingdom during that 1,000-year period.

The Merchant Man (not the Pearl) is about the value the King will place on His investments during that 1,000-year period.

The Seining Net is about the "harvest" time itself at the end of the 1,000-year period.

The Head of the Family is about the discovery of "treasures," new and old, in the house's storage "closet." This is about the Torah-teacher who has also learned to be a STUDENT of God's Word regarding the Kingdom. Not only does he have his old training (which modern-day Christians SELDOM have) but he is also learning the new, that is, the information that is new to his training that came from both the teachings of the Messiah Himself and the teachings about the Messiah since His death, resurrection, and ascension (which accounts for most if not all of the training that modern-day Christians have). THIS is the parable that practically DEMANDS that we learn from our Hebrew roots.
 

ENOCH2010

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daq I have no enemies on this board, you are not my enemy, as far as I know I have no enemies anywhere. I do hope and pray you stop misleading people with the gnostic teachings, the Bible is not an allegorical book. The Bible is the literal Word of God, you should treat it with the respect it deserves.
 

veteran

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daq said:
Vetern said:
"One must stay with the subject context Paul gave within 2 Thess.2 to know what kind of temple he was talking about. And it certainly is not the spiritual temple idea, for no false one can preside in nor corrupt the True Spiritual Temple of Christ Jesus, which is why... the True Spiritual Temple was not 'made with hands'. It was so no man could corrupt it.

Yet in 2 Thess.2 we see emphatically a false one coming to put himself in place of God sitting in a temple, which is corruption, but not of the True Spiritual Temple, but of a physical temple, pointing to a rebuilt physical temple in Jerusalem for the last days."
Yeshua disagrees with you concerning what carnal man does to the temple of God.
In fact he speaks the following warning ONLY to those who would be his disciples:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


Do you believe the above passage applies to yourself or do you not believe it?
The unclean spirit cast out is the prince of the power of the air that we formerly served.
The same is that "spirit of the world" which went out from you when you first believed.
The same is returning with all your old sins upon his head because he is your scapegoat.
Only if he was never cast out of you to begin with do you need not worry about his return.


Mark 13:37 KJV
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Do you believe the Luke 11:24-26 passage applies to yourself or do you not believe it?
The unclean spirit cast out is the prince of the power of the air that we formerly served.
The same is that "spirit of the world" which went out from you when you first believed.
The same is returning with all your old sins upon his head because he is your scapegoat.
Only if he was never cast out of you to begin with do you need not worry about his return.


Mark 13:37 KJV
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. :)



In reality, it is you... that disagrees with our Lord Jesus and what His Apostles wrote about the matter.

In Matthew 24 with what Jesus warned about the placing of the abomination of desolation from the Book of Daniel, that event INVOLVES a physical temple specifically in Jerusalem. It is NOT about the spiritual temple idea of Ephesians 2.

Because you don't WANT to receive that Truth of Apostle Paul speaking of a physical temple in Jerusalem with the 2 Thess.2:3-4 events, you even try to drum up a way to make the Greek NT word 'naos' to never mean a physical temple when other NT Scripture specifically... uses 'naos' for a literal physical temple in Jerusalem!

I simply don't understand WHY you would be against receiving Paul's warning about that future coming false one to sit in a physical temple in Jerusalem, playing God? To not want to... heed that warning by Paul, and even our Lord Jesus, for He gave it too in Matt.24:23-26, even with the idea of those who say Christ has come and is in the "secret chambers" and to not believe it; refusing that warning would mean what for you?? How would that Luke 11 Scripture you quoted to me involve what you yourself do by refusing to heed Christ's and Paul's warning about the coming false messiah to Jerusalem?
 

daq

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ENOCH2010 said:
daq I have no enemies on this board, you are not my enemy, as far as I know I have no enemies anywhere. I do hope and pray you stop misleading people with the gnostic teachings, the Bible is not an allegorical book. The Bible is the literal Word of God, you should treat it with the respect it deserves.

Then why do you continue to label me a gnostic when you know among your peers that gnostic is a derogatory and anathema term? Well I suppose at least you are true to your own form of murderous behavior flowing from the heart. However, we already had this discussion wherein I informed you of Marcion the gnostic heretic and what he did. And what he did is the same thing that you and your peers are doing, which is to cut out anything from the Word that you do not approve by saying that it does not apply to yourselves:


daq said:
daq are you a gnostic
Always has to be personal eh? Do you understand that the Gnostic have a belief that Hashem of the Old Covenant is what they call the Demiurge? According to them, (mainly from the Apocryphon of John which is blasphemy) they say that the God of the Old Testament did in fact create all physical things but that he was an angry and self absorbed vengeful god of the flesh and all things physical. It is not that they believe he is not real but that they believe he is the enemy. The same Gnostic teachers profess primarily the "Canon of Marcion" (Google it) which consisted only of the Gospel of Luke and the Epistles of Paul, (with all of the Old Covenant quotes clipped out of the Pauline Epistles of course).

Who then is more like the Gnostic heresy out of those assembled here in this forum? Should it be myself who accepts both Testaments of Scripture as the holy Word or is it those who reject most of what is written when they say that Torah is "abolished" and the Words of the Master before the Cross were not written to them? Some here in the theology boards even confess that the Epistle to the Hebrews should not be studied in depth unless one is a Jew because it was written to the Jews to bring them out of the Old Covenant, (another heresy) and James was only addressed to the Twelve Tribes so it likewise is not written to them. It is not myself who is the Gnostic here, (nice try at another label though). If you ask this question in all seriousness then do some serious research into what a true Gnostic belief system encompasses and you might then begin to see the many similarities which abound in many of the postings and teachings of other renowned men of a name who are considered upright citizens of the kingdom right here in these and many other Christian forum boards. I accept and live all of the Scripture according to the Testimony and interpretations of the Master Yeshua, walking according to the Spirit of Torah and the Word as even Paulos preaches, every word which proceeds from the mouth of God to the best of my God given abilities, (we can do all things through Messiah who strengthens us). I do not reject anything from the Lamb that is set before me as spiritual food to be eaten. :)

Your teachings come straight from the playbook of Marcion the Gnostic heretic whether you know it or not. :)


veteran said:
In reality, it is you... that disagrees with our Lord Jesus and what His Apostles wrote about the matter.

In Matthew 24 with what Jesus warned about the placing of the abomination of desolation from the Book of Daniel, that event INVOLVES a physical temple specifically in Jerusalem. It is NOT about the spiritual temple idea of Ephesians 2.

Because you don't WANT to receive that Truth of Apostle Paul speaking of a physical temple in Jerusalem with the 2 Thess.2:3-4 events, you even try to drum up a way to make the Greek NT word 'naos' to never mean a physical temple when other NT Scripture specifically... uses 'naos' for a literal physical temple in Jerusalem!

I simply don't understand WHY you would be against receiving Paul's warning about that future coming false one to sit in a physical temple in Jerusalem, playing God? To not want to... heed that warning by Paul, and even our Lord Jesus, for He gave it too in Matt.24:23-26, even with the idea of those who say Christ has come and is in the "secret chambers" and to not believe it; refusing that warning would mean what for you?? How would that Luke 11 Scripture you quoted to me involve what you yourself do by refusing to heed Christ's and Paul's warning about the coming false messiah to Jerusalem?
In reality I believe all the statements of Master Yeshua rather than cherry picking what suits any mindset-paradigm.
To deny these things as fulfilled in Messiah is to essentially say that he has not come in the flesh and the work is not finished.

Matthew 24:19
19. And woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!

Luke 23:27-29
27. And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
28. But Yeshua turning unto them said, Daughters of Yerushalaim, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29. For, behold, the days are come, in the which they say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck!


Now Yudas that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. And forthwith came he forward and drew near unto Yeshua to kiss him. But Yeshua says unto him; Yudas, do you betray the Son of man with a kiss? And the son of perdition, Iouda Simonos Iskariotes, removed not his shoes; but stood in the presence of the holy place, in the 'adamat-qodesh holy ground which is in the presence of haSar tsaba' YHWH, and the desolating abomination betrayed the Son of man with a kiss, saying, Hail Rabbi Master! and kissed him . . .
 

ENOCH2010

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that's the first time I have been told that judas was responsible for the abomination of desolations
 

daq

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ENOCH2010 said:
that's the first time I have been told that judas was responsible for the abomination of desolations
John 17:12 Transliterated Unaccented Bible
12. Hote emen met auton {*} ego eteroun autous en to onomati sou ho dedokas moi, kai efulaxa, kai oudeis ex auton apoleto ei-me ho huios tes apoleias, hina he grafe plerothe.

John 17:12 KJV
12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Transliterated Unaccented Bible
3. me-tis humas exapatese kata medena tropon. Hoti ean-me elthe he apostasia proton kai apokalufthe ho anthropos tes anomias,{*} ho huios tes apoleias,

2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV
3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

John 17:12 ~ "ho huios tes apoleias" ~ "the son of perdition"
2Thess. 2:3 ~ "ho huios tes apoleias" ~ "the son of perdition"

Every man has his own scapegoat-twin Ioudas Simonos Iskariotes, (let the one seeing him again understand).
 

ENOCH2010

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according to you, everyone is the son of perdition, was the kiss of judas allegorical, was the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus allegorical also?
 

daq

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ENOCH2010 said:
according to you, everyone is the son of perdition, was the kiss of judas allegorical, was the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus allegorical also?
Perhaps that is what happens when you do not believe the Master when he clearly states that the kingdom of God is within you. Judas was literal, (because Messiah had no sins of his own to be sent away on the head of a sa`iyr-goat to `Aza'zel). All those things were fulfilled literally when Messiah physically walked the earth until the crucifixion: are you now trying to suggest I do not believe such things? However, now that those things were fulfilled literally it is the Spirit Testimony of Yeshua which is literal, (which he paid for with his own real and physical blood poured out for us in the confirmation of the Covenant to the many).

Your "old man", which is the "spirit of the world", which is the same "prince of the power of the air" whom you formerly served, ("Behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground" ~ Daniel 8:5) is returning to his former "house" which is you, (if he has not already done so because you were watching for all of the wrong signs according to what you see with the eyes of the flesh) and that is only if he was ever cast out of you to begin with as I told you from the Scripture. Do not listen to those who tell you that you are already "saved" because they make you into a twofold son of hell more than they themselves have become. The teachings of the modern shepherds who preach according to the eyes and mind of the physical and the flesh, seeing all things according to the belly of the flesh by which they walk, breed self righteous modern Pharisees who need no physician and can do no wrong in their own eyes because they claim a righteousness which they do not possess: CONCERNING MAN THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NONE, NOT ONE. :)
 

ENOCH2010

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so according to daq the things written about in the Bible are all literal until the crucifixion of the Lord, then the rest of the Bible is to be taken as allegorical ?