Tending the Garden

[Foreigner]

Excellent post, Rach.

Personal responsibility is the key. Providing 'awareness' is only helpful if what you are saying is factual.
In many cases those 'facts' have been anything plus.

Handing governments hundreds of billions MORE of our money with zero accountability, no concrete plan or timeline, and other major countries unwilling to participate makes the effort worthless.

The fear-mongoring and brutal criticisms of those who will not troop along lock-step is hurting rather than helping.

Christians focused on the environment ensure that these efforts aren't more time-consuming and encompassing than their efforts to win souls to Christ.

The end of this world is coming regardless of the efforts to save the environment. Prophecy says so in detail.

Focus should be on the salvation of as many people as possible while there is still time.

When we stand before God I think He will be more concerned about what you have done to ensure as many people as possible have come to know Him.

 

[Rach1370]

Rach - whackjobs are apart of every moment. I try not to judge churches by their pewsitters or their whackjobs. My approach to the environmental movement is no different.

You are right, of course, there are the over the top weirdo's in every organisation/cause. And I think they sour things because they scream their idea's the loudest. My concern with climate change is that many, many people are listening to these screams and then turn around and try to force these over the top changes and ideas on everyone. Within climate change, there are just as many scientists yelling 'fraud' as there are 'disaster'. And the actual weather itself seems to be putting it's two cents in as well. It's hard to take someone seriously when they are shouting 'global warming' when they're in the middle of the worst snow storm in a hundred years! I think that's why they changed the term to 'climate change'.
Everything cycles...it just does. Here in Australia we've just been through a ten year drought. People were yelling 'el nino' or whatever, but if you listened to facts, it was the worst drought in 100 years....meaning that my grandparents went through one just as bad. That's not all that long ago, and I'm sure that my grandparents could tell stories of similar events in their grandparents days. I think we must strive to remember that "there is nothing new under the sun". God, after all, is ultimately in charge...He keeps the sun coming up everyday and the rain to fall....and it will keep going until He says stop.

Excellent post, Rach.

Personal responsibility is the key. Providing 'awareness' is only helpful if what you are saying is factual.
In many cases those 'facts' have been anything plus.

Handing governments hundreds of billions MORE of our money with zero accountability, no concrete plan or timeline, and other major countries unwilling to participate makes the effort worthless.

The fear-mongoring and brutal criticisms of those who will not troop along lock-step is hurting rather than helping.

Christians focused on the environment ensure that these efforts aren't more time-consuming and encompassing than their efforts to win souls to Christ.

The end of this world is coming regardless of the efforts to save the environment. Prophecy says so in detail.

Focus should be on the salvation of as many people as possible while there is still time.

When we stand before God I think He will be more concerned about what you have done to ensure as many people as possible have come to know Him.

Thanks Foreigner! As I said, I'm not against being responsible for our planet, I'm just against the 'wackjobs' as Aspen calls them! My husband and his family are fairly viciously against the whole climate change movement...they think it's just as you say....panic monger's out to raise a buck....
Here in Australia most of the bigger names and louder yellers and just plain hypocritical about the whole thing.
People must come first, and as the bible says, feeding their souls are even more important than feeding their bodies. I wonder why we can't do both?

 

[Foreigner]

I agree with you Rach.

But there are Christians on this very board that speak out against voicing the Gospel to those who do not know God, instead saying that they will be able to observe your life from a distance and take example from that, only speaking to them if THEY approach YOU.

Yet, when it comes to the environment, SUDDENLY evangelism is VITAL and expectations must be voiced.

To me, those priorities are confused.

 

[Rach1370]

I agree with you Rach.

But there are Christians on this very board that speak out against voicing the Gospel to those who do not know God, instead saying that they will be able to observe your life from a distance and take example from that, only speaking to them if THEY approach YOU.

Yet, when it comes to the environment, SUDDENLY evangelism is VITAL and expectations must be voiced.

To me, those priorities are confused.

I wonder if it would be helpful to start a thread about how we can make those steps forward to others, and not just sit back, hoping they notice. I agree we need to get out there, but many of us find it very difficult to do so, for varying different reasons. I myself am pretty shy, and find it hard to talk to people about the weather, let alone Jesus! It's becoming a little easier as time passes and I think more of Jesus than I do people, but still, I wonder if others could have stories and tips to make it easier??

 

[aspen]

to me, the care of the environment involves everyone and the affects of not doing so affects everyone. Christians have been quick to point out the homosexual rights are a minority issue and therefore should not be pushed on the majority of Americans - the care of the environment is a majority issue.

 

[Foreigner]

But that doesn't mean that the best thing you can do for the environment is give the government a black check and say, "fix it."

Solyndra is just one example of why that is a very bad idea...

 

[aspen]

But that doesn't mean that the best thing you can do for the environment is give the government a black check and say, "fix it."

Solyndra is just one example of why that is a very bad idea...

I am not interested in giving the government a blank check

 

[Foreigner]

What you are interested in and what you will get if you allow the government to decide the best way to help the environment are two different things.

 

[Foreigner]

Both of these events have taken place in the last three days.
Global warming scientists have said this should already be a thing of the past.
As I said before, the scientists that the UN used to make such dire predictions stated in 2002 that by 2008 people in Great Britain would have to tell their children what snow 'used to be."

The winter of 2010-2011 had Great Britain seeing RECORD snowfall and RECORD cold temps.

Yet, many have their minds made up and don't want to be bothered by facts.


http://english.ntdtv...eeps-japan.html

Record Snow Sweeps Japan


Jan 17 2012

An unusually powerful storm hit the city of Iwamizawa on Monday, leaving behind mounds of snow nearly two metres deep.

Scientists say they can't confirm exactly how much snow fell because their measuring instruments were damaged in the blizzard.

But the island's meteorological agency said this is the most snow Iwamizawa has been hit with since records began in 1946.

Here, the sheer weight of the snow caused the collapse of a wooden roof.

The falling structure knocked over several stoves, setting the building ablaze.

On Tuesday, many bus and train services remained suspended due to snow on the tracks and roadways.




http://newsminer.com...ndow_left_top_4

Copper Basin 300 canceled because of 'impassible' trail conditions

by Staff Report
Fairbanks Daily News Miner
Jan 16, 2012




FAIRBANKS — The Copper Basin 300 sled dog race is the latest victim of Alaska’s weird winter weather pattern as race officials canceled the event Sunday morning, less than a day after the race started.

The race came to a halt when a section of trail was deemed impassible.

A statement by race marshal Greg Parvin said the trail between Meier’s Lake and Sourdough had unusually deep snow conditions, with high winds and bitter cold.

Two Rivers musher Allen Moore, who was one of the race leaders, told his handlers that the trail got bad about 12 miles out of Meiers Lake and snowmachines were getting stuck in attempts to break a trail for the race.

Meier’s Lake is about 75 miles into the race route.

Temperatures were consistently 45 to 50 below zero, according to race officials.

“The decision was made in the interest of the dogs, mushers and race staff,” according to a statement the CB300 posted on its Facebook page.

Mushers, handlers and race officials returned to Meier’s Lake Roadhouse on Sunday morning, where the decision was made to cancel the race.

The Copper Basin 300 bills itself as “the toughest 300 miles in sled dog racing.”

This year’s race started at Chistochina and follows a loop to Paxson in the Alaska Range, south to Meier’s Lake, Sourdough, Lake Louise and Glennallen.

It is a qualifier for the Iditarod and Yukon Quest.

Meanwhile the Nordic Ski Club of Fairbanks decided to postpone the third race in the Flint Hills Cup Series — the Wooly Rhino Open — because temperatures at Birch Hill Recreation Area were predicted to be between 20 and 30 below.

The race was originally scheduled for Saturday, but it was postponed due to cold temperatures. Race officials were hopeful to take advantage of the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday today, but Mother Nature didn’t cooperate.

Race organizer John Estle said the Nordic Ski Club of Fairbanks would try to reschedule the event, but he wasn’t sure when that might happen.

The Alaska Dog Mushers Association was forced to cancel the second event of the Annamaet Challenge Series scheduled for Saturday at the Jeff Studdert Racegrounds.

The ADMA is hoping to get the sprint racing season started at 10:30 a.m. Sunday at the Jeff Studdert Racegrounds on Farmers Loop.

Other Annamaet races at the Studdert Racegrounds are slate for Jan. 28 and Feb. 5.



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[aspen]

Are you claiming that global warming is not happening because scientists are terrible at predicting the rate at which the Earth is warming?

I'll give you that - scientists had no idea that the rotting peat moss uncovered by the melting polar caps would accelerate the melting process, either.

And making judgments about the earth warming up based on wild weather or because it seems to be snowing more where you live is ridiculous. The warming rate is an average of the Earth's temperature. Also, the more the Earth warms the wilder the weather will get.

Global warming is not an issue of belief - the data is in for all to see.

By the way - this thread is more about the problem of pollution than global warming.

 

[Phillip]

Genesis 2:15

One of the first commandments that God gave Adam was to care for the Earth. As I look around our world today, I see the oceans dying from pollution, forests being cut down, and species of animals going extinct. Recently, evangelicals have come together to acknowledge what Christians have been hesitate to recognize - humans are consuming the Earth's resources at a rapid rate.

I just watched a documentary on the garbage patch in the middle of the Pacific Ocean - I expected to see lots of big trash items to be floating around, but to my surprise, that was not the case. Instead, the water was infused with liquid plastic along with tiny specs of plastics. There was not red or orange colored plastic because the birds and fish are attracted to bright colors. This area of the ocean, which covers about 1/4 of the Pacific region is toxic.

Alberta Canada is extracting oil from sand. One town is contributing most of the greenhouse gases admitted by the entire country. The rivers in the region are poisoned, The Native Canadian tribes in the area are already shows increases in cancer,

Fish stocks will collapse by 2050 at the present rate of commercial fishing. There is no reason to believe that commercial fishing rates will remain at present levels - as our populations increase so does the rate of fishing.

Prophets in the OT were not well liked because they told truths people didn't want to hear - environmental scientists are trying to give us a message that we do not want to hear, as well; we are not taking care of the Earth.

So is there anything that we can do to stop the destruction of our planet? Is this a Christian concern?

No, it's not a Christian's concern. A Christian's concern is to subdue the earth with the Gospel of Salvation. That is what God was telling Adam. That is what Jesus has told us.
Nothing more

 

[Foreigner]

Phillip, you are correct, when Aspen commented in the initial post that the report said, "This area of the ocean, which covers about 1/4 of the Pacific region is toxic" I knew that documentary had to have come from Nickelodeon...

Are you claiming that global warming is not happening because scientists are terrible at predicting the rate at which the Earth is warming?

-- No, I am saying scientists predicted certain things would happen. They predicted it would happen within 'X' amount of time.
That means that if it happened in 'X' plus 5 or 10 or 20 then the timeline was off but the predictions of the events are accurate and should be heeded.

Unfortunately for Global Warming Zealots it isn't a matter of a delay in the prediction.
It is the fact that EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY PREDICTED IS ACTUALLY COMING TO PASS
And they:
1,) HAVE NO IDEA WHY
-and-
2.) MADE PLANS TO KEEP THOSE FACTS HIDDEN FROM THE PUBLIC SO WE WOULDN'T FIND OUT

That makes it irresponsible to follow them blindly as people like you appear to be willing to do.


And making judgments about the earth warming up based on wild weather or because it seems to be snowing more where you live is ridiculous.

-- For your statement to have even a morsel of validity, the areas where they predicted record low snowfall and record high temperatures FROM THAT POINT ON should not be in the throws of RECORD HIGH SNOWFALL and RECORD LOW TEMPERATURES.

Or, to make it simpler for you: When JUST THE OPPOSITE of what is predicted occurs on a grand scale, it is prudent to call your predictions into question.

Or to bring it down to a Mr. Rogers level:

If you say an area that normally averages 15-20 degrees during the Winter will within 5 years it will be averaging 3-5 degrees warmer, but 10 years later it is averaging only 1-2 degrees warmer, you could see where the timetable is wrong, but the trendline is at least moving in the right direction.

-HOWEVER-

if after 10 years they are regularly seeing temps that are even LOWER than original base average, well.......you do the math.


Also, the more the Earth warms the wilder the weather will get.

Ah, yes. The predictions of "wilder"
Five years ago they predicted that due to global warming we would see - starting five years ago - record high numbers of hurricanes off the coast of the US for the next several years.
Again, the exact OPPOSITE of what they predicted came to pass. Record LOW numbers of hurricanes happend. The lowest numbers in DECADES.

And your response?....."Close enough...."


Global warming is not an issue of belief - the data is in for all to see.

-- That 'data' you speak of is the very data that the scientists in England are baffled about because it is not come to pass and they have no idea why.

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