Teresa of Avila and Watering the Garden

[Philip James]

and thus the beginning of the Roman apostasy. J

So you accept the fathers of the Church before this? Good!

Perhaps you should reread Ignatius of Antioch, Iraeneus of Lyons and Justin Martyr. You will find there the Orthodox Catholic faith.

We have at least 3 living witnesses to that faith in those particular churches in communion with Rome, those in communion with Alexandria and those in communion with Constantinople.

Do you hold all of these in contempt or just those in communion with Rome?

If Rome is your stumbling block to joining the Feast, then come with Constantinopal , come with Alexandria, but Come!

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Stan B]

So you accept the fathers of the Church before this? Good!

Perhaps you should reread Ignatius of Antioch, Iraeneus of Lyons and Justin Martyr. You will find there the Orthodox Catholic faith.

We have at least 3 living witnesses to that faith in those particular churches in communion with Rome, those in communion with Alexandria and those in communion with Constantinople.

Do you hold all of these in contempt or just those in communion with Rome?

If Rome is your stumbling block to joining the Feast, then come with Constantinopal , come with Alexandria, but Come!

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Philip James >> "So you accept the fathers of the Church before this? Good!"

I didn't say I accepted them as some sort of infallible truth. I read their works in an effort to understand the beliefs of the early church.

Philip James >> "Perhaps you should reread Ignatius of Antioch, Iraeneus of Lyons and Justin Martyr. You will find there the Orthodox Catholic faith."

I did not find any of these very early writers all that informative as to providing some sort of "denominational" dogma, I found it difficult to discover exactly what they believed in any formal sense, and Origen was the worst of the works. Tertullian, a Roman lawyer, was the first I recall as creating a strucuture to what he believed. I think he was the first trinitarian holy roller!

Philip James >> "We have at least 3 living witnesses to that faith in those particular churches in communion with Rome, those in communion with Alexandria and those in communion with Constantinople."

The church changed dramatically after Constantine took over, and made the bishops of Rome, those who courted political favour, and had nothing to with their beliefs. I recall the incident in Rome around AC 350. when the appointed church officials in Rome lost their lives to a completing force in the "church". The incumbents fled to a church for refuge, which resulted in the belligerent force tearing the roof off the church, and dropping rocks on all those inside, until they were all dead!! And thus the political church of Rome was born. :-(

Philip James >> "Do you hold all of these in contempt or just those in communion with Rome?"

Not sure who you are referring to, but many in that day, realized that the church in Rome was no longer of God, and separated themselves from the church in Rome.

My heavy duty study days are now over. I no longer consult my library full of expositors of the past. What I believe, is soundly supported by Athanasius, Eusebius, ‎Irenaeus, et al, is the promise of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come." John 16

I am 77 years old, and as a good and faithful servant, have effectively passed my legacy of faith, on to my children and teenaged grandchildren. Romanism is a small insignificant consideration compared to what is now transpiring in the church in these latter days.

 

[Episkopos]

This started out comforting. Thank you @Episkopos I crave/thirst/seek and knock.
Bless you

So refreshing to see you back on the forum! Peace always!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Are we supposed to call ourselves good and faithful servants? Or are we to say the opposite, and the Lord is the one who decides?

Teresa talked at length about her failures, and how awful they were because of the graces she had been given. Its why so many are endeared to the woman - for her honesty. She did not think highly of herself. In fact, the things she wrote were either requested of her by her superiors or were begged of her by her friends. She wouldn't have written them otherwise.

To pronounce that you have been a good and faithful servant is the complete opposite of humility and self understanding. It is the complete opposite of the work and effects of our Lord in a man's heart. In fact, it is the man who prayed thanks that he was not like those other sinners but was instead a good and faithful servant, who did not walk away justified. Man does not commend himself before God (or even before other men) if he fears God and His Lord has worked any small measure of humility in him.

 

[Stan B]

Are we supposed to call ourselves good and faithful servants? Or are we to say the opposite, and the Lord is the one who decides?

Teresa talked at length about her failures, and how awful they were because of the graces she had been given. Its why so many are endeared to the woman - for her honesty. She did not think highly of herself. In fact, the things she wrote were either requested of her by her superiors or were begged of her by her friends. She wouldn't have written them otherwise.

To pronounce that you have been a good and faithful servant is the complete opposite of humility and self understanding. It is the complete opposite of the work and effects of our Lord in a man's heart. In fact, it is the man who prayed thanks that he was not like those other sinners but was instead a good and faithful servant, who did not walk away justified. Man does not commend himself before God (or even before other men) if he fears God and His Lord has worked any small measure of humility in him.

The Bible says “By their fruit ye shall know them.” And when I see the Godly, God-loving family I have raised, children and grandchildren, it gives me a feeling of satisfaction for a job well done. False humility is not a virtue.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I agree that false humility is not a virtue.

 

[Waiting on him]

Are we supposed to call ourselves good and faithful servants? Or are we to say the opposite, and the Lord is the one who decides?

Teresa talked at length about her failures, and how awful they were because of the graces she had been given. Its why so many are endeared to the woman - for her honesty. She did not think highly of herself. In fact, the things she wrote were either requested of her by her superiors or were begged of her by her friends. She wouldn't have written them otherwise.

To pronounce that you have been a good and faithful servant is the complete opposite of humility and self understanding. It is the complete opposite of the work and effects of our Lord in a man's heart. In fact, it is the man who prayed thanks that he was not like those other sinners but was instead a good and faithful servant, who did not walk away justified. Man does not commend himself before God (or even before other men) if he fears God and His Lord has worked any small measure of humility in him.

Luke 17:10 KJV
[10] So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Episkopos]

The Bible says “By their fruit ye shall know them.” And when I see the Godly, God-loving family I have raised, children and grandchildren, it gives me a feeling of satisfaction for a job well done. False humility is not a virtue.

Is it wise to justify yourself...in a self-congratulatory way as you seem to need to do? Is this not consistent with your character of bigotry towards they you disagree with?

Can you get to know yourself and see your own ways for what they really are?

Why do you wish to take credit for what God has done?

Do you have any humility at all?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I am sorry to say my ignore list has 2 new entries...please, you 2 men, ignore me also. Thanks.

 

[Stan B]

Is it wise to justify yourself...in a self-congratulatory way as you seem to need to do? Is this not consistent with your character of bigotry towards they you disagree with?

Can you get to know yourself and see your own ways for what they really are?

Why do you wish to take credit for what God has done?

Do you have any humility at all?

Episkopos >> Why do you wish to take credit for what God has done? Do you have any humility at all?

I am not taking credit for what God has done! I am proud of what God has done!

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, all things have become new." 2 Corinthians 5;

"I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works;" Psalm 139:14

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2:10

"Paul says "For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you." 2 Corinthians 1:12

"We are not again commending ourselves to you but are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you will have an answer for those who take pride in appearance and not in heart." 2 Corinthians 5:12

"I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith, so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again." Philippians 1:25

Episkopos >> Do you have any humility at all?

What do I have to be humble about? Just as I have taught my children and grandchildren, I have pride and confidence in who I am. Considering that I am His workmanship, and at the end of my life, as I look back over the years, I have been living a miracle in every possible way. I am a proud product of who I am in the One who created me.

Are you not proud of who you are?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Blech!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Growth in righteousness leads to holiness.

Righteousness is a growth.

With what Epi writes, its important to take note that he is usually speaking of the goal rather than growth in righteousness.

Thank your for the response yet still disagree. Not saying anyone has to agree , or even that maybe you and epi don’t see something I don’t...only now in no way can I see IF it is indeed HIS righteousness submitted unto...God’s Righteousness...how “God’s righteousness” is a growth. I’m sorry...I just doesn’t see it. Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

“...unto the righteousness of God.” Who is Holy.

Maybe grow into His Righteousness...as be transformed by the renewing of the mind? Is this what you mean?

 

[GodsGrace]

My favorite is St. Catherine - she was a real nutter! Just like the rest of us....

Do you think she and St. Francis had somethin' goin' ?

 

[GodsGrace]

Phillip James attacks>> Really? What did you study? Where did you start? With Polycarp, Ignatius and Iraeneus? Justin Martyr perhaps?

Well, Phillip James, obviously, I have studied MUCH more than you!! I have studied all of the above-mentioned. As I said, I was engaged in serious study of Romanism. To that end I considered it appropriate to learn the teachings of the Early Church Fathers. My study texts included not only the Ante-Nicean Early Church Fathers, but also the The Nicene and Post Nicean Fathers. I have all 38 volumes of the Church Fathers, which were obtained at a cost of many thousands of $$$

Phillip James attacks>> How bout Augustine, Dominic or Francis?

Yes I have studied the unBiblical rantings of Augustine who came up with the idea of original sin, which was formulated into the Roman Church by Jerome, who declared that all infants who died before being baptized would never enter Heaven, and thus the beginning of the Roman apostasy. Just more Satanic, God-hating nonsense!

Phillip James attacks>> Maybe Thomas Aquinas?

Yeah, Aquinas was the Romanist demon who declared that those who did not bow to Rome, deserved to be separated from this life be sword or fire, and thus began Satan's agenda to kill millions of Christians!!

Phillip James attacks>> The catechism and or encyclicals from the last hundred years or so?

Yes, I seem to recall that whoever was the papal puppet in Rome, that in 1950, finally discovered that their goddess Mary/Queen of Heaven never died, but was taken up into Heaven. On the other side as has been known for thousands of years, Mary died at age 65, in Ephesus, and buried at the 'Church of Mary', where one of the ensuing councils took place.

Phillip James attacks>> "I have barely brushed the surface of these things but perhaps you can point me to sone Catholic teaching or teacher that is 'satanic beyond belief'"

So far, you have said absolutely nothing!! And don't drag the term 'Catholic' into the mud, i.e. the universal Church of Christ, when you are referring to the **Roman** Catholic (so called), the antithesis of Catholic, which emerged as a cult in AD 1049!

If you've read the ECFs,
you cannot really be a protestant.
OR
you can be but you'd also love the early catholic church.

And I'd say the ECFs end with the PRE-Nicene fathers.

Would you agree?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. Probably could not help it. And levitation and demonic influence go hand in hand.

Also, her primary objective in life was to undermine the Protestant Reformation and promote the Counter-Reformation.

"The Spanish religious reformer Teresa de Ávila (Teresa of Jesus; 1515–1582) was an important figure in the Catholic Reformation (also called the Counter Reformation), a reform movement within the Roman Catholic Church that took place in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries..."

Teresa de Ávila | Encyclopedia.com

Why was there a Counter Reformation? Because the RCC did not wish to give up any of its erroneous teachings (including that on holy water).

I studied her book for a year with a friar and some other persons.
To tell you the truth, I wasn't interested in her politics.

Her faith life was amazing to me....
Busy with visitors...I'd love to go through the "rooms" if I can find time.

 

[Enoch111]

Who told you that levitation is a satanic thing, the Exorcist movie?

Here is a Catholic priest connecting levitation to demons.

'...Fr. Lampert: Infestation describes the presence of evil associated with a specific location or object. Demons can torment humans by unexplained noises which include: footsteps, knocking on walls, clattering of chains, mysterious voices, shouts, and laughter. Infestation [with demons] can also include displacement of objects, pictures falling off the walls, furniture moving, levitation of objects, and so on..."

Battling the Demonic: An Interview with America's Exorcists | The Christian Review

"Police and medical staff document America's real-life possession: Official reports claim boy, nine, walked backwards up hospital wall and police captain was too scared to enter family's 'haunted' house

A nine-year-old boy walked backwards up a wall and ceiling as startled medical staff looked on after his mother claimed he and his two siblings had been possessed by demons, according to official reports.

The unlikely-sounding event was detailed in official documents after a child services case worker and a nurse both said they saw the boy 'glide' backwards on the floor, wall and ceiling.

Both were shocked to see the boy apparently float after their mother had been subject to months of scepticism when she claimed her home in Gary, Indiana, was haunted and all three of her children were possessed by demons...

Children possessed by 200 demons 'levitated' and walked backwards over walls in front of hospital staff | Daily Mail Online

Teresa of Avila herself wrote that she had communicated with demons.

Teresa de Avila: The Levitating Saint
...Her levitation incidents seem to have occurred spontaneously during states of spiritual rapture. During the incidents she would feel intimidated and have a sense of humility as she perceived the experience god-sent. Often Teresa would be in a state of trance while levitating. In some cases the nuns would try to keep her on the ground but would fail...

Teresa de Avila: The Levitating Saint - HistoryDisclosure.com

So the question arises: How does an evangelical Christian begin to promote a Catholic *levitating saint* unless there is a serious issue with his theology?

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey! Wait a minute! Don't say that!

I didn't say we can't keep trying.


I certainly won't.
I've read her stuff...

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. Probably could not help it. And levitation and demonic influence go hand in hand.

Also, her primary objective in life was to undermine the Protestant Reformation and promote the Counter-Reformation.

"The Spanish religious reformer Teresa de Ávila (Teresa of Jesus; 1515–1582) was an important figure in the Catholic Reformation (also called the Counter Reformation), a reform movement within the Roman Catholic Church that took place in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries..."

Teresa de Ávila | Encyclopedia.com

Why was there a Counter Reformation? Because the RCC did not wish to give up any of its erroneous teachings (including that on holy water).

I'll be asking Fra' Lorenzo about this.
( about the connection of levitation to demon possession).

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. Probably could not help it. And levitation and demonic influence go hand in hand.

Also, her primary objective in life was to undermine the Protestant Reformation and promote the Counter-Reformation.

"The Spanish religious reformer Teresa de Ávila (Teresa of Jesus; 1515–1582) was an important figure in the Catholic Reformation (also called the Counter Reformation), a reform movement within the Roman Catholic Church that took place in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries..."

Teresa de Ávila | Encyclopedia.com

Why was there a Counter Reformation? Because the RCC did not wish to give up any of its erroneous teachings (including that on holy water).

What was the teaching on holy water??

 

[marks]

Patron Saints Who Were Able to Levitate, Bilocate and Bend the Laws of Nature

(Not that I follow this . . . I have some different ideas myself. This is not new to me.)