Teresa of Avila and Watering the Garden

[VictoryinJesus]

You are living in a paper bible...but I'm trying to wake you up into the real world. You don't yet understand the bible.

Can you say...indoctrination?

Passage please.

 

[GodsGrace]

There's John 6.29: "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Yes...it does sound like belief is a work.
But what it's saying is that it is a work OF GOD,,,
not OUR work.

The work of God is that it is His WILL that we believe in Jesus.

Romans 3:24
Justification (salvation) is a gift from God.
Belief is not a work.
Faith is not a work.

Otherwise we would be saved of our own doing...
And instead it is Jesus that saves us.

 

[Episkopos]

Passage please.

John 5:39

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. (the living Jesus and the living God...in real life.)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you could just be accurate and tell us at what age is a little Hindu girl damned to hell forever by obeying and honouring her parents? From birth? By age 12? Is she saved by dishonouring her parents and refusing to follow their religion?

please explain how you see the bible explaining things like this.

if you can't explain this then what is the point in discussing anything beyond Sunday school lessons?

Religion says she is damned to hell for disobeying. Pushing works. Cursing her even with their mouth. He came to set free from the curse and to bless, to save and not condemn. If she is obeying The Father of all things then even failing in men’s eyes ...she has obeyed Her Father and is blessed and not cursed.

 

[Episkopos]

Religion says she is damned to hell for disobeying.

So which is it? If she obeys her parents as the commandment says...she remains a Hindu (at least when she's young). But your dogmatism says that they are all going to hell anyway because their belief system isn't accurate.

So at what age is she damned to hell by a loving God? in your opinion.... ;)

 

[GodsGrace]

I was just giving an example of how indoctrinationss cause men to lose their fear of God. I didn't intend that you would think my example was about you. That's just an example of the phenomenon I chose.

You speak about fear a lot ( I think ).
How much fear should we have of God?
Are you married?
Do you fear your husband or do you do what He likes out of love for Him?
Or a parent,,,or a brother,,,(if not married).

I think we should have a healthy respect for God...
but I don't think we should fear Him.
Jesus said we are Children of God.
2 corinthians 12:18

 

[Waiting on him]

"And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:23-24

John 6:28-29 KJV
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


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[Waiting on him]

And to God is the place to go!

In the beginning was the WORD.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are living in a paper bible...but I'm trying to wake you up into the real world. You don't yet understand the bible.

Can you say...indoctrination?

How many verses do you live in all day? Do you consult the bible in order to dress in the morning? What about food. Is peanut butter biblical? You must be very confused about these things.

That is not nice. I ask a legitimate question which doubtfully you will answer...instead you give false witness against who I am when you know nothing about me. I’m simply asking how it is His righteousness one is to seek and to establish God’s righteousness and not their own ...if this is true than how is His righteousness inferior to His Holiness so one rules over the other in the next age??

That is the only tension I ever experience in not being able to ask about something without being offensive to one who hates being ever questioned.

 

[Waiting on him]

Consider the difference between Joshua and Caleb, and the other adults who were brought out of Egypt [600,000 not counting women and children]. 40 years of trials in the wilderness before entering into the Promised Land versus death within 40 years and no entrance allowed. Who passed God's test?

Only those that believed

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Of course! That's the point.

Who is it who does otherwise?

Have you read the thread...?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So which is it? If she obeys her parents as the commandment says...she remains a Hindu (at least when she's young). But your dogmatism says that they are all going to hell anyway because their belief system isn't accurate.

So at what age is she damned to hell by a loving God? in your opinion.... ;)

Deflecting...by your standard she could never be Holy but only maybe possibly righteous. Ruled over in the age to come...hIs righteousness coming up short of His holiness. I’m already condemned by your mouth so what chance does this girl have...oh...she makes you look compassionate in fighting for her to live. Robbing from her innocent image ...either answer the question asked or say you refuse to.

 

[amadeus]

If I understood correctly, Epi says there is a difference in righteousness and holiness and that difference is being “led of the Spirit” or “in the Spirit” ...so are you “led” or “in” ...do you support righteousness is separate from Holiness in God? Do you support in the age to come that those Holy and “in” the Spirit will rule over those just righteous and “led” of the Spirit. I’m sorry...but it doesn’t line up. Can you show me how it lines up with what God has said?

What is being taught is righteousness is less than Holy. So I’m thinking I must be seriously deceived and confused. Because if it is His righteousness one is to seek first and to establish God’s righteousness and not our own...how is His righteousness less or inferior to Holiness to where one rules over the other in the age to come?

Don't confuse yourself or become upset over it. I honestly do not understand Epi's understanding and my own efforts have at times left my head swirling.

Definitions of words can sometimes be helpful, but sometimes I believe that they really can confuse the issue for some people. It is like our minds can also sometimes be helpful, but having a brain comparable to Einstein's will not save anyone. Jesus is the One who will lead us through to the brightest of Lights if we will follow Him. Who is not allowed to follow Him?

If I were to try to define the words, righteousness and holiness, at the moment without having read this thread I would be closer to where @GodsGrace is. For me surrender and humility are more important things to know about, or better, to act upon. That is the Way to be lifted up... by going down. Where then is this "up"? It is where God is and it could or should be within me.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Don't confuse yourself or become upset over it. I honestly do not understand Epi's understanding and my own efforts have at times left my head swirling.

Definitions of words can sometimes be helpful, but sometimes I believe that they really can confuse the issue for some people. It is like our minds can also sometimes be helpful, but having a brain comparable to Einstein's will not save anyone. Jesus is the One who will lead us through to the brightest of Lights if we will follow Him. Who is not allowed to follow Him?

If I were to try to define the words, righteousness and holiness, at the moment without having read this thread I would be closer to where @GodsGrace is. For me surrender and humility are more important things to know about, or better, to act upon. That is the Way to be lifted up... by going down. Where then is this "up"? It is where God is and it could or should be within me.

So you don’t understand it but take it as the word and therefore has to be true. Do you think His righteousness in “seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness” “God’s righteousness” established (planted)falls short of His Holiness and His Holiness rules over His righteousness in the age to come?

 

[amadeus]

Passage please.

Back and take a deep breath and simply say, 'Thank you Jesus', several times from the heart.

 

[Waiting on him]

Belief is not a work.
Faith is not a work.

They are gifts.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So which is it? If she obeys her parents as the commandment says...she remains a Hindu (at least when she's young). But your dogmatism says that they are all going to hell anyway because their belief system isn't accurate.

So at what age is she damned to hell by a loving God? in your opinion.... ;)

I am sorry I was cruel. That was uncalled for. Getting off here. Can’t change your mind ...but I really do not understand ...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Back and take a deep breath and simply say, 'Thank you Jesus', several times from the heart.

Doing it now. Thank you.

 

[amadeus]

Only those that believed

The others had a shred of belief, but were lacking in faith in spite of the tremendous miracles they had witnessed for years ever since they were back in Egypt. Here I guess we see the difference between believing in a measure and really putting our faith, the faith God has given us, into it. Remember that devils have also believed, but that is not enough.

 

[Waiting on him]

The others had a shred of belief, but were lacking in faith in spite of the tremendous miracles they had witnessed for years ever since they were back in Egypt. Here I guess we see the difference between believing in a measure and really putting our faith, the faith God has given us, into it. Remember that devils have also believed, but that is not enough.

Romans 10:9 KJV
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So your saying these are dead words?

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