The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

M3n0r4h

Active Member
Jun 3, 2023
417
156
43
South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Especially when considering the contradiction to a particular verse in Exodus 34 compared to other books and their respective verses.

Exodus 34:5 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the Lord. 6 And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.”

Deuteronomy 24:16

Verse Concepts


“Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.

2 Kings 14:6

Verse Concepts


But the sons of the slayers he did not put to death, according to what is written in the book of the Law of Moses, as the Lord commanded, saying, “The fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, nor the sons be put to death for the fathers; but each shall be put to death for his own sin.”

Ezekiel 18:19

Verse Concepts


“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live.
Ezekiel 18:20

Verse Concepts


The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.


For me Exodus 34:7 gives context to the cry of the Jewish people regarding the crucifixion of Jesus in Matthew 25 as they called for Barabbas to be released and Jesus to be crucified.

25. All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”

The Apostles, including Paul, honored the Sabbath. And Jesus commanded, love God with all our heart and mind, and our neighbor as ourself, that is the law upon which all the laws and the prophets hang.

The Decalogue examples that. It all pertains to the love for God, family, and neighbors.
Heaven and Earth haven't yet passed away.;)
thanks for posting that Ex. 34:5, BJ.

I had forgotten all about that significant event.

that is hugely important to specific debates.

I made a note of it for future fodder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ButterflyJones

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
okay .... so that's when Christians were supposed to have cast the 10 Commandments aside then?

as the Bible shows, that's not what happened.

your response?
Why do you keep belaboring this? CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW! Christ's sacrifice satisfied all the OT laws' requirements.

Why do you want to put yourself (assuming you're a Christian) under the law? Do you really want to replace the guidance of the Holy Spirit with the written word? That is a denial of Christ!

Read this carefully => Galatians 3:23-26, "Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be reckoned as righteous by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian [the law], for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. <=

Is there something about that which is confusing to you? Again, before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed...But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian [the law.
 

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
thanks for posting that Ex. 34:5, BJ.

I had forgotten all about that significant event.

that is hugely important to specific debates.

I made a note of it for future fodder.
When are you guys going to get out from under the written OT law and embrace the new covenant that God purchased with Christ's own blood?

Acts 20:28, "Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son."

Or is Christ's sacrifice meaningless to you?
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,163
689
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Silly is right.

Jesus died to fulfill all the requirements of the OT laws. To say that Christians must keep the OT laws is to deny Christ.
The Law cursed Christ which was part of the Law design! Whats sad here is why are these forum members not discussing what makes the New Commandment "New".

F2F
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,381
2,184
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You know what your issue is?
You dont have a good memory, and a Liar has to have a good memory.

So, you just LIED to RitaJanice, and said that you don't teach that sanctification is a process.

Yet the post that you are now screaming about, that i wrote, was in response to you posting this about Sancification.

Let me prove you're a liar.

1stCenturyLady said:
"if sanctification is not the name of the life process we go through, what is?
That was the QUESTION that I prayed to God. He answered and said, "GLORIFICATION." So I do NOT teach that sanctification is a process and never have, because it only means "set apart after being cleansed" and that was done when Jesus took away our sin at justification. You see, I had noticed it always seemed to be in the "past tense" so couldn't be the name of an ongoing process. Thus the question, "what is?"
 

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
6,006
2,985
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Why do you keep belaboring this? CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW! Christ's sacrifice satisfied all the OT laws' requirements.

Why do you want to put yourself (assuming you're a Christian) under the law? Do you really want to replace the guidance of the Holy Spirit with the written word? That is a denial of Christ!

Read this carefully => Galatians 3:23-26, "Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be reckoned as righteous by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian [the law], for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. <=

Is there something about that which is confusing to you? Again, before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed...But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian [the law.
Gal 3:23-and on is best read regarding the KJ version. so. 23 But before faith came, we were kept (guarded) under the law, shut up (confined) unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. but after that faith has come, we are no longer under the schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Now 4:9 points out about how one come to know God or rather are known of God ? How turn ye again to the beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage ?
So such labour in vain.
who desire to be under the law.
And 4:23 the Bond woman was born after the flesh but the freewoman was by the promise. =Jerusalem that is free.

If you are led by the Holy Spirit ye are not under the law. such a one understands that we have been called unto liberty: but not to use such as an occasion for sensuality:
One who is in Christ Jesus has charity to serve one another in Grace.
But if you bite and devour one another, take heed or you will be consumed by one another.

5:18 is not under the law. but 19-21 is the works of the flesh. and 22-25 against such things there is no law.

The first and greatest commandment is to ? so how can such be dismissed ? not to mention all the rest have value. so one who rejects such as of value is of Satan in fact, not that we are under the Law, but under Grace. but the value of the commandments still stands, but now is under Grace, for we are free of the schoolmaster and grown up and worthy of Christ Jesus and they who are not worthy are the under Bondage, Carnal !
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,381
2,184
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Law cursed Christ which was part of the Law design! Whats sad here is why are these forum members not discussing what makes the New Commandment "New".

F2F

The New Covenant is a completely different animal. You can hardly compare it to the Old Covenant.

Old Covenant – to recognize sin, Romans 7:13
- Memorization
- Keep the letter of the law by human willpower with a sin nature
- Responsible to learn all the laws
- Break one you break them all -
Circumcision with knife - physical -
Sign of the covenant – Sabbath day Exodus 31:13 - kept by letter of the law once a week
Ministry of Death, but those saints believing in God, He will pass over their sins.


New Covenant - freedom from sin, John 8:32-36

- Must be born again
- Repent to receive the Holy Spirit - Circumcision without hands – cutting away sin and Satan’s influence from our nature – spiritual 1 John 5:18; 1 John 3:4-5; 8-9
- Laws are supernaturally written on our conscience in levels, from faith to faith, or from obedience to obedience to be sinless, kept supernaturally by the power of the Holy Spirit within.
- Sinless, and the Spirit keeps us sinless. Righteous
- Ministry of the Spirit
- Sign of the New Covenant – the CUP of the New Covenant, 1 Corinthians 11:25
- Live up to the light and level of faith you have been given, Philippians 3:16, even if it isn't all the light there is, or that you'll ever receive in a future level of faith/obedience.
- keep the spirit of the Sabbath everyday, every hour, every minute - as we abide and rest in Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath.
- What He starts He will finish to perfection. Hebrews 12:2
- Mature in all the fruit of the Spirit 2 Peter 1:5-7 Perfection and Holy
 
Last edited:

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,163
689
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The New Covenant is a completely different animal. You can hardly compare it to the Old Covenant.

Old Covenant – to recognize sin, Romans 7:13
- Memorization
- Keep the letter of the law by human willpower with a sin nature
- Responsible to learn all the laws
- Break one you break them all -
Circumcision with knife - physical -
Sign of the covenant – Sabbath day Exodus 31:13 -
Ministry of Death, but those saints believing in God, He will pass over their sins.
I'm not fully over the discussion here so forgive me if I'm off point.

I agree in principle with your comparison, however a believer in Christ today must apply the principles of the Law more stringently than the Mosaic Code required. You get this yeah? He/She will go beyond the Law, and seek to apply the spirit of its commandments! Hence in
Christ, he/she is not so much delivered from the Law, as delivered from its curse; the Law remains as a guide and a teacher now.

In Exodus 21 see how the same law of retaliation is applied in the exercise of love (Luke 6:38), and in the consideration that should
be shown towards servants etc. (Eph 6:9; Col 4:1 and so on)

New Covenant speaks to the Old Covenant in the same way the Old was a School Master to lead them to the New (Christ)

So, if you can explain the essence of the argument here, that would be good.

Thanks
F2F
 

ButterflyJones

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2023
1,575
1,232
113
USA
youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It appears what's often overlooked when insisting there is no law of God today is that Jesus said not one jot nor tittle shall disappear from the law until all is accomplished.

Not all regarding the Messiah prophecy is yet accomplished.

Jesus said, he did not come to abolish the law. He came to fulfill the law. Fulfill is not, cannot be, the same as abolish.

That singular statement by Jesus, God, insures the argument that insists the law is over and done with is not true. Because Jesus said so in the very first book of his new testament.
Matthew, the book written to the church,chapter 5.

Jesus said there that he came to fulfill the law. Not abolish it.
Jesus in fact said we are to teach the law.


Those who insist the law is finished should read chapter 5 in full. Because Jesus warns against such things as that in verse 19.

19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

There is no reason to continue arguing with the lawless advocates. Their lot is set. They deny scripture and the words of Jesus himself.

They are the least in the kingdom of Heaven.
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,381
2,184
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm not fully over the discussion here so forgive me if I'm off point.

I agree in principle with your comparison, however a believer in Christ today must apply the principles of the Law more stringently than the Mosaic Code required. You get this yeah? He/She will go beyond the Law, and seek to apply the spirit of its commandments! Hence in
Christ, he/she is not so much delivered from the Law, as delivered from its curse; the Law remains as a guide and a teacher now.

In Exodus 21 see how the same law of retaliation is applied in the exercise of love (Luke 6:38), and in the consideration that should
be shown towards servants etc. (Eph 6:9; Col 4:1 and so on)

New Covenant speaks to the Old Covenant in the same way the Old was a School Master to lead them to the New (Christ)

So, if you can explain the essence of the argument here, that would be good.

Thanks
F2F
What has changed from the Old Covenant is how we are able to keep the covenant of God, which only applies to the Ten Commandments. Most of the schoolmaster is still valid for today. We still can't marry a close relative like parent sibling close uncle or cousin.

In today's denominations there is a hesitancy to teach on the infilling of the Holy Spirit unless it is a Pentecostal or Charismatic church. Therefore, like you say the New Covenant commands go deeper than the surface commands of the Ten Commandments. But because of the infilling of the Holy Spirit they are easier to keep, because the desire to sin has been taken away supernaturally. This fundamental aspect of the Holy Spirit is missing in most of the Church today. But as Jesus said, we MUST be born again. That is not theology, it is an experience.
 

Patrick1966

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2022
3,551
1,735
113
Orlando, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

Psalm 111:7-8
Young's Literal Translation
7 The works of His hands [are] true and just, Stedfast [are] all His appointments.

8 They are sustained for ever to the age. They are made in truth and uprightness.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,163
689
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What has changed from the Old Covenant is how we are able to keep the covenant of God, which only applies to the Ten Commandments.
I would question your thought of us being "able" to keep the covenant, which is established through the teaching of circumcision. For us to be circumcised of heart, is putting on Christ, he is circumcised with the circumcision made without hands by the circumcision of Christ.
Even Abraham was put to sleep when the fire passed through the sacrifices - same lesson applies to faith in Christ. He obtained eternal redemption for himself, we benefit.

Most of the schoolmaster is still valid for today. We still can't marry a close relative like parent sibling close uncle or cousin.

In today's denominations there is a hesitancy to teach on the infilling of the Holy Spirit unless it is a Pentecostal or Charismatic church. Therefore, like you say the New Covenant commands go deeper than the surface commands of the Ten Commandments. But because of the infilling of the Holy Spirit they are easier to keep, because the desire to sin has been taken away supernaturally. This fundamental aspect of the Holy Spirit is missing in most of the Church today. But as Jesus said, we MUST be born again. That is not theology, it is an experience.
I see a lot in there which doesn't sit that well, but I've just come off the back of weeks of arguing with members, so I'm resting up so to speak.

I guess where I am coming from is the teaching aspect of the Law, which fascinates me, as it instructs us a great deal about Who God is, and how He operates with His People.

I know this is simple but it matters

Take Exodus 20:25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it.

defilement is the lesson here!

For the Israelite these words carried meaning, though they couldn't see its fulfillment at the time, we/they can now, if we want!

Christ was to be shaped by the Creator - Christ is our altar as per Hebrews 13:10 - everything about that stone under the Law represents Christ perfectly - made in our physical likeness though with divine parentage, but unshaped (in character) by our nature!

"We beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father" (John 1:14).
"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself (2 Cor. 5:19).
"God was manifest in the flesh" (1 Tim 3:16).

The beautiful character of Christ was not derived by giving way to the desires of the flesh (no hand influenced his character), but by strength obtained of the Father (Psa 80:17).

"He that hath seen me hath seen the Father," could only have been spoken by him, and that because of his divine parentage.

All of this and much more comes from just from Exodus 20:25 - I could write volumes on that verse, so when you hear of those saying only the 10 commandments matter, it doesn't resonate well, as the Law is the Work of God, perfect and holy, designed well for its task...that means all of it.

F2F
 

M3n0r4h

Active Member
Jun 3, 2023
417
156
43
South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Psalm 111:7-8
Young's Literal Translation
7 The works of His hands [are] true and just, Stedfast [are] all His appointments.
8 They are sustained for ever to the age. They are made in truth and uprightness.
this is one of the interesting "conveniences" of all the various modern translations today:

everybody can just choose which Bible version suits their opinions/level of Christian sincerity best - just as the Bible told us there would be many who would gather teachers to tickle their ears and tell them what they most prefer to hear and to believe.

most modern Christians don't want rules and don't want Commandments.

it's pretty fascinating for me to know that all of the oldest Bible versions are in agreement about things the modern church just ... doesn't like. the question of the Commandments is a big one.

Psalm 119 still today speaks highly of the Commandments, even in the most modern (altered/watered down) versions, but in one of the oldest Bibles, the Wycliffe, Psalm 119 speaks even more so about the Commandments.

where we find the word 'precepts' in the modern versions of that Psalm, the early Bibles used the word Commandments, which about doubles the references to the Commandments in those versions and confirms the eternal significance, and continued relevance, of the Commandments for Christians to this day.

here are some of the Oldest Bibles' versions for the Psalm 111 verse in question: (note the words used in the Old English for Commandments, not appointments.)

"Psalms 111:7 That he yyue to hem the eritage of folkis; the werkis of hise hondis ben treuthe and doom. Psalms 111:8 Alle hise comaundementis ben feithful, confermed in to the world of world; maad in treuthe and equite."
1394 Wycliffe

"Psalms 111:7 The workes of his hodes are verite & iudgment, all his comaundemetes are true. Psalms 111:8 They stonde fast for euer & euer, & are done in trueth & equite."
1535 Coverdale

"Psalms 111:7 The worckes of his hands are veryte and iudgment, all hys commaundementes are true. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for euer and euer, and are done in truth and equyte."
1537 Matthew Bible

"Psalms 111:7 The worckes of his handes are veryte & iudgement, all his commaundmentes are true. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for euer and euer, and are done in trueth and equite."
1539 Great Bible

"Psalms 111:7 The workes of his handes are veritie and iudgement: all his commaundementes are true. Psalms 111:8 They be set sure for euer and euer: they are done in trueth and equitie."
1568 Bishop's Bible

"Psalms 111:7 The works of his hands [are] veritie and iudgment: all his commandements are sure. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for euer and euer: [and] are done in trueth and vprightnes."
1611 King James

"Psalms 111:7 That he may give them the inheritance of the Gentiles: the works of his hands are truth and judgment. Psalms 111:8 All his commandments are faithful: confirmed for ever and ever, made in truth and equity."
1750 Douay-Rheimes Bible

"Psalms 111:7 The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness."
1769 King James

" Psalms 111:7 The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness."
1833 Webster

Plus 5 more versions that run right up to 1902.
 
Last edited:

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
this is one of the interesting "conveniences" of all the various modern translations today:

everybody can just choose which Bible version suits their opinions/level of Christian sincerity best - just as the Bible told us there would be many who would gather teachers to tickle their ears and tell them what they most prefer to hear and to believe.

most modern Christians don't want rules and don't want Commandments.

it's pretty fascinating for me to know that all of the oldest Bible versions are in agreement about things the modern church just ... doesn't like. the question of the Commandments is a big one.

Psalm 119 still today speaks highly of the Commandments, even in the most modern (altered/watered down) versions, but in one of the oldest Bibles, the Wycliffe, Psalm 119 speaks even more so about the Commandments.

where we find the word 'precepts' in the modern versions of that Psalm, the early Bibles used the word Commandments, which about doubles the references to the Commandments in those versions and confirms the eternal significance, and continued relevance, of the Commandments for Christians to this day.

here are some of the Oldest Bibles' versions for the Psalm 111 verse in question: (note the words used in the Old English for Commandments, not appointments.)

"Psalms 111:7 That he yyue to hem the eritage of folkis; the werkis of hise hondis ben treuthe and doom. Psalms 111:8 Alle hise comaundementis ben feithful, confermed in to the world of world; maad in treuthe and equite."
1394 Wycliffe

"Psalms 111:7 The workes of his hodes are verite & iudgment, all his comaundemetes are true. Psalms 111:8 They stonde fast for euer & euer, & are done in trueth & equite."
1535 Coverdale

"Psalms 111:7 The worckes of his hands are veryte and iudgment, all hys commaundementes are true. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for euer and euer, and are done in truth and equyte."
1537 Matthew Bible

"Psalms 111:7 The worckes of his handes are veryte & iudgement, all his commaundmentes are true. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for euer and euer, and are done in trueth and equite."
1539 Great Bible

"Psalms 111:7 The workes of his handes are veritie and iudgement: all his commaundementes are true. Psalms 111:8 They be set sure for euer and euer: they are done in trueth and equitie."
1568 Bishop's Bible

"Psalms 111:7 The works of his hands [are] veritie and iudgment: all his commandements are sure. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for euer and euer: [and] are done in trueth and vprightnes."
1611 King James

"Psalms 111:7 That he may give them the inheritance of the Gentiles: the works of his hands are truth and judgment. Psalms 111:8 All his commandments are faithful: confirmed for ever and ever, made in truth and equity."
1750 Douay-Rheimes Bible

"Psalms 111:7 The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness."
1769 King James

" Psalms 111:7 The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure. Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness."
1833 Webster

Plus 5 more versions that run right up to 1902.
You wrote "everybody can just choose which Bible version suits their opinions/level of Christian sincerity best". You, of course, choose the King James. Why? Because you think that hard-to-decipher 17th Century Englyshe somehow is superior to the language that you, I, and everyone else uses. Or that somehow a translation ordered by a secular king and based on inferior sources and inferior textual criticism is better than what we have today. The translations that we have today are the best Bibles that we have ever had, based on a) better sources, b) better translation techniques, c) better understanding of the ancient cultures and what the text meant to them. One question: if the King James is more understandable than today's excellent translations, forsooth why does thou not writeth in 17th Century Englyshe?

Claiming that "most modern Christians don't want rules and don't want Commandments" is actually true. True Christians are led by the Holy Spirit and don't need written rules and/or commandments.

Galatians 3:24-27, "Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be reckoned as righteous by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian, for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ." That is perfectly clear! We were imprisoned under the law until Christ came.

And quoting two verses of Psalm 111 (even though verse divisions are not part of Scripture) in archaic Englyshe proves absolutely nothing. The Old Covenant has people under the law, but "For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery" Galatians 5:1
 

Pierac

Active Member
Nov 15, 2021
756
159
43
61
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

Who are the 10 Commandments written to?
They are written to all God's Children.

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6
Pay attention.... Got this from ELM...

Some people feel the Law can never be changed, even to the crossing of a “t” or the dotting of an “i.” Those who believe this will be shocked at what the Bible says. The Law of God can be changed and parts abolished if God so desires. This is Progressive Revelation in action.

To show that the Law of God can be changed, or even abolished, it is necessary to see how historically the Law of God started, developed, and finally became the Old Covenant. We need to see how the Law was changed and altered from time to time from Adam to Noah. It later changed: from Noah to Abraham, again from Abraham to Moses, and from Moses to Samuel, then from Samuel to Ezekiel the prophet, and from Ezekiel to John the Baptist, and finally to Christ before His crucifixion.

The Law of God Starts in Genesis

To understand this matter clearly, we need to be reminded that when the apostle Paul talked about the Law of God, he plainly stated that Christians were no longer “under the law.” He then gave an illustration from that Law, of Sarah and Hagar recorded in Genesis (Galatians 4:21–31). This reference of Paul to the Law was long before Moses established the Old Covenant at Mount Sinai. The Book of Genesis itself was reckoned by Jews and by biblical authorities as the first book of the Law. The Law of God, commands of God given to man, begins with the first chapters of Genesis, not with the twentieth chapter of the Book of Exodus where the Ten Commandments and subsidiary laws were given for the nation of Israel.

What is the very first Law of God found in Holy Scriptures? The first Law is found in Genesis 2:16–17, with both a positive and a negative command. It is,

“And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil [bad], you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.’”

Genesis 2:16–17

God also recorded a judgment upon man if he would ever disobey God’s command and eat of the forbidden tree. That was “For in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.” Paul said that mankind found that this Law (indeed, any Law of God) was impossible to keep or to save a person. Before long, Adam and Eve were eating of the forbidden fruit and the Law, meant to keep them alive, espoused death for them. Spiritually that “death” of Adam spread to embrace the whole human race (Romans 5:12–21). This doctrinal fact is a prime teaching of the apostle Paul.

In the period from Adam to Noah, there were a few other laws of God recorded in the Holy Scriptures. There were laws against

murder (Genesis 4:15, 23; 9:6), immodesty (Genesis 9:23), wrong marriages (Genesis 6:1–4), and wickedness in general (Genesis 6:5).

Jewish theologians put these early laws into one package, with a few other laws and called them the “Laws of Noah.” These laws, mentioned especially around the time of Noah, were the only ones that Jews in Christ’s time (and even today) felt that all Gentile nations were specifically required to observe for a right relationship with God. In the time of Noah, no other laws were mentioned in the Scriptures as necessary to be kept. For example, the Sabbath was not a requirement during the first 2,500 years of man’s existence. There was no command in Genesis 2 that said that humans were required to observe the Sabbath day as God did on the seventh day of creation.

Let us look at the dissimilarities and see how God altered His laws many times. So, when you ask about the need to keep God’s Law, you first must determine what period of Law (and what laws) you mean. In no way are “laws of God” eternal or for application at all periods of time or for all people. One must be careful and not make such erroneous evaluations. Note some major differences.

The Vast Differences between the Patriarchal and Mosaic Legal Systems​

Under the Abrahamic covenant, God allowed his people to offer sacrifices anywhere they pleased (Genesis 12:7, 35:1; Job 1:5). Moses changed this law by commanding only the family of Aaron to attend to the sacred rites (Exodus 40:1–16) and those sacrifices could only be offered on the altar in the Sanctuary (Deuteronomy 12:13–14).

Abraham planted a grove (or sacred tree) in Beersheba (Genesis 21:33), but under Moses the use of groves became prohibited (Exodus 34:14; 2 Chronicles 14:3; Isaiah 17:8).

Jacob set up a pillar (Genesis 28:18), but this was later forbidden by Moses (Deuteronomy 16:22, margin).

God said in the time of Noah: “Every moving thing [i.e., all animals] that lives shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things” (Genesis 9:3), but with Moses only the beasts mentioned in Leviticus chapter 11 were allowed or disallowed.

There were no official feast days commanded in the time of Abraham, but with Moses, ordained festivals became required periods for attendance by all Israelite males (Leviticus 23).

There was no commanded Tithing at first. Tithing was not a law in the patriarchal period.

None of the patriarchs wore phylacteries (at least we have no record of such), but with Moses their use was commanded (Numbers 15:37–41).

The land did not have to rest every 7th year under the patriarchs (Genesis 41:34–35), but with Moses, the land rest was commanded (Leviticus 25:1–7).

Abraham married his half-sister with God’s full approval (Genesis 20:12), but this became illegal in the time of Moses (Leviticus 20:17).

Abraham was confederate with his Canaanite neighbors (Genesis 14:13), but no leagues with the Canaanites were allowed in the dispensation of Moses. Indeed, the Canaanites were to be exterminated (Deuteronomy 20:17–18).

There was also no commanded Sabbath law in the patriarchal period. However, in the time of Moses the Sabbath was first introduced as a law for Israelites to obey (Exodus 20:8; Nehemiah 9:14; Ezekiel 20:12) with stringent requirements that changed the very character of the 7th day of the week. Moses had now emerged on the scene and a profound change in religious essentials had come into existence for Israel.

The differences between the religious system of the patriarchs and that of Moses were dramatic. If a religious Israelite after the time of Moses could have been transported back to Abraham’s time and witnessed Abraham (not knowing who he was) performing his religious duties, he would have called him an unconverted heathen. And though it is made clear in the Scriptures that God knew Abraham “obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws” (Genesis 26:5), those laws (the Law of God in Abraham’s time) were very different from those later laws commanded to Moses and to the Israelites at Mount Sinai.

Indeed, for Abraham’s first 99 years of life he was not circumcised, later he built altars anywhere he pleased, he raised up groves, he offered no lamb at Passover, he kept no weekly Sabbath, he attended no holy feasts, he wore no phylacteries, he married his half-sister, kept no land sabbath [that is, no Sabbatical Years], and of all things he was allied with the Canaanites.

What God did in the time of Moses was to rescind the religious requirements of the Patriarchal period in favor of stricter laws ordained in the time of Moses. The two religious systems were so completely different that if one were to mix the teachings together, utter contradiction and confusion would result. There is no compatibility at all between the two systems.

However, some people today are so conservative in their views that they will not allow God to establish new religious systems different from previous ones. They cannot believe God would ever change ritualistic or ceremonial teachings that He once gave to His people. In no way is this true biblical teaching. Certainly God does not change His mind in overall philosophical matters that dominate His character and personality (Malachi 3:6), but He most decidedly changed His own religious systems in the past when He saw fit.

The other prime example of such vast changes in God’s laws, commandments, and teachings is God’s change from the Mosaic System to the advanced Christian System which depends not on Mosaic Law, but on the merits of grace. Diversities between the Mosaic and the Christian Systems are so pronounced that the two cannot be compared in a systematic sense. There is as much difference between the teachings of Christianity and Moses as there is between the Mosaic and the Patriarchal Systems.
 

ButterflyJones

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2023
1,575
1,232
113
USA
youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Pay attention.... Got this from ELM...

Some people feel the Law can never be changed, even to the crossing of a “t” or the dotting of an “i.” Those who believe this will be shocked at what the Bible says. The Law of God can be changed and parts abolished if God so desires. This is Progressive Revelation in action.

To show that the Law of God can be changed, or even abolished, it is necessary to see how historically the Law of God started, developed, and finally became the Old Covenant. We need to see how the Law was changed and altered from time to time from Adam to Noah. It later changed: from Noah to Abraham, again from Abraham to Moses, and from Moses to Samuel, then from Samuel to Ezekiel the prophet, and from Ezekiel to John the Baptist, and finally to Christ before His crucifixion.

The Law of God Starts in Genesis

To understand this matter clearly, we need to be reminded that when the apostle Paul talked about the Law of God, he plainly stated that Christians were no longer “under the law.” He then gave an illustration from that Law, of Sarah and Hagar recorded in Genesis (Galatians 4:21–31). This reference of Paul to the Law was long before Moses established the Old Covenant at Mount Sinai. The Book of Genesis itself was reckoned by Jews and by biblical authorities as the first book of the Law. The Law of God, commands of God given to man, begins with the first chapters of Genesis, not with the twentieth chapter of the Book of Exodus where the Ten Commandments and subsidiary laws were given for the nation of Israel.

What is the very first Law of God found in Holy Scriptures? The first Law is found in Genesis 2:16–17, with both a positive and a negative command. It is,

“And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil [bad], you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.’”

Genesis 2:16–17

God also recorded a judgment upon man if he would ever disobey God’s command and eat of the forbidden tree. That was “For in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.” Paul said that mankind found that this Law (indeed, any Law of God) was impossible to keep or to save a person. Before long, Adam and Eve were eating of the forbidden fruit and the Law, meant to keep them alive, espoused death for them. Spiritually that “death” of Adam spread to embrace the whole human race (Romans 5:12–21). This doctrinal fact is a prime teaching of the apostle Paul.

In the period from Adam to Noah, there were a few other laws of God recorded in the Holy Scriptures. There were laws against

murder (Genesis 4:15, 23; 9:6), immodesty (Genesis 9:23), wrong marriages (Genesis 6:1–4), and wickedness in general (Genesis 6:5).

Jewish theologians put these early laws into one package, with a few other laws and called them the “Laws of Noah.” These laws, mentioned especially around the time of Noah, were the only ones that Jews in Christ’s time (and even today) felt that all Gentile nations were specifically required to observe for a right relationship with God. In the time of Noah, no other laws were mentioned in the Scriptures as necessary to be kept. For example, the Sabbath was not a requirement during the first 2,500 years of man’s existence. There was no command in Genesis 2 that said that humans were required to observe the Sabbath day as God did on the seventh day of creation.

Let us look at the dissimilarities and see how God altered His laws many times. So, when you ask about the need to keep God’s Law, you first must determine what period of Law (and what laws) you mean. In no way are “laws of God” eternal or for application at all periods of time or for all people. One must be careful and not make such erroneous evaluations. Note some major differences.

The Vast Differences between the Patriarchal and Mosaic Legal Systems​

Under the Abrahamic covenant, God allowed his people to offer sacrifices anywhere they pleased (Genesis 12:7, 35:1; Job 1:5). Moses changed this law by commanding only the family of Aaron to attend to the sacred rites (Exodus 40:1–16) and those sacrifices could only be offered on the altar in the Sanctuary (Deuteronomy 12:13–14).

Abraham planted a grove (or sacred tree) in Beersheba (Genesis 21:33), but under Moses the use of groves became prohibited (Exodus 34:14; 2 Chronicles 14:3; Isaiah 17:8).

Jacob set up a pillar (Genesis 28:18), but this was later forbidden by Moses (Deuteronomy 16:22, margin).

God said in the time of Noah: “Every moving thing [i.e., all animals] that lives shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things” (Genesis 9:3), but with Moses only the beasts mentioned in Leviticus chapter 11 were allowed or disallowed.

There were no official feast days commanded in the time of Abraham, but with Moses, ordained festivals became required periods for attendance by all Israelite males (Leviticus 23).

There was no commanded Tithing at first. Tithing was not a law in the patriarchal period.

None of the patriarchs wore phylacteries (at least we have no record of such), but with Moses their use was commanded (Numbers 15:37–41).

The land did not have to rest every 7th year under the patriarchs (Genesis 41:34–35), but with Moses, the land rest was commanded (Leviticus 25:1–7).

Abraham married his half-sister with God’s full approval (Genesis 20:12), but this became illegal in the time of Moses (Leviticus 20:17).

Abraham was confederate with his Canaanite neighbors (Genesis 14:13), but no leagues with the Canaanites were allowed in the dispensation of Moses. Indeed, the Canaanites were to be exterminated (Deuteronomy 20:17–18).

There was also no commanded Sabbath law in the patriarchal period. However, in the time of Moses the Sabbath was first introduced as a law for Israelites to obey (Exodus 20:8; Nehemiah 9:14; Ezekiel 20:12) with stringent requirements that changed the very character of the 7th day of the week. Moses had now emerged on the scene and a profound change in religious essentials had come into existence for Israel.

The differences between the religious system of the patriarchs and that of Moses were dramatic. If a religious Israelite after the time of Moses could have been transported back to Abraham’s time and witnessed Abraham (not knowing who he was) performing his religious duties, he would have called him an unconverted heathen. And though it is made clear in the Scriptures that God knew Abraham “obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws” (Genesis 26:5), those laws (the Law of God in Abraham’s time) were very different from those later laws commanded to Moses and to the Israelites at Mount Sinai.

Indeed, for Abraham’s first 99 years of life he was not circumcised, later he built altars anywhere he pleased, he raised up groves, he offered no lamb at Passover, he kept no weekly Sabbath, he attended no holy feasts, he wore no phylacteries, he married his half-sister, kept no land sabbath [that is, no Sabbatical Years], and of all things he was allied with the Canaanites.

What God did in the time of Moses was to rescind the religious requirements of the Patriarchal period in favor of stricter laws ordained in the time of Moses. The two religious systems were so completely different that if one were to mix the teachings together, utter contradiction and confusion would result. There is no compatibility at all between the two systems.

However, some people today are so conservative in their views that they will not allow God to establish new religious systems different from previous ones. They cannot believe God would ever change ritualistic or ceremonial teachings that He once gave to His people. In no way is this true biblical teaching. Certainly God does not change His mind in overall philosophical matters that dominate His character and personality (Malachi 3:6), but He most decidedly changed His own religious systems in the past when He saw fit.

The other prime example of such vast changes in God’s laws, commandments, and teachings is God’s change from the Mosaic System to the advanced Christian System which depends not on Mosaic Law, but on the merits of grace. Diversities between the Mosaic and the Christian Systems are so pronounced that the two cannot be compared in a systematic sense. There is as much difference between the teachings of Christianity and Moses as there is between the Mosaic and the Patriarchal Systems.
ELM, should have paid attention to Jesus. And the whole of God's words. (Psalm 119 of course)

Luke 16:16
"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

17. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."


Luke 24:44-45 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me." And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

God's law is eternal.

Matthew 15:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Pierac

Active Member
Nov 15, 2021
756
159
43
61
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ELM, should have paid attention to Jesus. And the whole of God's words. (Psalm 119 of course)

Luke 16:16
"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

17. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Matthew 19:17So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."


Luke 24:44-45 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me." And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

God's law is eternal.

Matthew 15:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

What part did you not understand....

There was no commanded Tithing at first. Tithing was not a law in the patriarchal period.


None of the patriarchs wore phylacteries (at least we have no record of such), but with Moses their use was commanded (Numbers 15:37–41).

The land did not have to rest every 7th year under the patriarchs (Genesis 41:34–35), but with Moses, the land rest was commanded (Leviticus 25:1–7).

Abraham married his half-sister with God’s full approval (Genesis 20:12), but this became illegal in the time of Moses (Leviticus 20:17).

Abraham was confederate with his Canaanite neighbors (Genesis 14:13), but no leagues with the Canaanites were allowed in the dispensation of Moses. Indeed, the Canaanites were to be exterminated (Deuteronomy 20:17–18).

There was also no commanded Sabbath law in the patriarchal period. However, in the time of Moses the Sabbath was first introduced as a law for Israelites to obey (Exodus 20:8; Nehemiah 9:14; Ezekiel 20:12) with stringent requirements that changed the very character of the 7th day of the week. Moses had now emerged on the scene and a profound change in religious essentials had come into existence for Israel.

The differences between the religious system of the patriarchs and that of Moses were dramatic. If a religious Israelite after the time of Moses could have been transported back to Abraham’s time and witnessed Abraham (not knowing who he was) performing his religious duties, he would have called him an unconverted heathen. And though it is made clear in the Scriptures that God knew Abraham “obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws” (Genesis 26:5), those laws (the Law of God in Abraham’s time) were very different from those later laws commanded to Moses and to the Israelites at Mount Sinai.

You follow the traditions of men.... NOT the History of GOD's will.... It clearly changed as if.... Man matters...

What part of this verse do you not understand... You think God is obligated to you...?


Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God does what he pleases... Silly child

Change #1 - Thou Shalt Not Kill​

The first example of this "change... of the law" is found in Matt. 5:21: You have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: This, of course, is a reference to what we call the sixth commandment in the order given in Ex. 20. Notice now how Christ "changes" this law.

Verse. 22: "But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother Racca (vain fellow) shall be in danger of hell fire."

That is quite a "change... of the law". It certainly wasn't metatithemi "changed" or "turned" into "lasciviousness". Instead the person who "hates his brother without a cause is now as guilty before God as a murderer!


Change #2 - Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery​

The next "you have heard it said by them of old time" is the seventh commandment. Matt. 5:27 - "Thou shalt not commit adultery:"

Once again Christ is going to demonstrate for us a "change also of the law", "not of the letter but of the spirit"; a "new covenant". He will be writing his new covenant law "not on tables of stone, but on fleshy tables of the heart". The new covenant is not a "version" of the OLD. It is an entirely NEW Covenant. Christ will show us what is meant by "when that which is perfect is come that which is in part shall be done away" (I Cor. 13:10). This "change of the law" concerning the seventh commandment will "abolish... the law of commandments contained in ordinances" (Eph. 2:15). It will "blot out the handwriting of ordinances" (Col. 2:14). "A carnal commandment will be disannulled." (Heb. 7:16-18). This "new covenant" "...hath made the first old. Now that which is old is ready to vanish away" (Heb. 8:13). All of these statements of the Apostle Paul are demonstrated in the changes in the law made by Christ here in Matt. 5. He does not kataluo (destroy) the law, but he does katargeo (abolish) the "law of commandments contained in ordinances [Eph. 2:15] by reason of the glory that excelleth" (II Cor. 3:10).

Matt. 5:27: "You have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery."

Now notice how the "law of the spirit of life" contrasts with the letter; verse 28, "But I say unto you that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Under the old covenant, your mind could be filthy so long as you didn't physically commit the act of adultery. Not so in this new covenant. If our obedience does not come from the deepest part of our being; from the heart (II Cor. 3:3) "not of the letter but of the spirit" (II Cor. 3:6), it will not even be counted as obedience or righteousness. You "have committed adultery with her already in your heart". You "by the letter... dost transgress the law" (Rom. 2:27).

Paul agrees with Christ. 'Letter only' obedience amounts to disobedience, and is no more acceptable to our heavenly father than it is to us. Any decent parent who tells a child to close the door and is obeyed with a slammed door, will immediately administer the much deserved discipline for what really amounts to disobedience.

You don't want me to get started on the NT
Your traditions of men spanking is just beginning...
 
Last edited:

ButterflyJones

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2023
1,575
1,232
113
USA
youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What part did you not understand....

There was no commanded Tithing at first. Tithing was not a law in the patriarchal period.


None of the patriarchs wore phylacteries (at least we have no record of such), but with Moses their use was commanded (Numbers 15:37–41).

The land did not have to rest every 7th year under the patriarchs (Genesis 41:34–35), but with Moses, the land rest was commanded (Leviticus 25:1–7).

Abraham married his half-sister with God’s full approval (Genesis 20:12), but this became illegal in the time of Moses (Leviticus 20:17).

Abraham was confederate with his Canaanite neighbors (Genesis 14:13), but no leagues with the Canaanites were allowed in the dispensation of Moses. Indeed, the Canaanites were to be exterminated (Deuteronomy 20:17–18).

There was also no commanded Sabbath law in the patriarchal period. However, in the time of Moses the Sabbath was first introduced as a law for Israelites to obey (Exodus 20:8; Nehemiah 9:14; Ezekiel 20:12) with stringent requirements that changed the very character of the 7th day of the week. Moses had now emerged on the scene and a profound change in religious essentials had come into existence for Israel.

The differences between the religious system of the patriarchs and that of Moses were dramatic. If a religious Israelite after the time of Moses could have been transported back to Abraham’s time and witnessed Abraham (not knowing who he was) performing his religious duties, he would have called him an unconverted heathen. And though it is made clear in the Scriptures that God knew Abraham “obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws” (Genesis 26:5), those laws (the Law of God in Abraham’s time) were very different from those later laws commanded to Moses and to the Israelites at Mount Sinai.

You follow the traditions of men.... NOT the History of GOD's will.... It clearly changed as if.... Man matters...

What part of this verse do you not understand... You think God is obligated to you...?


Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God does what he pleases... Silly child

Change #1 - Thou Shalt Not Kill​

The first example of this "change... of the law" is found in Matt. 5:21: You have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: This, of course, is a reference to what we call the sixth commandment in the order given in Ex. 20. Notice now how Christ "changes" this law.

Verse. 22: "But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother Racca (vain fellow) shall be in danger of hell fire."

That is quite a "change... of the law". It certainly wasn't metatithemi "changed" or "turned" into "lasciviousness". Instead the person who "hates his brother without a cause is now as guilty before God as a murderer!


Change #2 - Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery​

The next "you have heard it said by them of old time" is the seventh commandment. Matt. 5:27 - "Thou shalt not commit adultery:"

Once again Christ is going to demonstrate for us a "change also of the law", "not of the letter but of the spirit"; a "new covenant". He will be writing his new covenant law "not on tables of stone, but on fleshy tables of the heart". The new covenant is not a "version" of the OLD. It is an entirely NEW Covenant. Christ will show us what is meant by "when that which is perfect is come that which is in part shall be done away" (I Cor. 13:10). This "change of the law" concerning the seventh commandment will "abolish... the law of commandments contained in ordinances" (Eph. 2:15). It will "blot out the handwriting of ordinances" (Col. 2:14). "A carnal commandment will be disannulled." (Heb. 7:16-18). This "new covenant" "...hath made the first old. Now that which is old is ready to vanish away" (Heb. 8:13). All of these statements of the Apostle Paul are demonstrated in the changes in the law made by Christ here in Matt. 5. He does not kataluo (destroy) the law, but he does katargeo (abolish) the "law of commandments contained in ordinances [Eph. 2:15] by reason of the glory that excelleth" (II Cor. 3:10).

Matt. 5:27: "You have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery."

Now notice how the "law of the spirit of life" contrasts with the letter; verse 28, "But I say unto you that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Under the old covenant, your mind could be filthy so long as you didn't physically commit the act of adultery. Not so in this new covenant. If our obedience does not come from the deepest part of our being; from the heart (II Cor. 3:3) "not of the letter but of the spirit" (II Cor. 3:6), it will not even be counted as obedience or righteousness. You "have committed adultery with her already in your heart". You "by the letter... dost transgress the law" (Rom. 2:27).

Paul agrees with Christ. 'Letter only' obedience amounts to disobedience, and is no more acceptable to our heavenly father than it is to us. Any decent parent who tells a child to close the door and is obeyed with a slammed door, will immediately administer the much deserved discipline for what really amounts to disobedience.

You don't want me to get started on the NT
Your traditions of men spanking is just beginning...
Repeating error in large font doesn't make it to become true.

There is much you do not understand.

Only God can change that.
 

ButterflyJones

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2023
1,575
1,232
113
USA
youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

You see.... You are one whom Jesus speaks of in Mark...​

Mar 4:15 "These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them.

Change #1 - Thou Shalt Not Kill​

The first example of this "change... of the law" is found in Matt. 5:21: You have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: This, of course, is a reference to what we call the sixth commandment in the order given in Ex. 20. Notice now how Christ "changes" this law.

Verse. 22: "But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother Racca (vain fellow) shall be in danger of hell fire."

That is quite a "change... of the law". It certainly wasn't metatithemi "changed" or "turned" into "lasciviousness". Instead the person who "hates his brother without a cause is now as guilty before God as a murderer!


Change #2 - Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery​

The next "you have heard it said by them of old time" is the seventh commandment. Matt. 5:27 - "Thou shalt not commit adultery:"

Once again Christ is going to demonstrate for us a "change also of the law", "not of the letter but of the spirit"; a "new covenant". He will be writing his new covenant law "not on tables of stone, but on fleshy tables of the heart". The new covenant is not a "version" of the OLD. It is an entirely NEW Covenant. Christ will show us what is meant by "when that which is perfect is come that which is in part shall be done away" (I Cor. 13:10). This "change of the law" concerning the seventh commandment will "abolish... the law of commandments contained in ordinances" (Eph. 2:15). It will "blot out the handwriting of ordinances" (Col. 2:14). "A carnal commandment will be disannulled." (Heb. 7:16-18). This "new covenant" "...hath made the first old. Now that which is old is ready to vanish away" (Heb. 8:13). All of these statements of the Apostle Paul are demonstrated in the changes in the law made by Christ here in Matt. 5. He does not kataluo (destroy) the law, but he does katargeo (abolish) the "law of commandments contained in ordinances [Eph. 2:15] by reason of the glory that excelleth" (II Cor. 3:10).

Matt. 5:27: "You have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery."

Now notice how the "law of the spirit of life" contrasts with the letter; verse 28, "But I say unto you that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Under the old covenant, your mind could be filthy so long as you didn't physically commit the act of adultery. Not so in this new covenant. If our obedience does not come from the deepest part of our being; from the heart (II Cor. 3:3) "not of the letter but of the spirit" (II Cor. 3:6), it will not even be counted as obedience or righteousness. You "have committed adultery with her already in your heart". You "by the letter... dost transgress the law" (Rom. 2:27).

Paul agrees with Christ. 'Letter only' obedience amounts to disobedience, and is no more acceptable to our heavenly father than it is to us. Any decent parent who tells a child to close the door and is obeyed with a slammed door, will immediately administer the much deserved discipline for what really amounts to disobedience.

You can not see the change in the law.... because Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in you...
Bold enough yet???
Paul
Perhaps Moderators have something to say about you calling me Satanic.

I'm happy I am not deceived by the false doctrine you advocate for. And contrary to Christ's own teachings at that.

You are called least in the Kingdom of Heaven.You ignore the fact Jesus stated that as well.

Matthew 5:19
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Is Jesus description of you bold enough?
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,381
2,184
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I would question your thought of us being "able" to keep the covenant, which is established through the teaching of circumcision. For us to be circumcised of heart, is putting on Christ, he is circumcised with the circumcision made without hands by the circumcision of Christ.

Are you saying because Jesus went through the physical circumcision of his flesh when he was eight years old, that His physical circumcision is now ours if we abide in him? So what is cut off of us by Christ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.