oh now the NT was not written to Christians.
I see.
you'd love it if you could completely separate Christians and the Bible altogether.
your efforts only discredit you though.
The 10 Commandments are FOREVER
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I see.
you'd love it if you could completely separate Christians and the Bible altogether.
your efforts only discredit you though.
about the only thing you could do for me to take you even moderately seriously at this point is to give a salient explanation for Matt. 5:19.
and knock it off with the "Bible's only for the jews" horse hockey.
that is about the most desperate attempt to win a debate I've ever heard.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Obviously you have no understanding of God's written word. "Gospel" mean "good news", but clearly you don't understand that. The gospels were written to show the world the truth about Jesus Christ, not to Christians, who know Him and are in Him.
You obviously love completely separating Christians from what the Bible actually says. You obviously have no understanding of the New Covenant, so you want everyone to be Jews, enslaved to the OT law.
Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery."
Look, I have no interest in trying to explain the truth to you any further. You are a spiritual Pharisee and, in my opinion, beyond hope.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Obviously you have no understanding of the various audiences in the Bible. Your out-of-context verse was spoken to the Jews, not to Christians.
Here is that section of Matthew (explained)...
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. [Jesus, by His sacrifice, fulfilled all the law's requirements] For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. [this was achieved by Jesus' crucifixion] Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, [This was achieved when Christians were imputed righteousness] you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-19
You clearly have no understanding of the context of the Bible, Christ's sacrifice, and what that sacrifice achieved. I am sad to say that you have missed the fundamental truth of the New Covenant. You clearly don't understand the difference between the two covenants, what Christ's sacrifice accomplished, the status of Christians in God's kingdom, and many more Biblical truths. That is truly tragic!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Hey, M3n0r4h
When you have some time, read this and ponder what it says...
John 3:1-16, "Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with that person.” Jesus answered him, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘You[ must be born from above.’ The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things? [clearly this applies to you also, "menorah"]
“Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen, yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. [Get it? It doesn't say by keeping the law, it says those who believe in Christ have eternal life]
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." This excludes keeping the OT law, including the 10 commandments. That is justification by works! One gains eternal life by believing in Christ!! That is the only way.
Ephesians 2:1-10, "You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else, but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses [of the OT law], made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved [not by keeping the OT law!] — and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works [keeping the OT law], so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them."
If that is too much for you to comprehend, maybe this will be easier: "But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code. Romans 7:6
When you have some time, read this and ponder what it says...
John 3:1-16, "Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with that person.” Jesus answered him, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘You[ must be born from above.’ The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things? [clearly this applies to you also, "menorah"]
“Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen, yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. [Get it? It doesn't say by keeping the law, it says those who believe in Christ have eternal life]
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." This excludes keeping the OT law, including the 10 commandments. That is justification by works! One gains eternal life by believing in Christ!! That is the only way.
Ephesians 2:1-10, "You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else, but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses [of the OT law], made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved [not by keeping the OT law!] — and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works [keeping the OT law], so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them."
If that is too much for you to comprehend, maybe this will be easier: "But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code. Romans 7:6
Jim B
Well-Known Member
I don't deal with single, out-of-context verses. That is clearly done to distort God's written word. You should be ashamed for trying such a stunt!
And I never said that the Bible is only for Jews. That is a deliberate lie!
P.S. I have never seen horses play hockey.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Romans 3:20-26, "For no human will be justified before him by deeds prescribed by the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed and is attested by the Law and the Prophets, the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed; it was to demonstrate at the present time his own righteousness, so that he is righteous and he justifies the one who has the faith of Jesus."
Galatians 3:10, "For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the things written in the book of the law.”
Galatians 4:1-5, "My point is this: heirs, as long as they are minors, are no better than those who are enslaved, though they are the owners of all the property, but they remain under guardians and trustees until the date set by the father. So with us; while we were minors, we were enslaved to the elemental principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children."
Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery."
QED
But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed and is attested by the Law and the Prophets, the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed; it was to demonstrate at the present time his own righteousness, so that he is righteous and he justifies the one who has the faith of Jesus."
Galatians 3:10, "For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the things written in the book of the law.”
Galatians 4:1-5, "My point is this: heirs, as long as they are minors, are no better than those who are enslaved, though they are the owners of all the property, but they remain under guardians and trustees until the date set by the father. So with us; while we were minors, we were enslaved to the elemental principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children."
Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery."
QED
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Great post here by @Enoch111
post #4
We could now say that they are written to all humanity. The question which should be asked is this: "Why did God personally write those commandments on tablets of stone -- not once but twice -- when He could have simply dictated them?" And why were they repeated in two books of the Torah, when one book would have sufficed?" These facts in themselves show how extremely important they were (and still are). They are both moral and spiritual, not merely moral (as many claim).
post #4
We could now say that they are written to all humanity. The question which should be asked is this: "Why did God personally write those commandments on tablets of stone -- not once but twice -- when He could have simply dictated them?" And why were they repeated in two books of the Torah, when one book would have sufficed?" These facts in themselves show how extremely important they were (and still are). They are both moral and spiritual, not merely moral (as many claim).
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Good bye! I hope that you have learned something of God's truth and no longer are under the law.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
I thought that you said that we're done here. Matthew 5:37, All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."Great post here by @Enoch111
post #4
We could now say that they are written to all humanity. The question which should be asked is this: "Why did God personally write those commandments on tablets of stone -- not once but twice -- when He could have simply dictated them?" And why were they repeated in two books of the Torah, when one book would have sufficed?" These facts in themselves show how extremely important they were (and still are). They are both moral and spiritual, not merely moral (as many claim).
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
This recollection may help you understand some posts that deny what I'd actually being taught in scripture.
1 Corinthians 2:14-16, a natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God because they are spiritually appraised and foolishness to him.
Behold
Well-Known Member
They were kept in the Ark of the Covanent.
They are under the Mercy Seat.
Why?
Because "Grace and Truth came by Jesus The Christ"
so God goofed when He wrote them in Stone?
they were kept in the Ark due to their inestimable significance
not because they were to become obsolete.
did God place Noah and his righteous family in the Ark because He intended for that blood line to be done away with?
on the contrary, He wanted to preserve them (and the 10 Commandments) for the same reason anybody preserves anything of priceless value.
not because it is no longer needed.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
I thought that you said that we're done here. Post #2128
Matthew 5:37, "Let your word be ‘Yes, Yes’ or ‘No, No’; anything more than this comes from the evil one."
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
You read his remarks after your post that tried to reach him one last time. He cited Matthew 5:37 and underlined the reference to the evil one.
Sometimes you have to let go and realize you were talking to someone who has no respect for God's word or Christians.
When they use a single scripture out of context as a pejorative weapon, you're dealing with an unbeliever. You will never get through to that natural carnal man, mind.
As God tells you, only his Holy Spirit will change that natural man's mind.
The natural mind, man, worships self and intellect. They think the Bible is a book and they can read it and understand what is written.
As Jesus advised his Disciples should they happen on a town that does not receive the Gospel. Kick the dust from your feet and move on.
God did not move in the minds of those in that town. They will therefore consider the things of God, the Gospel, foolishness.
And they shall prove they are of that mind when they use the Gospel as a weapon against Christians.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Watch it, Behold. None of your blatant lies! I don't teach that unbelievers are sanctified AT ALL! They can't be because they are not justified. This is not the first time you've lied about me. How long has this habit of lying been pathological???
And what's this nonsense supposed to be by? Me? Looks like spliced fake news to me. Another pathological lie!
I'm sorry, I was wrong about you. You are NOT my brethren. Children of God do not sin.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, God gave them to Israel, His chosen people. All they had to do was their best at keeping them with their will-power and to love and put their trust in God, but all of the tribes, but two failed completely. And those remaining two were far from perfect.
Why this statement?
The Law has not been removed at all, it still stands, it's a foundation ! and anyone who works to undermine such is of Satan in fact.
But Grace was put over the Law !
The Law can not challenge Grace !
If their is no Grace, then the Law dominates !
So we have the Law and above the Law we have Grace ? for the Law it's self needs Grace to produce fruit !
Anyone who says the Law does not exist is an Anti-Christ ! It exist under Grace tho and that is what makes the Law worthy in the days after Jesus went to Heaven, so it is done in Heaven, so it is done on earth ? we abide in Christ Jesus, it's his will that will be done ? but before Jesus the Law was set for a reason, to direct and lead the Jews towards Jesus = Salvation ! for us to be fruitful.
Jesus cursed that Tree ? because it did not bear fruit ? it represents the Jews failure at the time ? and we see in Nathaniel The one who is worthy of a True Israelite in fact, as Jesus says so ! and what was it that Jesus said to Nathaniel, regarding what would Nathaniel see !
Their you have it ! That is what happens when one is truly born again. it's in communion with God !
Such are not Slaves of this world but set above as is the Grace of God in Christ Jesus brings fort Grace, it's an abundance ! from above ? It separates one from carnal to abide in Christ Jesus.
Now as does Grace separates the Law in much the same, it brings light into the Law one could say, because it is above the Law, because it is the Grace of God that prevail over the Law. so the Law it's self has been changed ? as it is to direct the people of God now under Grace ! but in the OT it was to lead the people of God too Christ Jesus ! Salvation. So that we are not only carnal beast of burden, for we have a Father ?
The Law was a means too an ends in the OT one could say ? but under Grace The Law is an ends to a means, one could say ?
see, here's a very valid issue with that common teaching though:
wouldn't Jesus, the Son of God, who IS God, have had more grace than anybody ever?
of course He would've, and does.
therefore, why wouldn't He have shown us how to handle the 10 Commandments with grace by not obeying them and just .... walking by the Spirit ... or not being under law .... or any of the other things people come up with?
He obeyed each and every one of the 10 as an example to us of how to live righteously.
why in the world would He then expect us to throw out EVERYTHING He taught us and cast the Law aside?
and if He HAD expected that, then why did His closest disciples obey the Sabbath Commandment the very night of His crucifixion - after so many claim the Law had been done away with?
some very valid questions to chew on there.
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