The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[BarneyFife]

You can see in John's epistles, Romans, Peter's epistles, and Jude that there were people trying to diminish the authority of God's commandments even in the 1st century. The most direct reference to those individuals can be found in Jude's letter where he mentions people who managed to infiltrate the Church with the doctrine that God's grace replaced any obligation to keep His commandments.

You can't see what I was referring to in the NT. I was not referring to the law, in general, but to the Sabbath, in particular.

 

[Cassandra]

You should be happy to see I'm not one of those who disavow the law entirely.

Oh yes. I shall carry this thought in my heart all day and be merry.

 

[Christ4Me]

Names are blotted out of (or removed from) the Book of Life. Which means that they would have been there to begin with.

Revelation 3:5 has a double negative from which the English word "not" was derived from, and so that means He would never do that.

He cannot lose any one of all the Father has given Him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

One has to wonder when Jesus said He will cast out those not abiding in Him per John 15:1-8 & Luke 12:40-49 but in Matthew 25:1-13 is key because in that very first verse, those ten virgins were likened unto the kingdom of heaven but five were foolish for being out to the market seeking to get oil for why they were not ready to go with the Bridegroom for the wedding reception & were shut out.

The wedding reception was also in that kingdom of heaven but the five that were foolish missed out on it even though they too were of the kingdom of heaven.

So that is how no one gets cast out of His kingdom but they can get cast out for not being ready for the Marriage Supper in that kingdom of heaven.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But God WROTE 10 of them with His Finger!!@That's what you aren't getting!!!! Those were singled out.

Only as evidence to the Israelites that it is indeed God instituting these laws, not Moses, not anyone else. That's what you're not getting but which the passage itself shows us! God wanted the Israelites to understand that they need to listen to Moses because He's the one telling Moses what to say and do. It's right there in the account of Mt. Sanai.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Oh yes. I shall carry this thought in my heart all day and be merry.

Please, by all means, continue to observe a literal Mosaic sabbath. Just lose the idea that you're as guilty as murdering, or stealing, or lying, or adultery if you don't.

 

[GEN2REV]

You didn't answer my questions Gen, May I ask do you observe the Sabbath, and if you do are you willing to accept the consequences for disobeying it?

Here is your post, Rob.

Thanks Gen for asking. We base our not observing the Sabbath on this passage:
(Colossians 2:16, 17) . . .do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. 17 Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.
We believe the Sabbath died with Jesus. May I ask do you observe the Sabbath, and if you do are you willing to accept the consequences for disobeying it?

Here is my response where I corrected your basis for asking the question.

Yes, that passage is grounded in verse 14 which sets the theme for what is being discussed there.

It's discussing the Ceremonial Ordinances.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and it took it out of the way, nailing it to the Cross;"
Colossians 2:14

None of the 10 Commandments are contrary, or against, us.

Verse 16-17 says, paraphrasing, 'Let no man judge you in any of these sacrificial ordinances which Christ has done away with.' Those practices were a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice to come, but Christ is the actual substance, or final outcome/purpose thereof.

This thread is about the 10 Commandments, not about the Sabbath.

Many are trying to derail this thread by focusing on the Sabbath. That is not what this thread is about.

The Sabbath is implied among the 10 Commandments. All the Commandments are still valid. It is silly to try and make the claim that ONE of them is no longer valid. Period.

 

[Cassandra]

Only as evidence to the Israelites that it is indeed God instituting these laws, not Moses, not anyone else. That's what you're not getting but which the passage itself shows us! God wanted the Israelites to understand that they need to listen to Moses because He's the one telling Moses what to say and do. It's right there in the account of Mt. Sanai.

They why didn't He write the others? Why those? I don't think you have an argument.

 

[GEN2REV]

You should be happy to see I'm not one of those who disavow the law entirely.
I want everyone here who observes the sabbath to keep doing that - just lose the 'I'm going to hell if I don't' part. Save that for the things that actually matter, you know, do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not chew tobacco in public...

I've challenged you, in this very thread, to validate your claims and you have chosen not to respond to it.

Again, quote ONE post from anybody in this thread who made the above claim.

 

[Cassandra]

Please, by all means, continue to observe a literal Mosaic sabbath. Just lose the idea that you're as guilty as murdering, or stealing, or lying, or adultery if you don't.

It's not a Mosaic Sabbath. It is a Finger of God Sabbath. and I'm not losing any ideas just because you think I should or shouldn't. Very bad idea for me.
You will never be responsible for my salvation. Means more to me than putting it in your hands. You need to worry about your own, not mine.

 

[Grailhunter]

7

Uhh, no. I've been on that merry-go-round. It doesn't play out quite like you claim.

You say you're willing to be corrected.

You literally believe you have secret knowledge about the 10 Commandments that nobody else possesses.

That's concerning.

I gave you the scriptures.....what are you thinking?

Johnny Appleseed of truth! Either it is or it is not.

I try to stay with the simple stuff....lose people pretty quick.

For example Revelation......I do not comment on it much....because in college we went over 4 interpretations of Revelation and all were pretty good. I have not finished my work on Revelation.... so I do not get into it.

Either way, show a little courage and step up and go nose to nose with me. Think humor! It will serve you well with me.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I shall carry this thought in my heart all day and be merry.

Let your sabbath observance be a remembrance of the rest you have in Christ from sin and death, and the land of eternal rest you will one day enter into. Rejoice in that, not in your obedience to not do certain things on a day of the week. I would attend a 7th day observant church if they taught the 7th day observance that way. But I'm not sure they exist! Instead, I'll be attending a church, on the sabbath, that continually sermonizes on how the 7th day is the real sabbath day and how important it is to literally keep the sabbath as Moses taught it, just as I have to not steal, and not lie, etc. No thanks! Tell me instead how the sabbath rest points to Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and how he is the rest that God the Father has established, from the foundation of the world, from our work in service to the taskmaster of sin. That I can appreciate and rejoice in with gladness. Likewise with the other observances.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's not a Mosaic Sabbath. It is a Finger of God Sabbath. and I'm not losing any ideas just because you think I should or shouldn't. Very bad idea for me.

It's only required for you to keep a sabbath day the way God told Moses it is to be kept because your conscience says you are to do that. I want you to continue to do that because for you it really is a sin to not do it. But not for me because I know the truth about the matter. And I'm not telling you the truth about it so you'll stop doing what you're doing, but so you can at least understand why I and others are not bound by conscience to have to do it.

Please respect my convictions as I respect yours. That is a higher 'law', the law of love, that far, far supersedes any law of sabbath. How we treat each other is infinitely more important than what we think and do regarding the sabbath day observance. If you get nothing else out of what I say at least get that!

 

[GEN2REV]

I have. Who was Christ referring to in John 15:2? He was speaking about Israel, presently branches connected.

You are claiming that only physical Israel are IN CHRIST. Yet another totally bogus claim from you.

John 15:6 is just a matter of fact statement. If you don't abide "in Christ" you will be cut off and throw in the fire.

That's right, abide means stay in, live in, etc. Therefore those IN CHRIST are not physical Israel.

Listen, Gid has given life to everyone. We are physically attached to this life whether believers or not.

Negative. God has NOT given Life to everyone. An absurd claim.

Rev. 3 was reflecting peiple in church who were not really believers as we see today- there are tares among us. God allows them to be there.

Wrong again. Tares are not written in the Book of Life. FAIL.

Rev. 17:8 is a fact. The elect were chosen before time and written into the Book of Life. Some of those dead people in the seven churches needed to repent, the rest were just tares who were not in the Book of Life.

And you just contradicted your immediate above claim. Like I said, you are not here to reason. You are here to argue despite any solid grounds to do so whatsoever.

 

[Christ4Me]

The issue that was addressed by the council was not whether or not the Gentiles were supposed to keep the Sabbath. The very first verse in Acts 15 shows there were Jews who were trying to force Gentiles to be circumcised to earn their salvation. That was the issue being addressed in the chapter, not whether not people should keep the Sabbath. Acts 15:21 clearly shows James stating that Moses' writings were read to the Gentiles in the synagogues on the Sabbath. Literally none of the apostles raised any questions about that being done.

It was more than about circumcision as mentioned later, but due note, this meeting was held in a church, not a Jewish synagogue.

Acts 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Acts 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Verse 21 is not part of the instructions to the Gentiles. It is a reference to the past about Moses having preached Him, scripture being read in the synagogues every sabbath day, including to the Gentiles that seek after God in the past. Verse 21 is part of the message in verses 15-18.

That is in no way testifying to Christian services being held in a Jewish synagogue. There is no way you guys can get away with it now, and certainly cannot do it back then.

All accounts in Acts are about His disciples doing missionary outreach to the Jews in their synagogues on the sabbath as that is the best time.

They cannot break bread and drink wine in holding communion in remembrance of Him in the Jewish synagogues. They cannot worship the Lord Jesus Christ without getting stoned to death, let alone put out from the synagogues.

Below is evidence of the church holding their services on Sunday, the first day of the week for when after the bounty is collected, they were t set aside a portion from the bounty for support of the missionaries in the field so that there be no special collection for them when they come as this was an order given to all churches by Paul.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Here they are on the first day of the week for the purpose of breaking bread ( communion ) in Acts which is often overlooked.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. 8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

Do consider that.

Salvation was not widely offered under the Sinai Covenant, so it's a lie to say the Sabbath was how someone got saved.

Explain the rich man's question and his purpose for why he was keeping the commandments and Jesus's own words confirming that purpose then.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Can't be a lie if Jesus confirmed that is what the Jews were keeping the commandments for in order to get eternal life.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[GEN2REV]

Either way, show a little courage and step up and go nose to nose with me. Think humor! It will serve you well with me.

I've sparred with you plenty in other threads. It's a fruitless endeavor.

If you have some new amazing take on the 10 Commandments, present it for all to see. Enlighten us!

Until then, you are just playing "I know something you don't and I'm not telling." Nobody has time for that.

Produce your findings, make your case, or forever hold your peace.

 

[Grailhunter]

7


I gave you the scriptures.....what are you thinking?

Johnny Appleseed of truth! Either it is or it is not.

I try to stay with the simple stuff....lose people pretty quick.

For example Revelation......I do not comment on it much....because in college we went over 4 interpretations of Revelation and all were pretty good. I have not finished my work on Revelation.... so I do not get into it.

I've sparred with you plenty in other threads. It's a fruitless endeavor.

If you have some new amazing take on the 10 Commandments, present it for all to see. Enlighten us!

Until then, you are just playing "I know something you don't and I'm not telling." Nobody has time for that.

Produce your findings, make your case, or forever hold your peace.

I take it that you did not read the scriptures I gave you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've challenged you, in this very thread, to validate your claims and you have chosen not to respond to it.

Again, quote ONE post from anybody in this thread who made the above claim.

The claim is only those who are truly saved bear the 'mark' of sabbath keeping.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

They why didn't He write the others? Why those? I don't think you have an argument.

That would make for a pretty heavy set of stone tablets to carry down the mountain, and to carry around in the ark forty years in the desert. The Ten are a short and sweet summary of God's law able to be known and recognized world wide and sufficient to condemn even the most stubborn and arrogant of people. And because the Israelites were able to see and hear for themselves that it got delivered to Moses by God himself they have no basis for questioning the authority of what Moses says in regard to the rest of the law delivered to him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The weekly Sabbath can not be included as a feast day

But that's just not what the Bible says:

1Then the LORD said to Moses, 2“Speak to the Israelites and say to them, ‘These are My appointed feasts, the feasts of the LORD that you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.3For six days work may be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest, a day of sacred assembly. You must not do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD.​

 

[GEN2REV]

I take it that you did not read the scriptures I gave you.

I've read every scripture in the Bible, many times.

Make your case.

Lay it out. It's not that time-consuming.

I could tell you "Read Deuteronomy." That doesn't make my case, does it?

Make your case for an alternative set of 10 Commandments, step-by-step, verse by verse. That's how this stuff works. You say you went to Bible College of some capacity. Certainly you know how it's done.

Convince us.