The 1000 year Millennium from the Bible

[Hobie]

Revelation 20:1-15
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now here's a breakdown of each verse in Revelation 20..

vs. 1 - An angel descends from heaven with a key and a chain.
vs. 2 - He binds Satan for 1000 years.
vs. 3 - During the 1000 years Satan cannot deceive the nations any more.
vs. 4 - Martyrs are resurrected to reign with Jesus Christ for 1000 years.
vs. 5a - The rest of the dead will be raised at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 6 - Those in the first resurrection will reign with Jesus for 1000 years.
vs. 7 - Satan will be loosed at the end of the 1000 years.
vs. 8 ; After the rest of the dead are raised, Satan deceives them again. There will be billions - like the sand of the sea. They are called Gog and Magog. Satan gathers them for a final battle.
vs. 9 - Satan and this host surround God's City. Fire comes down and devours them.
vs. 10 - Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet end up in this lake of fire.
vs. 11 - Before this fire falls, a final judgment occurs.
vs. 12 - All the resurrected lost are judged.
vs. 13 - Another description of the resurrected lost being judged.
vs. 14 - Death and Hell are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
vs. 15 - All the resurrected lost are cast into the lake of fire.

So what happens in the events that are shown to us here. We see that there is a good resurrection which is called the first resurrection at the beginning of the 1000 years in verses 4-6, whereas the rest of the dead are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years. Satan is bound during the 1000 years as we see in verse 3, but is loosed when the thousand years are done as we see in verse 7, and notice this is also when the rest of the dead are raised, see verse 5. Now with these dead which are not from the first resurrection, so they are the lost going to damnation, Satan gathers them for a final battle against God's City as we see in verse 8. A final judgment occurs, and then the lost are punished in the lake of fire, So who are the ones that will not see the first resurrection but come up after the 1000 years at the second one.

Christ clearly spoke of two resurrections when He said, "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in their graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation" John 5:29.

The apostle Paul also spoke of these two resurrections when he said, "there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust" in Acts 24:15. So both Jesus Christ and Paul spoke of two resurrections, the first being the resurrection of life for the just, and the second being the resurrection of damnation for the unjust. Now Christ comes in the second coming to take the saints to heaven , but Christ does not step on earth, the saints are lifted into to the air from their graves.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Both the Old and New Testaments are very clear on this issue.
1 Corinthians 15:16
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

Isaiah 26:19
Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Life will be restored to those saints who have died in the resurrection on the last day and they with those saints which are alive shall be taken up with the Lord.

 

[Hobie]

At the close of the Millennium or the 1000 years in heaven, Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The wicked dead will then be resurrected and face the final judgement, along with Satan and his angels at the Lake of Fire which will consume them and cleanse the earth of sin forever.

As Christians we know that Jesus is preparing a place in heaven for us, all Christians should agree on that, and He will come again at the Second Coming and take the saints to heaven. A few days before His death, Jesus told His disciples what He was going to do before coming back at the Second Coming:
John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So how will He come, does the scripture tells us? 40 days after His resurrection, Jesus led His disciples to a clearing and a cloud of angels came and Jesus was raised up into the cloud as we see in Acts 1.

Acts 1:6-11
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jesus ascended literally, bodily, in full view of His disciples and followers. As they watched Him go up, two angels appeared and said He would come back "in like manner" as He went up. Thus Christ's Second Coming will be literal, bodily, and visible to normal human eyes. Paul told the early believers to keep looking for the visible return of Jesus.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

There will be nothing secret about His return. Jesus told them plainly how it would be, and the Second Coming will be incredible.
Matthew 24:25-27
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

But Jesus also warned that false messiahs bring false hope would try to fool them:
Matthew 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many

But Christ Second Coming cannot fool the faithful who read His word as they are told clearly what they will see and there is nothing secret about it and how Christ will come. Christ's return will be loud and visible to the eyes of "all the tribes of the earth." When He comes and the heavenly trumpet sounds and the billions of angels come in a great cloud, no one will wake up the next day wondering what happened.

Revelation 1:7
'Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all peoples on earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.'

Matthew 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Scripture tells us that at the Second Coming, Christ comes with his angels and resurrects the saints and they rise up to the cloud of angels and Christ takes His saints to heaven and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants. Satan is left to wander the earth alone during the Millennium, as at the coming of Christ the wicked are slain and the earth is left empty and desolate for the 1,000 years and we see it in Revelation 20.

Revelation 20:1-3
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

During the millennium, the thousand-year period of which Revelation 20 shows us, Satan's will be bound or his influence over the earth will be restricted, and Christ will reign with His saints in heaven.

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Hobie]

Now scripture tells us what the saints will be doing during the 1000 years in heaven.
1 Corinthians 6:1-3
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Now Revelation 19 and 20 belong together; there is no break between these chapters. They describe Christ's coming and immediately continue with the millennium, their sequence indicating that the millennium or 1000 years begins when Christ returns.

It is only the devil and all the evil angels who will inhabit Earth during the 1,000 years. The events of these 1,000 years were foreshadowed in the scapegoat ritual of the Day of Atonement in Israel's sanctuary service. On the Day of Atonement the high priest cleansed the sanctuary with the atoning blood of the Lord's goat. Only after this atonement was fully completed did the ritual involving Azazel, the goat that symbolized Satan, begin as we see.
Leviticus 16:21-22
21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

We see that after laying his hands on its head, the high priest confessed "'all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat'", and then the scapegoat was sent into the wilderness, basically an uninhabited land.

There is no one for Satan to deceive for 1000 years. The expression, 'bottomless pit,' as is evident from other scriptures, is used to represent the earth in a state of confusion and darkness. Concerning the condition of the earth 'in the beginning,' the Bible says that it 'was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.' in Genesis 1:2. The word translated here 'Deep' is the same in that Revelation 20:3 is rendered 'Bottomless Pit', Satan is actually on the earth for the 1000 years with the desolation left behind as no one is alive as the wicked are left dead after the Second Coming and described in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 4:23-27
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

The earth is left desolate. There is no man nor bird, the earth and its cities are broken down. But God does not make a full end. This has yet to be fulfilled and will happen after the 1000 years. Only at the end of the 1,000 years does the holy city, the new Jerusalem come down out of heaven from God, prepared as 'bride adorned for her husband'..
Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[Hobie]

There are many false and mistaken beliefs on the millennium and the most prevalent is the idea of a political kingdom and rule of the Jews or the church over the nations which in effect renders the second coming of Jesus a non-event or denies He takes the saints to heaven. It basically says that after the Second Coming life here on earth will continue as we know it, with all the sin and iniquity continued, but with a 'righteous rule' under the direction of Jesus. But thats not what the Bible says happens during the 1000 years, as this would lead to the very 'false christs' that Jesus warned about..

It is during the Millennium that Christ will fulfill His promise to give the overcomers 'power over the nations'.
Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Those whom Christ raises in the first resurrection will reign with Him for a thousand years, and notice Daniel says almost the same as Revelation 20:4.
Daniel 7:22
Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

But in what sense can the saints be said to reign if they are in heaven and all the wicked are dead? Their reign will consist of involvement in an important phase of Christ's governing. This is the time of the judgment of Satan and his angels which scripture shows us.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Gods Word tells us that the saints would judge the world and even the angels that sinned, will come to pass.
1 Corinthians 6:2-3
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

So for the 1000 years, the books of all the wicked dead are open and available to the righteous, that they may be reviewed and judged. At the Second Coming of Christ, the decision as to who would constitute the redeemed and who the wicked has already been made so the saints look and give a judgement that God is just. They look at every case during the thousand years, and God's judgment will be declared righteous. So the books are for the saints to go over, but this Millennial judgment does not decide who is to be saved or lost as God makes that decision before the Second Coming, all those who were not either resurrected or translated at that point, are forever lost.

But what does scripture say of the earth during this time during the 1000 years, what is there, besides Satan and his angels and utter desolation? We see some of it in Isaiah:

Isaiah 24:1-3, 20-21
1 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.......
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

This is how the earth will be during the 1000 years as Satan has no one to deceive in the desolated wasteland, completely empty during the millennium.

 

[Hobie]

Jesus tells us the place to which He will take His followers as 'My Father's house', where there 'are many mansions,' or dwelling places. Here Jesus refers to the New Jerusalem, which does not come to this earth until the end of the 1000 years of the millennium. At the Second Coming, when the righteous "meet the Lord in the air," their destination is heaven, not the earth that they have just left. Christ does not establish His kingdom on the earth at this time, He does that at the end of the millennium.

So we look closer at those wicked slain on earth and scripture says, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." in verse 5 of Revelation 20. The unrighteous wicked are dead, and then we see, "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth" in verse 7 and 8 of Revelation 20.. So now Satan has people again that he can deceive, as it is obvious these are the unrighteous wicked dead, resurrected after the 1000 years ends.

So the wicked dead are raised to life upon the earth after the 1000 years, this is what leads to the second death at the lake of fire, as the wicked again follow Satan. And we see something else happens here, before the resurrection of the wicked dead after the 1000 years:

Revelation 21:1-3
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

We see that the city descends in Revelation 21. It has to descend before it can be surrounded in Revelation 20:7-10. The order of Revelation is not chronological but goes back to describe more events happening. Christ descends to earth again, with the saints and the New Jerusalem, for two purposes. He will end the great controversy by executing the decisions of the millennial judgment, and He will purify and renew the earth so that He can establish on it His eternal kingdom. So who is with Jesus at the close of the 1000 years, well we see something in Jude 1 that tells us..

Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

So the saints will return with Jesus, after they have gone over the books for a thousand years, and have found Gods judgement to be just. So how does it come to a close, lets continue in what is shown.

Revelation 20
King James Version (KJV)
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Satan will now have all the wicked and will deceive the nations again. And they will all fall and be deceived and gathered around the holy city where the saints and angels are with Christ. The final judgement must be executed, and they suffer the second and final death as the fire comes down from God and devours them.

 

[Hobie]

Now lets look closer to definition of the bottomless pit into which Satan was cast. The definition of which, will reveal that the lost are dead during this thousand year period. Let us look at some scriptures to see what a bottomless pit might represent.

Job 17:13-16
13 If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness. 14 I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister. 15 And where is now my hope? as for my hope, who shall see it? 16 They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust.

Psalm 30:3
3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

Proverbs 1:11-12
11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause: 12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

Isaiah 38:17-18
17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Jeremiah 41:7
7 And it was so, when they came into the midst of the city, that Ishmael the son of Nethaniah slew them, and cast them into the midst of the pit, he, and the men that were with him.

In the bible, a pit is very often associated with the grave, or a place to put the dead. A bottomless pit then, would undoubtedly represent an enormous grave, filled with countless people. If the bible then, tells us that all the lost will be slain when Christ returns the second time, which it does, then this world would be one massive grave. The dead bodies of countless millions strewn all over it, and the Bible says, where Satan is bound for this thousand years. While the saved are in heaven going over the book of life, he is here with nothing but the dead. Thus Satan can no longer deceive the nations during this thousand years, for there are no nations, or peoples to deceive.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Now lets look closer to definition of the bottomless pit into which Satan was cast. The definition of which, will reveal that the lost are dead during this thousand year period. Let us look at some scriptures to see what a bottomless pit might represent.

Dear Hobie,
I read your posts and cannot agree with your comments. You are understanding the teachings of Christ in a carnal way (outwardly) rather than in a spiritual way (inwardly).

Paul made this same statement to the Corinthian church:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Also, God's Word says that when Christ came into the world, He taught in a different language:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The only people who can understand Christ's spiritual language are the ones who have been weaned from milk. These are believers who have received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit and have been converted. For believers who have only received the Early Rain, they will remain carnal in their understanding of Christ (God's Word). Because they remain carnal, they will "fall backward, and be broken, and snared (by Satan) and taken". This is what caused the first century churches to become apostate after the deaths of the Apostles.

Consider these statements below by Christ:

Mar 18:8 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

Mar 7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Physical eyes and ears represent that a person can only understand Christ (God's Word) in a carnal and outward way. Spiritual eyes and ears represents when a person can understand Christ (God's Word) in a spiritual and inward way.

The Old Covenant of Law was carnal (outward). However, the New Covenant of Grace through Faith is spiritual (inward). When a person tries to understand the teachings of Christ under the New Covenant in a carnal way, they will not understand His teachings. But since the church (like the Corinthian church) if full of only Early Rain believers, the church remains carnal. And because the church is carnal, they cannot understand God's Word. They are places where the blind lead the blind. Because the church is blind, the church has splintered into over 2,000 different denominations and sects.

As for your understanding of the 1000 years reign, it is carnal and incorrect.

This is what the spiritual symbol "1000 years" actually means:

2Pet 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Peter is teaching about judgment. And as you will later see, John is teaching about the same subject.

When Peter compares a thousand years to a day, the “day” Peter is referring to is the Day of the Lord. Both the “Thousand Years” and the “Day of the Lord” are spiritual symbols which represent Christ’s judgment. They do not represent any specific amount of literal time - that is a carnal understanding of the symbols.

2Pet 3:10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

When Christ’s judgment arrives, it comes as a thief in the night and will destroy the “heavens” and the “earth” of the believer. The earth represents mankind’s spiritual nature. The heavens represent mankind’s mind. In the verse above, Peter is speaking about mankind’s carnal spiritual nature and carnal mind. These are the Old Heavens and the Old Earth.

When Christ comes a "second time" to a believer and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit, it will immediately be followed by the arrival of the Day of the Lord/Thousand Years. Christ's judgment will destroy the Old Heaven and the Old Earth. Once they are completely destroyed, the Elect believer will be governed by a New Heaven and a New Earth which will come from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This verse below applies to what Peter stated about the Thousand Years:

Psa 90:3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men. 4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. 5 Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.

Though the above verse is clouded in spiritual language, it is similarly teaching that the Day of the Lord is like a Thousand Years.

This verse also applies:

Ecc 6:6 Yea, though he live a Thousand Years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

The above verse is speaking of the Elect who will reign with Christ in judgment “twice told”. The first time they reign with Christ is over their own judgment (Rev 19:11-14). The second time they reign with Christ is in the final age when the lost are judged (Joel 2:1-11). During both judgments, the Elect do not see any good and all who are judged go to “one place” (Lake of Fire, destruction).

Rev chapter 20 is a continuation of chapter 19 and the thousand years taught there carries the same meaning as Peter taught.

When judgment comes to an Elect believer, Satan will be bound and not allowed to tempt the believer until they are converted. This time of judgment for the Elect believer is called the Day of the Lord. But since the believer is "born again" prior to their judgment occurring, they do not experience wrath but instead reign with Christ over their own judgment (as shown in Rev 19:11-14) as a newly born child of God. This time of judgment for the Elect is also called the 1000 years reign. After their judgment is complete, Satan will be loosed for a "little season" (shown in detail in Rev 20:7-10) to test the newly converted believer. This time of testing for a believer was "typed" by Christ when Satan came to Christ at the end of His 40 days fast. And like Christ, the converted believer will not fall for Satan's deceptions.

Also, the spiritual term "First Resurrection" represents the complete spiritual process of conversion. The full process of the First Resurrection is taught in the previous chapter (Rev 19:7-21) using the marriage analogy. It consists of the birth of the child of God and the judgment of the believer. After the believer is converted, they will have eternal salvation.

The book of Revelation says this about the Elect:

Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

The "sayings of the prophecy" teach the pathway to salvation that the Elect (the blessed) will travel to be converted and saved. Each Elect person, since the time this prophecy was written, must experience the "sayings" of the prophecies. The prophecies are not one-time "outward" world events which will occur at the literal end of this age. This is a carnal and false understanding of the prophecies. The end-time prophecies are spiritual and they have been occurring "within" the Elect for the past 1900 years. That is why the book says it is not sealed and is why the time for the prophecies are said to be "at hand". And likewise, that is why the book says Christ will "come quickly". Christ must come quickly during the lifetime of each of His Elect or they will not be saved. If Christ does not come a second time to a believer who has only received the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will not be saved in this age and will not be an heir to the promises of Abraham. They will receive their portion with the unbelievers (Luke 12:46).

Joe

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
I read your posts and cannot agree with your comments. You are understanding the teachings of Christ in a carnal way (outwardly) rather than in a spiritual way (inwardly).

Paul made this same statement to the Corinthian church:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Also, God's Word says that when Christ came into the world, He taught in a different language:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The only people who can understand Christ's spiritual language are the ones who have been weaned from milk. These are believers who have received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit and have been converted. For believers who have only received the Early Rain, they will remain carnal in their understanding of Christ (God's Word). Because they remain carnal, they will "fall backward, and be broken, and snared (by Satan) and taken". This is what caused the first century churches to become apostate after the deaths of the Apostles.

Consider these statements below by Christ:

Mar 18:8 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

Mar 7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Physical eyes and ears represent that a person can only understand Christ (God's Word) in a carnal and outward way. Spiritual eyes and ears represents when a person can understand Christ (God's Word) in a spiritual and inward way.

The Old Covenant of Law was carnal (outward). However, the New Covenant of Grace through Faith is spiritual (inward). When a person tries to understand the teachings of Christ under the New Covenant in a carnal way, they will not understand His teachings. But since the church (like the Corinthian church) if full of only Early Rain believers, the church remains carnal. And because the church is carnal, they cannot understand God's Word. They are places where the blind lead the blind. Because the church is blind, the church has splintered into over 2,000 different denominations and sects.

As for your understanding of the 1000 years reign, it is carnal and incorrect.

This is what the spiritual symbol "1000 years" actually means:

2Pet 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Peter is teaching about judgment. And as you will later see, John is teaching about the same subject.

So what do you follow, a 'spirit' language that doesnt agree with Gods Word, or what scripture shows. Need to think about that...

 

[Hobie]

We see where Jeremiah speaks of the world in this condition.

Jeremiah 25:31-33
30 Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

Jeremiah 4:23-26
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Now Isaiah not only spoke of this condition of the earth, but prophesied of the very things we saw in Revelation.

Isaiah 14:12-20
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Though all the kings, and people will be slain, and yet Satan will not be given the rest of the sleep of the dead in the bottomless pit. He will live for a thousand years alone with no one to deceive, and nothing to do but ponder the effects of the works of his own hands. He knows there is a coming implementation of the judgment for him, and his destruction at the end of the thousand years.

Ezekiel 28:11-19
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Satan will finally meet his end when its all over, and the wicked will perish, so nothing of sin will remain. While Gods people ,with much joy and happiness, will have eternal life with the Lord in the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 21:4-8
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[FaithWillDo]

So what do you follow, a 'spirit' language that doesnt agree with Gods Word, or what scripture shows. Need to think about that...

Dear Hobie,
Christ said this:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.

Christ's words are "spirit" words. Spiritual words carry meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Paul says that even he teaches using Christ's spirit words which carry meanings that are different from how man defines them. Paul says that the meaning of spirit words can be discerned by the Holy Spirit when we compare a spirit word with how it is used elsewhere in scripture (comparing spiritual things with spiritual).

Here is a simple example where Christ uses the spirit word "sword":

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word SWORD to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spirit word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who receive the Early Rain and are “called out”), will later perish by the sword (death of the carnal nature when Christ "comes again"). This spiritual death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of Fire (judgment of the carnal nature):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

This conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword when they began following him in the flesh (Early Rain of the Spirit). They then died by the SWORD when Christ came to them a "second time" and gave them the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit) and the baptism of Fire (judgment).

The baptism of the Holy Spirit gave birth to the new child of God (new holy nature and mind of Christ) and the baptism of fire destroyed the child of the devil (carnal nature and carnal mind).

In 2Peter chapter 3, Peter teaches using Christ's spirit words. In that chapter, Peter refers to the carnal nature as the old earth and the carnal mind as the old heavens. When a person is converted, their old earth and old heavens are destroyed by fire (judgment), leaving the person with only a new heavens and a new earth by which they will be governed.

2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

This truth is confirmed in Rev chapter 21 when the Elect (the Bride) are presented in their new glorified spiritual bodies as the New Jerusalem:

Rev 1:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The spirit word "sea" represents carnal mankind which is "no more". The Elect are now children of God in the Kingdom of Heaven. They are represented by the New Jerusalem (the Bride) and are described in detail by other spirit words later in the chapter.

New Jerusalem is not a literal city with streets of gold where the Elect will dwell. This is a carnal understanding of the spirit word "New Jerusalem".

Until a person has their spiritual blindness healed, they are not going to be able to understand the truth that Christ teaches in scripture.

Paul "typed" the healing of a believer's spiritual blindness by His conversion experience. Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. His blindness represented his spiritual blindness and because of such, Paul had to be led by the hand (the blind leading the blind) into Damascus (represents Old Jerusalem). Paul then spent three days (a spiritual process) in Damascus where he remained blind and could not eat (truth) or drink (blood of the New Covenant). After his three days were complete, Christ came to Paul a second time (typed by Ananias) and gave Paul the Latter Rain. It was then that Paul's spiritual blindness was healed (the scales fell off his eyes) and when Paul was able to start consuming "meat" (truth of God's Word).

The healing of the blind man in Mark 8:21-25 also teaches when a person's spiritual blindness is healed. You should read the story and see if you can understand what it is actually teaching. It matches with Paul's conversion experience.

Joe

 

[strepho]

Ezekiel chapter 44 . This is the millennium. It's time of teaching for spirituality dead. The election, are Zadok. They are priests during millennium.

Joe is correct about language barrier. About those who are carnal, its spirit of slumber.
Those led by the spirit have holy spirit.
Joe is right in documentation of Isaiah chapter 28. Thier like spirtual drunkards. Some Christian people reject the truth. They want Gods word tailored for them.

1 Corinthians chapter 2:12 now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirt which is of God;

Joe is right. He laid a foundation, and as Jesus, Zadok, I'm building on it.

Those who are led by the spirit, have spirtual discernment. Those who are carnal minded, have spirit of stupor.

The world hears thier own. It's language barrier. The holy spirit is needed to understand the meat of God's word.

Those carnal minded cant ascertain the latter rain. You need holy spirit.

The millennium, Ezekiel chapter 44, is about the Election, called the Zadok. They are priests during millennium. Thier will be discipline and teaching during millennium.

Who's in sheol??

Those who worshipped antichrist in the flesh.
And other group. They didn't repent and are spiritually polluted. They listened to traditions of men and false doctrine through thier life.

Revelation chapter 20 . The spirtualty dead will be judged by their works. Jesus is the judge. Jesus will decide who is worthy and unworthy. Get the picture.

This is where I stop.
Gods Elect, Zadok.

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
Christ said this:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.

Christ's words are "spirit" words. Spiritual words carry meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Paul says that even he teaches using Christ's spirit words which carry meanings that are different from how man defines them. Paul says that the meaning of spirit words can be discerned by the Holy Spirit when we compare a spirit word with how it is used elsewhere in scripture (comparing spiritual things with spiritual).

Here is a simple example where Christ uses the spirit word "sword":

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word SWORD to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spirit word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who receive the Early Rain and are “called out”), will later perish by the sword (death of the carnal nature when Christ "comes again"). This spiritual death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of Fire (judgment of the carnal nature):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

This conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword when they began following him in the flesh (Early Rain of the Spirit). They then died by the SWORD when Christ came to them a "second time" and gave them the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit) and the baptism of Fire (judgment).

The baptism of the Holy Spirit gave birth to the new child of God (new holy nature and mind of Christ) and the baptism of fire destroyed the child of the devil (carnal nature and carnal mind).

In 2Peter chapter 3, Peter teaches using Christ's spirit words. In that chapter, Peter refers to the carnal nature as the old earth and the carnal mind as the old heavens. When a person is converted, their old earth and old heavens are destroyed by fire (judgment), leaving the person with only a new heavens and a new earth by which they will be governed.

2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

This truth is confirmed in Rev chapter 21 when the Elect (the Bride) are presented in their new glorified spiritual bodies as the New Jerusalem:

Rev 1:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The spirit word "sea" represents carnal mankind which is "no more". The Elect are now children of God in the Kingdom of Heaven. They are represented by the New Jerusalem (the Bride) and are described in detail by other spirit words later in the chapter.

New Jerusalem is not a literal city with streets of gold where the Elect will dwell. This is a carnal understanding of the spirit word "New Jerusalem".

Until a person has their spiritual blindness healed, they are not going to be able to understand the truth that Christ teaches in scripture.

Paul "typed" the healing of a believer's spiritual blindness by His conversion experience. Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. His blindness represented his spiritual blindness and because of such, Paul had to be led by the hand (the blind leading the blind) into Damascus (represents Old Jerusalem). Paul then spent three days (a spiritual process) in Damascus where he remained blind and could not eat (truth) or drink (blood of the New Covenant). After his three days were complete, Christ came to Paul a second time (typed by Ananias) and gave Paul the Latter Rain. It was then that Paul's spiritual blindness was healed (the scales fell off his eyes) and when Paul was able to start consuming "meat" (truth of God's Word).

The healing of the blind man in Mark 8:21-25 also teaches when a person's spiritual blindness is healed. You should read the story and see if you can understand what it is actually teaching. It matches with Paul's conversion experience.

Joe

Yes, but you cannot 'spirtualize" the whole Bible away, otherwise there never was a Creation, a Garden of Eden, a worldwide Flood, etc.. to say nothing of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. All of it is thrown away and the Bible is no longer to be believed and only the Devil benefits and is pleased, not God.

 

[Hobie]

Ezekiel chapter 44 . This is the millennium. It's time of teaching for spirituality dead. The election, are Zadok. They are priests during millennium.

Joe is correct about language barrier. About those who are carnal, its spirit of slumber.
Those led by the spirit have holy spirit.
Joe is right in documentation of Isaiah chapter 28. Thier like spirtual drunkards. Some Christian people reject the truth. They want Gods word tailored for them.

1 Corinthians chapter 2:12 now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirt which is of God;

Joe is right. He laid a foundation, and as Jesus, Zadok, I'm building on it.

Those who are led by the spirit, have spirtual discernment. Those who are carnal minded, have spirit of stupor.

The world hears thier own. It's language barrier. The holy spirit is needed to understand the meat of God's word.

Those carnal minded cant ascertain the latter rain. You need holy spirit.

The millennium, Ezekiel chapter 44, is about the Election, called the Zadok. They are priests during millennium. Thier will be discipline and teaching during millennium.

Who's in sheol??

Those who worshipped antichrist in the flesh.
And other group. They didn't repent and are spiritually polluted. They listened to traditions of men and false doctrine through thier life.

Revelation chapter 20 . The spirtualty dead will be judged by their works. Jesus is the judge. Jesus will decide who is worthy and unworthy. Get the picture.

This is where I stop.
Gods Elect, Zadok.

Revelation 20 clearly is talking about the Second Coming and goes through the two resurrections which Christ Himself spoke about, so it agrees with what we are given will happen. And we see a clear description of how Christ will return:

And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'.Acts 1:9-l l.

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. And we can see that the clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him as we see in many verses.

The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels; the Lord is among them, as is Sinai, in the holy place. Psalm 68:17

...who maketh the clouds his chariots; who walketh upon the wings of the wind. Psalm 104:3

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels. 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory. Matthew 25:31

...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

And its not a local thing, or in this corner or that corner of the earth, where just a few can see His coming, but worldwide..

Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him... Revelation 1:7

...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

And its going to be not only seen but heard as Christ sends angels across the world to gather His saints...

And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

And Christ will resurrect the saints in the grave and together with the saints that are alive on the earth, they will rise and meet Him in the air and be taken to heaven to be with Him in His kingdom.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 4:16,17

All the saints will be gathered together from the earth by the angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky. This clearly is not a secret rapture or a wandering by someone claiming to be the christ somewhere on earth or out in the desert for a 1000 years. So the next question is where are Christ and the saints during the Millennium?

There are two possible answers for where the saints and Christ are during the Millennium.

Number one, is Christ is in heaven after having taken the saints to heaven at the rapture and second coming. So both Christ and the saints are in heaven for that time and the wicked are all dead, and Satan and his angels confined to Earth and no one to tempt.

Or number two, Christ and the saints are on Earth during that time and Christ holds the wicked under some restraints for 1000 years.

So what does the Bible teach, I dont think its hard to see what is a core doctrine, that the saints are taken to heaven, so clearly number one. If you say number two, then you open yourself up to any charlatan or false christ which scripture warned about, In fact, Christ Himself was the one who warned against these false comings...
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:24-27

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes, but you cannot 'spirtualize" the whole Bible away, otherwise there never was a Creation, a Garden of Eden, a worldwide Flood, etc.. to say nothing of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. All of it is thrown away and the Bible is no longer to be believed and only the Devil benefits and is pleased, not God.

Dear Hobie,
The actual history of scripture is absolutely true. The Creation in six literal days, the Garden of Eden, Noah's flood, etc. all actually happened but those events are also "types" which teach spiritual truths that are presently being fulfilled under the New Covenant.

For instance, why did Christ mention Noah's flood in His "end-time" teachings? Why did He mention Lot and His wife? What do they have to do with the "end-time"? Those events were literal and historical events but they are also "types" which teach the pathway to salvation the Elect will travel up to the time the "ends of the ages" come upon them:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as TYPES, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Here is how to understand the "type" taught by the story of Noah:

Noah and His family (a total of 8) represent one Elect person. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. It can be either positive or negative. The positive is a new child of God. The negative is a man of sin (a worsened child of the devil).

When Noah received his commission to build the ark, it represents the time when an Elect person is given the Early Rain of the Spirit and is called out from the world. This is when they enter the church. But because an Elect believer will remain carnal and spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain, they will mix their own "works" with faith. Noah typed this truth by his work of building the ark. He had not yet entered into the "rest" of Christ.

When Noah and his family entered the Ark (Christ), it represents when a called out Elect believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is also called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and is what the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost and what Paul received after being in Damascus for three days. After an Elect believer receives the Latter Rain, they are "born again" and will then enter the "rest" of Christ (no longer will they mix works with faith). This is also the time when Christ heals their spiritual blindness. After this salvation event, the Elect believer is spiritually gathered to heaven (shown in Mat 24:29-31). In other words, Christ no longer considers the Elect believer to be a part of mankind who dwells upon the earth (represents mankind's carnality) - Christ now considers them to be a "new creation" who dwells with Him in heaven. The term "earth" and "heaven" in this case represent the spiritual state of being of the person and not a literal location.

After Noah entered the ark, judgment falls to complete the conversion process for the newly born again Elect believer. This judgment is called the Day of the Lord (also the 1000 years reign) and is when judgment falls upon the Elect believer's carnality (symbolized by the "world" outside the ark). And since the Elect believer no longer dwells upon the earth where judgment falls, the Elect believer will not experience the wrath of the judgment. Instead, they will reign with Christ during the time of their own judgment (see Rev chapter 19). After the judgment is complete and the believer's carnality is completely destroyed, they are eternally converted and saved.

The story of Lot is also a "type" which teaches the same spiritual process of conversion. Lot and is wife represent "one flesh" (one Elect person) after they have received the Early Rain of the Spirit. Lot represents the head (carnal mind) and Lot's wife represents his carnal spiritual nature. Before judgment falls, Lot receives the Latter Rain and is told to flee to the mountains because judgment is coming (taught by Christ in Mat 24:16 & Luke 17:28-32). Since Lot's wife (the woman) is guilty of the transgression (1Tim 2:14), she will be destroyed (symbolized by turning into a pillar of salt). However, since Lot represents the carnal mind, his mind will not be destroyed but will be "transformed" into the mind of Christ (Rom 12:2). This transformation happens by the chastisement of Christ and is what matures the newly born babe into a mature son of God.

All the events of the Old Testament are "types" which are spiritually fulfilled under the New Covenant. As for the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, they are not prophecies of literal physical events which happen out in the world. They are prophecies that are spiritually fulfilled within each Elect person. And like the events of Noah and Lot, those prophecies teach a portion of the pathway to salvation that the Elect will travel. For that reason, Revelation says that the Elect will "keep" the sayings of the prophecies:

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Also, the prophecies were NOT SEALED even at the time John received the vision. The things the prophecies taught were already taking place within the Elect of that day. That is why John was told the "time is at hand". The prophecies are not one-time spiritual events - they are reoccurring spiritual events which have been happening within all the Elect since the prophecies were given to John.

The second coming of Christ is also understood in this "reoccurring" spiritual manner. Christ's second coming is a spiritual coming when He comes to each of His Elect to convert them. Christ's second coming happened to the Jewish Elect on the Day of Pentecost and it has been reoccurring within the lives of each of the Elect ever since.

Christ "is, was and will be coming" to all the Elect during each of their lifetimes:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev 11:17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because you have taken your great power and reigned.

Understanding the prophecies as being one-time future world events is a "carnal" understanding of the prophecies. To properly understand the prophecies, they must be spiritually understood and that takes "ears that can hear" and "eyes that can see" spiritual things.

Does any of what I have presented above make any sense to you?

Joe

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
The actual history of scripture is absolutely true. The Creation in six literal days, the Garden of Eden, Noah's flood, etc. all actually happened but those events are also "types" which teach spiritual truths that are presently being fulfilled under the New Covenant.

For instance, why did Christ mention Noah's flood in His "end-time" teachings? Why did He mention Lot and His wife? What do they have to do with the "end-time"? Those events were literal and historical events but they are also "types" which teach the pathway to salvation the Elect will travel up to the time the "ends of the ages" come upon them:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as TYPES, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Here is how to understand the "type" taught by the story of Noah:

Noah and His family (a total of 8) represent one Elect person. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. It can be either positive or negative. The positive is a new child of God. The negative is a man of sin (a worsened child of the devil).

When Noah received his commission to build the ark, it represents the time when an Elect person is given the Early Rain of the Spirit and is called out from the world. This is when they enter the church. But because an Elect believer will remain carnal and spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain, they will mix their own "works" with faith. Noah typed this truth by his work of building the ark. He had not yet entered into the "rest" of Christ.

When Noah and his family entered the Ark (Christ), it represents when a called out Elect believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is also called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and is what the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost and what Paul received after being in Damascus for three days. After an Elect believer receives the Latter Rain, they are "born again" and will then enter the "rest" of Christ (no longer will they mix works with faith). This is also the time when Christ heals their spiritual blindness. After this salvation event, the Elect believer is spiritually gathered to heaven (shown in Mat 24:29-31). In other words, Christ no longer considers the Elect believer to be a part of mankind who dwells upon the earth (represents mankind's carnality) - Christ now considers them to be a "new creation" who dwells with Him in heaven. The term "earth" and "heaven" in this case represent the spiritual state of being of the person and not a literal location.

After Noah entered the ark, judgment falls to complete the conversion process for the newly born again Elect believer. This judgment is called the Day of the Lord (also the 1000 years reign) and is when judgment falls upon the Elect believer's carnality (symbolized by the "world" outside the ark). And since the Elect believer no longer dwells upon the earth where judgment falls, the Elect believer will not experience the wrath of the judgment. Instead, they will reign with Christ during the time of their own judgment (see Rev chapter 19). After the judgment is complete and the believer's carnality is completely destroyed, they are eternally converted and saved.

The story of Lot is also a "type" which teaches the same spiritual process of conversion. Lot and is wife represent "one flesh" (one Elect person) after they have received the Early Rain of the Spirit. Lot represents the head (carnal mind) and Lot's wife represents his carnal spiritual nature. Before judgment falls, Lot receives the Latter Rain and is told to flee to the mountains because judgment is coming (taught by Christ in Mat 24:16 & Luke 17:28-32). Since Lot's wife (the woman) is guilty of the transgression (1Tim 2:14), she will be destroyed (symbolized by turning into a pillar of salt). However, since Lot represents the carnal mind, his mind will not be destroyed but will be "transformed" into the mind of Christ (Rom 12:2). This transformation happens by the chastisement of Christ and is what matures the newly born babe into a mature son of God.

All the events of the Old Testament are "types" which are spiritually fulfilled under the New Covenant. As for the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, they are not prophecies of literal physical events which happen out in the world. They are prophecies that are spiritually fulfilled within each Elect person. And like the events of Noah and Lot, those prophecies teach a portion of the pathway to salvation that the Elect will travel. For that reason, Revelation says that the Elect will "keep" the sayings of the prophecies:

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Also, the prophecies were NOT SEALED even at the time John received the vision. The things the prophecies taught were already taking place within the Elect of that day. That is why John was told the "time is at hand". The prophecies are not one-time spiritual events - they are reoccurring spiritual events which have been happening within all the Elect since the prophecies were given to John.

The second coming of Christ is also understood in this "reoccurring" spiritual manner. Christ's second coming is a spiritual coming when He comes to each of His Elect to convert them. Christ's second coming happened to the Jewish Elect on the Day of Pentecost and it has been reoccurring within the lives of each of the Elect ever since.

Christ "is, was and will be coming" to all the Elect during each of their lifetimes:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev 11:17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because you have taken your great power and reigned.

Understanding the prophecies as being one-time future world events is a "carnal" understanding of the prophecies. To properly understand the prophecies, they must be spiritually understood and that takes "ears that can hear" and "eyes that can see" spiritual things.

Does any of what I have presented above make any sense to you?

Joe

So what history shows us on what was prophesized in the Bible and is coming, is just 'spiritualized' away. Once you start down that road it opens you up to wiping out what you please or dont understand, as seems to be what you are doing. Need to go through history and see how it matches up directly to what Daniel and Revelation show us. Here is a good study on this.. http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Jrnl/EmpireMotif.pdf

 

[FaithWillDo]

So what history shows us on what was prophesized in the Bible and is coming, is just 'spiritualized' away. Once you start down that road it opens you up to wiping out what you please or dont understand, as seems to be what you are doing. Need to go through history and see how it matches up directly to what Daniel and Revelation show us. Here is a good study on this.. http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Jrnl/EmpireMotif.pdf

Dear Hobie,
I used to teach a carnal understanding of end-time prophecy many years ago but after I was converted back in 2005, all my understanding of end-time prophecy changed. When you try to understand end-time prophecy carnally, there are many scriptures that you have to ignore or change what they teach. But when you understand them spiritually (happening within a person), the contradictions disappear.

Consider this: The Old Covenant is physical. The New Covenant is spiritual. It is vital to divide the Word by the two covenants if you have any hope of understanding bible prophecy.

All the prophecies that were fulfilled under the Old Covenant were physically fulfilled. Those prophecies include Christ's birth & ministry and all of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy up until Christ was cutoff in the midst of the final week. The last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's prophecy are now being fulfilled spiritually by Christ under the New Covenant. After the last Elect person is saved and converted, Daniel's prophecy will be fulfilled.

FYI, the last 3 1/2 years begins for a person when they receive the Early Rain. It ends when they receive the Latter Rain. It is not literal time.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James believed that the "coming of the Lord draweth nigh", but you say that the Lord still has not come even to this day. Who is right? You or James?

All the scriptures that mention 3 1/2 years, time, times and a half, 1260 days or 42 months are teaching on the time an Elect believer spends between the Early and Latter Rains. This time period is also the time of Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.

Since you believe in a carnal understanding of prophecy, how do you explain that Christ said He would "come quickly"? It has been almost 2,000 years and He still has not come according to your understanding. 2,000 years is 1/3 of the time since this creation began - that is not a short period of time.

By your understanding of end-time prophecy, the prophecies have not applied to any Christian who has ever lived. However, John said that the time for the prophecy was "at hand" (happening now) and that the prophecies are not sealed. You have to ignore those verses to believe that the prophecies are only fulfilled at the end of the literal age.

Also, many verses describe Christ's coming as "is, was and will be coming". Why do you believe that Christ's coming is a future one-time event in light of these verses? You are ignoring these verses, too.

What about this verse below?

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Don't you consider yourself already saved? Why does this verse teach that Christ brings salvation with him when He comes the second time? Are you still waiting for your salvation along with all the believers who have lived the past 2,000 years?

As I have been saying, the second coming of Christ is when He comes to bring the Latter Rain of the Spirit to those who have only received the Early Rain. The Early Rain believers are the ones who are waiting for Him to return (waiting for the Bridegroom) and pour out the baptism of the Spirit. This is the moment of an Elect believer's eternal salvation.

If Christ doesn't "come again" before an Early Rain believer dies, they are not one of the Elect. Scripture says that "many are called" (Early Rain) but only a "few are chosen" (Latter Rain).

Joe

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
I used to teach a carnal understanding of end-time prophecy many years ago but after I was converted back in 2005, all my understanding of end-time prophecy changed. When you try to understand end-time prophecy carnally, there are many scriptures that you have to ignore or change what they teach. But when you understand them spiritually (happening within a person), the contradictions disappear.

Consider this: The Old Covenant is physical. The New Covenant is spiritual. It is vital to divide the Word by the two covenants if you have any hope of understanding bible prophecy.

All the prophecies that were fulfilled under the Old Covenant were physically fulfilled. Those prophecies include Christ's birth & ministry and all of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy up until Christ was cutoff in the midst of the final week. The last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's prophecy are now being fulfilled spiritually by Christ under the New Covenant. After the last Elect person is saved and converted, Daniel's prophecy will be fulfilled.

FYI, the last 3 1/2 years begins for a person when they receive the Early Rain. It ends when they receive the Latter Rain. It is not literal time.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James believed that the "coming of the Lord draweth nigh", but you say that the Lord still has not come even to this day. Who is right? You or James?

All the scriptures that mention 3 1/2 years, time, times and a half, 1260 days or 42 months are teaching on the time an Elect believer spends between the Early and Latter Rains. This time period is also the time of Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.

Since you believe in a carnal understanding of prophecy, how do you explain that Christ said He would "come quickly"? It has been almost 2,000 years and He still has not come according to your understanding. 2,000 years is 1/3 of the time since this creation began - that is not a short period of time.

By your understanding of end-time prophecy, the prophecies have not applied to any Christian who has ever lived. However, John said that the time for the prophecy was "at hand" (happening now) and that the prophecies are not sealed. You have to ignore those verses to believe that the prophecies are only fulfilled at the end of the literal age.

Also, many verses describe Christ's coming as "is, was and will be coming". Why do you believe that Christ's coming is a future one-time event in light of these verses? You are ignoring these verses, too.

What about this verse below?

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Don't you consider yourself already saved? Why does this verse teach that Christ brings salvation with him when He comes the second time? Are you still waiting for your salvation along with all the believers who have lived the past 2,000 years?

As I have been saying, the second coming of Christ is when He comes to bring the Latter Rain of the Spirit to those who have only received the Early Rain. The Early Rain believers are the ones who are waiting for Him to return (waiting for the Bridegroom) and pour out the baptism of the Spirit. This is the moment of an Elect believer's eternal salvation.

If Christ doesn't "come again" before an Early Rain believer dies, they are not one of the Elect. Scripture says that "many are called" (Early Rain) but only a "few are chosen" (Latter Rain).

Joe

History shows you that the prophecies are just as God laid out, and we see them coming now to the end which the Second Coming of Christ will be the stone that was cut without hands which Daniel prophecized.

Daniel 2:45​

“Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.”

 

[FaithWillDo]

History shows you that the prophecies are just as God laid out, and we see them coming now to the end which the Second Coming of Christ will be the stone that was cut without hands which Daniel prophecized.

Daniel 2:45​

“Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.”

Dear Hobie,
The statue with the head of gold represents carnal mankind in our "worse than the first" spiritual condition (Mat 12:43-45). This worsened spiritual condition is called a "man of sin".

Below, Christ describes when and why the man of sin (statue with the head of gold) is formed:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

This worsened spiritual condition is the end product of the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling a new believer shortly after they have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit.

This devolution of a believer into a man of sin has been happening to all new believers since Paul's death. None of the flock has been spared:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

It is after Paul's death that all the churches the Apostles started became apostate and they remain apostate even to this day.

Christ stated this about the power of Satan's deceptions:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The only reason that the very Elect (the Apostles) were not deceived is because they were converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the church. However, for unconverted believers (Early Rain only), they will, without any doubt, fall prey to Satan's spirit. Satan's deception is that strong!

Paul added this to what Christ said in Mat 24:24:

2Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion (the spirit of anti-Christ), that they should believe a lie ( believe in "another Jesus", 2Cor 11:4): 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness (mixing works with faith).

When an Elect believer has fully become a man of sin and has fully accepted Satan's "another gospel", the time will be right (signs of the time) for Christ to "come again":

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom (Satan's "another gospel) shall be preached in all the world (the believer) for a witness unto all nations (the nations are the thoughts and beliefs of the believer); and then shall the end come.

When Christ comes, He will bring the "ends of the ages" (1Cor 10:11) upon His chosen believer. This is the second coming of Christ when Christ will bring salvation to the believer (Heb 9:28). Christ brings salvation by pouring out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon the believer and then by judging the believer. This is the spiritual process of conversion (baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire, Mat 3:11).

The judgment of Christ during the conversion process is what Daniel's prophecy of the uncut stone foretells. The stone made without hands (no works from mankind) represents Christ when He destroys the man of sin. After the man of sin is destroyed, all that will remain is the newly birthed child of God.

This verse below restates Daniel's prophecy when the stone falls on the statue (man of sin). When it falls, it will grind the man of sin to powder:

Luke 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be BROKEN; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to POWDER.

But before that happens, a believer will fall upon the stone and will be "broken". This event is describing what Christ described in Mat 12:43-45 which I explained above.

It is also taught in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares. Shortly after Christ plants his seed of the Holy Spirit (the Early Rain) in a new believer, Satan will come at night (time of spiritual blindness) and plant his seed (spirit of anti-Christ) within the believer, too. After Satan does this, the believer will be "broken".

This time of being "broken" is also described in this scripture from Isaiah:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be BROKEN, and snared, and taken (by the spirit of anti-Christ).

Can you see how scripture all ties together when it is spiritually understood?

Joe

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
The statue with the head of gold represents carnal mankind in our "worse than the first" spiritual condition (Mat 12:43-45). This worsened spiritual condition is called a "man of sin".

Below, Christ describes when and why the man of sin (statue with the head of gold) is formed:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

This worsened spiritual condition is the end product of the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling a new believer shortly after they have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit.

This devolution of a believer into a man of sin has been happening to all new believers since Paul's death. None of the flock has been spared:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

It is after Paul's death that all the churches the Apostles started became apostate and they remain apostate even to this day.

Christ stated this about the power of Satan's deceptions:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The only reason that the very Elect (the Apostles) were not deceived is because they were converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the church. However, for unconverted believers (Early Rain only), they will, without any doubt, fall prey to Satan's spirit. Satan's deception is that strong!

Paul added this to what Christ said in Mat 24:24:

2Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion (the spirit of anti-Christ), that they should believe a lie ( believe in "another Jesus", 2Cor 11:4): 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness (mixing works with faith).

When an Elect believer has fully become a man of sin and has fully accepted Satan's "another gospel", the time will be right (signs of the time) for Christ to "come again":

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom (Satan's "another gospel) shall be preached in all the world (the believer) for a witness unto all nations (the nations are the thoughts and beliefs of the believer); and then shall the end come.

When Christ comes, He will bring the "ends of the ages" (1Cor 10:11) upon His chosen believer. This is the second coming of Christ when Christ will bring salvation to the believer (Heb 9:28). Christ brings salvation by pouring out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon the believer and then by judging the believer. This is the spiritual process of conversion (baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire, Mat 3:11).

The judgment of Christ during the conversion process is what Daniel's prophecy of the uncut stone foretells. The stone made without hands (no works from mankind) represents Christ when He destroys the man of sin. After the man of sin is destroyed, all that will remain is the newly birthed child of God.

This verse below restates Daniel's prophecy when the stone falls on the statue (man of sin). When it falls, it will grind the man of sin to powder:

Luke 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be BROKEN; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to POWDER.

But before that happens, a believer will fall upon the stone and will be "broken". This event is describing what Christ described in Mat 12:43-45 which I explained above.

It is also taught in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares. Shortly after Christ plants his seed of the Holy Spirit (the Early Rain) in a new believer, Satan will come at night (time of spiritual blindness) and plant his seed (spirit of anti-Christ) within the believer, too. After Satan does this, the believer will be "broken".

This time of being "broken" is also described in this scripture from Isaiah:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be BROKEN, and snared, and taken (by the spirit of anti-Christ).

Can you see how scripture all ties together when it is spiritually understood?

Joe

You can't "spiritualize" it or it then means nothing, and Satan is good at that.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You can't "spiritualize" it or it then means nothing, and Satan is good at that.

Dear Hobie,

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT, and they are life.

Paul explained further by saying that spiritual words have meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The Holy Spirit teaches to understand the meanings of spirit words by "comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual".

Isaiah's prophecy also says that when Christ comes, He will speak in "another language".

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

When Christ came, He utilized the Hebrew language when He spoke BUT He was actually speaking in His spiritual language. The Hebrew words He spoke carried different meanings. He did that so that no one but the Elect who have "eyes that can see" will understand His messages of truth.

Paul also said this:

1Cor 2:6-7 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect (the Elect): yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 8 BUT WE SPEAK THE WISDOM OF GOD IN A MYSTERY, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

The truth of God is presented in the form of a "mystery" because it is in Christ's spiritual language. Unless you can understand this language, the truth of God will remained concealed.

Hobie, you should not be so quick to dismiss what Christ, Paul and Isaiah said.

Joe