the 1335 days, the 1290 days, the 45 days

[Douggg]

Greetings Douggg and others,

I consider the 1260, 1290 and 1335 represent years, not days, similar to the 1260 of Daniel 7 and the 2300 of Daniel 8 which also represent years.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor,

I am very confident that those are days and not years. But you are entitled to your view. God bless.

Please take a look at this table I made of the 15 time of the end time frames given in the bible. P.S. Daniel 7:25 does not say 1260 days, but a time, times, half time.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The reason for the resurrection/rapture event to take place before the 2Thessalonains2:4 sit in by the Antichrist is because that action of his will trigger the day of Christ, who is our Lord, so the day of Lord.

False. The rapture at the Last Trump comes after 2nd Thess 2:4.

What we read in 1Thessalonians5:2-3, that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night would come. The unsaved world will be caught unawares, and they will be saying peace and safety, when they will be plunged into a time of destruction..

But not Christians, as we are aware that day is coming and will take the unsaved world by surprise. What we are told to do in 1Thessalonians 5:8 is be vigilant, and maintain our hope of salvation, which includes the redemption of our bodies.

I am sorry but you misunderstood with what Christ talked about.

1Th 5:1-5

• But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

Acts 1:7

• "And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."

Luke 12:39-40

• "And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
• Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

The Lord has CLEARLY not told you when all Israel is sealed since we cannot know when the Last Elect is secured. And what the Lord has told us is that Satan won't be loosed "until" all Israel is sealed. So we will not know when Satan has been loosened. What the Lord has told us is the signs to look for alerting us that the end is near, and that we should flee from an abominable Church. And the signs we need to look for is the sun, moon and stars if you have spiritual discernment what these represents!!

In 1Thessalonains5:9-11, is the resurrection/rapture event, that by grace Christians will not be appointed to the time God's wrath when the Antichrist does his audacious act of claiming to have achieved God-hood, when he sits in the temple,

Ouch. You’re trying to blur wrath and tribulation just to make your 7-year theory work and squeeze in a convenient escape hatch for the Elect. Not happening. Scripture is clear: the rapture occurs at the LAST TRUMP, on the LAST DAY—after God’s wrath is poured out on His unfaithful church, Revelation 18.

We, the Elect, will still be here—protected, standing afar off as Babylon the Great as she is being judged by wrathful God. Stop forcing Scripture to fit a system that collapses under its own contradictions.

 

[Marilyn C]

Those 7 years are not going to be enjoyable for those "left behind"
Besides those born in those 7 years, what age do you believe the youngest one will be at the beginning of the 7 years ?
BTW, hello from Adelaide :)

Children of the unsaved go into the trib. Only Children of believers in the Body of Christ go with their parent/s.

 

[Marilyn C]

Your chart still... has Jesus' future coming in the wrong place.

Per Bible Scripture about Jesus' future return and gathering of His Church on the "day of the Lord", that means at the 'end'... of the 7 years period, and at the end... of the latter 1260 days half.

[.............................7 years (2 ea. 1260 day periods)............................]
[........1260 days........................[AOD]..............1260 days......................]..2nd coming][1290 days][1335 days]

Thus the 1290 days and 1335 days happen only... after the END of the whole 7 years period. Any idea other idea than this causes conflict with the rest of the Book of Daniel, the OT prophets, and Revelation, and especially the fact that Jesus directly revealed His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER the tribulation, per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

The Hebrew and Greek word for `Day` is a period of time and a specific day. You are only seeing the specific day. The period of time is mentioned in Joel 2 and other places.

 

[Marilyn C]

The reason for the resurrection/rapture event to take place before the 2Thessalonains2:4 sit in by the Antichrist is because that action of his will trigger the day of Christ, who is our Lord, so the day of Lord.

What we read in 1Thessalonians5:2-3, that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night would come. The unsaved world will be caught unawares, and they will be saying peace and safety, when they will be plunged into a time of destruction..

But not Christians, as we are aware that day is coming and will take the unsaved world by surprise. What we are told to do in 1Thessalonians 5:8 is be vigilant, and maintain our hope of salvation, which includes the redemption of our bodies.

In 1Thessalonains5:9-11, is the resurrection/rapture event, that by grace Christians will not be appointed to the time God's wrath when the Antichrist does his audacious act of claiming to have achieved God-hood, when he sits in the temple,

The resurrection/rapture is 1Thessalonians5:10.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I believe the resurrection/rapture is the same event of 1Corinthians15:52.

Some believers place the rapture/resurrection to take place with the 7th trumpet in Revelation, thinking that is what is mean by "at the last trumpet" in 1Corinthians15:52.

I personally do not. I think is has to do with 1Thessalonians4:16, the trump of God, a series of trumpet blasts, as Jesus comes forth from heaven to circumnavigate the earth resurrecting the dead in Christ and translating the living in Christ.

View attachment 75238

Great picture there douggg,

However, the Body of Christ goes to the Lord`s own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

Remember that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God and that is in the NHNE. (Rev. 21: 2)

 

[rvmb]

Children of the unsaved go into the trib. Only Children of believers in the Body of Christ go with their parent/s.

A 17 yo child who has accepted the Gospel goes into the trib because his parent/s are unsaved ?
A 17 yo child who rejects the Gospel avoids the trib because his parent/s are saved ?

 

[rvmb]

The reason for the resurrection/rapture event to take place before the 2Thessalonains2:4 sit in by the Antichrist is because that action of his will trigger the day of Christ, who is our Lord, so the day of Lord.

What we read in 1Thessalonians5:2-3, that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night would come. The unsaved world will be caught unawares, and they will be saying peace and safety, when they will be plunged into a time of destruction..

But not Christians, as we are aware that day is coming and will take the unsaved world by surprise. What we are told to do in 1Thessalonians 5:8 is be vigilant, and maintain our hope of salvation, which includes the redemption of our bodies.

In 1Thessalonains5:9-11, is the resurrection/rapture event, that by grace Christians will not be appointed to the time God's wrath when the Antichrist does his audacious act of claiming to have achieved God-hood, when he sits in the temple,

The resurrection/rapture is 1Thessalonians5:10.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I believe the resurrection/rapture is the same event of 1Corinthians15:52.

Some believers place the rapture/resurrection to take place with the 7th trumpet in Revelation, thinking that is what is mean by "at the last trumpet" in 1Corinthians15:52.

I personally do not. I think is has to do with 1Thessalonians4:16, the trump of God, a series of trumpet blasts, as Jesus comes forth from heaven to circumnavigate the earth resurrecting the dead in Christ and translating the living in Christ.

View attachment 75238

A short response to part of your generous post.
Agree - Rapture b4 2 Thess2:4
I Believe Rapture b4 2 Thess2:3 - and that man of sin be revealed
I Believe Rapture b4 2 Thess2:2 -as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Rapture event 2 Thess2:1 - by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
I understand that "DAY OF CHRIST" is a later event to the Rapture

 

[shepherdsword]

The reason for the resurrection/rapture event to take place before the 2Thessalonains2:4 sit in by the Antichrist is because that action of his will trigger the day of Christ, who is our Lord, so the day of Lord.

What we read in 1Thessalonians5:2-3, that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night would come. The unsaved world will be caught unawares, and they will be saying peace and safety, when they will be plunged into a time of destruction..

But not Christians, as we are aware that day is coming and will take the unsaved world by surprise. What we are told to do in 1Thessalonians 5:8 is be vigilant, and maintain our hope of salvation, which includes the redemption of our bodies.

In 1Thessalonains5:9-11, is the resurrection/rapture event, that by grace Christians will not be appointed to the time God's wrath when the Antichrist does his audacious act of claiming to have achieved God-hood, when he sits in the temple,

The resurrection/rapture is 1Thessalonians5:10.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I believe the resurrection/rapture is the same event of 1Corinthians15:52.

Some believers place the rapture/resurrection to take place with the 7th trumpet in Revelation, thinking that is what is mean by "at the last trumpet" in 1Corinthians15:52.

I personally do not. I think is has to do with 1Thessalonians4:16, the trump of God, a series of trumpet blasts, as Jesus comes forth from heaven to circumnavigate the earth resurrecting the dead in Christ and translating the living in Christ.

View attachment 75238

The problem I have is that if it's at the last trump...and there are no more trumpets after the 7th, then the 7th must be the last. It also correlates with the reward and judgement of the dead after the 7th trump in Rev 11

 

[rvmb]

Great picture there douggg,

However, the Body of Christ goes to the Lord`s own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

Remember that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God and that is in the NHNE. (Rev. 21: 2)

""However, the Body of Christ goes to the Lord`s own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)"""
I also used to believe that Rev ch's 1,2 & 3 applied to believers in this current 'age'
Now a few years of having listened to many messages opposing that view from various Pastors worldwide I am now to be convinced that believers saved by the Ministry of Paul are included in early Revelation.
What verses do you rely on to support your view that early Revelation applies to saved believers today ?

 

[Marilyn C]

A 17 yo child who has accepted the Gospel goes into the trib because his parent/s are unsaved ?
A 17 yo child who rejects the Gospel avoids the trib because his parent/s are saved ?

Oh, I thought you meant children below the age of understanding.

I think of teenagers as young people not children.

Hope that clears that up.

 

[Marilyn C]

""However, the Body of Christ goes to the Lord`s own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)"""
I also used to believe that Rev ch's 1,2 & 3 applied to believers in this current 'age'
Now a few years of having listened to many messages opposing that view from various Pastors worldwide I am now to be convinced that believers saved by the Ministry of Paul are included in early Revelation.
What verses do you rely on to support your view that early Revelation applies to saved believers today ?

I believe that Rev. 1 - 3 churches are representative of those down through the centuries. History reveals this. Many of those groups are quite visible today.

And good to see another Aussie.

 

[ewq1938]

A 17 yo child who has accepted the Gospel goes into the trib because his parent/s are unsaved ?
A 17 yo child who rejects the Gospel avoids the trib because his parent/s are saved ?

Everyone enters the trib. You are either an Apostate or a persecuted Christian. If alive, those are the only two options as there is no pretrib rapture.

 

[rvmb]

Everyone enters the trib. You are either an Apostate or a persecuted Christian. If alive, those are the only two options as there is no pretrib rapture.

Pretrib Rapture, kicking & screaming we'll explain it to you on the way up :)

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Douggg,

Please take a look at this table I made of the 15 time of the end time frames given in the bible. P.S. Daniel 7:25 does not say 1260 days, but a time, times, half time.

Yes, but I equate this with 1260 days and I endorse the day for a year principle. I started with an understanding of Daniel 7 as speaking of the dominance of the Papacy from Justinian AD 529-533 to the French Revolution AD 1789-1793 and from Phocas AD 610 to a major demise of the Papacy in AD 1870 including their loss of the Papal States.

I understand that a major fulfillment of the 2300 days represents the period from the victory of Alexander the Great in BC 334-333 to the recapture of Jerusalem by the Jews in AD 1967.

I consider that these two time periods set the context to understanding of the many other time periods. I find your chart obscure and confusing.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Douggg]

I started with an understanding of Daniel 7 as speaking of the dominance of the Papacy from Justinian AD 529-533 to the French Revolution AD 1789-1793 and from Phocas AD 610 to a major demise of the Papacy in AD 1870 including their loss of the Papal States.

Trevor, are you a Seventh Day Adventist ? SDA believe that the pope/papacy is the Antichrist and also hold the day being a year principle.

I consider that these two time periods set the context to understanding of the many other time periods. I find your chart obscure and confusing.

What is there about my chart that seems confusing to you ? The like time frames are grouped together and color coded the same for clarity.

There are:
2 - 42 month periods (color coded peach)
3 - time, times, half time periods (color coded turquoise blue)
2 - 7 year periods (color coded light blue)
2 - 1260 days periods (color coded light yellow)

Also, except for the bottom three time frames, the time frames are either connected to ending the day of Jesus's return, or connected to start on day 1 of the 7 years. All rationally placed according to scripture.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Douggg,

are you a Seventh Day Adventist ? SDA believe that the pope/papacy is the Antichrist and also hold the day being a year principle.

No, my fellowship precedes the SDAs, but these two items were well expounded for many centuries before the 1800s. The futurist interpretation was introduced by two Jesuits to deflect the attention of many Protestants from the Papacy.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[ewq1938]

Pretrib Rapture, kicking & screaming we'll explain it to you on the way up :)

Might feel up but it's down.

 

[ewq1938]

Greetings again Douggg,

No, my fellowship precedes the SDAs, but these two items were well expounded for many centuries before the 1800s. The futurist interpretation was introduced by two Jesuits to deflect the attention of many Protestants from the Papacy.

Nope. Futurism existed before the RCC did but they did invent Amill and Preterism to claim the AC came long ago to deflect beliefs that the AC might be a Pope. All false teachings deny the AC in some way.

 

[rvmb]

Might feel up but it's down.

Either way, if you're saved under the Christ given Ministry to Paul then you're coming along for the ride

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings ewq1938,

Nope. Futurism existed before the RCC did but they did invent Amill and Preterism to claim the AC came long ago to deflect beliefs that the AC might be a Pope. All false teachings deny the AC in some way.

The following extract from the wiki article gives a reasonable view of the development of the futurist view and the two Jesuits are mentioned:

"During the Reformation, historicism was the dominant view. All, or nearly all of the reformers saw the pope as Antichrist. Futurism emerged after this time as a Roman Catholic response to historicism. This rise of futurism is generally associated with a Jesuit priest named Francisco Ribera (1537–1591). Ribera is said to have developed his scheme for the purpose of refuting historicism and its papal antichrist. A scheme similar to Ribera's was put forward by Italian archbishop Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621).

Another Jesuit, Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801), wrote in favor of futurism under the pen name "Ben-Ezra", and his work was banned by the Catholic Church. Until the 19th century, the futurist view was generally shunned by non-Catholics, being seen as a self-defense of the papacy against the claims of the historicist reformers.

The futurist view entered Protestant circles around 1827 through Samuel R. Maitland, librarian to the Archbishop of Canterbury. It began to expand into Protestantism in the 1800s through the teachings of John Nelson Darby and dispensationalism.

Futurism has grown in popularity in the 19th and 20th centuries, and is currently followed by millions of Christians."

Kind regards
Trevor