The 144,000 in Revelation 7

[keithr]

1. Since we- the Church today and tomorrow-are SUPPOSED to go thru much tribulation to enter the kingdom of God (Acts 14:12).

Err, Acts 14:12 says, "They called Barnabas “Jupiter”, and Paul “Mercury”, because he was the chief speaker." Perhaps you meant Acts 14:22?

 

[robert derrick]

Err, Acts 14:12 says, "They called Barnabas “Jupiter”, and Paul “Mercury”, because he was the chief speaker." Perhaps you meant Acts 14:22?

Yes, thanks.

The same was in the Old Testament. Tribulation from man in the form of temptation, deception, and persecution: the wrath of man (James 1:20), has always been allowed by God to come upon His people, in fact He expressly tells them He is the one raising up their enemies, in order to purify and prepare them for His coming...(Dan 12:10)

 

[Robert Gwin]

A Jew is not a Jew outwardly but inwardly, and believers in Jesus are the new seed of promise of Abraham, while the Jews and Israel 'after the flesh' (Romans 9:3)(1 Cor 10:18) have been cut off in unbelief. Them that believe are the new Israel of God (Eph 2:12) and His new holy nation (Ex 19:6)(1 Peter 2:9), not the nation of descendant Jews by the flesh. They have made themselves just another nation and tribe of people on the earth. There is no more 'gentile and Jew', but only believers of Jesus and the nations of the earth.

So, when James wrote to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, that of course was the scattered Christians of the day and today. I.e. the churches of God are the new 12 tribes of Israel.

Now, whether there will be an actual 144,000 Christians specially sealed outwardly in the forehead at some future time, remains to be seen.

However much more important is how Revelation 7 can apply to us that are alive now at this time.

Since we are all sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, then why not acknowledge it in prayer? We see that God seals His saints in the foreheads, when He commands the angels to hold the winds from blowing.

What a privilege those have Bob. Although I am not one of them, I certainly support them in their assignment. I appreciate their sacrifice given in behalf of Jesus' other sheep. Do you know why they were selected to be the bride of Christ?

Therefore, perhaps we should likewise seek the 'still' times of God's sealing of us by His Spirit. And know for a certainty how to "Peace, be still". And lay down beside the "still waters" and fear no evil. We should do as the Psalm commands, "Be still, and know that I am God" by knowing personally that we are sealed of God in the times of stillness, especially during times of much tribulation. (Acts 14:22)

So rather than fearing great tribulation or praying we can avoid it, we should rather seek to go through it to enter into the peace and kingdom of God.

(Not that I am praying for it to happen, of course)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

A Jew is not a Jew outwardly but inwardly, and believers in Jesus are the new seed of promise of Abraham, while the Jews and Israel 'after the flesh' (Romans 9:3)(1 Cor 10:18) have been cut off in unbelief. Them that believe are the new Israel of God (Eph 2:12) and His new holy nation (Ex 19:6)(1 Peter 2:9), not the nation of descendant Jews by the flesh. They have made themselves just another nation and tribe of people on the earth. There is no more 'gentile and Jew', but only believers of Jesus and the nations of the earth.

So, when James wrote to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, that of course was the scattered Christians of the day and today. I.e. the churches of God are the new 12 tribes of Israel.

Now, whether there will be an actual 144,000 Christians specially sealed outwardly in the forehead at some future time, remains to be seen.

However much more important is how Revelation 7 can apply to us that are alive now at this time.

Since we are all sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, then why not acknowledge it in prayer? We see that God seals His saints in the foreheads, when He commands the angels to hold the winds from blowing.

Therefore, perhaps we should likewise seek the 'still' times of God's sealing of us by His Spirit. And know for a certainty how to "Peace, be still". And lay down beside the "still waters" and fear no evil. We should do as the Psalm commands, "Be still, and know that I am God" by knowing personally that we are sealed of God in the times of stillness, especially during times of much tribulation. (Acts 14:22)

So rather than fearing great tribulation or praying we can avoid it, we should rather seek to go through it to enter into the peace and kingdom of God.

(Not that I am praying for it to happen, of course)

Romans 11 clearly says God has not cast away Israel (vs. 1, 19); but
because of Israel's unbelief (vs. 20) and blindness (vs. 7-10), God broke off branches so that the Gentiles world ciuld be grafted in.
He has a Covenant with them, has not cast them away and so their blindness continues until the fullness (numbers) of the Gentiles is complete (vs. 25). That happens at this moment: Matt. 24:14. Then an Israel will be saved (vs. 26).
12k from each tribe (Rev. 7) - and only God knows who they are. Scripture specifically names each tribe. This is not to be taken symbolically, this is literal. Also they are male virgins (Rev. 14) and this is only part of the Jews, whose veils will be lifted.
It is her clear, the distinction made between Israel ( the bloodline of the tribes) and the Christian Gentiles.
A remnant (5 million Jews) will come to Christ during the GT. Every eye will see Him and they will mourn.

 

[robert derrick]

Romans 11 clearly says God has not cast away Israel (vs. 1, 19); but
because of Israel's unbelief (vs. 20) and blindness (vs. 7-10), God broke off branches so that the Gentiles world ciuld be grafted in.
He has a Covenant with them, has not cast them away and so their blindness continues until the fullness (numbers) of the Gentiles is complete (vs. 25). That happens at this moment: Matt. 24:14. Then an Israel will be saved (vs. 26).
12k from each tribe (Rev. 7) - and only God knows who they are. Scripture specifically names each tribe. This is not to be taken symbolically, this is literal. Also they are male virgins (Rev. 14) and this is only part of the Jews, whose veils will be lifted.
It is her clear, the distinction made between Israel ( the bloodline of the tribes) and the Christian Gentiles.
A remnant (5 million Jews) will come to Christ during the GT. Every eye will see Him and they will mourn.

"God broke off branches so that the Gentiles world could be grafted in..." I had not thought it that way before, even as I had thought blindness of Israel in part (v 25) meant part or some of them, but not all. Here, however, we have blindness happening to ALL of natural Israel, that Gentiles might be graffed in (v19).

And so ALL of the old covenant, priesthood, and law of Moses was done away to bring in the New Covenant, priesthood, and law of Christ. (Heb 7:12, 8:13) As well as, ALL the old natural people of the covenant and promises made to the fathers were broken off to bring in ALL new creatures of God, "...old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...of God." (2 Cor 5:17, 18) (Amen brother, that is new to me)

This agrees with John Baptist (Matthew 3:12) that God's tree of Covenant, would be thoroughly pruned (Luke 3:17) from ALL the old natural branches, that He might bring in the new former wild ones (Christians are not 'wild ones' anymore) Hence the admonition to the newly grafted not to boast against the newly broken off, for God is able to graft the natural branches back in again (v 23), (to the New Vine (John 15)). For the new branches can likewise be broken off and not spared (v 21).

I truly thank you for your correction and instruction, you have added to me (Prov 9:9)

However (), I do not believe your assertion that natural Israel and Israelites were not cast away, but rather were not cast away forever.

1. The natural Israelite branches clearly were broken off. (v 17), which reads to me that natural Israel was cast away. Scriptural proof, or an alternative reasoning would be necessary to say the 2 are different. (I do not believe an original languages parsing would be sufficient here).

Or, there must be a distinction between 'Israel' and 'natural branches', as in nation of vs individual in...

2. Either way, you certainly stopped short in quoting of 11:2: "God hath not cast away His people which he foreknew." Which clearly is not as blanket a statement as you interpret. Which He foreknew, either applies to 'has not cast away' or to 'His people'. Grammatically, at least, the latter is makes more sense, which would also agree with (Rom 8:29), that God did foreknow ALL them that would be conformed to the image of His dear Son. (Whether Gentiles for 1st time, or Jew graffed in again)

"God hath not cast away His people which he foreknew..." Because He is able to reserve to Himself (v 4) and graft in again a remnant of natural Israelites (v 5), which Paul clearly speaks of himself, as well as all other of his kinsmen according the flesh (Rom 9:3), who abide not in unbelief...(v 23).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

"God broke off branches so that the Gentiles world could be grafted in..." I had not thought it that way before, even as I had thought blindness of Israel in part (v 25) meant part or some of them, but not all. Here, however, we have blindness happening to ALL of natural Israel, that Gentiles might be graffed in (v19).

And so ALL of the old covenant, priesthood, and law of Moses was done away to bring in the New Covenant, priesthood, and law of Christ. (Heb 7:12, 8:13) As well as, ALL the old natural people of the covenant and promises made to the fathers were broken off to bring in ALL new creatures of God, "...old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...of God." (2 Cor 5:17, 18) (Amen brother, that is new to me)

This agrees with John Baptist (Matthew 3:12) that God's tree of Covenant, would be thoroughly pruned (Luke 3:17) from ALL the old natural branches, that He might bring in the new former wild ones (Christians are not 'wild ones' anymore) Hence the admonition to the newly grafted not to boast against the newly broken off, for God is able to graft the natural branches back in again (v 23), (to the New Vine (John 15)). For the new branches can likewise be broken off and not spared (v 21).

I truly thank you for your correction and instruction, you have added to me (Prov 9:9)

However (), I do not believe your assertion that natural Israel and Israelites were not cast away, but rather were not cast away forever.

1. The natural Israelite branches clearly were broken off. (v 17), which reads to me that natural Israel was cast away. Scriptural proof, or an alternative reasoning would be necessary to say the 2 are different. (I do not believe an original languages parsing would be sufficient here).

Or, there must be a distinction between 'Israel' and 'natural branches', as in nation of vs individual in...

2. Either way, you certainly stopped short in quoting of 11:2: "God hath not cast away His people which he foreknew." Which clearly is not as blanket a statement as you interpret. Which He foreknew, either applies to 'has not cast away' or to 'His people'. Grammatically, at least, the latter is makes more sense, which would also agree with (Rom 8:29), that God did foreknow ALL them that would be conformed to the image of His dear Son. (Whether Gentiles for 1st time, or Jew graffed in again)

"God hath not cast away His people which he foreknew..." Because He is able to reserve to Himself (v 4) and graft in again a remnant of natural Israelites (v 5), which Paul clearly speaks of himself, as well as all other of his kinsmen according the flesh (Rom 9:3), who abide not in unbelief...(v 23).

He did not cast away all in entirety, just some. Those broken off at the time, like the Pharisees and places like Capernaum, Chorizan and Bethsaida. And I am sure the generations of those unbelieving Jews were cast away as well - otherwise that would conflict with salvation coming from Christ alone.
There are some 15 million Jews, only under 3% of them are Messianic Jews. That number will change soon.

 

[robert derrick]

He did not cast away all in entirety, just some. Those broken off at the time, like the Pharisees and places like Capernaum, Chorizan and Bethsaida. And I am sure the generations of those unbelieving Jews were cast away as well - otherwise that would conflict with salvation coming from Christ alone.
There are some 15 million Jews, only under 3% of them are Messianic Jews. That number will change soon.

I guess we have some sort of minor difference of thinking about these things. You provided an inspiration to me that God started with a clean slate in His New Covenant, in context of thoroughly purging His floor. At the last breath of Jesus, no person breathing on earth was at that time redeemed and saved by God. (And we know He died before the thief of promise, because He did not need His legs broken, as did the others, at the request of the very-devoted-to-law murderous hypocrite priests). At that point there were only the faithful Old Testament saints in Abraham's bosom.


Upon His resurrection believers of Jesus, whether Jew or Greek, began to be saved and graffed into the New Tree and Vine of Christ. (During His grave period, the disciples only believed Him to be a prophet, and trusted before that he would have been the one to redeem Israel (Luke 24))


And so, all living Israelites were cast away, cut off, broken off, until some began to be grafted in again, so that Paul could say some of the branches be (are still) broken off. That Must be the case, for if only some were broken off, then why did any need be grafted in again?


I also note that you have not tried to make difference between cast away and broken off, and now speak of some being cast away. I'll conclude that you originally meant that ALL Israel had not been cast away...To which I must disagree. ALL living people on earth were alienated and outside the Covenant of God at the final breath of Jesus. Which, I believe, is the exact point when the Old was done away, and the New was brought in by His blood at the cross.


Unless, of course there is Scripture speaking of some sort of 'phasing out' of the Old, and 'phasing in' of the New? (Sort of like people who say the 1st Resurrection will occur in 'phases', in order to justify a pre-trib rapture...)


Thanks again for you inspiration to me, even if you dont agree with my results from it .

 

[robert derrick]

There are some 15 million Jews, only under 3% of them are Messianic Jews. That number will change soon.

It's always good news to hear of massive conversions to Jesus...


However, I do have a question for you. (And believe me, I am not trying to be combative, but these things have been seriously on my mind for the past year. Before that time is was simply esoteric squabbling and movie-making to me. Perhaps, you are correct about these 'things which shall be hereafter' as being soon. Perhaps Dan 12:4 is a promise of God to believers, that He will provide certain inspiration and knowledge of upcoming events, so that we not be caught completely off guard.)


But, my question: When has persecution ever resulted in conversion? And not just purification as in Dan 12: 10?


There have been periods in history where it was expedient to be 'converted' to Christianity (Constantine's rule), or definitely life-saving (Catholic Pogrom). But those were pressures and persecutions against those not believing, to be converted to 'the faith'.


How is it that willfully unconverted Jews, or any other people, who have already renounced the Gospel from their hearts, will somehow be convinced to convert to Jesus, on pain of execution if they actually do? Whereas if they dont convert, they will simply remain unbelieving, deceived, and alive?


Which appears to be the case, if the prophesied rise of the 1st beast, who will be making war with the Lamb and killing His believers, is the last ditch effort of God to bring His 'national Israel' to their knees and finally at long last acknowledge His Son Jesus as their Messiah?

I.e. rather than 'convert or die', it will be 'convert and die'. Remember, we're not talking about 'deny Him or die'.


Or am I missing something here?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Upon His resurrection believers of Jesus, whether Jew or Greek, began to be saved and graffed into the New Tree and Vine of Christ. (During His grave period, the disciples only believed Him to be a prophet, and trusted before that he would have been the one to redeem Israel (Luke 24))

Jesus mission was to go minister to the Jews, gather His remnant sheep AND train the disciples to go out to the Gentile world after He was gone. So all Jews weren't broken off and cast away, a remnant remained attached to the branch. Just the unbelieving Jews were broke off. But the grafting in f the Gentiles believers didn't happen until they received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and thereafter.

I also note that you have not tried to make difference between cast away and broken off, and now speak of some being cast away. I'll conclude that you originally meant that ALL Israel had not been cast away...To which I must disagree. ALL living people on earth were alienated and outside the Covenant of God at the final breath of Jesus. Which, I believe, is the exact point when the Old was done away, and the New was brought in by His blood at the cross.

Broken off and cast away - into the fire is the same thing.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

But, my question: When has persecution ever resulted in conversion? And not just purification as in Dan 12: 10?

I always thought persecution was an act against your beliefs/ religion.
I suppose if someone witnessed you head being chopped off for believing in Christ, that may lead to their conversion - not that they would want the same. What the perpetrators are trying to do is the opposite - discourage others from believing in Christ. And so I guess it can work both ways. If I was captured and threatened, my final good deed would be to pray for them, " Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" and then ask if I could sharpen the blade as to make a clean quick cut.

How is it that willfully unconverted Jews, or any other people, who have already renounced the Gospel from their hearts, will somehow be convinced to convert to Jesus, on pain of execution if they actually do? Whereas if they dont convert, they will simply remain unbelieving, deceived, and alive?

I don't think God will save them through persecution. They or anyone else in a spiritually blind state cannot come to conversion by physical means or physical threats. The Holy Spirit converts. The veil is lifted so they can see. This usually happens on an individual basis where God works and orchestrates a series of events and people that come into your life and through certain experiences that are all different for each of us.
But this conversion of the Jews will probably not work that way. I think it may be one event that causes a massive illumination simultaneously: "Every eye will see Him."
I'm not exactly sure about that though. I know 144k will be given God's mark simultaneously and this has to happen before the catastrophes and destruction on earth occur (Rev. 7:3). And in Rev. 14 we see that they are male virgins as well.

Which appears to be the case, if the prophesied rise of the 1st beast, who will be making war with the Lamb and killing His believers, is the last ditch effort of God to bring His 'national Israel' to their knees and finally at long last acknowledge His Son Jesus as their Messiah?

We are already being persecuted. American Christians live sheltered to much of the persecution in the world. But the whole world is now being controled by Satan and his Antichrist. He is using fear and lies to control us, separate us and I believe that in the coming year we will see massive deaths that Satan will be responsible for. This whole vaccine program is diabolical and it is becoming more clear to me who is responsible and likely the Antichrist: B. G.

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus mission was to go minister to the Jews, gather His remnant sheep AND train the disciples to go out to the Gentile world after He was gone. So all Jews weren't broken off and cast away, a remnant remained attached to the branch. Just the unbelieving Jews were broke off. But the grafting in f the Gentiles believers didn't happen until they received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and thereafter.




Broken off and cast away - into the fire is the same thing.

Agreed. And I as wondering if the broken off part was actually God's doing. Scripture in John 15 nor Rom 11 doesnt really say plainly that Jesus or God are actually doing the breaking off and casting away. It is men that cast the dead branches into the fire in John 15, but a dead branch can fall away of it's own dead weight in time...?

I.e. God hath not cast away Israel...Can simply be a statement of God that it was not Himself Who did it, but those of Israel did it to themselves by rejecting His Son?

 

[Triumph1300]

I was told by JW's the 144.000 is referring to them.

 

[robert derrick]

I always thought persecution was an act against your beliefs/ religion.
I suppose if someone witnessed you head being chopped off for believing in Christ, that may lead to their conversion - not that they would want the same. What the perpetrators are trying to do is the opposite - discourage others from believing in Christ. And so I guess it can work both ways. If I was captured and threatened, my final good deed would be to pray for them, " Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" and then ask if I could sharpen the blade as to make a clean quick cut.

I don't think God will save them through persecution. They or anyone else in a spiritually blind state cannot come to conversion by physical means or physical threats. The Holy Spirit converts. The veil is lifted so they can see. This usually happens on an individual basis where God works and orchestrates a series of events and people that come into your life and through certain experiences that are all different for each of us.
But this conversion of the Jews will probably not work that way. I think it may be one event that causes a massive illumination simultaneously: "Every eye will see Him."
I'm not exactly sure about that though. I know 144k will be given God's mark simultaneously and this has to happen before the catastrophes and destruction on earth occur (Rev. 7:3). And in Rev. 14 we see that they are male virgins as well.


We are already being persecuted. American Christians live sheltered to much of the persecution in the world. But the whole world is now being controled by Satan and his Antichrist. He is using fear and lies to control us, separate us and I believe that in the coming year we will see massive deaths that Satan will be responsible for. This whole vaccine program is diabolical and it is becoming more clear to me who is responsible and likely the Antichrist: B. G.

"But this conversion of the Jews will probably not work that way. I think it may be one event that causes a massive illumination simultaneously: "Every eye will see Him."

How about the 2 witnesses in Rev 11. They could be specially sent by God that He may convert 'left-behind' Jews or Gentiles during the rise of the 1st beast.

Afterall, we know that the First beast will make war with the Christian saints. As well as the 2 witnesses and kill them. If the 1st resurrection is passed at that time, then there must be preaching and testifying of Jesus after the resurrection.

So far as an antichrist at work now, it would not at all be surprising, since there have been many antichrists already, beginning in the days of the apostles (1 John 2:18)

But so far as one of them being behind the vaccine or this china flu, I wouldnt know, since I havent participated in neither,whether with mask or flu shot, because it became politicized and used as a front for despotic shut downs and rule...So, in that regard, an antichrist scheme would not be surprising.

 

[robert derrick]

I was told by JW's the 144.000 is referring to them.

JW's say a lot of things. Very few of them Scriptural.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I was told by JW's the 144.000 is referring to them.

I know, how absurd to think that heaven is that small considering that there probably have been over 15 billion people who ever lived. What would that be, 1 out of every 100k? Really narrow is the gate in their minds. Even today there are maybe 9 million JW's. Heaven is full - no one else allowed I guess? The rest just get to live in Paradise on earth - 1 out of every 900 people. I believe in a much stronger God then they do. And what, Christianity was left to go off track _ led by Satan _ for almost 1900 years _ until God decided to send Charles Taze Russell to set us straight? Lol. Don't get me started on JW's.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

"But this conversion of the Jews will probably not work that way. I think it may be one event that causes a massive illumination simultaneously: "Every eye will see Him."

How about the 2 witnesses in Rev 11. They could be specially sent by God that He may convert 'left-behind' Jews or Gentiles during the rise of the 1st beast.

Afterall, we know that the First beast will make war with the Christian saints. As well as the 2 witnesses and kill them. If the 1st resurrection is passed at that time, then there must be preaching and testifying of Jesus after the resurrection.

So far as an antichrist at work now, it would not at all be surprising, since there have been many antichrists already, beginning in the days of the apostles (1 John 2:18)

But so far as one of them being behind the vaccine or this china flu, I wouldnt know, since I havent participated in neither,whether with mask or flu shot, because it became politicized and used as a front for despotic shut downs and rule...So, in that regard, an antichrist scheme would not be surprising.

The two witnesses will be evangelists to the Jews. We may be raptured by then. I don't have a clear set order of events. It is possible that by the time every eye sees Him, it will be too late after that. Because it would not be salvation by Grace through faith, it would be by sight ... seeing is believing. Everyone will believe that Jesus is God when they see Him come in the clouds - wouldn't they?
So I guess I'll have to retract my statement about "every eye will see him".

 

[Triumph1300]

[QUOTE="Ronald David Bruno, post: 1000236, member: 9416"Lol. Don't get me started on JW's.[/QUOTE]
Wasn’t planning too.

 

[robert derrick]

I always thought persecution was an act against your beliefs/ religion.
I suppose if someone witnessed you head being chopped off for believing in Christ, that may lead to their conversion - not that they would want the same. What the perpetrators are trying to do is the opposite - discourage others from believing in Christ. And so I guess it can work both ways. If I was captured and threatened, my final good deed would be to pray for them, " Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" and then ask if I could sharpen the blade as to make a clean quick cut.

I don't think God will save them through persecution. They or anyone else in a spiritually blind state cannot come to conversion by physical means or physical threats. The Holy Spirit converts. The veil is lifted so they can see. This usually happens on an individual basis where God works and orchestrates a series of events and people that come into your life and through certain experiences that are all different for each of us.
But this conversion of the Jews will probably not work that way. I think it may be one event that causes a massive illumination simultaneously: "Every eye will see Him."
I'm not exactly sure about that though. I know 144k will be given God's mark simultaneously and this has to happen before the catastrophes and destruction on earth occur (Rev. 7:3). And in Rev. 14 we see that they are male virgins as well.


We are already being persecuted. American Christians live sheltered to much of the persecution in the world. But the whole world is now being controled by Satan and his Antichrist. He is using fear and lies to control us, separate us and I believe that in the coming year we will see massive deaths that Satan will be responsible for. This whole vaccine program is diabolical and it is becoming more clear to me who is responsible and likely the Antichrist: B. G.

"And in Rev. 14 we see that they are male virgins as well."

This is the SECOND time you have said that. If I were not so naturally trusting in my brother of Christ, I would say you are deliberately trying to goad me into a fight.

Well, Ok, I'll bite.

I believe it is necessary to address a a very real suggestion of Scriptural contradiction in order to read Rev 14: 4 strictly physical and conclude they are all male.


I.e. why would God declare men not having sex with women means they are undefiled by them, as though ALL sex with women by men defiles them? Afterall, Heb 13:4 states that marriage is honorable and the marriage bed is undefiled. I.e. a man, nor a woman, can be defiled by having sex with each other in marriage. It is the whoremongers that are defiled.


And while they can certainly be sexually virgin, it still doesn't provide proof of their defilement, as the Scripture plainly says. For, or because they are virgins...

Is the virgin daughter of my people and of Zion a female only? (Jerem 14: 17) (Lam 2:13)

The case can easily be made that what is virginal about them is they are undefiled by false religion and ministry (James 1:27). They neither are seduced by it (Rev 2:2), nor do they ever practice it by mishandling the Word of God and thus defile the church and temple of God (1 Cor 3:17). (The context of Ch 3 being the ministry)

I mean, we have to at least consider the spiritual meaning here, since this whole book is about what saith the Spirit to the churches…(Rev 2, 3, 14:13)

 

[robert derrick]

I know, how absurd to think that heaven is that small considering that there probably have been over 15 billion people who ever lived. What would that be, 1 out of every 100k? Really narrow is the gate in their minds. Even today there are maybe 9 million JW's. Heaven is full - no one else allowed I guess? The rest just get to live in Paradise on earth - 1 out of every 900 people. I believe in a much stronger God then they do. And what, Christianity was left to go off track _ led by Satan _ for almost 1900 years _ until God decided to send Charles Taze Russell to set us straight? Lol. Don't get me started on JW's.

I like your wit and humor. On this subject we can also look at the absurdity of the Mormon Book. I have no beef with Mormon's themselves, seeing that these days they are good neighbors, even if mysteriously cliquish. Which I dont mind at all, since I am definitely not a people person.

I had a sgt friend in the military who was Mormon, and I saw his book on a table and read the cover:
The Book of Mormon
Another Testament of Jesus Christ

So, the question I had for him was, have you ever read Galatians Ch 1? You can start at Vs 6.

I didnt try to get a response from him, because he was a friend and no need to be combative. However, it taught me a lesson about the devil. He comes at us with seduction and deception; however, in the end he just cant help himself, and he will tell us plainly "Hey, look at me. I'm the devil'.

 

[robert derrick]

[QUOTE="Ronald David Bruno, post: 1000236, member: 9416"Lol. Don't get me started on JW's.

Wasn’t planning too.[/QUOTE]


Ever heard the one about the difference between male and female mosquitoes? Only the males make the buzzing sound, and only the females bite for blood. So, if you here a buzzing sound, you're ok, but if there is no sound, then...