The 144,000 in Revelation 7

[Ziggy]

The candle of the seed to shine that Light went out. Completely. Gone away forever. The earth was void of any witness of God.

That's that word "void" I was looking for.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth and the earth was void...
And the Spirit of God moved across the face of the deep.

I hear what your saying robert derrick,
I thought you meant the Light of God himself went out. I agree they let the light go out that they were called to be.
Lightbearers..

the salt had lost it's savour and was cast out...

As ye see the day approaching... I keep hearing 10 days of darkness.
who had the deadly wound and was healed...
If they suceed at filling all of our child's minds with hate, which they are trying to do with a vengence right now,

What will that generation look like with no light in it..
We have to stay vigilant for the children's sake.
Parents trying to raise their children with faith in God are under attack.

We need to put the petty stuff aside and truly stand up for each other. The days are getting darker brother..

Thank You
Hugs

 

[keithr]

He that was Israel, and is not Israel, and yet is still called Israel. (Rev 17:8)

That is not what Revelation 17:8 says!:

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."
​

The symbolic "beast" that it is referring to does not represent Israel. Most commentators believe it represents the Roman Empire, and the woman sat on the beast represents the apostate Roman Catholic church.

 

[robert derrick]

That is not what Revelation 17:8 says!:

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."
​

The symbolic "beast" that it is referring to does not represent Israel. Most commentators believe it represents the Roman Empire, and the woman sat on the beast represents the apostate Roman Catholic church.

Sure it is: The beast is anyone who was, and is not, and yet is.

I just filled in the blanks for any that fit:

Was of God, and is not of God, and yet is ministering as God.

Was saved, and is not saved, and yet is preaching to the saved.

Was the seed of promise, and is not the seed of promise, and yet is calling itself the seed of promise.

The beast is a son of perdition, who was an apostle, and is not an apostle, and yet is ministering as an apostle.

Judas did not turn back and cease to walk with the Lord as others did in John 6, but stayed in His company for personal profit as a thief and then a traitor.

Jesus knew his heart, how he had been offended with the others in heart, but was not honest about it as the others and just walk away with them, and so that is when Jesus said one of their company had a devil. And then later, Judas allowed Satan into his heart to seal himself to perdition. And what offended him, as with the others, was the necessity of drinking the Son's blood and eating His flesh.

An antichrist is anyone who was ministering the apostles' doctrine, and is not ministering the apostles' doctrine, and yet is ministering his own doctrine in Jesus' name.

They preach Jesus and Him crucified for profit and power over them that believe, but they confess not from the heart Him coming in the flesh, but only use His name and cross as a snare to lure the sheep into his false ministry: a wolf. a beast. an antichrist.

The same ones that Paul warned against that from his own company, there would be them that would not spare the flock of God:

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. (Acts 20)

Babylon the Great is the mother of all such whorish ministries, who merchandise in the souls of men and women for profit and power to dominate the believers, rather than to help them in the faith of Jesus (Rev 18:13):

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your for by faith ye stand. (2 Cor 1:24)

 

[robert derrick]

That's that word "void" I was looking for.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth and the earth was void...
And the Spirit of God moved across the face of the deep.

I hear what your saying robert derrick,
I thought you meant the Light of God himself went out. I agree they let the light go out that they were called to be.
Lightbearers..

the salt had lost it's savour and was cast out...

As ye see the day approaching... I keep hearing 10 days of darkness.
who had the deadly wound and was healed...
If they suceed at filling all of our child's minds with hate, which they are trying to do with a vengeance right now,

What will that generation look like with no light in it..
We have to stay vigilant for the children's sake.
Parents trying to raise their children with faith in God are under attack.

We need to put the petty stuff aside and truly stand up for each other. The days are getting darker brother..

Thank You
Hugs

The 1st beast could be the 1st religion made by man out of God's own religion: the Jews Religion.

The 2nd Beast that idolizes the 1st and gives it a voice could be the 2nd religion made by man out of God's true religion: the Catholic religion. Or the Christian Religion.

They are both religions made from the Old and the New Covenants the same way: putting in their own traditions, rules, and laws to replace that of God, to such a point, that they depart entirely from the faith of God to worship the works of their own hands: the idolatry of loving one's own way as that of God.

All other religions on earth have been made by man out of nothing. Islam is close, but is really just a commentary and spin of Mohammed about the Old Covenant, making Ishmael the promised seed.

I am beginning to find, that many who hold to the traditionally learned prophecy of Scripture with the seed of flesh of Old, remaining the seed of promise even during the New: I.e. the Lord returns specifically for the so called 'Jews' on earth one really final last time, to reestablish the old covenant with them in the land of Abraham and of David.

As if the Lord didn't really come good enough the first time He came on earth as a man: The Redeemer who came out of Sion already, needs to come out of Sion again, somehow to get it to work next time?

We can fall in love the prophecies and doctrines of our own making, because of all the time we spent in establishing them as true for us, so that when simple Scripture, taken simply as it is written, threatens our carefully built house of cards, we have a choice: let them fall apart to be built rightly, or blind ourselves to the scriptures and the simple reasonings of them.

Only one person as yet even tried to refute the simple questions, upon which I believe all the things I have written about Scripture prophecy:

1. Is there a Jew who is one outwardly, and is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew.
2. Is the holy olive tree of God, the Israel of God? What are the Gentiles come in to?

I do not say they are not saved, nor brethren in the Lord. But I do find it instructive.

 

[Ziggy]

1. Is there a Jew who is one outwardly, and is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew.
2. Is the holy olive tree of God, the Israel of God? What are the Gentiles come in to?

Circumcision is the covenant made with Abraham.
Abraham was not a Jew, but the Father of many Nations. Ishmael, many and Isaac, One.
Ishmael was circumcised the same day Abraham was. I believe he was 13 and Abraham was 99.
Isaac was circumcised the 8th day.
The Jews come from Isaac and the Gentiles come from Ishmael.
We are all family... eventually when you get to the root of everything.
There are others that were not of Abraham. I'm not sure right now if Abraham is Shem, Japheth, or Ham. I believe it is Shem.
So what became of the families of Ham and Japheth?

There is a verse in the very first few lines of the Bible...
And there was a river that proceeded out of Eden, which is the Throne of God, (see Revelation)
and split into 4 heads.
Noah, Japheth, Shem, Ham.
God, Adam, Eve, serpent.
Jesus, James, Peter, John
even Abraham, Sarah, Ishmael, Isaac.

Seems to be a theme of 4's

Is there a Jew that is one outwardly?
What is a Jew?
Is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew?

I think it's fairly rare in most countries to see uncircumcised males. It's almost universal perhaps in a some nations it is common to not be circumcised, I can only think of one. And that are the Greeks. But that doesn't mean all Greeks are uncircumcised.
After writing that I found this:

Germany bans religions circumcision: Why don't Christians ...
Why Don’t Christians Have To Get Circumcised?
A German court ruled on Tuesday that parents may not circumcise their sons at birth for religious reasons, because the procedure violates the child's right to bodily integrity. Both Muslims and ...

2012.. Something about a Mayan calendar rings a bell.. lol

Is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew?
That is the circumcision of the heart made without hands, an operation by God.
I think there are a lot of people walking around with stony hearts... Jews and Gentiles.

Makes our heart bleed...
Compassion, Remorse, Empathy, cut to the heart...

Was thinking..
God circumcised his heart to cover Man...
Mercy.

Just thinking out loud...
Thank You
Hugs

 

[robert derrick]

Circumcision is the covenant made with Abraham.
Abraham was not a Jew, but the Father of many Nations. Ishmael, many and Isaac, One.
Ishmael was circumcised the same day Abraham was. I believe he was 13 and Abraham was 99.
Isaac was circumcised the 8th day.
The Jews come from Isaac and the Gentiles come from Ishmael.
We are all family... eventually when you get to the root of everything.
There are others that were not of Abraham. I'm not sure right now if Abraham is Shem, Japheth, or Ham. I believe it is Shem.
So what became of the families of Ham and Japheth?

There is a verse in the very first few lines of the Bible...
And there was a river that proceeded out of Eden, which is the Throne of God, (see Revelation)
and split into 4 heads.
Noah, Japheth, Shem, Ham.
God, Adam, Eve, serpent.
Jesus, James, Peter, John
even Abraham, Sarah, Ishmael, Isaac.

Seems to be a theme of 4's

Is there a Jew that is one outwardly?
What is a Jew?
Is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew?

I think it's fairly rare in most countries to see uncircumcised males. It's almost universal perhaps in a some nations it is common to not be circumcised, I can only think of one. And that are the Greeks. But that doesn't mean all Greeks are uncircumcised.
After writing that I found this:

Germany bans religions circumcision: Why don't Christians ...
Why Don’t Christians Have To Get Circumcised?
A German court ruled on Tuesday that parents may not circumcise their sons at birth for religious reasons, because the procedure violates the child's right to bodily integrity. Both Muslims and ...

2012.. Something about a Mayan calendar rings a bell.. lol

Is there one circumcised inwardly that is not a Jew?
That is the circumcision of the heart made without hands, an operation by God.
I think there are a lot of people walking around with stony hearts... Jews and Gentiles.

Makes our heart bleed...
Compassion, Remorse, Empathy, cut to the heart...

Was thinking..
God circumcised his heart to cover Man...
Mercy.

Just thinking out loud...
Thank You
Hugs

The Jews come from Isaac and the Gentiles come from Ishmael.

Arab Gentiles came from Ishmael. Plenty of Gentiles around the world not from Abraham.

A Jew was the promised seed of the flesh of Abraham and Sarah, first being called such instead of the children of Israel in 2 Kings with the siege of Assyria on Jerusalem.

What is a Jew?

A Jew is not all those circumcised inwardly in the Spirit by faith of Jesus. Them that call themselves Jews by outward circumcision, as in Jews of the promised seed of old, are liars. (Rev 2:9, 3:9)

I think there are a lot of people walking around with stony hearts... Jews and Gentiles.

If what I wrote is true, then the only ones with stony hearts are all the uncircumcised Gentiles that know not God, which includes them that call themselves Jews by outward circumcision only.

I think it's fairly rare in most countries to see uncircumcised males.

The discussion in Scripture pertaining to circumcision and Jews is that with covenant and law of God, not a human custom learned from an ancient practise going back to Abraham.

It is comparable to not eating pork due to the law of Moses vs not eating pork as a healthy practise.

 

[Ziggy]

A Jew was the promised seed of the flesh of Abraham and Sarah, first being called such instead of the children of Israel in 2 Kings with the siege of Assyria on Jerusalem.

And they got a new name again in the Book of Acts: Christian. With the seige on Jerusalem by Rome.
Funny how history kind of repeats itself.

Thank You robert
Hugs

 

[robert derrick]

And they got a new name again in the Book of Acts: Christian. With the seige on Jerusalem by Rome.
Funny how history kind of repeats itself.

Thank You robert
Hugs

Thank you. They got a new name again. From Hebrew to Israel to Jew. I like that. Even as the Lord God Almighty got a new name Jehovah, and then Jesus, which Jehovah would name from His own mouth:

"And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name." (Isaiah 62)

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1)

The created-christ believers, who falsely worship and idolize the name Jehovah, never had an answer for this.

They actually try to make difference between the LORD and the Lord. As though the Lord is a littler Lord than the big LORD. I kid you not.

Watch them that bind themselves into blindness and foolishness for the sake of false doctrine.

 

[quietthinker]

That's that word "void" I was looking for.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth and the earth was void...
And the Spirit of God moved across the face of the deep.

I hear what your saying robert derrick,
I thought you meant the Light of God himself went out. I agree they let the light go out that they were called to be.
Lightbearers..

the salt had lost it's savour and was cast out...

As ye see the day approaching... I keep hearing 10 days of darkness.
who had the deadly wound and was healed...
If they suceed at filling all of our child's minds with hate, which they are trying to do with a vengence right now,

What will that generation look like with no light in it..
We have to stay vigilant for the children's sake.
Parents trying to raise their children with faith in God are under attack.

We need to put the petty stuff aside and truly stand up for each other. The days are getting darker brother..

Thank You
Hugs

You might consider that numbers have a significance not inherent in the number itself....for example, 7 or 3. You could probably figure that one out ...and then there is 4 and 6 and 12. Chew on it some Ziggy, it's quiet interesting

 

[robert derrick]

You might consider that numbers have a significance not inherent in the number itself....for example, 7 or 3. You could probably figure that one out ...and then there is 4 and 6 and 12. Chew on it some Ziggy, it's quiet interesting

And don't forget 1, 5, & 8:

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come...And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth. (Rev 17)

This isn't a numbers game like Craps.

144,000 thousand could be the last Christians ministering Jesus during the reign of the last beast, before the Lord's return, but it is certainly the sum total resurrected to stand with Jesus upon mount Sion in Rev 14.

 

[quietthinker]

And don't forget 1, 5, & 8:

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come...And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth. (Rev 17)

This isn't a numbers game like Craps.

144,000 thousand could be the last Christians ministering Jesus during the reign of the last beast, before the Lord's return, but it is certainly the sum total resurrected to stand with Jesus upon mount Sion in Rev 14.

144 is symbolic just as 12 is. Here is an example re numbers being symbolic....the 4 angels standing at the 4 corners of the earth holding back the 4 winds. Firstly, the Earth has no corners; it is a globe not a cube therefore 4 representative of North, South, East and West, in other words everywhere, the whole planet. The winds are strife....strife everywhere on the planet and the angels are not just 4, it means all the angels holding back all the strife, everywhere.

This opens windows on how one reads and unless one is content with primitive and inaccurate understanding of these things, this principle needs to be considered.