The 9 incredible verses of Romans 6:15-23

[FHII]

Truly, you are NOT alone in this ... IMO, you have missed the whole point of Rom 6:15-23.

Paul is challenging them to make the right CHOICE of who their master will really be: sin or obedience.
Also, he is actually saying: its time to PROVE that you are slaves of God, obedience, and righteousness.

You are missing the point of how tactful Paul is.

You need to read between the lines a little, and use discernment.

Really?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delievered you.

The rest of the passage reads like this too... That is, past tense. They were servants of sin but now are freed from it. This doesn't sound like a challenging statement to me, but a celebration that they have overcome it. I don't get that from reading between the lines, but reading the what the lines actually say.

Again, I have no problem with a "call to righteousness"... Plenty of them in the New Testament. Romans 6 isn't one of them, but even if you want to use it as such, that's fine. Now that I've addressed your post, I have two questions for you:

1. If we are to prove our obedience to God, how do we do it? (Spell it out for me.... Let me hear your explanation as if you were telling someone about it for the first time).

2. What has this to do with OSAS or more importantly, predestination?

The doctrine of predestination leads to spiritual pride and elitism, resulting in the unkindness displayed in your posts.

Day, I don't want to even address the rest of your post, but I'd like to address this. The doctrine of predestination may have the potential out of ignorance (that is, lack of full knowledge) to product spritual pride, but no more so than the doctrine of works or any other doctrine.

Peter told his followers (and us as well) in 1 peter 2:9 that they were are royal priesthood, a holy nation and a chosen generation... If that all that he said, can you see that leading to spiritual pride?

Much more so the doctrine of works, which the Bible mentions but doesn't teach under the new law... I don't hang around such people, but I have in the past and I hear of those who do their best to follow the law and scoff at those who don't do it. I see it alot in one form or another on this board as well!

What is it exactly that you believe the Bible teaches about predestination that leads to spiritual pride?

 

[Webers_Home]

A doctrine that causes division among the followers of Jesus cannot
be of God.

Followers of Jesus? You mean people wearing the Christian label?

†. Matt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in
thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I
never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

That passage doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists, nor
Muslims. No, it targets people claiming to have prophesied in "thy name"
and to have exorcised demons in "thy name" and to have done many
wonderful works in "thy name". In other words: the Lord's statement targets
Christians-- and not just your average rank and file pew warmers either, no,
but rather, it targets the cream of the crop: the movers and the shakers of
the Christian world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, their
perseverance, their love, and their dedication.

Those workers of iniquity sincerely think themselves Jesus' followers; but he
thinks them not his followers; but rather, his opponents. Well; according to
Matt 13:24-30 and Matt 13:37-42, that's all coming to an end; and one day
there'll be no more tares among the wheat.

in Matt 11:25 Jesus thanked the Father for revealing the secrets of his
kingdom to children while hiding them from the self proclaimed "wise ones".

Doesn't that make the babes privy to secret knowledge? (cf. Matt 13:10-11)


Buen Camino
/

 

[williemac]

Truly, you are NOT alone in this ... IMO, you have missed the whole point of Rom 6:15-23.

Paul is challenging them to make the right CHOICE of who their master will really be: sin or obedience.
Also, he is actually saying: its time to PROVE that you are slaves of God, obedience, and righteousness.

You are missing the point of how tactful Paul is.

You need to read between the lines a little, and use discernment.

The problem that I see here is that you are drawing a conclusion (or they who are teaching you are) that does not take into consideration the entire context. If this was the only thing Paul wrote to the Romans, then we could come to the same conclusion ourselves. However, what about the first part of that chapter, for starters?
In vs.3-6, Paul speaks of how the old man has been crucified with Christ, so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we are no longer slaves of sin. In vs.7, he states that he who has died has been freed from sin. vs8 continues to say that if we died with Him we shall also live with Him. He goes on to give them the logical argument that since we have died to sin, we should consider ourselves alive to God. He says to "reckon" ourselves dead to sin.

What you are not getting is that Paul is talking about having a mindset that is profitable and putting off the mindset that is not in line with what has been accomplished in us through faith in Jesus. He is not, I repeat ...NOT telling them that sin can undo what has been done by faith. Or do you think he intended to contradict his conclusion given in 5:1? "Therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God."

In fact, why not head over to chapter 7? This is still part of the context. In vs.5,8,11, Paul relays the thing that actually produces sinful desires within us...THE LAW! His conclusion about the law, in vs.7, is that the law is good and holy. However, he assures us that the law no longer has the power to condemn us. This we can see if we go on. In vs.16 and 22, he gives his mindset about the law, that it is good and that he is in agreement with it. But then he admits he still has sin in his life. However, because of his mindset, he is no longer identified with the sin. (vs.17,20), where he states that it is no longer I who is sinning, but sin that is in me. His conclusion in vs.25 is that in his mind he is serving the law, but in his flesh, the law of sin.

Therefore there is now no condemnation (8:1), if we walk in the Spirit. But what is walking in the spirit? In vs.5-7, he tells us. It is a mindset. And where do we find this mindset? In chapter 7. This is why 8:1 has the word "therefore".

All of these thing that you are using to take away our peace and replace it with condemnation, are not about what we do or don't do. They are about having a profitable mindset; one that lines up with what has been accomplished in us and for us at Calvary.

These things all have to do with what our life in this age looks like. They do not determine our eternal destiny. Paul has made that absolutely clear in the rest of this letter, as well as in other letters. Our destiny is determined by our acceptance of the free gift of life (faith). This can be confirmed in ch.5, were the word 'free" is found in several places as well as the word "gift".

So do you suppose he is contradicting himself by telling them that this free gift is available only if they earn it through works? Do you suppose that the sacrifice for sin applies only if we quit sinning? Do you suppose that the old man can come down off the cross if we sin? Do you suppose that forgiveness is available only if there is nothing to forgive?

But what if we fail to have a proper mindset? I would be careful with that one, for those who teach others may well be held responsible for using the law to condemn, thus contaminating whatever peace, joy, and love that God has placed in their heart, and hurling them into an unhealthy mindset whereby they identify themselves with the old man rather than the new. It is the old man in us that carries the sin nature, and this man is dead. We are only condemned by his sin if we take him down from the cross. He got there by faith. He comes down by unbelief. The pathway to a righteous walk begins when we identify ourselves with the new man (putting him on, Eph.4:24).

Sin no longer has dominion over us. How is that true? Because we are no longer under the law. The law is the only thing that can be used to condemn a person. Therefore, It contaminates a healthy mindset. This is why it is called "leaven".

The only way you or anyone can threaten others with condemnation is if you are using the law. You might want to filter your warnings through the letter to the Galatians. "Who has bewitched you?" (Paul's question)

 

[John Zain]

They were servants of sin but now are freed from it.
This doesn't sound like a challenging statement to me, but a celebration that they have overcome it.

Then why all the talk about them sinning (6:15 & 6:16)?

And why the charge that they become slaves of obedience (6:19),
when he says the opposite of this is slavery to sin (6:16)?

And why all the talk of sin leading to eternal death (6;16, 6:21, 6:23)?

You just don't comprehend Paul's method of writing to this strange church,
which was not founded by him.

Sorry, but I'm done trying to explain it to you.

 

[FHII]

Then why all the talk about them sinning (6:15 & 6:16)?

And why the charge that they become slaves of obedience (6:19),
when he says the opposite of this is slavery to sin (6:16)?

And why all the talk of sin leading to eternal death (6;16, 6:21, 6:23)?

You just don't comprehend Paul's method of writing to this strange church,
which was not founded by him.

Sorry, but I'm done trying to explain it to you.

Well then praise God you are done.... Paul didn't do most of that which you said he did, so I'll just read what it says and go with that. I beg to differ.... I comprehend it very well.
Amen Williemac.... I agree with what you said and kinda said the same thing earlier.... About looking at Romans 5, 6:1-14, 7 and 8 (to see the proper context) earlier. Not at length like you did, but I mentioned it just the same.

 

[musterion]

I haven't anyone yet anywhere who seems to understand (from their comments) what is going on with Romans 6:15-23.

Verses 17-18 and 20-22 in that very passage totally refute the very case you are trying desperately to make, the same case you tried (and failed) to make elsewhere.

I said before and say again: you seek to shipwreck the faith of others, just as yours evidently was shipwrecked long ago. You've been taken captive, friend...time you got free.

Then why all the talk about them sinning (6:15 & 6:16)?

Paul is laying down a general doctrinal principle here specifically because they are weak in the flesh (v. 19) but you're prooftexting it (again) to shore up your shipwrecked doctrine. Did you even notice the PAST TENSE Paul switches to in v. 17? He wasn't telling them they're risking losing their salvation. Just the opposite - the whole passage is his encouraging them to live up to what they now are in Christ, which they evidently weren't...such would provide the harvest of spiritual fruit Paul wished to have among them (1:13).

Do you really see EVERYTHING in the Bible as a threat of Hell?

And why the charge that they become slaves of obedience (6:19), when he says the opposite of this is slavery to sin (6:16)?

He said they are slaves of righteousness (v. 18), and not only that but slaves to God (v. 22).

And why all the talk of sin leading to eternal death (6;16, 6:21, 6:23)?

Where did Paul say "eternal death"? Just as there's more than one meaning of "judgment" and "salvation" in the Bible, there's more than one meaning for "death."

And why do you call them a "strange church"? Paul was teaching them things they simply had not heard before. They NEEDED him. Who are you to judge them so harshly?

Judging only by what you repeatedly post, you must live in constant FEAR of God and want to convince others to fear Him as you do. You know what that makes you?

I hope others join me in praying for you.

 

[Prentis]

Yes, this is the tremendous failure of our churches!

I was about to ask where you were educated, and then looked up and saw Mow-ree-all.
Do they still teach proper English in the down-and-dirty public schools?
BTW, I was raised in Toronto.

I wasn't raised here in Montreal. Actually grew up in Ontario near Cornwall until I was 18... However, I've got a few horror stories from a young brother in law who's teacher was... 100% french! In french, pineapple is 'ananas', so when someone asked how to say 'ananas' in english, he just said 'ananas' with a pseudo-english accent. That's how he translated a lot of words! LOL

Blessings to you and yours!
The doctrine that we are somehow eternally secure, no matter our failures, our unfaithfulness and unwillingness to learn spring from the time of the reformation, and are not in accord at all with Biblical Christianity. Jesus and the Apostles neither taught these things, nor did they intend to.

It is an easy game to make the Bible say what we want, in this case, making it justify us. Without realizing it, men become self-righteous, because they twist the Bible to justify themselves... But God is the judge.

One could just as easily make the Bible say that we are ALL condemned and without hope. 'All have sinned', it is written, and 'the soul that sins, it shall die'. Then simply brush away the promises, and voila, no hope for humanity.

But the truth is found only in the whole counsel of the word. On the one hand, if we believe in Him, we have received exceeding great promises, on the other, we must patiently endure that we receive them (Hebrews). On the one hand, we have received a new nature from on high, and are given power to be the sons of God, on the other hand we must add to our faith with all diligence the virtues of Christ's character (Peter). On the one hand, we have been grafted in and made heirs with Christ, on the other, we must continue in fear and humility lest we be cut off (Paul).

Men have turned from the truth of Christ to fables. But the true gospel calls us to endure, to continue, and ultimately to be found in Christ and conformed to Him. We are not called to a salvation within our current nature, but a salvation from our old nature TO a new nature. Christ in us, the hope of glory... Is it still our own selves that live through us, or have we so removed our selves from his way that it be Christ?

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[FHII]

Prentis,

I agree with much of what you say. I however, don't discount the teaching that we are eternally secure. We are, and the Bible says so. I can give many verses that relate that, but one of my favorites comes from Hebrews 10:

"....By the which will, we are sanctified by the offering of the blood of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering the same sacrifices, which can never take away sin. But this man, after he had made one offering for sin for ever, sat down on the right hand of God, from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath protected for ever them that are sanctified."

There is much to be said also on predestination, and for starters you can look at Romans 8:28-30 as well as Eph chapters 1 and 2.

There is one thing, however, that you talked about that often is NOT in discussions or debates about predestination on OSAS. That is, that while God does predestinate, know who is saved, and willed it to be so, and made it so that NOTHING is going to stop it from happening (including the actions of the predestinated), He doesn't let anyone know who that is.... Neither the damned nor the saved know. I don't know who's saved from the foundations of the world, and neither does anyone else.

With that in mind, there is no room for spiritual pride, as many of those against predestination and OSAS accuse. There is only room for everyone to run the race and endure to the end (as you talked about). Those that are predestinated will make it, but they must still fight the fight of faith... They don't get to sit back and take it easy.

The question about those individuals who embrace Christ and later fall away from Christ comes up. Since they fell away, doesn't that prove that predestination is false? No, it doesn't. They may have walked the walk and talked the talk, but they were never true Christians to begin with. They were never predestinated if they fell away. I confirm that with 1 John chapters 1 & 2 when it talks about them being among us, but not of us, because if they were of us, they would have continued.

In short, in my walk I believe what is said about predestination and am happy about it. However, I don't stop contending for the faith delivered to me. I believe this is a common trait amongst those who really are predestinated. Like you said, they will endure to the end.

 

[Prentis]

Prentis,

I agree with much of what you say. I however, don't discount the teaching that we are eternally secure. We are, and the Bible says so. I can give many verses that relate that, but one of my favorites comes from Hebrews 10:

"....By the which will, we are sanctified by the offering of the blood of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering the same sacrifices, which can never take away sin. But this man, after he had made one offering for sin for ever, sat down on the right hand of God, from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath protected for ever them that are sanctified."

There is much to be said also on predestination, and for starters you can look at Romans 8:28-30 as well as Eph chapters 1 and 2.

There is one thing, however, that you talked about that often is NOT in discussions or debates about predestination on OSAS. That is, that while God does predestinate, know who is saved, and willed it to be so, and made it so that NOTHING is going to stop it from happening (including the actions of the predestinated), He doesn't let anyone know who that is.... Neither the damned nor the saved know. I don't know who's saved from the foundations of the world, and neither does anyone else.

With that in mind, there is no room for spiritual pride, as many of those against predestination and OSAS accuse. There is only room for everyone to run the race and endure to the end (as you talked about). Those that are predestinated will make it, but they must still fight the fight of faith... They don't get to sit back and take it easy.

The question about those individuals who embrace Christ and later fall away from Christ comes up. Since they fell away, doesn't that prove that predestination is false? No, it doesn't. They may have walked the walk and talked the talk, but they were never true Christians to begin with. They were never predestinated if they fell away. I confirm that with 1 John chapters 1 & 2 when it talks about them being among us, but not of us, because if they were of us, they would have continued.

In short, in my walk I believe what is said about predestination and am happy about it. However, I don't stop contending for the faith delivered to me. I believe this is a common trait amongst those who really are predestinated. Like you said, they will endure to the end.

As a theological point of view, or doctrinal stance, I don't have an issue with this... Until we say, 'I am of those predestined'. If one were to hold to this doctrine, he would have to conclude with the fact that he doesn't know who is predestined, including himself... After all, if others have truly walked the walked, but not been preserved of God for the reason of his choosing, how do we know we will be preserved to the end?

It only works with this attitude, otherwise we remove the 'fear and trembling' with which we must work out our salvation, and we lose the 'fear, lest you also be cut off'. That is the grave danger of such a doctrine, it directly appeals to what is naturally in the heart of men; the desire to be already accepted. So men receive this doctrine and say 'I am of the elect'.

Now for the biblical reasons I do not agree with such doctrine... Peter tells us of men who have been cleansed, but have forgotten, and in Hebrews we read of those who really have tasted of the powers of the next age, and been englightened by God, but who produce only thorns and are good only to be burnt.

Why do people believe the same book as being inspired of God and have such far different views on what it means? We must carefully consider all things, so that all verses line up.

We are indeed predestined, if we are called. But many are called, few are chosen. A father who owns a thriving company predestines his sons to inherit it. It is naturally their destination and where they are headed. But a rebellious son will trade his inheritance for a bowl of soup!

We are predestined in that we are called to be with God. Thus, the predestination verses in the Bible work. But we must continue and work out our calling in Christ Jesus with fear and trembling lest we fall short. Thus the warnings are not in vain, and the parables of the unfaithful servants are real and not lies.

Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Paul both warns the people and asserts the confidence he has in Christ that these people will endure. We do need to be patient, and add to our faith. This way everything lines up, the warnings and the promises!

 

[John Zain]

But the truth is found only in the whole counsel of the word.

And people don't want the whole counsel of God to fit together.
They need to come with an open heart and mind, with no preconceived biases.

Here's my quick synopsis, which IMO, takes everything into account:
- the free gift of God's grace-faith is given only to some people
- His gift is conditional ... it is not guaranteed to last forever
- some who receive God's grace endure faithfully to the end (to God's satisfaction)
- some who receive God's grace do NOT endure faithfully to the end (to God's satisfaction)

God saw everything beforehand ...
and at that time, He knew who His elect (described in Rom 8:28-30) would be.
The elect were given all of the promises ... because God knew these would prevail.

 

[Webers_Home]

He doesn't let anyone know who that is.... Neither the damned nor the
saved know. I don't know who's saved from the foundations of the world,
and neither does anyone else.

When people make statements such as that one; they are telling me they
are NOT one of the saved because The Spirit is ever-active communicating
that kind of information to the Father's elect.

†. Rom 8:15 . .The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's
children.

The koiné Greek word for "testifies" is summartureo (soom-mar-too-reh'-o)
which means: to testify jointly; viz: to corroborate-- to support with
evidence or authority: to confirm.

That kind of activity isn't delegated to human agents like pastors, ministers,
evangelists, Sunday school teachers, and/or chat room bee-essers because
it's on a supernatural level rather than an academic level. Bottom line is: if
somebody isn't 110% convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are
one of the Father's elect; it's because they aren't-- either that or The Spirit's
been sleeping on the job and neglecting his responsibilities.

Buen Camino
/

 

[williemac]

When people make statements such as that one; they are telling me they
are NOT one of the saved because The Spirit is ever-active communicating
that kind of information to the Father's elect.

†. Rom 8:15 . .The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's
children.

The koiné Greek word for "testifies" is summartureo (soom-mar-too-reh'-o)
which means: to testify jointly; viz: to corroborate-- to support with
evidence or authority: to confirm.

That kind of activity isn't delegated to human agents like pastors, ministers,
evangelists, Sunday school teachers, and/or chat room bee-essers because
it's on a supernatural level rather than an academic level. Bottom line is: if
somebody isn't 110% convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are
one of the Father's elect; it's because they aren't-- either that or The Spirit's
been sleeping on the job and neglecting his responsibilities.

Buen Camino
/

touche'

 

[FHII]

When people make statements such as that one; they are telling me they
are NOT one of the saved because The Spirit is ever-active communicating
that kind of information to the Father's elect.

†. Rom 8:15 . .The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's
children.

The koiné Greek word for "testifies" is summartureo (soom-mar-too-reh'-o)
which means: to testify jointly; viz: to corroborate-- to support with
evidence or authority: to confirm.

That kind of activity isn't delegated to human agents like pastors, ministers,
evangelists, Sunday school teachers, and/or chat room bee-essers because
it's on a supernatural level rather than an academic level. Bottom line is: if
somebody isn't 110% convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are
one of the Father's elect; it's because they aren't-- either that or The Spirit's
been sleeping on the job and neglecting his responsibilities.

Buen Camino
/

There is some truth to what you say... You must indeed be 100% convinced in your mind of your faith in Christ.... Absolutely true. It is absolutely true that the Lord has predestinated some and there is nothing that is going to prevent them. Also true.

However, you picked the wrong verse to display that. Not only is it not Romans 8:15 which says that (you were only off by one verse, so that's ok) but the verse doesn't say the spirit testifies TO our spirit, it says it beareth witness with our spirit.

The Bible does give us a game plan and promises that are fool proof and will work if we follow it. It also gives us the enemies playbook and tells us what pitfalls await us (the book of Jude for example). We still have to follow it day by day.

We see in 1 John that many have fallen away because while they may have acted it out (I imagine for a time they actually believed themselves), they never really were Children of God. Again, we have the play book and assurance that if followed, we are predestinated -- and God knows in advance AND WILLED IT to be so who that is. But we don't.

We are to renew our faith day by day. Matt 6:11 and 33-34 along with John 6, 2 Cor 4:16, Luke 9:23,Heb 3:13, 1 Cor 9:24, Heb 12:1 Php 2:12, 1 Cor 15:2 are verses you can look to for that.

So yes, draw near in full assurance of faith as Hebrews 10 says. But I don't see any verses that state we get the prize before we finish the race. Evangalist 7 is big on warnings... Too big in that everything seems like a warning to him. However, they are still there. With that in mind, I don't see any verses that personally guarentee any one individual.

I didn't expound on all of this earlier... But next time it might be better to ask for clarification.

 

[Webers_Home]

There is some truth to what you say

What I said might be a half truth to you; but it's the whole truth and nothing
but the truth to me.

you picked the wrong verse

Rom 8:16 might be the wrong pick for you; but it's the perfect pick for me.

I don't see any verses that personally guarentee any one individual

Maybe you don't see any verses that personally guarantee any one
individual permanent, fail-safe salvation; but I do because it's via those
verses that The Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I'm God's kin. You,
on the other hand, dare not believe yourself God's kin because according
to one of your own statements; nobody knows things like that. But you
see; The Spirit knows, and according to Rom 8:16, He shares that
information with the Father's elect so they'll know too.

What do they call a child that doesn't know who its father is? an orphan.

†. John 14:18 . . I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.


Buen Camino
/

 

[FHII]

well, good for you Buen.... I'm so happy for you and would give you the ole pat on the back
if I were there with ya! Have a nice day!

 

[Prentis]

The servant of God must have a humble attitude...

10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’” (Luke 17)

We may know we are God's children if indeed we have served him and tasted of his Spirit. But we cannot judge whether we are the unprofitable servant which is cast into outer darkness or the "good and faithful servant'' that Christ gladly welcomes into his Kingdom.

If we are proud and use God's word to justify ourselves, we will be humbled, but if we remain humble, he will lift us up.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1)

We need to patiently endure that we might receive the promises given us, In this we need to remain humble and not claim more for ourselves.

 

[FHII]

The servant of God must have a humble attitude...

10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’” (Luke 17)

We may know we are God's children if indeed we have served him and tasted of his Spirit. But we cannot judge whether we are the unprofitable servant which is cast into outer darkness or the "good and faithful servant'' that Christ gladly welcomes into his Kingdom.

If we are proud and use God's word to justify ourselves, we will be humbled, but if we remain humble, he will lift us up.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1)

We need to patiently endure that we might receive the promises given us, In this we need to remain humble and not claim more for ourselves.

Bravo!!! All kinds of verses quoted! Such wonderful language, too! However, why don't you clearly speak your mind?

I'll speak plainly... The bottom line is that we live by faith. And we live it day by day. There is no guarentee of tomorrow. Yes, we have Word of predestination. Yes we have assurance that if we follow the plan, we have it. Yes, we have a guarentee of eternal security, but only if we follow the plan day by day. In other words, our faith is only sufficient for today. Tomorrow it must be renewed and it will be. We don't have a lifetime membership, but we do have a perpetual and renewable daily membership. And that will last for ever, on a daily basis, but it still ain't a lifetime membership.

Yes we have a promise of salvation which was ordained before the foundations of the world. Let me clearly point it out, we are chosen and we will persevere. But we do it day by day by day... I have a guarentee of eternal salvation, but it's only good for today. Renewable tomorrow, but good only for today.

I gave my verses on that and told why it was so. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit told me I was right! Yea! The Holy Spirit himself! See, I know who the Holy Spirit is, and I've seen him face to face. Hell, if you folks can claim it, so can I. The difference is I can identify the Holy Spirit and there are folks who see him as Casper the friendly Holy Ghost! Claimed to have been taught by them in a dream!!!!! That spirit told them all kinds of wonderful things!!!! Private revelations no less!!!!

I got a Bible and a man of God who explains it to me. What do you got????

 

[Prentis]

Bravo!!! All kinds of verses quoted! Such wonderful language, too! However, why don't you clearly speak your mind?

I'll speak plainly... The bottom line is that we live by faith. And we live it day by day. There is no guarentee of tomorrow. Yes, we have Word of predestination. Yes we have assurance that if we follow the plan, we have it. Yes, we have a guarentee of eternal security, but only if we follow the plan day by day. In other words, our faith is only sufficient for today. Tomorrow it must be renewed and it will be. We don't have a lifetime membership, but we do have a perpetual and renewable daily membership. And that will last for ever, on a daily basis, but it still ain't a lifetime membership.

Yes we have a promise of salvation which was ordained before the foundations of the world. Let me clearly point it out, we are chosen and we will persevere. But we do it day by day by day... I have a guarentee of eternal salvation, but it's only good for today. Renewable tomorrow, but good only for today.

I gave my verses on that and told why it was so. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit told me I was right! Yea! The Holy Spirit himself! See, I know who the Holy Spirit is, and I've seen him face to face. Hell, if you folks can claim it, so can I. The difference is I can identify the Holy Spirit and there are folks who see him as Casper the friendly Holy Ghost! Claimed to have been taught by them in a dream!!!!! That spirit told them all kinds of wonderful things!!!! Private revelations no less!!!!

I got a Bible and a man of God who explains it to me. What do you got????

:blink:

If that was clearly speaking your mind, I didn't get it... Seems like there's some sarcasm. But I can't read through it, or between the lines if you will.

Don't understand. Sorry.

 

[musterion]

:blink:

If that was clearly speaking your mind, I didn't get it... Seems like there's some sarcasm. But I can't read through it, or between the lines if you will.

Don't understand. Sorry.

It's not just you.

 

[FHII]

Sorry Prentis..... I've followed your posts a long time and I think I know your mind.... Maybe not. Sometimes you come off TO ME (maybe my fault) as like Joel Osteen. I'm a warrior in the Word.... I don't have time for playing around. Humble? Sure.... I'm humble to God. Not to others who believe false doctrine. I am loving to them, just not "Joel Osteen" humble....

"The servant of God must have a humble attitude..."

Um.... Samuel hewed with a sword pagans.... He forsaked Saul in the process. AND God was mad at Saul for not KILLING the pagans!

Jehu.... Well.... Where do I begin!

Isaiah went naked.... Showed his full monty and said, "This is what you are to God!"

Jesus beat people out of a temple with a whip which he made, so he had plenty of time to think about it.

Peter asked, "Why have you lied to the Holy Ghost" and pronounced a death sentance.

Paul threatened to "bewail" the Corinthians.



But... OK... Maybe I was a bit harsh on you.... Sorry.