But the Great Tribulation of AD 70 was purely Jewish. And biblical Jews ceased to exists when Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. Today's Jews are gentiles only, who practice Jewish customs and beliefs. We are to preach the gospel to all nations (gentiles) until the end of the world. This means the times of the gentiles exists until then.
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Great Tribulation was purely Jewish. And biblical Jews ceased to exists when Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. Today's Jews are gentiles only, who practice Jewish customs and beliefs. We are to preach the gospel to all nations (gentiles) until the end of the world. This means the times of the gentiles exists until then.
Matthew 24 repeats itself. You are reading it chronologically and missing the meaning.
First division from the time spoken until end of world 1-14;
Second Division 70 AD until end of world 15-28;
Third division near end of world through end of world 29-31.
Commentary and advise about the end 32-51.
Yes, the bible does say that there is nothing new under the sun. I agree that certain prototypical events could reoccur throughout history and in the future.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
The Apostles asked Jesus for a sign of last days and his second presence this is the setting the great Tribulation is in. So while it's true there was a Tribulation of the Jewish system of things back 2000 years ago roughly there will be a greater Tribulation sometime during Jesus second presence. There is a greater Tribulation to come in the future.
Except that the disasters and desolations described in the sixth and seven seals are TOTALLY UNIQUE. So there is indeed something new under the sun (when we realize that Ecclesiastes is written from the perspective of the natural man).
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mt 24:21)
For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. (Mk 13:19)
It is scoffers who would say: ...for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (2 Pet 3:4).
Not that I disagree with this, but Ecclesiastes is still the bible and therefore still the divinely inspired word of God.
I'm not saying that the disasters (Revelation plagues) have happened already. I'm saying there is kind of a historical pattern or course that mankind continues to take with history. The rise of tyrannical leadership always seems to reoccur.
2 Peter 3:4 is speaking about people who refuse or are blind and deaf to obvious signs of the times. Those that ridicule Christian's when we say that we expect Christ to return soon
The point I was making is that the scoffers will say the same thing as what is said in Ecclesiastes -- nothing new under the sun. But they will obviously be wrong.
Matthew 24 has Two Tribulations being confused with each other today. The great Jewish Tribulation of AD 70. And the great tribulation of Christians spanning the entire new covenant era.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I disagree. I believe there's going to be a greater Tribulation that no one has experienced yet. I think the United Nations will one day destroy all false religion what revelation calls, 'Babylon The Great', which will cause a global Tribulation the likes of which no one has seen.
Last edited:
If you spend some time with Matthew 24, here's how it works out;
First division from the time spoken until end of world 1-14;
Second Division 70 AD until end of world 15-22;
Third division near end of world through end of world 23-28.
Commentary and advise about the end 29-51.
The key to seeing two separate tribulations is in reading until you come to the end of the world. And starting over and reading until you come to the end of the world again And so on. Matthew 24 is like 4 pictures that focus on certain events meant to take place throughout the New Covenant era. The Book of Revelation works the same way.
Last edited by a moderator:
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Oh I see, he was speaking to his disciples, those he fore knew. That’s why he said flee into the mountains of Judea and don’t bother collecting your personal items. Makes sense! It would be hard for me to flee into the Mts of Judea. They must have known this would be a local event, even better they listened.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Our Lord Jesus' Olivet discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 confuses many. It contains a dual-fulfillment prophecy about the destruction of the buildings on the temple mount, both in 70 A.D., and then in final by Jesus when His feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives at His return. The hint He left for us to notice showing this is His prophecy that not one stone would be standing on top of another involving the temple mount buildings. Today, the Wailing Wall huge stones which were part of the foundation of the western wall of the temple complex, are witness that not one stone on top of another prophecy is yet to be fulfilled.
1. It's important to note that Jesus' disciples pointed out to Him the buildings on the Temple Mount, not the whole city of Jerusalem. The not one stone standing on top of another He didn't apply to the whole city; He applied that to the buildings on the temple mount which His disciples asked Him about. They were all destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D., excepting the huge stones of the Western Wall. They still stand today and are often shown in news reels with orthodox Jews praying at it, a way that our Lord is letting us know the destruction of those stones that are atop another is still yet to come.
2. The Romans in 70 A.D. did not fulfill the "abomination of desolation" prophecy Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel. Some try to stress that word 'desolation' as being about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman general Titus and his army in 70 A.D. However, that is not the proper application of that word 'desolation' per the Daniel prophecy in Daniel 11 where our Lord Jesus was pulling from. The "abomination of desolation" is about the spiritual desolation inside the temple at Jerusalem with the placing of an idol abomination in it for false worship. Historically, Antiochus Epiphanes in 170 B.C. did this, taking Jerusalem with an army, going inside the temple and sacrificing swine upon the altar thus spiritually desolating it, and then he placed an idol in Zeus worship and demanded all to bow to it. The Romans did no such working in 70 A.D., as the temple burned down before they could get control of it. Thus the "abomination of desolation" has to be for the very end of this present world, with the building of another Jewish temple in Jerusalem.
3. For several decades now, ultra-orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem have been preparing the materials to build another Jewish temple in Jerusalem. They have setup the old Jewish Sanhedrin again. And they have been selected Levitical priests per blood lineage, and already have the cornerstone cut and ready to put in place. The orthodox Jews still believe they are under the old covenant worship. That old covenant worship requires a temple style worship with sacrifices. That has been part of their plan since trying to become a nation state again since the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
4. Jesus gave the main signs of the end in His Olivet discourse. They are the signs of the Seals in Revelation 6 which He gave to His Church.
1. It's important to note that Jesus' disciples pointed out to Him the buildings on the Temple Mount, not the whole city of Jerusalem. The not one stone standing on top of another He didn't apply to the whole city; He applied that to the buildings on the temple mount which His disciples asked Him about. They were all destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D., excepting the huge stones of the Western Wall. They still stand today and are often shown in news reels with orthodox Jews praying at it, a way that our Lord is letting us know the destruction of those stones that are atop another is still yet to come.
2. The Romans in 70 A.D. did not fulfill the "abomination of desolation" prophecy Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel. Some try to stress that word 'desolation' as being about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman general Titus and his army in 70 A.D. However, that is not the proper application of that word 'desolation' per the Daniel prophecy in Daniel 11 where our Lord Jesus was pulling from. The "abomination of desolation" is about the spiritual desolation inside the temple at Jerusalem with the placing of an idol abomination in it for false worship. Historically, Antiochus Epiphanes in 170 B.C. did this, taking Jerusalem with an army, going inside the temple and sacrificing swine upon the altar thus spiritually desolating it, and then he placed an idol in Zeus worship and demanded all to bow to it. The Romans did no such working in 70 A.D., as the temple burned down before they could get control of it. Thus the "abomination of desolation" has to be for the very end of this present world, with the building of another Jewish temple in Jerusalem.
3. For several decades now, ultra-orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem have been preparing the materials to build another Jewish temple in Jerusalem. They have setup the old Jewish Sanhedrin again. And they have been selected Levitical priests per blood lineage, and already have the cornerstone cut and ready to put in place. The orthodox Jews still believe they are under the old covenant worship. That old covenant worship requires a temple style worship with sacrifices. That has been part of their plan since trying to become a nation state again since the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
4. Jesus gave the main signs of the end in His Olivet discourse. They are the signs of the Seals in Revelation 6 which He gave to His Church.
I believe you have misunderstood Daniel 9. The period of time between the decree of Cyrus to rebuild and restore Jerusalem to the crucifixion of Christ was 483 years (69 x 7). Messiah Jesus was on earth for about 33 years.
Well history and chronology (biblical and secular) confirms that the 490 years of Daniel (70 "sevens" or heptads or weeks) can be nothing other than years. Not day or months.
Similar threads
