The Afterlife

[Helen]

When did Satan fall from heaven, and when did Satan approach God to test Job?

Wouldn't Satan have fallen from the time of Adam? Yet he was able to re-enter heaven to speak with God?

Or is the new heaven the one without Satan?

Ha! You probably aren't speaking to me...but here I am anyway.

I think Satan fell before creation myself...
I read somewhere that Satan has access into the second heaven..which to us would be the one above our sky, being the first...but that he can go no further.
The warlocks and witches also have access to the second heaven...so it seems to be the realm of the spirits be they good or bad...true or not...it all sounded okay!

They say that Job was the oldest book...interesting how it says.." the sons of God and Satan"...as if he were once a 'son'. Satan didn't pick out Job, God did " Have you considered..."
I wonder if he sometimes does that with us!! Maybe He sometimes feels we need a test and says .."Hey, look at my child over there , have you checked on him or her lately." ekk! But, probably so!

 

[ScottA]

When did Satan fall from heaven, and when did Satan approach God to test Job?

Wouldn't Satan have fallen from the time of Adam? Yet he was able to re-enter heaven to speak with God?

Or is the new heaven the one without Satan?

ScottA

Thanks for yours...
The thing is as I see it...we have "positional truth"... = In Christ have are complete and have all things.
But we also have the walk of experience... As I see it...as we walk day by day with our Lord, we are bringing the two closer together ( if we are yielded and Abide In Him)
In other words...our feet have yet to catch up with spiritual condition in Christ.
I actually have a family member I was writing to the other day...they spout all the wonderful scriptures of where they are in Christ..all true...the bible says so...but I said " All well and good, but your works betray you, your feet ( walk) is not up to your spiritual position, you brow beat your wife and kids..you are bully , you may have the "spiritual position"...but your sure do not have the HEART of God.
Love one another... is still going to be our litmus test...how we live is still up for grabs...we choose.
just saying...we must stay balanced and check to make sure our feet ( walk) and heart are getting close together.

Just my two cents..

As you will. But if I may explain... The same is true of one who reads a book that is written. He does not know the next chapter or the end...and yet the story is already written. He is last to know. But the truth from God, is that these things which we now see manifest in our time, were so from the foundation of the world. The point is, things are not actually "as you see it."

 

[ScottA]

When did Satan fall from heaven, and when did Satan approach God to test Job?

Wouldn't Satan have fallen from the time of Adam? Yet he was able to re-enter heaven to speak with God?

Or is the new heaven the one without Satan?

God is the Truth...and he is timeless. That is where the logic must center, and for that matter, also begin and end.

Thus, if a timeless God in a timeless setting were to tell a story, from beginning to end, as it were. He would [once upon a time] begin where there is no beginning, and end where there is no end...and yet tell the story on a superimposed timeline - simply for the telling.

Great is our God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi there
Agree " The kingdom is within us" ...He is the kingdom.
But let's face it " if this is it" then it's not much of a victorious ending of the Story which started in Genesis!! I believe God has something better and more exciting planned for the " great wrap up" Yes, the kingdom is with...but as yet we have not entered into His Glory! The Day is at hand!
When He said " Behold I come quickly " .....I must admit, I thought it would be a lot quicker than this!!!
I was always a believer in "a day as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day" 2 Peter 3.
So starting from Genesis...and counting seven " days" as 7000 years to the seventh day/ rest......it should have been all wrapped up by now!! So...that may have 'preached well' back in the day....but here we sit...it has not happened.
So, I guess the only thing we can do is to pray " Thy Kingdom come..."

ya...the "great wrap up" is a sales pitch, i'm convinced. No one reading this would want to live even 100 years ago. It gets a little closer every day. Step by step is how the kingdom will manifest for us.

 

[bbyrd009]

Semantics.

? ok

you hope

 

[lforrest]

God is the Truth...and he is timeless. That is where the logic must center, and for that matter, also begin and end.

Thus, if a timeless God in a timeless setting were to tell a story, from beginning to end, as it were. He would [once upon a time] begin where there is no beginning, and end where there is no end...and yet tell the story on a superimposed timeline - simply for the telling.

Great is our God.

I have heard it called Einsteinean spirituality before. Not because it matches what Einstein believed, but because you try to understand God from a timeless perspective.

I am not convinced of strict determinism, despite God's timeless nature and him knowing everything from the beginning to the end. The kicker for me is my experience having prayed to avoid what appears to be a predetermined event, and then it doesn't happen but I can see how close it was to happening after the fact. Since we can't rely on experience there is scripture: Why would God ever need to blot out a name from the book of life, rather he should never have written it there in the first place. I'm sure others would point to situations where God appears to have changed his mind, like in Jonah.

I am considering this analog to resolve the paradox: If you consider a timeless existence to be as a point our existence has been stretched into a line, such that it has a beginning different from the end. God can speak and add a point to that line to steer it in a different direction. In the end it will be collapsed down into a point again.

 

[ScottA]

I have heard it called Einsteinean spirituality before. Not because it matches what Einstein believed, but because you try to understand God from a timeless perspective.

I am not convinced of strict determinism, despite God's timeless nature and him knowing everything from the beginning to the end. The kicker for me is my experience having prayed to avoid what appears to be a predetermined event, and then it doesn't happen but I can see how close it was to happening after the fact. Since we can't rely on experience there is scripture: Why would God ever need to blot out a name from the book of life, rather he should never have written it there in the first place. I'm sure others would point to situations where God appears to have changed his mind, like in Jonah.

I am considering this analog to resolve the paradox: If you consider a timeless existence to be as a point our existence has been stretched into a line, such that it has a beginning different from the end. God can speak and add a point to that line to steer it in a different direction. In the end it will be collapsed down into a point again.

There are and have been many ways to explain these matters, and also to explain them away. But nothing says it better, nor can any refute the meaning of, "I am."

 

[Job]

? ok

you hope

Here's what you said: notice it does not say "loved Him."

"Loved" is past tense. The contents of the heart is what the Lord searches. He's not going to look at deceased believer and say: "He don't love me anymore. He's dead."

See what I'm saying?

 

[bbyrd009]

Here's what you said: notice it does not say "loved Him."

"Loved" is past tense. The contents of the heart is what the Lord searches. He's not going to look at deceased believer and say: "He don't love me anymore. He's dead."

See what I'm saying?

the thread title is "the afterlife."
apropos of nothing (not a reply to a post) you posted

1 Corinthians 2
9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

to which i replied, "notice it does not say 'loved Him.'"

see what I'm saying?

 

[perrero]

PS, it was Einstein who said [scientifically] that time was an illusion.

I wonder how much time it took him to figure that out?

In my book, God started Time..( for us, He is outside of time)

I would say "God started time for us". Creation was brought into His timeline. Just like creation is held in His hand. I do not believe that God is out of time or without time. There is to much in His word to the contrary.
I believe God lives in a endless succession of time which has no bearing on Him. Nevertheless God has a past, present and future. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. There was a time of eternal past when God was all alone. (No creation whatsoever) There is a time where God exists with His creation and creatures and a future time when judgement will be fulfilled and everything made new.
When God says come let us reason together, though your sins are like crimson, they shall be white as snow. Reasoning takes time, God's patience with us takes time. God has plans for us. Planning takes time.

When I sin one day, God is grieved, When I repent another, God is elated. These alternate emotions require time to experience.
Mind you, time as stated has no effect or bearing on God, only on us. (Trust me I'm getting up there.)
When God says He is the "I am", I believe He is saying that He is everything we would need Him to be. I am your comfort, I am your victory, I am your provider, etc. etc.

Remembrance requires time. On time you know, another time you remember no more.
When God created He said it was good, when he made man He said it was very good. Yet in Genesis 6 He regrets creating man and sends a flood. There is certainly time involved between "very good" and "regret".
That's my 2 cents!

 

[ScottA]

I wonder how much time it took him to figure that out?

The same amount of time it took God to say, "I am."

...It did not take God time to say "I am", but it does take us time to hear it. But if we have heard but do not acknowledge that God simply "is", we remain in our valley of decision, not One, but separate.

 

[DPMartin]

I have heard it called Einsteinean spirituality before. Not because it matches what Einstein believed, but because you try to understand God from a timeless perspective.

I am not convinced of strict determinism, despite God's timeless nature and him knowing everything from the beginning to the end. The kicker for me is my experience having prayed to avoid what appears to be a predetermined event, and then it doesn't happen but I can see how close it was to happening after the fact. Since we can't rely on experience there is scripture: Why would God ever need to blot out a name from the book of life, rather he should never have written it there in the first place. I'm sure others would point to situations where God appears to have changed his mind, like in Jonah.

I am considering this analog to resolve the paradox: If you consider a timeless existence to be as a point our existence has been stretched into a line, such that it has a beginning different from the end. God can speak and add a point to that line to steer it in a different direction. In the end it will be collapsed down into a point again.

what might help you with that is your presumption that the event was predetermined. God's Word is predetermined to be fulfilled that is true, but what men perceive to come to pass, or couldn't come to pass surly isn't predetermined.

I'm not sure what is stricken from the Book of Life or added to the Book of Life, but one might consider that God's Judgement is Life, Adam was to be the son of God, and as a result of Adams own judgment that didn't pan out for Adam. For God, His Word and Will shall be fulfilled to His satisfaction or if you will He sees that it is good.

and even though it man's understanding the eternity involves endless time God says in Isaiah that He inhabits eternity who is to say eternity has anything to do with time, or requires time to be eternity. I do believe the scriptures refers to time having a beginning and an end, but we all know eternity doesn't. therefore God's existence has no need of time to be. creation has a beginning and time is an element of its existence. all executions of energy require time, but again God's existence doesn't require time.

 

[lforrest]

When time ends, won't the world have to end too because the perishable can not inherent the imperishable?