The Age of God’s Grace

[aspen]

Another one!!! ;)

To teach sinfulness in the flesh is to deny the power of the cross. We are dead to sin who are dead in Christ. We are alive to God who are born again from above according to the Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not sin, and neither do they who walk in His power.

Seriously?! Paul wrote in despair about remaining a sinner......Peter denied Christ!

A Medieval heretical group called the Cathars also believed that sin stopped after conversion - the result wasn't that there followers stopped sinning - they simply waited until they were dying to get baptized.

 

[Episkopos]

Seriously?! Paul wrote in despair about remaining a sinner......Peter denied Christ!

A Medieval heretical group called the Cathars also believed that sin stopped after conversion - the result wasn't that there followers stopped sinning - they simply waited until they were dying to get baptized.

You are seeking to obscure the biblical truth with a historical truism? Paul showed the PROCESS of becoming set free from sin in Christ. Peter denied Christ before Pentecost.

It is very possible that we can sin in our immaturity in forsaking the keeping power of God through our habitual practices of sin. In our day, the unbelief is very great.

But from the beginning it was not so. Christ is all sufficient in us. We need never sin again but rather look to Him who is the author and finisher of our faith. What He has begun in us He can certainly finish and He will when we place our faith in Him. So we will be exactly like our Master here on earth.

If a man abides with radioactive plutonium...he will be radioactive himself.

If a man abide in Christ he will be as Christ Himself.

 

[RichardBurger]

What you are saying is that the Spirit profits nothing. Is the flesh more powerful than God? We are made perfect by the Spirit so that we walk as Jesus walked.

Did Jesus sin? Did Jesus have a human body?

Jesus perfected the walk in THIS kind of body on THIS earth with THE SAME temptations as we. So by the Spirit we also overcome just as He did. This power is called grace and it works by faith.

Episkopos said. "What you are saying is that the Spirit profits nothing" As I recall I said that works of the flesh can not profit us. Do you have a reading problem?

I don't recall that I said anything like it. Can you show me where I said it?

 

[aspen]

You are seeking to obscure the biblical truth with a historical truism? Paul showed the PROCESS of becoming set free from sin in Christ. Peter denied Christ before Pentecost.

It is very possible that we can sin in our immaturity in forsaking the keeping power of God through our habitual practices of sin. In our day, the unbelief is very great.

But from the beginning it was not so. Christ is all sufficient in us. We need never sin again but rather look to Him who is the author and finisher of our faith. What He has begun in us He can certainly finish and He will when we place our faith in Him. So we will be exactly like our Master here on earth.

If a man abides with radioactive plutonium...he will be radioactive himself.

If a man abide in Christ he will be as Christ Himself.

We are called by Christ to love one another as we love ourselves - loving requires knowing. We need to know ourselves thoroughly - in takes a life time. When we take an observer's view of ourselves we are going to find virtues and sinful tendencies. Admitting these tendencies and regressions in behavior is part of our sanctification that the HS is working in our hearts. We are a work in progress - running the race to win.

I noticed that you didn't mention my reference to Paul - are you denying His conversion on the road to Damascus? He talked about his battle with sin after that conversion.

Of course, I am going to reference history in my commentary of the present - refusing to study history is condemning yourself to repeat it.

 

[Episkopos]

We are called by Christ to love one another as we love ourselves - loving requires knowing. We need to know ourselves thoroughly - in takes a life time. When we take an observer's view of ourselves we are going to find virtues and sinful tendencies. Admitting these tendencies and regressions in behavior is part of our sanctification that the HS is working in our hearts. We are a work in progress - running the race to win.

I noticed that you didn't mention my reference to Paul - are you denying His conversion on the road to Damascus? He talked about his battle with sin after that conversion.

Of course, I am going to reference history in my commentary of the present - refusing to study history is condemning yourself to repeat it.

Paul learned to overcome in Christ alone. God meant for him to explain the process as he did in Romans culminating with Romans 8 where he finally overcame through Christ.

Historically we have John who said that one who is born again does not and cannot sin. That is HIS testimony. So those who don't believe in a historical testimony are bound to not repeat it. ;)

Knowing Christ is the first thing...God will reveal what needs renewing at the appropriate time. We will stray from time to time until we learn to look only to Christ for His strength. If we admit our weakness and depend on Him He will clothe us with the "bubble" of His armour in light. From there we are untouched by the world and kept through grace.

 

[aspen]

Paul learned to overcome in Christ alone. God meant for him to explain the process as he did in Romans culminating with Romans 8 where he finally overcame through Christ.

Historically we have John who said that one who is born again does not and cannot sin. That is HIS testimony. So those who don't believe in a historical testimony are bound to not repeat it. ;)

Knowing Christ is the first thing...God will reveal what needs renewing at the appropriate time. We will stray from time to time until we learn to look only to Christ for His strength. If we admit our weakness and depend on Him He will clothe us with the "bubble" of His armour in light. From there we are untouched by the world and kept through grace.

If you read the entire book of 1 John you will notice that John bounces back and forth between idealism and what should be, back to mercy for when we do not meet the ideal.

I hope you are young and this is simply your youth speaking out. Hopefully, you will realize that you are in this race for sanctification for the long haul and be able to experience God's mercy when you retain sinful patterns along the way. God Bless.

 

[RichardBurger]

1 Corinthians 1:26-31

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,

29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —

31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

NKJV

28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,

Sinners were dispised by God but now, since all have sinned, God has chosen sinners (the things that are not) to bring to nothing the things that are (self-righteous religious man).

 

[Episkopos]

If you read the entire book of 1 John you will notice that John bounces back and forth between idealism and what should be, back to mercy for when we do not meet the ideal.

I hope you are young and this is simply your youth speaking out. Hopefully, you will realize that you are in this race for sanctification for the long haul and be able to experience God's mercy when you retain sinful patterns along the way. God Bless.

Idealism? Is Christ now a philosopher?

The bible is the truth told by men who were transformed by God. Today we see the lack of power and a lack of the testimony that shaped the disciples of Christ. We say...God no longer works that way...or else they were just young and not mature in the ways of the world like ourselves.

Is this not a condescending attitude to the testimony of the bible? Is this not the antithesis of faith?

1 Corinthians 1:26-31

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,

29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —

31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

NKJV

28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,

Sinners were dispised by God but now, since all have sinned, God has chosen sinners (the things that are not) to bring to nothing the things that are (self-righteous religious man).

God has chosen foolish sinners to confound the wise sinners? No wonder the world mocks the church today!

 

[elysian]

If we could stop sinning, then the cross would become irrelevant. Atonement would make little sense for the righteous - it is only sinners who need atonement.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos said. "What you are saying is that the Spirit profits nothing" As I recall I said that works of the flesh can not profit us. Do you have a reading problem?

I don't recall that I said anything like it. Can you show me where I said it?

You are saying that the Spirit is powerless against the almighty flesh!

You have made the flesh to be all-powerful! Seems to me that only God is all powerful and that He has provided the means to overcome sin through that power. Is the Spirit not sufficient to animate us after our flesh has been crucified with Christ?

If we could stop sinning, then the cross would become irrelevant. Atonement would make little sense for the righteous - it is only sinners who need atonement.

If we don't stop sinning then the cross has been shown to be ineffective. How many people continue to sin after they have been crucified with Christ? The cross is an instrument of death. After death comes the resurrection power of God. Jesus did not just die...He was also resurrected to impart His life for those who go through the death of the cross.

So it is death first...then life. We give up our lives to the care of God who crucifies the power of the flesh in order that we might walk in NEWNESS of life....

There are many here who do not believe in newness of life....they, as you, espouse a newness of doctrine...but not LIFE!!!!

Christ liberates you from the bondage of sin. Those who sin are of the devil. If there is not a power in you that keeps you from sin then you are not Christ's.

 

[jiggyfly]

You are saying that the Spirit is powerless against the almighty flesh!

You have made the flesh to be all-powerful! Seems to me that only God is all powerful and that He has provided the means to overcome sin through that power. Is the Spirit not sufficient to animate us after our flesh has been crucified with Christ?

Actually, I haven't seen anything like you have posted anywhere in Richard's posts. While I don't agree with everything Richard posts or believes, you need to quit misrepresenting what was said, you are wrong about what Richard has said and it appears it is deliberate. You should be able to post your opinions without twisting the words of others.

 

[Episkopos]

Actually, I haven't seen anything like you have posted anywhere in Richard's posts. While I don't agree with everything Richard posts or believes, you need to quit misrepresenting what was said, you are wrong about what Richard has said and it appears it is deliberate. You should be able to post your opinions without twisting the words of others.

If I say to someone...Do all sin? ...for instance....someone could say...You said all sin!

So Richard is trying to obscure my challenge to his position as an assault on his words. Th

If this is a discussion forum and I can question his teachings can I not?

I use rhetorical questioning to bring out what a person is really saying. If that person disagrees then they correct that reasoning with a new statement. There seems to be a bias against me in my arguments by you.

Actually, I haven't seen anything like you have posted anywhere in Richard's posts. While I don't agree with everything Richard posts or believes, you need to quit misrepresenting what was said, you are wrong about what Richard has said and it appears it is deliberate. You should be able to post your opinions without twisting the words of others.

Richard maintains that the flesh cannot be overcome by anything...we are doomed to sin till we die. THAT IS his position. It is not in the statement (yet) of faith on this board that we must remain sinners to be Christians.

It may not SOUND very nice to put this issue to the light...but why don't people see the error and how bad it really is? Should we gloss over an assault on the gospel?

Is sin all powerful or not?

Does darkness chase away light?

I think that many here are uncomfortable with my stand because it exposes sin for what it is....darkness.

Should we not talk about sin? Should we just leave that issue alone?

 

[jiggyfly]

If I say to someone...Do all sin? ...for instance....someone could say...You said all sin!

So Richard is trying to obscure my challenge to his position as an assault on his words. Th

If this is a discussion forum and I can question his teachings can I not?

I use rhetorical questioning to bring out what a person is really saying. If that person disagrees then they correct that reasoning with a new statement. There seems to be a bias against me in my arguments by you.



Richard maintains that the flesh cannot be overcome by anything...we are doomed to sin till we die. THAT IS his position. It is not in the statement (yet) of faith on this board that we must remain sinners to be Christians.

It may not SOUND very nice to put this issue to the light...but why don't people see the error and how bad it really is? Should we gloss over an assault on the gospel?

Is sin all powerful or not?

Does darkness chase away light?

I think that many here are uncomfortable with my stand because it exposes sin for what it is....darkness.

Should we not talk about sin? Should we just leave that issue alone?

Like I said quit misrepresenting and or twisting what was posted. As far as questioning another's belief or opinion sure you can as long as you don't lie about their beliefs and expressed opinion.


I personally think it is rather vain to think that what you believe and post makes many uncomfortable because you think it exposes sin.

 

[Episkopos]

Like I said quit misrepresenting and or twisting what was posted. As far as questioning another's belief or opinion sure you can as long as you don't lie about their beliefs and expressed opinion.


I personally think it is rather vain to think that what you believe and post makes many uncomfortable because you think it exposes sin.

The vanity lies in the ignoring of the scriptures in order to reduce the gospel to something we can already relate to from past experience. Doing this cements in the lack of growth and discovery of the power that sets one free. We are in a war. And there is great delusion out there. I am trying to point out what the bible actually says and upholding the standard we are called to in Christ.

I understand perfectly well what most believe. If I didn't think it was dangerously false I wouldn't say anything about it.

By the way..Richard keeps saying things that I never say...but that is permissible? I am accused of preaching salvation through fleshly works. I never said any such thing. Are you saying you agree with that assessment but disagree with the fact that Richard says it is impossible to not sin while living on earth?

A person with a bias cannot see the bias.

 

[jiggyfly]

The vanity lies in the ignoring of the scriptures in order to reduce the gospel to something we can already relate to from past experience. Doing this cements in the lack of growth and discovery of the power that sets one free. We are in a war. And there is great delusion out there. I am trying to point out what the bible actually says and upholding the standard we are called to in Christ.

I understand perfectly well what most believe. If I didn't think it was dangerously false I wouldn't say anything about it.

By the way..Richard keeps saying things that I never say...but that is permissible? I am accused of preaching salvation through fleshly works. I never said any such thing. Are you saying you agree with that assessment but disagree with the fact that Richard says it is impossible to not sin while living on earth?

A person with a bias cannot see the bias.

I Haven't read all Richard's posts, but I did read some and I did read some of yours and one you twisted/lied about what Richard posted which is why I made the post and you have avoided the subject matter and argued about things that have nothing to do with how you twisted Richard's words. My post/correction to you has nothing to do with what I believe or don't believe about Richard's beliefs or anyone else's for that matter including your own. I have tried to be patient with you but your response has dictated a warning with infraction.

 

[Episkopos]

I Haven't read all Richard's posts, but I did read some and I did read some of yours and one you twisted/lied about what Richard posted which is why I made the post and you have avoided the subject matter and argued about things that have nothing to do with how you twisted Richard's words. My post/correction to you has nothing to do with what I believe or don't believe about Richard's beliefs or anyone else's for that matter including your own. I have tried to be patient with you but your response has dictated a warning with infraction.

Before one accuses someone of accusing they should look at the whole content of the message. When a finger is pointed at someone there are three more pointing back at you.

 

[THE Gypsy]

I Haven't read all Richard's posts, but I did read some and I did read some of yours and one you twisted/lied about what Richard posted which is why I made the post and you have avoided the subject matter and argued about things that have nothing to do with how you twisted Richard's words. My post/correction to you has nothing to do with what I believe or don't believe about Richard's beliefs or anyone else's for that matter including your own. I have tried to be patient with you but your response has dictated a warning with infraction.

I have read through this entire thread and IMO...your assessment is spot on...not that you require my approval.

Having said that...

Before one accuses someone of accusing they should look at the whole content of the message. When a finger is pointed at someone there are three more pointing back at you.

What exactly does that Bible you read have to say about authority?

It is a sad day when brothers and sisters in Christ cannot discuss issues they may, or may not, agree on without twisting what they're are saying, questioning their obedience, accusing them of being carnal or continuing with whatever the meme-du-jour is to simply prove you are all knowing and the other person has nothing to say worth considering.

We are all here as guests. It is bad manners to come in as a guest and take a crap on the living room floor.

 

[lawrance]

The vanity lies in the ignoring of the scriptures in order to reduce the gospel to something we can already relate to from past experience. Doing this cements in the lack of growth and discovery of the power that sets one free. We are in a war. And there is great delusion out there. I am trying to point out what the bible actually says and upholding the standard we are called to in Christ.

I understand perfectly well what most believe. If I didn't think it was dangerously false I wouldn't say anything about it.

By the way..Richard keeps saying things that I never say...but that is permissible? I am accused of preaching salvation through fleshly works. I never said any such thing. Are you saying you agree with that assessment but disagree with the fact that Richard says it is impossible to not sin while living on earth?

A person with a bias cannot see the bias.

Episkopos is right i say, as others are twisting the true meaning of his words, as i understand what he is saying.
Whenever works is put forward, we always have some foolish short sighted numb skull notion put forward that it's mans works ? as if the concept of god's works can not involve man in any way at all.

We are not born entirely corrupt and we can have the strength in Christ to dismiss evil temptations with the power of Christ working in us, as we can have the ability to comprehend the works of Satan at work, due to what the Father has given us. The Father and the Son's works are not finished, as we are in the Spirit. Trinity ?
And if we are not in the Spirit we are lost and just babbling on with religious works of man.

 

[RichardBurger]

Richard maintains that the flesh cannot be overcome by anything...we are doomed to sin till we die. THAT IS his position. It is not in the statement (yet) of faith on this board that we must remain sinners to be Christians.

I have said that the children of God "have" overcome the flesh by their belief, faith, trust and confidence in Jesus' work on the cross.

Yes, we all sin in the flesh because it is sinful.

What you stated about what I believe is a lie and according to the scriptures it is bearing false witness and is sin. Conclusion, you are just as much a sinner as anyone else.

Just as the Pharisees believed themselves sinless when they murdered Jesus, you think you are sinless when you use your lie against me. It seems that you think you can lie and still be sinless.

God is the judge between us.

 

[RichardBurger]

I understand perfectly well what most believe. If I didn't think it was dangerously false I wouldn't say anything about it.

************** So you believe that anyone who has a different understanding of the scriptures should be put down. Somehow I see this as what it is. They murdered Jesus because what He taught was not according to their undersatnding. By the way, who made you my judge? ****************

By the way..Richard keeps saying things that I never say...but that is permissible? I am accused of preaching salvation through fleshly works. I never said any such thing. Are you saying you agree with that assessment but disagree with the fact that Richard says it is impossible to not sin while living on earth?

***************** What I say about you is based on what YOU say. You are here preaching that a person can be perfect in the flesh by their own works to accomplish it.
Perhaps I have misunderstood you but I don't think so. If this statement is incorrect then tell me why you think it is? ****************

A person with a bias cannot see the bias.

********************* I got a laugh about this. Are you saying I have a bias and you do not? ****************

Episkopos is right i say, as others are twisting the true meaning of his words, as i understand what he is saying.
Whenever works is put forward, we always have some foolish short sighted numb skull notion put forward that it's mans works ? as if the concept of god's works can not involve man in any way at all.

We are not born entirely corrupt and we can have the strength in Christ to dismiss evil temptations with the power of Christ working in us, as we can have the ability to comprehend the works of Satan at work, due to what the Father has given us. The Father and the Son's works are not finished, as we are in the Spirit. Trinity ?
And if we are not in the Spirit we are lost and just babbling on with religious works of man.

Your idea about being not being born in sin is not according to scriptures.

So in your opinion everyone else is twisting the scriptures and you and Episkopos are not. Do you have an attitude problem?