quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I see OT writers as having insight coupled with limitations the which Jesus shone light into. The final word is that of Jesus when it comes to God’s character.
The Bible - How do you view it ?
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Deborah_
Well-Known Member
The Bible IS inspired by God - but not all of it was dictated by God. Each book (sometimes even parts of books) has to be read in its context and with regard to literary genre. "Apocalyptic" literature (such as the last few chapters of Daniel and the book of Revelation) was never intended to be taken literally. And when Jesus said to His disciples at the Last Supper, “This is my body,” (Mark 14:22) not many of us Protestants think that He intended His words to be taken literally!
When I look at the book of Genesis I read chapter 12 onwards as family history and I believe it to be literally true. The earlier chapters have a very different style and are probably not a literal, historical description of the events recorded. (That doesn't mean that those events didn't happen, but that a historical account would look very different). Especially Genesis 1, which the writer has created around the symbolic number 7 (far more apparent in Hebrew than in English). The links explain my reasoning a little more fully:
(6) Does the Bible contain errors?
In the Beginning
First - according to the Bible Jesus Christ is "The Word of God"
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood and His name is called "The Word of God"
So what is the Bible?
The Bible is the Holy Scriptures!!!
That is to say that God had people who heard from Him in the past write things down for Him. Which is to say "The Word of God" (Jesus Christ) spoke to people via His Holy Spirit and told them to write!!! The Word of God (Jesus Christ) had His reasons for doing that - namely to have things written down for Him to use in the future (now and in the past).Therefore the Bible is like a text book the Teacher (Jesus Christ the Word of God) uses to teach us from!
His sheep hear His voice, which comes from His Holy Spirit to our spirit, so that we find His words spoken to us in our heart and sometime in our mouth. We need to pay attention. We need to seek Him, and listen - so that we will know Him as our Teacher, our Wonderful Counselor, as Wisdom, as Understanding, as our friend, and most importantly as our Lord - remembering that a Lord is someone who gives us instructions!
The Word of God (Jesus Christ) is not dead so that we have to go to down to find Him, and the Word of God (Jesus Christ) is not in some far off place called heaven so that we have to find a way to heaven to hear from Him - but the Word of God (Jesus Christ) is near you - in your heart and mouth - and that is the Word of God which we are preaching!!! All that is explained in the Bible - or are we just saying we think the Bible is correct but don't actually believe what the Word of God (Jesus Christ) had those people who knew Him write down about Him??
That is a problem that He (Jesus Christ) had those who He had write the Scriptures explain in the Scriptures!!!
Jn 5:39*,40 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
So while the Jews had and studied the Scriptures and claimed to believe them, they wound up searching the Scriptures instead of going to Jesus and listening to Him - which often still happens today - people then and now sometimes say they believe the Sacred Writings but they don't actually believed those writings because the writings say we need to hear from Jesus Christ (The Word of God), and they don't. Still He doesn't accuse them but those like Moses do because those like Moses (who wrote Scriptures) were trying to get the people to seek the Word of God (The Christ) and listen to Him just like he (Moses) did. So Moses, who still talks to the Lord today, takes the attitude that he told them - which he did - but people often read and don't believe what they read. They don't believe the Word of God is near them - they think the Word of God was his writings - like can be seen in the OP.
Jesus said:
Jn 5:45-47 “Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
Moses said:
Deut 30:14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.
And Paul explained:
Rom 10:4-8 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Do we believe the Word of God we are preaching is near us - we find Him (Our Lord Jesus Christ) speaking to us in our heart?????
Or are we calling the line upon line of text in the Bible "The Word of God" - If so it is because we are not listening to the Lord!! That too is explained in the Sacred Writing!!
He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,” And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen. So the word of the LORD to them will be,“Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,” That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.
We read the Scriptures, don't listen to the Lord so don't know Him as the Word of God, and wind up calling the line on line of text "The Word of God" just like it was all explained in the line upon lines of text in the Bible and somehow can't see how wrong we are!
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood and His name is called "The Word of God"
So what is the Bible?
The Bible is the Holy Scriptures!!!
That is to say that God had people who heard from Him in the past write things down for Him. Which is to say "The Word of God" (Jesus Christ) spoke to people via His Holy Spirit and told them to write!!! The Word of God (Jesus Christ) had His reasons for doing that - namely to have things written down for Him to use in the future (now and in the past).Therefore the Bible is like a text book the Teacher (Jesus Christ the Word of God) uses to teach us from!
His sheep hear His voice, which comes from His Holy Spirit to our spirit, so that we find His words spoken to us in our heart and sometime in our mouth. We need to pay attention. We need to seek Him, and listen - so that we will know Him as our Teacher, our Wonderful Counselor, as Wisdom, as Understanding, as our friend, and most importantly as our Lord - remembering that a Lord is someone who gives us instructions!
The Word of God (Jesus Christ) is not dead so that we have to go to down to find Him, and the Word of God (Jesus Christ) is not in some far off place called heaven so that we have to find a way to heaven to hear from Him - but the Word of God (Jesus Christ) is near you - in your heart and mouth - and that is the Word of God which we are preaching!!! All that is explained in the Bible - or are we just saying we think the Bible is correct but don't actually believe what the Word of God (Jesus Christ) had those people who knew Him write down about Him??
That is a problem that He (Jesus Christ) had those who He had write the Scriptures explain in the Scriptures!!!
Jn 5:39*,40 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
So while the Jews had and studied the Scriptures and claimed to believe them, they wound up searching the Scriptures instead of going to Jesus and listening to Him - which often still happens today - people then and now sometimes say they believe the Sacred Writings but they don't actually believed those writings because the writings say we need to hear from Jesus Christ (The Word of God), and they don't. Still He doesn't accuse them but those like Moses do because those like Moses (who wrote Scriptures) were trying to get the people to seek the Word of God (The Christ) and listen to Him just like he (Moses) did. So Moses, who still talks to the Lord today, takes the attitude that he told them - which he did - but people often read and don't believe what they read. They don't believe the Word of God is near them - they think the Word of God was his writings - like can be seen in the OP.
Jesus said:
Jn 5:45-47 “Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
Moses said:
Deut 30:14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.
And Paul explained:
Rom 10:4-8 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Do we believe the Word of God we are preaching is near us - we find Him (Our Lord Jesus Christ) speaking to us in our heart?????
Or are we calling the line upon line of text in the Bible "The Word of God" - If so it is because we are not listening to the Lord!! That too is explained in the Sacred Writing!!
He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,” And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen. So the word of the LORD to them will be,“Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,” That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.
We read the Scriptures, don't listen to the Lord so don't know Him as the Word of God, and wind up calling the line on line of text "The Word of God" just like it was all explained in the line upon lines of text in the Bible and somehow can't see how wrong we are!
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
A man who takes words literally.
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
It's not about how we view the Bible, it's about believing and obeying it or not.
The Word of God to me was inspired men of faith who documented down everything that they had heard and seen. That the Bible in its form of the 66 books is accurate and infallible meaning that it holds it's own weight in the words and the context in which is provides evidence for the things of God, the Son of God, and the Prophets of old.
There is all kinds of things that can be learned from many different pictures and types that God has allowed us to be able to have because of the men of faith who decided to document everything down so that people in this day in age would able to see it.
Do believe that it is a bible that is a reference guide for us on how we can live and walk by faith in the spirit of Christ that is given to us by God through our belief of choosing to accept the good news of the Gospel of Christ even the Great news of Jesus conquering over Death, Sin, Hell, Satan, and that the world has been reconciled back to God.
God calls all people to himself through Christ - and some accept, and some reject it is all a choice on the person themselves.
There is all kinds of things that can be learned from many different pictures and types that God has allowed us to be able to have because of the men of faith who decided to document everything down so that people in this day in age would able to see it.
Do believe that it is a bible that is a reference guide for us on how we can live and walk by faith in the spirit of Christ that is given to us by God through our belief of choosing to accept the good news of the Gospel of Christ even the Great news of Jesus conquering over Death, Sin, Hell, Satan, and that the world has been reconciled back to God.
God calls all people to himself through Christ - and some accept, and some reject it is all a choice on the person themselves.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
All that is written in the Bible is Scripture of God: the written truth of God, called the Scripture of truth.
Since faith in the Scriptures is the first step to being wise unto salvation, then not believing all the Bible as Scriptural truth of God is not wise.
Not believing the Bible written today, based upon arguments of manuscripts and translations, is not trusting in the God of the Bible to have His Word written in the world, and then ensuring that written Word is kept uncorrupted in the world.
The Bible itself proves God has done so, because it proves itself to be all Scripture of God, because there is no contradiction within it, and yet was written by many different men over thousands of years.
Since it is not possible for men to have that ability, there must One who guided them all: God.
The God of the Bible is the true God, and His written Word today proves it: no contradictions. No errors of fact. No righteousness that is not righteous and true altogether.
People are free to disagree with it, but there is no intelligent reason for rejecting it all as Scripture of God.
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It seems that you are saying this with a straight face, and missed the last bit of what I had posted.
How do you "display" the bible?
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
No, I got your point. It was a neat play. I just added a straight faced answer to the original question.
According to the Bible - it is supposed to by about believing and obeying Jesus Christ!!
So how does anyone who knows Jesus Christ say it is about about believing and obeying it (the Scriptures)? Have they not read the Scriptures and believed what was written in them was right?
Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
That's believe sin Him - not believes in it!!!
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
So if you are putting your faith in the Scriptures instead of Jesus Christ you are shut up under sin!
Jn 5:39,40 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
Jesus explained, and it is recorded in the Scriptures, that we are not to search the Scriptures for life but we are to turn to Him, which we would do if we believed in Him!
Jn 5:47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
His sheep hear His voice - that small voice of the Lord that comes via the Holy Spirit, because He send the Holy Spirit with His words which we can pick up in our spirit so that the Word of God we who believe in Him find His words nears us, even if we leave our Bible at home, and we find those words from the Holy Spirit in our heart and sometime even in our mouth, because what is in our heart comes our out mouth. And that is the Word of God which we are preaching - That Jesus Christ is our Lord - That He is alive and active! That we do hear from Him! That He gives us instructions, wisdom, counsel, comfort, encouragement, and more. Still - to some He said that with their they didn't hear.
Jn 5:37,38 And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. “You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
Still - some read and still write that it is about believing in it (the Scriptures) instead of believing in Him (Jesus Christ) who the Father testified about and sent! They did not really believe what Moses, John and those who wrote about Him, because they were all trying to get us to believe in Him who they wrote about!!
I have searched many English Bibles. I have purchased over 40 translations. Critics are the problem. Our Bibles are quite consistent. Satan HATES the written Word of God. It exposes him and his children who attack our Christian Bibles, as we have seen here.
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
...and that’s only in English. Now you can start a Chinese collection of the scriptures and when you’ve gone thru those you can check out the the African languages, do you then think you’ll have it down pat?
Now you are also attacking our English Bibles and trying to change the subject at the same time. What are your qualifications for challenging our English Bibles?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
There is something written about how the Lord holds all things together with His hands - So what do we think - that somehow He forgot to hold the Bible together?
We have lots of different translations - maybe some are better for some things and others for others. Indeed, that was often intended from the different translators. We have extremely easy to read and understand version, like the Message or the New Living translations. Or we can get Bible that were intentionally translated using phrases as opposed to word for word, because sometime a phrase give a better translation than trying to find a single word that matches up from one language to the next. You can see that with the NIV Bible. Zondervan intentional did not tryo to translate word for word because they felt having the option to use a phrase was better for understanding. Then there are those which tried to stay closer to a word for word translation, like the KVJ or the NASB. Of course the KJV that I am talking about is certainly not the original 1611 translation! Any language changes over time. The original King James Bible had 73 books like the Catholic Bible and the words used seemed to be quite different than what we think of as a KJV.
The real important thing is not the Bible your are using the rather that you know the Lord Jesus Christ so He can talk to you about what you read in your Bible - and not just your Bible but we need to be hearing from Him in all areas of our lives. Or did we miss the fact that Paul wrote about taking all thoughts captive to Him?
The Lord, shortly after He came into my life, had me open up a Christian bookstore for Him, and while I only ran it for a couple of years before He had me give it to a pastor where I believe it is still going almost 20 years later, I still works with books. So I have a number of Bibles. He sometimes has me use one Bible and sometimes another. I have serval interlinear Bibles, and frankly they don't really come that close to reading like the best word for word translations, even though they really are close to being word for word and you can look up the Greek or Hebrew words if you want. Of course even those languages have changed over the years.
So what bothers me is that people too often get hung up or zealous for their preferred translation or thoughts on the translations instead of getting zealous for Him and what He has to say - about their Bible and about their lives. We need to listen to Him and thus get to know Him as the Word of God in our lives - then star viewing those Bibles He has given us as the text book that He the Teacher sometimes want to review with you His students. We are His students, right?
He once told me:
WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”
My friends - don't tell them to read the Book - tell them to the class - because the book without the Teacher is not going to enable you to make the grade need to pass over!!
Jesus Christ is the Word of God - that is His name!! He is who we are preaching (proclaiming) - and He is not written!! He is a person that we should know and have a personal relationship with!!
We have lots of different translations - maybe some are better for some things and others for others. Indeed, that was often intended from the different translators. We have extremely easy to read and understand version, like the Message or the New Living translations. Or we can get Bible that were intentionally translated using phrases as opposed to word for word, because sometime a phrase give a better translation than trying to find a single word that matches up from one language to the next. You can see that with the NIV Bible. Zondervan intentional did not tryo to translate word for word because they felt having the option to use a phrase was better for understanding. Then there are those which tried to stay closer to a word for word translation, like the KVJ or the NASB. Of course the KJV that I am talking about is certainly not the original 1611 translation! Any language changes over time. The original King James Bible had 73 books like the Catholic Bible and the words used seemed to be quite different than what we think of as a KJV.
The real important thing is not the Bible your are using the rather that you know the Lord Jesus Christ so He can talk to you about what you read in your Bible - and not just your Bible but we need to be hearing from Him in all areas of our lives. Or did we miss the fact that Paul wrote about taking all thoughts captive to Him?
The Lord, shortly after He came into my life, had me open up a Christian bookstore for Him, and while I only ran it for a couple of years before He had me give it to a pastor where I believe it is still going almost 20 years later, I still works with books. So I have a number of Bibles. He sometimes has me use one Bible and sometimes another. I have serval interlinear Bibles, and frankly they don't really come that close to reading like the best word for word translations, even though they really are close to being word for word and you can look up the Greek or Hebrew words if you want. Of course even those languages have changed over the years.
So what bothers me is that people too often get hung up or zealous for their preferred translation or thoughts on the translations instead of getting zealous for Him and what He has to say - about their Bible and about their lives. We need to listen to Him and thus get to know Him as the Word of God in our lives - then star viewing those Bibles He has given us as the text book that He the Teacher sometimes want to review with you His students. We are His students, right?
He once told me:
WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”
My friends - don't tell them to read the Book - tell them to the class - because the book without the Teacher is not going to enable you to make the grade need to pass over!!
Jesus Christ is the Word of God - that is His name!! He is who we are preaching (proclaiming) - and He is not written!! He is a person that we should know and have a personal relationship with!!
The Bible was inspired by God and as such is without errors, but that does not apply to copyists.
Scholars have detected errors in the copying of scripture, they are known, well known.
Translators today like the Jewish copyists take great care in there work.
In any good translation you can see in the footnotes where there are alternative readings or questions about a reading.
It is worth pointing out that there are no questionable passages or words in any key belief passages.
We can trust the Bible we have today.
I totally agree. Nearly all the doctrinal divisions are due to each church having their own personal twists.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Any person who speaks a second language would understand the challenge in conveying meaning by word for word translation.
In many cases translating word for word would render the text a garble and subsequently requires adjustments to make it reasonably readable.....and of course the intent is to hear the master’s voice.
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