The Bible is Father-Centric not Christo-Centric

[JustMe]

Albert Emanuel commits the error many do in arriving at an abstract sophist conclusion.

God and Immanuel,Jesus,are synonymous. Ergo, God out Father and Jesus,Immanuel (God with us) our Savior are one in the Kingdom.

Isaiah 43
I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me. ... I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour. ... I alone am the LORD; only I can rescue you.

Hey sis, on just the subject of Emmanuel, I just opened a thread on 'Names used in the Bible...a work in progress. Check it out, it speaks to Emmanuel, and you might want to reconsider your view of it.'

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Hey sis, on just the subject of Emmanuel, I just opened a thread on 'Names used in the Bible...a work in progress. Check it out, it speaks to Emmanuel, and you might want to reconsider your view of it.'

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: the virgin will conceive and bear a son, and she will call him Immanuel."

Matthew 1:23
Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

If your work in progress does not consider those two passages in God's word there is nothing on my part to reconsider.

I will check out your thread though brother. Thanks.

Edit to add: Here's a link for others too.

Names used in Scripture

In the Bible, names are symbols and represent or personify a characteristic or feature, uniqueness of a person, or place or thing, with or without actually being that person, place or thing. Many names also can be used to reveal different aspects of God's character and are not meant to describe...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Remove the son and the father is obscured?

How is that accomplished? When God is the Son and the Son is The Word, God?

 

[Matthias]

Jesus is focused on his God and Father, not on himself. To tie it in with the OP: Jesus himself is Father-centric, not Messiah-centric.

Unless I missed it, so far no one has come forward to suggest that the Bible is Trinity-centered. It might yet happen but I find it interesting that after two months on a forum where Nicene Christianity is the dominant faith, no one has.

 

[quietthinker]

Is this a big unrealistic and unreasonable? No need to remove the Son, and if the Son never existed and appeared for our salvation, the Father would not have been obscured in the least. He, the Father then would have planned another vehicle for our salvation wouldn't you say? The Son stands or falls based on the graces of his Father. It is the test of understanding of the Bible in thought and action, and how it's written, that it's Father-centric and not Son-centric at all. The Hebrews knew this already. So why did many of influence and in power begin to rethink and change this Hebraic view of the Father over the Son, centuries later?

Colossians 1:19-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

 

[Behold]

Of course Jesus isn't a Catholic. He isn't a Christian at all, Einstein - He's GOD.
Paul, however, was as Catholic as all of the other first century Christians . . .

Paul was neither a Calvinist nor a Catholic.

God births CHRISTIANS........and the MaryCult rebrands them as their denomination ="catholic".
They've deceived a billion just like you, to repeat this nonsense.

 

[David Lamb]

Of course Jesus isn't a Catholic. He isn't a Christian at all, Einstein - He's GOD.
Paul, however, was as Catholic as all of the other first century Christians . . .

The Church established by Jesus and built by the Apostles is the Catholic Church.

That Church - which YOU foolishly refer to as a “cult” is the same Church since the FIRST century. ALL of the Church Fathers were Catholics – and that includes the Apostles.

There have always been heretical groups like the Gnostics, Manicheans, Arrians, Nestorians, etc. However – the REAL splintering came in the 16th century with the Protestant Revolt - with its dozens of doctrinal inventions. YOUR wacky beliefs came out of this confusion . . .

Paul was a Christian. He had none of the distinctives of Catholicism. If he had such distinctives, it's astounding that in none of his letters to local churches that are in our New Testaments does he even mention a pope, auricular confession, praying to Mary or the "saints", vestments, and so on. Nowhere do we read of him advising a church, or an individually Christian, "Well, you had better check with Peter. After all, he is the pope." Not once!

 

[Behold]

That Church - which YOU foolishly refer to as a “cult” is the same Church since the FIRST century.

Christianity is "the Body of Christ".. "the Church".

Every single born again Christian is "the Church".... = each individual Christian.

Now, There is a demonic cult that took a word........that means """universal""", and tried to create the illusion that IT is the Entire body of Christ.
= Its not......its just one more denomination, that has an obsession with Mary., and had literally murdered more Human Beings worldwide then any other Cult, other then Marxism, or Islam.

 

[JustMe]

Unless I missed it, so far no one has come forward to suggest that the Bible is Trinity-centered. It might yet happen but I find it interesting that after two months on a forum where Nicene Christianity is the dominant faith, no one has.

I have to give it to you, and it was always there in plain site. You exposed the elephant in the room that really in truth most folks knew about already, although they deliberately skirted around it, not to expose it fragile construction that will not stand up to scrutiny in the word of God. Bravo!

 

[Matthias]

I have to give it to you, and it was always there in plain site. You exposed the elephant in the room that really in truth most folks knew about already, although they deliberately skirted around it, not to expose it fragile construction that will not stand up to scrutiny in the word of God. Bravo!

That was unanticipated. I don’t know what to say but I feel that I must say something. Thank you.

Do Compliments Make You Cringe? Here’s Why.

If receiving a compliment makes you uncomfortable, you aren’t alone. Around 70% of people in a survey associated feelings of embarrassment and discomfort with praise. Why do we feel this way? It starts with surprise. Our body’s physiological responses to an unexpected event follow a predictable...

hbr.org

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Unless I missed it, so far no one has come forward to suggest that the Bible is Trinity-centered. It might yet happen but I find it interesting that after two months on a forum where Nicene Christianity is the dominant faith, no one has.

Maybe because of the word, Consubstantial, in the Nicene creed.

 

[Matthias]

Maybe because of the word, Consubstantial, in the Nicene creed.

Food for thought.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Paul was a Christian. He had none of the distinctives of Catholicism. If he had such distinctives, it's astounding that in none of his letters to local churches that are in our New Testaments does he even mention a pope, auricular confession, praying to Mary or the "saints", vestments, and so on. Nowhere do we read of him advising a church, or an individually Christian, "Well, you had better check with Peter. After all, he is the pope." Not once!

To make this claim to show your ignorance of ALL things Catholic . . .

Paul wasn’t a “Lone wolf” preacher who made up his own rules. He sought the counsel of the other Apostles.

Are you forgetting the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), where he and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss the matter of the Judaizers with them? They decided - as a GROUP as to the best way to deal with the matter.

- Paul preached the Real Presence in the Eucharist (1 Cor 10:16 , 1 Cor. 11:27-30).

- He believed in Baptismal Regeneration (Acts 19:1-7, Acts 22:16)

- He believed in a sacramental Priesthood and instructed others to appoint (Acts 14:21-23 Titus 1:5).

- He was against “denominations” (1 Cor 1:10).

- He practiced in self-denial and mortification of the flesh (1 Cor. 9:27, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24)

Paul was a Catholic.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Paul was neither a Calvinist nor a Catholic.

God births CHRISTIANS........and the MaryCult rebrands them as their denomination ="catholic".
They've deceived a billion just like you, to repeat this nonsense.

And I’ve already shown you documented proof that the Catholic Church was the Apostolic church in the FIRST century.
To read this evidence then simply pretend it doesn’t exist as YOU do is to live in a pathetic state of denial.

You can regurgitate your “Marycult” nonsense until the cows come home – but history is ALWAYS your enemy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Christianity is "the Body of Christ".. "the Church".

Every single born again Christian is "the Church".... = each individual Christian.

And MANY of them are self-separated from the Church.

The Church is NOT each individual. It is the BODY of Christ (Cil 1:18).
The Church is the SUM of its PARTS (1 Cor. 12).

Now, There is a demonic cult that took a word........that means """universal""", and tried to create the illusion that IT is the Entire body of Christ.

Time for another Bible Lesson . . .

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

= Its not......its just one more denomination, that has an obsession with Mary., and had literally murdered more Human Beings worldwide then any other Cult, other then Marxism, or Islam.

And there were PLENTY of Catholics murdered by Protestants.
Does that make Protestants a "cult"?

Take a History Class, son . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Unless I missed it, so far no one has come forward to suggest that the Bible is Trinity-centered. It might yet happen but I find it interesting that after two months on a forum where Nicene Christianity is the dominant faith, no one has.

God is a Trinity . . .

The Trinity, as Shown in Scripture
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Matt. 28:19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

1 Cor. 12:4-6
"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons."

2 Cor. 13:14,
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE are ONE.

The Father is God
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Psalm 68:5
Father of the fatherless and protector of widows is God in his holy habitation.

Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Isaiah 63:16
For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 8:41
You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”

1 Thessalonians 3:13
So that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus.

Rev. 1:8
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "the one who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty".

Jesus is God
Isaiah 7:14
All right then, the Lord himself will give

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Matt. 4:7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.

John 1:3
ALL things were made by HIM (Jesus); and without him was not ANY thing made that was made.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one."

John 14:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”

2 Corinthians 4:4
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Philippians 2:6
...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Colossians 2:9
...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8 / Psalm 45:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Titus 2:13
“… while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

Rev. 22:13
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end".
(This claim of “Alpha and the Omega” is attributed to the Lord God in Rev.1:8)

The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you *ANOTHER Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
*This word in Greek means, “another of the SAME kind.”

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU?

John 14:23
Jesus replied: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.

Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."

Nobody said the Holy Spirit is a man/male. However - He IS a distinct person. The Bible shows that the Holy Spirit as has a mind (1 Cor. 2:10-11), feelings (Eph. 4:30), and a will (1 Cor. 12:11). These are ALL characteristics of a person.

 

[Matthias]

God is a Trinity . . .

The Trinity, as Shown in Scripture
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Matt. 28:19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

1 Cor. 12:4-6
"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons."

2 Cor. 13:14,
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE are ONE.

The Father is God
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Psalm 68:5
Father of the fatherless and protector of widows is God in his holy habitation.

Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Isaiah 63:16
For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 8:41
You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”

1 Thessalonians 3:13
So that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus.

Rev. 1:8
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "the one who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty".

Jesus is God
Isaiah 7:14
All right then, the Lord himself will give

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Matt. 4:7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.

John 1:3
ALL things were made by HIM (Jesus); and without him was not ANY thing made that was made.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one."

John 14:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”

2 Corinthians 4:4
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Philippians 2:6
...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Colossians 2:9
...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8 / Psalm 45:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Titus 2:13
“… while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

Rev. 22:13
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end".
(This claim of “Alpha and the Omega” is attributed to the Lord God in Rev.1:8)

The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you *ANOTHER Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
*This word in Greek means, “another of the SAME kind.”

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU?

John 14:23
Jesus replied: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.

Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."

Nobody said the Holy Spirit is a man/male. However - He IS a distinct person. The Bible shows that the Holy Spirit as has a mind (1 Cor. 2:10-11), feelings (Eph. 4:30), and a will (1 Cor. 12:11). These are ALL characteristics of a person.

Every passage of scripture you quoted when properly explained fits perfectly with the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

To make this claim to show your ignorance of ALL things Catholic . . .

Paul wasn’t a “Lone wolf” preacher who made up his own rules. He sought the counsel of the other Apostles.

Are you forgetting the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), where he and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss the matter of the Judaizers with them? They decided - as a GROUP as to the best way to deal with the matter.

- Paul preached the Real Presence in the Eucharist (1 Cor 10:16 , 1 Cor. 11:27-30).

- He believed in Baptismal Regeneration (Acts 19:1-7, Acts 22:16)

- He believed in a sacramental Priesthood and instructed others to appoint (Acts 14:21-23 Titus 1:5).

- He was against “denominations” (1 Cor 1:10).

- He practiced in self-denial and mortification of the flesh (1 Cor. 9:27, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24)

Paul was a Catholic.

Where's the passages espousing belief in Limbo and Purgatory? Where are the scriptures referring to relics,intercession by the dead on behalf of the living? Where are the verses that establish and defend graven imagery of the dead ?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Where's the passages espousing belief in Limbo and Purgatory? Where are the scriptures referring to relics,intercession by the dead on behalf of the living? Where are the verses that establish and defend graven imagery of the dead ?

Deal with the ones I DID give you - THEN, I'll explain the rest . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Every passage of scripture you quoted when properly explained fits perfectly with the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism.

Then, EXPLAIN them.
I'm not going anywhere . . .