The Bible is Father-Centric not Christo-Centric
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Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
That is the words of Jesus, remember, I said that up front. So you are lying, just like Satan does. You can't even argue with John 10:28. You just made up a statement, hence, a lie.
No. I’m a native eastern Kentuckian. Appalachian is my first language. My Hebrew and Greek language professor in college said in class one day that I speak “Hillbilly Greek and Hillbilly Hebrew” - we still laugh about it to this day.
As a matter of fact, I do.
Sister-n-Christ
Well-Known Member
Do you take from what he said (and what Philip said), regardless of why he (and Philip) said it, that the Son of God is literally the Father himself?
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I quote the bible verse. Yes, Philip asked the question, but Jesus did say, if you have seen Him, you have seen the Father
Sister-n-Christ
Well-Known Member
Rules say I'm not allowed to comment on the veracity of Trinitarian ideology.
Okay. Thanks.
You asked me why what was said was said. Returning to that, my answer to your question is because the Son of God is the perfect, unblemished, image of the Father; Jesus and his God / my God, the Father, aren’t the same person.
That leaves me knowing that you aren’t a trinitarian (which I’ve known since you became a member) and having to make an informed decision without your confirmation whether you would or you wouldn’t. I don’t think it’s hard to read between the lines in this case. Let everyone be convinced in their own mind.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
That's correct. They are one, but not the same personality. I've talked to all three, but only two spoke to me. Even Jesus wouldn't let me know His real name.
Which person didn’t speak to you? How did you know you were speaking to Jesus, and did he speak to you? Why wouldn’t Jesus let you know his real name?
Have you ever read Forensic Faith, written by J. Warner Wallace? I’m reading it now. Pretty good, so far.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Do you know, or have any ideas about, why the Father didn’t speak to you?
I think you’d enjoy reading it.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
No. I don't think the Father talks to Humans. Because we are sinners and He cannot acknowledge us; Until we are in our immortal bodies, then we will see the Father.
Thanks. With your background I had assumed - that’s on me, not you - that you would know and say that Yahweh is the Father (see the concession made to Jewish monotheism by Ben Witherington - a trinitarian scholar who works at Asbury University in Wilmore, KY - whom I’ve quoted several times in other threads) and that the Father speaks with great regularity to men and to angels in the Bible.
I’m trying to evaluate what you’re telling about your personal experience, not talk you out of it.
@Rockerduck, what did Jesus say to you? What did the Holy Spirit say to you? If it’s too personal to share then please let me know and we can talk about something else.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Many confuse who they hear. The Holy Spirit speaks the most to anyone, because He is in us. John 16:13 and the Holy Spirit only speaks what He hears and speech is only audible to you. Jesus speaks in plain talk in dreams and visions and can be intimidating because it is something important. But like Paul on the road to Damascus, Jesus can put you in your place fast, with thunder. I believe Jesus is Yahweh, because of the burning bush. I am, that I am. Then in the gospel of John, Jesus said "I am" 7 times. His first was "I am the light of the World".
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Over on the dreams and visions forum, I list a dream or vision as I get them, I wrote several over 3 yrs time. They are for all to see. The Holy Spirit tells me personal things. Sometimes what not to eat, and to throw away the drugs my doctor prescribed, because He said the drugs were making me sicker. Mostly the Holy Spirit tells me future events, I write them down and they can come true in a week or 2 yrs. That's the personal stuff.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit have both told me to warn everyone that the end is coming soon and Satan has been turned loose to deceive as many as he can. Jesus said, "before it gets Low, says the Lord," to me, to warn the world.
Did you read and take the OP seriously and not lightly, as a joke I read? Do you find most people acknowledging the Father as the source of the Son's power in perform miracles, and overcoming his many obstacles as a man, and that caused him to become successful in his mission to the Cross? You may, although most do not today. I agree with the OP myself. It's time to given credit where credit is due. Give to the Son what is his due and to the Father the overall glory for bringing entire plan of salvation to mankind.
Jesus came to glorify his Father by speaking of his Kingdom and salvation, and of course his self-sacrifice in the Cross, and that Jesus did not conceive himself, it was all the Father's doing. If the Father decided to provide another way to salvation by another method, rather than use his Son, he could have done so. That is the real test of one's understanding of who is the Father, our God, as compared to the Son, and why the Father is far more important.
This is what the OP is all about. I hope you can see your way to know that this Father-Centric idea is not new, as the Christocentric idea is definitely novel, The Father was the original focus by Hebrews and the Israelites. The Son was prophesied to appear as he did, later. And because the Son later appeared should not change a thing, although it has, especially in this last generation. Now Jesus seems to get the credit the Father is due.
Is this a big unrealistic and unreasonable? No need to remove the Son, and if the Son never existed and appeared for our salvation, the Father would not have been obscured in the least. He, the Father then would have planned another vehicle for our salvation wouldn't you say? The Son stands or falls based on the graces of his Father. It is the test of understanding of the Bible in thought and action, and how it's written, that it's Father-centric and not Son-centric at all. The Hebrews knew this already. So why did many of influence and in power begin to rethink and change this Hebraic view of the Father over the Son, centuries later?
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