Thats the only way you prove yours..Is this the only way you can prove you're false doctrine by spinning or adding to scripture?
The Bible on Hell (as Tartarus and Gehenna and Hades)
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Yeah, every man who built upon the foundation of christ, BTW this is speaking about teachers only..thats what paul was speaking about: 1 cor 3: 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we[Christian Teachers] are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. [ the people who are the building pieces are not the Teachers themselves] 10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Paul is discussing the work of christian teachers at corinth.. The non elect, the children of the devil, cant build anything upon the foundation of Jesus christ, thats blasphemy .. All your doing is twisting scripture to serve your non scriptural purpose..your not a teacher from God..never have been and never will be..
Who has mentioned anything about pagan mythology; I AM USING God Word you are the one not using God Word with your so called second coming which are not scriptural. I really did not interpret anything; I quoted you about thirty different verse that shows us all of there are many ways the Lord is returning; I guarantee if I go in depth like I did with clouds I would be using God’s Word not tradition or pagan or private interpretation as you claim.Forget historical context that was the Jews mistake as well as relying on the traditions of their elders; what we need is revelation of God’s spirit with in us. I do not read the Bible literally it is spiritual; spiritual is progressive. Wow I love this statement; you said “but the Bible should only be interpreted within the context of the tradition of the Church”. What Church? Yours?"Paraouisa" A Big Amen we agree on something.[quote name='Deadwheat1224;72149]"My friends' date=' read what the Bible says, dont put private interpretations or traditions from pagan mythology, read and understand. Lets take a look at how Christ will return at the Second Coming...."The Bible cannot be read well without looking at the historical context and point of view in which the author wrote it. If you read the Bible strictly literally there are so many contradictions that either you have to ignore or make up some strange reason as to why they are there. I know that most people on this board will disagree with this... but the Bible should only be interpreted within the context of the tradition of the Church ( 1Timothy 3: 15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. )Secondly Benoni,"There is NO second coming" ---While I think I see your point of ongoing revelation, and I myself do not subscribe to the belief of the rapture, Paul does speak often of the "Paraouisa" which is the "Return" of Christ. I'm not sure you're completely ruling this out, but I thought I'd point it out.Peace[/QUOTE']
This ought to be a nice long thread. We have two people who always double post. Benoni and savedbygrace57.We have only two that agree with each other somewhat. Now for the rapture thing, should I pack my bags, or just wait. I am getting two different stories here, and don't tell me I can't take it with me. I just built this computer!!!Jesus Is Lord
My brother, you are fighting against what Christ himself told us.He never told us there was a "second coming" or rapture?
The problem is God is not calling the unjust now; if God does not call you you cannot come. Besides God's fire will try every man's works in the Lake of fire; now or later.
savedbygrace57;72157]Yeah said:
"The problem is God is not calling the unjust now; if God does not call you you cannot come. "God calls all people."What Church? Yours?"The Church which was established by Christ and His Apostles... which yes, is my Church. I don't expect you to agree with me on that though.As far as Parousia... it is (as you seem to know) the Greek term for the return of a king. Concerning Christ, it is almost exclusively used in an "eschatological" (end time) sense to mean the point in which Jesus returns for a final time to Abolish time and establish new heaven, earth, and hell... For all intensive purposes... it's a "second coming..."
"Second coming"????
:If God calls you, you have no choice…….God is calling out a people to do His will; only His firstfruits each in the own order/arrangement/troop 1 Corinthians 15:22-2422For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:If God does not call you, you cannot come.(Acts 2:39)"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
:If God calls you, you have no choice…….God is calling out a people to do His will; only His firstfruits each in the own order/arrangement/troop 1 Corinthians 15:22-2422For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:If God does not call you, you cannot come.(Acts 2:39)"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.""If God calls you, you have no choice…….God is calling out a people to do His will; only His firstfruits each in the own order/arrangement/troop"It's not saying that God doesn't call everyone... He does. It's saying "in order" like you said... but maybe i'm just misunderstanding what you're saying. In my opinion, This goes back to the idea of Parousia: When a king would enter a city, he would go along the Primary entry road, along which graves of the deceased were typically established. The ones who had died first would be farther out along the road. Basically what this is saying is that those who died first will be resurrected first, and those whom are still alive when Jesus returns, will be resurrected (ie, receive their new bodies) last.
I see it speaking of the Acts 15:16-1816 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:17 That the residue (remainder) of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the worKJV [quote name='Deadwheat1224;72170]"If God calls you' date=' you have no choice…….God is calling out a people to do His will; only His firstfruits each in the own order/arrangement/troop"It's not saying that God doesn't call everyone... He does. It's saying "in order" like you said... but maybe i'm just misunderstanding what you're saying. In my opinion, This goes back to the idea of Parousia: When a king would enter a city, he would go along the Primary entry road, along which graves of the deceased were typically established. The ones who had died first would be farther out along the road. Basically what this is saying is that those who died first will be resurrected first, and those whom are still alive when Jesus returns, will be resurrected (ie, receive their new bodies) last.[/QUOTE']
I think that topic should taken to another thread or started as another one, as this one is basically on Hell and what the Bible says on it. Here is a good explanation on 'gehenna' by by Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi.. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus states that whoever says to his brother “‘you fool!’ shall be liable to the hell [gehenna] of fire” (Matt 5:22; KJV). Again, He said that it is better to pluck out the eye or cut off the hand that causes a person to sin than for the “whole body go into hell [gehenna] (Matt 5:29, 30). The same thought is expressed later on: it is better to cut off a foot or a hand or pluck out an eye that causes a person to sin than to “be thrown into eternal fire . . . be thrown into the hell [gehenna] of fire” (Matt 18:8, 9). Here the fire of hell is described as “eternal.” The same saying is found in Mark where three times Jesus says thatit is better to cut off the offending organ than “to go to hell [gehenna], to the unquenchable fire . . . to be thrown into hell [gehenna], where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44, 46, 47-48). Elsewhere, Jesus chides the Pharisees for traversing sea and land to makea convert and then making him “twice as much a child of hell [gehenna]”(Matt 23:15). Finally, he warns the Pharisees that they will not “escapebeing sentenced to hell [gehenna]” (Matt 23:33).In reviewing Christ’s allusions to hell–gehenna, we should firstnote that none of them indicates that hell–gehenna is a place of unendingtorment. What is eternal or unquenchable is not the punishment, butthe fire. We noted earlier that in the Old Testament this fire is eternal orunquenchable in the sense that it totally consumes dead bodies. This conclusion is supported by Christ’s warning that we should not fear humanbeings who can harm the body, but the One “who can destroy both souland body in hell [gehenna]” (Matt 10:28). The implication is clear. Hellis the place of final punishment which results in the total destruction ofthe whole being, soul and body.
There are some who argue that the fire must be a literal place of burning and torture, because it is often associated with "brimstone." Revelation 21:8 says, 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Does the "brimstone" prove that this is a literal fire that tortures men? Actually, the very opposite is true. Brimstone is sulphur, as any concordance will show. The original Greek word for sulphur, or "brimstone," is theion. Its root is theo, which is the same word usually translated "God." (Note: Theology is the study of God.) Sulphur, or theion, was considered to be sacred to the ancient Greeks. It was used to consecrate for divine service, to PURIFY, and to cleanse. They used it in religious rites to purify their temples. They would even rub it on their bodies to signify consecration to God. In its verb form the word theou means "to hallow, make divine, or to dedicate to God." And so, to a Greek reader, a lake of fire and brimstone (sulphur) would signify a lake of divine purification or consecration to God. This "fire and sulphur," taken symbolically by the more educated or by the higher degrees of religion, was only literalized by the uneducated. The priests generally allowed them to be deceived, of course, because they also believed that fear of fire was a good religious motivator. The early Christian Church of the first few centuries after Christ knew this. This is shown by their writings. Unfortunately, some also believed in "the doctrine of Reserve." That is, they would withhold some teachings from the novices until they were mature Christians. They did this specifically with the teaching on the lake of fire, allowing novices to take their words literally, rather than spiritually, so that they would be better motivated to turn to Christ. Exactly how much this contributed to the rise of hellfire teaching is hard to say, but it certainly was a factor. They may have justified such a practice in their minds, but with our modern 20/20 hindsight we can see where it led the Church in later years. Logabe
Again...Gehenna addresses only the word "brother" never does it address sinners, the unjust, the lost. All the laws of nature shout that it is not! More than 2500 years ago the Holy Spirit warned the wicked inhabitants of Jerusalem that God would kindle a fire at Jerusalem's gates which would devour her palaces. "But if you will not hearken unto Me ... then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not he quenched" (Jer. 17:27). Did not God say this fire "shall NOT BE QUENCHED?" This prophecy was fulfilled and the fire did occur a few years later and it did destroy all the houses of Jerusalem (Jer. 52:13). Since God said no person or thing would "quench" this fire, did that mean that it would burn for ever? Since it accomplished the work it was sent to do, and since it is NOT BURNING TODAY, it obviously went out by itself after accomplishing its purpose! Unquenchable fire is not eternal fire - it is simply fire that cannot be put out until it has consumed or changed everything it is possible for it to change! It then simply goes out, for there is nothing more to burn. Yet I hear the preachers ranting and raving about poor souls being cast into hell fire where "their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" and this, we are told, means eternal, unending torment. How foolish, illogical, and deceptive! Such a view contradicts the plain meaning of the term "unquenchable" and its use in the Word of God. Are the judgments of God permanent? Isaiah says, "When Your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness" (Isa. 26:9). And Mat. 12:20 says, "A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench, till He send forth judgment unto victory." Judgment, therefore, is not an eternal condition, but it is given to produce that victory. Judgments of themselves do not save anyone, but they are used by God to bring one to one's self, to effect a change of attitude and will, to consume away the stubbornness and rebellion of men. Punishment by fire is a beneficent one. "Our GOD is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). The basic purpose of this divine fire of God is to cleanse, purify, purge, temper and change. It is to rid of impurities, of filth, of undesirable elements. There is no better way to deal with filth than to deal with it by fire.
Many passages of Scripture attest to the complete annihilation of the wicked in the lake of fire: "By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed." "let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." "And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed." "but the wicked shall perish,...they shall be consumed; into smoke shall they consume away" (Job 4:9; Psalm 104:35; Isaiah 1:28; Psalm 37:20) There are clear texts in the Bible on the total destruction of the ungodly ones: the wicked shall perish (Psalm 37:20); will be destroyed (Psalm 145:20); shall die (Ezekiel 18:4); shall be devoured (Psalm 21:9); shall not be any more (Psalm 37:10); shall be cut off (Proverbs 2:22); shall be turned into ashes (Malachi 4:3); shall consume away as smoke (Psalm 37:20); shall melt as wax (Psalm 68:2); those who don’t believe in the only begotten Son of God will perish (John 3:16), for “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). It is not just a brother, but to all who allow sin to remain in their lives, that is why Christ gives a way to cleanse the sin to those who accept His gift of eternal life. The wicked do not accept His gift and thus end up in the lake of fire.
The problem is the lake of fire in what you are missing is one very important point it is spiritual and symbolic not literal; you see it is only mentioned int the Book of Revelation. The Book of Revelationis the most spiritual book in the whole Bible and john was in spirit. yes God will burn up the sin, wood-hay and stubble, the chaff; BUT not the people..:)
Hobie;72670][COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Many passages of Scripture attest to the complete annihilation of the wicked in the lake of fire:[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=2][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]"By the blast of God they perish said:
Benoni;72695]The problem is the lake of fire in what you are missing is one very important point it is spiritual and symbolic not literal; you see it is only mentioned int the Book of Revelation. The Book of Revelationis the most spiritual book in the whole Bible and john was in spirit. yes God will burn up the sin said:
Let me start with wheat and chaff and give you a small lesson on farming. Take the wheat and the chaff is the same plant; the chaff is the outer (flesh), the wheat is the hidden grain until it becomes mature. You cannot separate the two until the time of harvest; the reason the chaff is being burnt up is because God had a purpose for it and that purpose has ended (the chaff was our flesh; what God is after is the hidden grain of wheat our spirit). So what the wheat and chaff are refereeing to is the outer flesh, and the inner spirit. Satan is not Lucifer; no where is there any reference to this false religious doctrine in the Bible. Satan cannot not have two beginnings. Satan cas created by God not as an angel but a liar. Great subject for debate.Yes the soul shall die but not the spirit. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. God will annihilate sin; but not the people.
You obviously are lack of understanding my post... and I'll leave it as that.Spirit and Soul... same thing.
I may disagree, but I totally understood you're post. Could you show me in scripture where the soul and the spirit are the same thing? Or are you assuming this?Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.A soul is your mind your intellect and your reason. You spirit is your essence of your being that part of you made in God’s image; the part of you is undefiled by this earth and the sin of Adam. But let us look at scripture..Notice two things happened on two different days. Created/sixth day… formed/seventh day Sixth day27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Seventh dayGenesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Jordan;72709 said:
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