The Bible: One of the Believer's Biggest Problems

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Let me point out just a few of the issues of contention below:

1. The plan of salvation
- By grace thru faith alone (Romans 10:9-10)?
- Repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38)?
- is baptism immersion?
- is baptism simply sprinkling

Your issue is that you are confusing what some Cults teach, with what Paul teaches.

Cults always rant about water, law, and self effort, VS, what God offers as "the gift of Salvation"

So, there is no confusion, unless you are confused by a Cult, and that is why the devil created them all.

He's the father of strife, deception, and confusion, especially Theological.
 

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Bible presents a very broad general narrative many believe and have built varying beliefs systems around. Yet, the book is very ambiguous, at times contradictory, and downright confusing regarding numerous religious subjects that would appear to be of upmost importance. Such ambiguity appears to clearly demonstrate that the writings are the musings of men, however, many still attribute its contents to a deity figure. Why?!

Let me point out just a few of the issues of contention below:

1. The plan of salvation
- By grace thru faith alone (Romans 10:9-10)?
- Repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38)?
- is baptism immersion?
- is baptism simply sprinkling

2. The role of the church vs. Sola Scriptura

3. Should any part of the OT Law be kept? (Matthew 5:18)

4. Apostolic succession and the Papacy (Matthew 16:18)

5. Dispensationalism vs. Amillennialism vs. Preterism
- with each able to use scripture in some form or fashion to support what they promote

These are but a few internal issues a couple thousand years have not been able to provide clarify on and there are many others. Again, with such doubletalk and ambiguity, WHY Oh WHY would it not be obvious that human authorship is all over the pages. The Bible is just so..................... human

I pray that God will open your eyes and clear up your confusion. God is not the author of confusion. (1 Corinthians 14:33)
 

Truth OT

Active Member
Oct 24, 2019
424
68
28
44
Cypress
Faith
Agnostic
Country
United States
Your issue is that you are confusing what some Cults teach, with what Paul teaches.
Oh so if someone "interprets" the bible differently than you they are influenced by a cult. I think I get it now, pompous bias......
 

Truth OT

Active Member
Oct 24, 2019
424
68
28
44
Cypress
Faith
Agnostic
Country
United States
only the Father can pass on the Adamic curse because only the Father is the “federal head of the family” (like Adam). Just as the Father passes on the Family name, so too, the Father passes on the family curse.
Made up drivel. Where's the proof?
 

Christ4Me

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2022
1,344
263
83
60
Pennsylvania / Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Bible presents a very broad general narrative many believe and have built varying beliefs systems around. Yet, the book is very ambiguous, at times contradictory, and downright confusing regarding numerous religious subjects that would appear to be of upmost importance. Such ambiguity appears to clearly demonstrate that the writings are the musings of men, however, many still attribute its contents to a deity figure. Why?!

Let me point out just a few of the issues of contention below:

1. The plan of salvation
- By grace thru faith alone (Romans 10:9-10)?

This is true.


- Repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38)?
- is baptism immersion?
- is baptism simply sprinkling

Water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow publicly in identifying themselves as His disciples.

Although you will have believers arguing for water baptism due to Peter interjecting that in between Repent and the remission of sins, thinking water baptism is meant for the remission of sins, they ignore this same Peter saying clearly that believing in Him is for the remission of sins to the Gentiles. Thus "repent" as in repenting from unbelief by believing in Him is the call for the Jews to actually receive their remission of sins as they were the Jews that were pricked in their hearts for crucifying Jesus in unbelief.

The irony is that connecting your reference but including Romans 10:9-13 where verse 13 is about all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, Peter had mentioned that earlier in that sermon to the Jews in verse 21 in Acts 2:14-21.

Some believers are dogmatic that they have it right regardless of the preponderous of scripture saying otherwise, but it is on God to cause the increase to help them see the truth in His words that we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

2. The role of the church vs. Sola Scriptura

The good fight is keeping the faith with His help, and so by Jesus Christ, we are to prove or reprove everything the church teaches by the scripture. Individual believers are to do that because a church would never lead itself into a reformation, even though it should in setting the example for other churches to follow. 1 Thessalonians 5:21-25 2 Timothy 3:12-17 Ephesians 4:11-15

3. Should any part of the OT Law be kept? (Matthew 5:18)

For salvation? No. Acts 15:1-20

Those who insist on keeping the sabbath should not do it to obtain salvation by as the Jews were seeking to keep the commandments for under the Old Covenant. Matthew 19:16-26

For abiding in Him as His disciples, these 2 commandments in verse 23 pretty much coves all the rest. 1 John 3:22-24

4. Apostolic succession and the Papacy (Matthew 16:18)

Jesus did not credit Peter for saying that about Him being the Christ, the Son of the living God. He gave that credit to the father that revealed that truth to Peter. A short while later, Peter got possessed by Satan ( Matthew 16:18-23 ) and so hardly a ringing endorsement for Peter starting a church that the gates of hell will not prevail against. It is on what Peter has said is how that Church will be built on that rock which is Christ ( 1 Corinthians 10:4 ) Indeed, it is Jesus that has the keys to the gates of hell and death Revelation 1:17-18

Christ as the Word of God is the Head of every believer and every church, no one else. 1 Corinthians 11:3 & Ephesians 5:23

5. Dispensationalism vs. Amillennialism vs. Preterism
- with each able to use scripture in some form or fashion to support what they promote

I have not wade through all of that myself with the Lord yet, but if that bothers you, one thing you can do with Him is make sure no scripture opposes the truth in other scripture because if it does, they are not rightly dividing the word of truth yet in making full proof of their ministry.

These are but a few internal issues a couple thousand years have not been able to provide clarify on and there are many others. Again, with such doubletalk and ambiguity, WHY Oh WHY would it not be obvious that human authorship is all over the pages. The Bible is just so..................... human

Jesus validated scripture as being of the truth.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

So believers may take verses out of context for what the truth in His words were intended ad you can discern that when it opposes truth in other scriptures plainly written like they did for believing water baptism was for the remission of sins when believing in Jesus Christ clearly was.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.... 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

So trust Jesus Christ today to be your Good Shepherd & Friend to help you to abide in Him & His words for following Him. He will do it.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,895
19,470
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The Bible presents a very broad general narrative many believe and have built varying beliefs systems around. Yet, the book is very ambiguous, at times contradictory, and downright confusing regarding numerous religious subjects that would appear to be of upmost importance. Such ambiguity appears to clearly demonstrate that the writings are the musings of men, however, many still attribute its contents to a deity figure. Why?!

Let me point out just a few of the issues of contention below:

1. The plan of salvation
- By grace thru faith alone (Romans 10:9-10)?
- Repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38)?
- is baptism immersion?
- is baptism simply sprinkling

2. The role of the church vs. Sola Scriptura

3. Should any part of the OT Law be kept? (Matthew 5:18)

4. Apostolic succession and the Papacy (Matthew 16:18)

5. Dispensationalism vs. Amillennialism vs. Preterism
- with each able to use scripture in some form or fashion to support what they promote

These are but a few internal issues a couple thousand years have not been able to provide clarify on and there are many others. Again, with such doubletalk and ambiguity, WHY Oh WHY would it not be obvious that human authorship is all over the pages. The Bible is just so..................... human

Quite the opposite. The bible is out of reach of human understanding. If the bible was concocted by men then there would be an easy to follow logic...much like the modern gospel that is an invention of men.

So the truth is safe. No one can tamper with it. All of your concerns are legitimate...even informed. But the truth is a polarity that ONLY holds together by getting things in right balance.
 

Desire Of All Nations

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2021
748
408
63
Troy
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Bible does not contradict itself. Everything that is taught in the Bible is simple to understand, provided that the reader reads it without bias. The contention comes from "Christians" refusing to believe what the Bible clearly says because their personal beliefs and traditions are too important to them to abandon, not God's supposed inability to make His doctrines clear.

A prime example of this is the fact that 1 Cor. 1 teaches against the existence of denominations in no uncertain terms, yet Catholics and Protestants disregard it and resort to using philosophical psychobabble to justify their disregard for what it is an unmistakably clear teaching.
 

Christ4Me

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2022
1,344
263
83
60
Pennsylvania / Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Bible does not contradict itself. Everything that is taught in the Bible is simple to understand, provided that the reader reads it without bias. The contention comes from "Christians" refusing to believe what the Bible clearly says because their personal beliefs and traditions are too important to them to abandon, not God's supposed inability to make His doctrines clear.

A prime example of this is the fact that 1 Cor. 1 teaches against the existence of denominations in no uncertain terms, yet Catholics and Protestants disregard it and resort to using philosophical psychobabble to justify their disregard for what it is an unmistakably clear teaching.

There are 7 churches in Revelation and they did not all speak the same thing, with 5 in trouble with the Lord & 2 exhorted to hold fast till He comes.

Granted these churches were identified by location rather than by a theology for why I would agree with you that it can be a problem when one discovers the theology is not all correct and the church needs to repent of iniquity. or else as the Lord did give 5 of those 7 churches warnings to depart from iniquity or else.
 

KevinKret86

New Member
Feb 12, 2022
9
2
3
37
Daytona Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Bible presents a very broad general narrative many believe and have built varying beliefs systems around. Yet, the book is very ambiguous, at times contradictory, and downright confusing regarding numerous religious subjects that would appear to be of upmost importance. Such ambiguity appears to clearly demonstrate that the writings are the musings of men, however, many still attribute its contents to a deity figure. Why?!

I think that you are relying on your own knowledge and belieing that you can gleam from your own from studying the Bible.

The truth is that you might want to read and practice theology so that you can learn the context for which these writings are written.

A good way to learn this is from

Christian radio
Christian television
And internet sources too

(using YouTube helps alot. Here is a YouTube channel I've found today: https://youtube.com/c/GCBIMedia)
 

KevinKret86

New Member
Feb 12, 2022
9
2
3
37
Daytona Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yet, the book is very ambiguous, at times contradictory, and downright confusing regarding numerous religious subjects that would appear to be of upmost importance. Such ambiguity appears to clearly demonstrate that the writings are the musings of men, however, many still attribute its contents to a deity figure. Why?!

Two things that I can leave you to ponder are that:

1. Not everything you see is real.

-I don't know how to explain it other then that God appears as Spirit to some people and uses on people so that he can get us to grow.

I recommend that you read a lot of Christian books. It will help your foundation in Jesus Christ and his purpose in your life to have better knowledge and wisdom.

2. Not every story you believe in the Bible is Historical... some of them are Artifacts of History that are meant to be either there for learning or there to be appreciated poetically.

The Bible has to be able to reach the most people in order that everyone can be saved. Some of it isn't for the "average Joe or Jane" but for people with obscure problems that God can help with.

Also, I believe that God's world is entirely good, meaning if you hear stories about the world that are bad, it never actually happened, but is of the spirit, used by God for benevolent purposes.
 

Christ4Me

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2022
1,344
263
83
60
Pennsylvania / Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Two things that I can leave you to ponder are that:

1. Not everything you see is real.

-I don't know how to explain it other then that God appears as Spirit to some people and uses on people so that he can get us to grow.

We are always Spirit-filled since salvation per Matthew 9:17 for why we would never seek to be filled again after salvation John 6:35

Under the New Covenant, our bodies become the temple of the Holy Spirit per 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 for why Jesus Christ is in us 2 Corinthians 13:5.

The apostle John drew the line of discernment regarding testing the spirits and any spirit felt outside of us or coming over us later in life as a saved believer, is not the Holy Spirit ( 1 John 4:1-4 ) and neither the tongue it brings that does not come with interpretation thus the supernatural tongue that the world speaks in as gibberish nonsense ( 1 John 4:5-6 ) for why many assume it is for private use when it is not of Him at all per Isaiah 8:19 & 1 Timothy 4:1 & 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
 

Bob Estey

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2021
4,819
2,563
113
71
Sparks, Nevada
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Bible presents a very broad general narrative many believe and have built varying beliefs systems around. Yet, the book is very ambiguous, at times contradictory, and downright confusing regarding numerous religious subjects that would appear to be of upmost importance. Such ambiguity appears to clearly demonstrate that the writings are the musings of men, however, many still attribute its contents to a deity figure. Why?!

Let me point out just a few of the issues of contention below:

1. The plan of salvation
- By grace thru faith alone (Romans 10:9-10)?
- Repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38)?
- is baptism immersion?
- is baptism simply sprinkling

2. The role of the church vs. Sola Scriptura

3. Should any part of the OT Law be kept? (Matthew 5:18)

4. Apostolic succession and the Papacy (Matthew 16:18)

5. Dispensationalism vs. Amillennialism vs. Preterism
- with each able to use scripture in some form or fashion to support what they promote

These are but a few internal issues a couple thousand years have not been able to provide clarify on and there are many others. Again, with such doubletalk and ambiguity, WHY Oh WHY would it not be obvious that human authorship is all over the pages. The Bible is just so..................... human
I will take up your points in order that you have laid them down.
1. The plan of salvation: Christians, hopefully, mature as they grow older and gain a better understanding of salvation. Only the most mature truly understand (or maybe none of us do). So most of what you hear will not be entirely correct. So basing an opinion on what you are hearing Christians say won't give YOU a clear understanding of salvation.
2. The role of the church vs. Sola Scriptura: What are you saying here? A conservative church might embrace "Sola Scripture," while a liberal church might hide their Bibles. Certainly the Bible can be trusted as a factual account of the events to which it witnesses. If God or Jesus are quoted in the Bible, you know God or Jesus really said those things.
3. Should any part of the OT Law be kept?: God was talking to the Jews. As Christians, we need to determine which laws pertain to us. A little common sense goes a long ways. If God said something is an abomination, it is an abomination.
4. Apostolic succession and the Papacy: Jesus is the boss. Go straight to him (prayer).
5. Dispensationalism vs. Amillennialism vs. Preterism: Keep it simple (Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself - Matthew 22:34-40). Don't get lost in isms.
 

Truth OT

Active Member
Oct 24, 2019
424
68
28
44
Cypress
Faith
Agnostic
Country
United States
I will take up your points in order that you have laid them down.
Thanks for chiming in Bob. The fact that there is contention within the Christian faith(s) bolsters my point that the Bible is very ambiguous, at times contradictory, and downright confusing regarding numerous religious subjects that would appear to be of upmost importance.
 

Truth OT

Active Member
Oct 24, 2019
424
68
28
44
Cypress
Faith
Agnostic
Country
United States
Jesus validated scripture as being of the truth.

This statement in no way legitimizes whether or not the Bible is a writing of supernatural construction as opposed to a work of men. The writers of the text CLAIMED Jesus did certain things and CLAIMED he said this. How does there claims verify these things actually occurred? A non-biased reliable outside source or various sources must be brought in to weight and measure what is written to give what is written true validity.
 

Christ4Me

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2022
1,344
263
83
60
Pennsylvania / Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This statement in no way legitimizes whether or not the Bible is a writing of supernatural construction as opposed to a work of men.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The writers of the text CLAIMED Jesus did certain things and CLAIMED he said this. How does there claims verify these things actually occurred? A non-biased reliable outside source or various sources must be brought in to weight and measure what is written to give what is written true validity.

And how do those non-biased reliable outside sources be validated? How can a believer validate anything? scripture explains how.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.... 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.